I'd like to shoot better video of my son's little league baseball games for purposes of uploading to youtube or vimeo. The native video files are fine but once I process it to a MPEG-4 file on Pinnacle 15, things start to pixelate/get shaky on any kind of movement that was shot. Then when uploading to youtube or vimeo, it's even worse -- I see lines anytime someone moves quickly. It's annoying.

I am currently using a 2009 Sony HD CX-100 and supposedly shooting in 1080 HD but then the output is supposed to be at 720p at 29 fps. In editing on Pinnacle, I use 720p, 29 or 30 fps and 5000 bit rate saved to an MPEG-4 file. Still does not come out silky smooth. Should I save it to a different kind of file? Is my camera too slow? I have no idea what it is.

Any help would be appreciated, video/cameraphiles.

Does that "GoPro Hero" count as a camcorder? I see their commercials all the time and some ads are outstanding in an X-Game, extreme sports sort of way.

Not a camera guy at all, though, just watch a lot of Sports and see their ads --


http://gopro.com/

Our Domicile;842022862 said:

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Does that "GoPro Hero" count as a camcorder? I see their commercials all the time and some ads are outstanding in an X-Game, extreme sports sort of way.

Not a camera guy at all, though, just watch a lot of Sports and see their ads --


http://gopro.com/

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Ya there is a Go Pro Hero 3 out there now. But it's not great for non-first person point of view shots, I believe. It's great to attach to car, helmet, etc. and for extreme sports but I think the video sensor itself is probably small, perhaps even worse than a regular digital camera. Also there really is no zoom to speak of either. I have one called Delkin Wingman and it's good for underwater shots and such.

seems like the editing software and picking formats makes a huge difference. My GoPro videos look like garbage compared to what they show on TV. It's always such a let down when you see reality... I'm so much more awesome in my head!

Would be very interested to hear from people w/ experience editing video on how to optimize video quality.

great product video for the GoPro Hero3 BTW

Canon and Nikon DSLR's are amazing for video too. Top notch HD video.

ars technica forums are also a great resource:

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=9c6981d2826cbe7501d6a9f89bda1638

It's probably worth looking around on the A/V forum to see if there's any existing threads that can help you

I use my iPad 3 and a tripod. There are cases you can buy which allow you to screw the iPad into a standard tripod mount. Works well for my purposes. I can send you a sample on YouTube if you PM me.

I wonder what kind of camera Coach Petersen uses . . .
Prob go with that one.

socaliganbear;842022914 said:

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I wonder what kind of camera Coach Petersen uses . . .
Prob go with that one.

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^^^ hahaha

WildBear;842022899 said:

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Canon and Nikon DSLR's are amazing for video too. Top notch HD video.

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Unbelievable picture quality.

:newnana:

socaliganbear;842022914 said:

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I wonder what kind of camera Coach Petersen uses . . .
Prob go with that one.

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LOL. As opposed to Hue Jackson or Sonny Dykes' videos? They probably use Go Pro Hero 2.

rathokan;842022900 said:

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ars technica forums are also a great resource:

http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=9c6981d2826cbe7501d6a9f89bda1638

It's probably worth looking around on the A/V forum to see if there's any existing threads that can help you

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Thanks I may try that forum. I think it's a post-production issue.

after comparing videos from the GoPro 2 and GoPro 3, I think my favorite comes from the 2. You decide.

GoPros are great, but they are specialized for POV stuff (wearable). They have a very wide field of view, lack of zoom, and no options to monitor what you are recording (since they are usually fixed on your head, bike, surfboard, etc.). I don't have a specific recommendation, but I would recommend against a GoPro for taping your sons sporting events (even though I think they are great for what they are designed for).

Make sure you get: optical zoom, something with a decent codec (you should see if you can get bandwidth numbers not just resolution and frame rate), good battery life, viewfinder that is view-able in sunlight. If you can manage it, shooting off a tripod is ideal.

-kap

another thing to consider is that your typical digital camcorder is much lighter and easier to use with one hand w/o a tripod than a DSLR taking video. I have a Nikon D7000, but taking video requires two hands and/or a good tripod. For quick video takes, it's much easier to use a handheld camcorder. The DSLR option is also quite a bit more expensive, but you can get great results if you're willing to invest in the glass.

rathokan;842023027 said:

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another thing to consider is that your typical digital camcorder is much lighter and easier to use with one hand w/o a tripod than a DSLR taking video. I have a Nikon D7000, but taking video requires two hands and/or a good tripod. For quick video takes, it's much easier to use a handheld camcorder. The DSLR option is also quite a bit more expensive, but you can get great results if you're willing to invest in the glass.

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Yah I was just thinking of collapsing all my interests and investing in a Canon 4ti soon. Don't tell my wife. But does it take good video compared to a camcorder?

rathokan;842023027 said:

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another thing to consider is that your typical digital camcorder is much lighter and easier to use with one hand w/o a tripod than a DSLR taking video. I have a Nikon D7000, but taking video requires two hands and/or a good tripod. For quick video takes, it's much easier to use a handheld camcorder. The DSLR option is also quite a bit more expensive, but you can get great results if you're willing to invest in the glass.

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I'm learning that the problem probably lies in the .mts format (Sony, Canon and Panny camcorders use that) that my Sony camera produces (AVCHD/H.264) as some editing software doesn't have mts output. I'm producing native .mts vidoes in mt2s which seems to be making the movements better but not 100% smooth. Getting there.

KoreAmBear;842023457 said:

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I'm learning that the problem probably lies in the .mts format (Sony, Canon and Panny camcorders use that) that my Sony camera produces (AVCHD/H.264) as some editing software doesn't have mts output. I'm producing native .mts vidoes in mt2s which seems to be making the movements better but not 100% smooth. Getting there.

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That video you showed me on Vimeo looked pretty bad, like really bad interlacing. I looked up motion tests with your camcorder on YouTube and the footage looked fine.

If you could get a chunk of raw video straight from the camera to me, I'd like to take a look at it. Take enough video to produce a 50-100 MB file and upload it to a file hosting service. Hold the camera still and record some slow and fast motion, and do some slow and fast panning.

KAB--go with the Canon 70D or whatever they call it when it comes out in a few months. I have the 60D and it's a great camera, a step up for the most part, from the t3/4, but also a bit more expensive at around 1k. Throw in another 300-500 for the lenses and it adds up fast. So depending on your budget, get the best glass and a good camera, so maybe t4 and nice lens.

Buy one less piece of glass ( hahaha - you'll see ). And get a much more flexible camera for the long term. Also, get a home equity loan.

:rollinglaugh:

The advantage of DSLRs is the interchangable lenses, and you'll probably want a fast lens for action sports. The disadvantage is that it (buying lenses) gets really expensive. IMO the GoPros are great for capturing first person action, not nearly as great for a distant observer.

Of the DSLR manufacturers, Panasonic might be the best for video (Specifically the GH2 model), and Nikon the worst. I have an expensive Nikon DSLR (with a half dozen expensive lenses) and a relatively cheap Panny (with two 4/3rd lenses) which I use as a second camera. Very happy with video from the Panny. Not a Canon user, but I have read that Panny is a much better value. 4/3rd lenses are also less expensive than D or F lenses, especially the long (zoom) ones.

Whatever you do, be sure to invest in a video tripod and turn off the anti-shake on your camera/lens, the easiest and cheapest ways to improve the quality of your video. It's my experience that the anti-shake algorithm creates motion blur effects which you are trying to avoid.

EDIT: If you are going to edit video (which you will want to do eventually), the motion JPEG format has given me the best results.

TouchedTheAxeIn82;842023458 said:

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That video you showed me on Vimeo looked pretty bad, like really bad interlacing. I looked up motion tests with your camcorder on YouTube and the footage looked fine.

If you could get a chunk of raw video straight from the camera to me, I'd like to take a look at it. Take enough video to produce a 50-100 MB file and upload it to a file hosting service. Hold the camera still and record some slow and fast motion, and do some slow and fast panning.

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OK I'll put it up on dropbox for you later. Thanks for offering. The MT2S solution has made it better since it's producing the video in the same essential format. I guess it is still encoding down but not as much as with MP4.

This is very accurate. I have used GoPros (professionally) and there are a lot of fun things you can do with them, time lapse, etc. But right, zooming in and seeing your kid isn't going to be for this camera.
A tripod is nice, but shooting without a tripod is easier than you think, especially relative to today's technology. Its nice to not be tied to the tripod...

KoreAmBear;842023457 said:

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I'm learning that the problem probably lies in the .mts format (Sony, Canon and Panny camcorders use that) that my Sony camera produces (AVCHD/H.264) as some editing software doesn't have mts output. I'm producing native .mts vidoes in mt2s which seems to be making the movements better but not 100% smooth. Getting there.

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You probably need a decent video encoder that will do a proper 3/2 pulldown on the mts file and output an mpeg. AVCHD is a wrapper layer, the video is encoded in H.264.

-kap

BMroom;842023532 said:

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Of the DSLR manufacturers, Panasonic might be the best for video (Specifically the GH2 model), and Nikon the worst.

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I own the GH1 from Panasonic and it meets my needs for both stills and video. The micro 4/3 system is a pretty good one with lots of lens choices at this point including several specifically designed for video. Also because of the short distance from the lens mount to the sensor there are lots of options for adapting legacy lenses and lenses from other systems. The only issue I have with GH1 is the bandwidth for the AVCHD codec is really slow so you have to be careful not to pan too quick when shooting video or you'll get a muddy scene. My understanding is this was improved for the GH2 and has been completely eliminated by a new high bandwidth codec in the new GH3 which is just starting to ship now.

-kap

kaplanfx;842023683 said:

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You probably need a decent video encoder that will do a proper 3/2 pulldown on the mts file and output an mpeg. AVCHD is a wrapper layer, the video is encoded in H.264.

-kap

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They expect laypersons to spend the time to learn all this? Good grief I bet all this stuff would fill out Tedford's play card. Thanks kaplanfx, I really appreciate it.

kaplanfx;842023690 said:

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I own the GH1 from Panasonic and it meets my needs for both stills and video. The micro 4/3 system is a pretty good one with lots of lens choices at this point including several specifically designed for video. Also because of the short distance from the lens mount to the sensor there are lots of options for adapting legacy lenses and lenses from other systems. The only issue I have with GH1 is the bandwidth for the AVCHD codec is really slow so you have to be careful not to pan too quick when shooting video or you'll get a muddy scene. My understanding is this was improved for the GH2 and has been completely eliminated by a new high bandwidth codec in the new GH3 which is just starting to ship now.

-kap

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I love that I can get a cheap 200mm 4/3 lens which will act like a 400mm on a full sensor. Long, fast Nikon lenses are too expensive for me at this point. Haven't tried using an adapter for my Nikon lenses (or with some older Leica and Zeiss lenses), but plan to do so when need arises.

Do you have an option for recording in motion JPEG? Always better to go as raw/lossless as possible, then optimize for file size after editing. I plan to get a GH3 once the price starts to drop.

mbBear;842023663 said:

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This is very accurate. I have used GoPros (professionally) and there are a lot of fun things you can do with them, time lapse, etc. But right, zooming in and seeing your kid isn't going to be for this camera.
A tripod is nice, but shooting without a tripod is easier than you think, especially relative to today's technology. Its nice to not be tied to the tripod...

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Tripods are a major pain in the ass.

I climbed a series of volcanoes (Rainier, St. Helens, and Three Sisters near Bend, Oregon) over the summer, and was quite concerned with the weight of my pack. Two cameras, lenses, filters, two liters of water, and a survival kit at minimum. I didn't bring the tripod for Rainier, and all my video and some of my stills were unusable.

Learned my lesson there -- always have a tripod for serious work. But it really depends on your standards for quality.

BMroom;842023747 said:

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I love that I can get a cheap 200mm 4/3 lens which will act like a 400mm on a full sensor. Long, fast Nikon lenses are too expensive for me at this point. Haven't tried using an adapter for my Nikon lenses (or with some older Leica and Zeiss lenses), but plan to do so when need arises.

Do you have an option for recording in motion JPEG? Always better to go as raw/lossless as possible, then optimize for file size after editing. I plan to get a GH3 once the price starts to drop.

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Yes there is mpjeg, but only 720p @ 60fps. It's has the advantage of being less compressed but the file sizes get big quickly. I've been shooting in 24fps AVCHD but it gets wrapped in a 60i wrapper. Apple (iMovie, Final Cut X) can handle the footage natively now, but other products often require you to convert the AVCHD to a pure H.264 in the correct framerate.

-kap