BeachyBear;842067517 said:

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Bullsh*t. That's all this "blah blah blah" here is. Total bullsh*t from a moron.

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Just a heads up, while I might have a little different view then you do, no need to call me a moron ;-). I grew up in a small town that was pretty sheltered. After high school I was put into a situation through sports in which I was around and then became friends with several guys that came from similar backgrounds to Ray Lewis. In the beginning it was somewhat of a shock to me to see how people can view the world in such a different way than I did but over time as I got to know the guys I understood that where and how they grew up had a big impact on who they were. I seem to be the only person on here giving Ray Lewis the benefit of the doubt; I do so partly because of my own life experiences. Don't get me wrong the guy was indicted for murder which is a pretty big mistake on his part and was later proven to be innocent, there is no excuse for killing another human being. I wasn't a big fan of him either for a lot of years and if he was guilty I wouldn't be writing this and would be wondering with everyone else why everyone talked about the guy so much. I did through some videos I posted see some very well respected men and one not so respected man (guess who) refute the negative public persona people seem to have with Ray Lewis, I don't think that he killed anyone, he did make some poor decisions in what led up to and after the incident which I equate to his background, friends at the time and the like, he also served time for those mistakes. Seeing the videos along with my own experiences with similar guys is what changed my opinion of him.

As for his need to give praise to god, I'm really not into that either as I'm not a very religious person and feel that religion is something that should be kept personal, I wish my aunt and uncle would understand that every time they make everyone say grace at a family function ;-)

And lastly as for me being a moron, yes I have been called a moron at times, mostly by myself ;-)

Ray Lewis was never "proven innocent" but rather he negotiated a plea which involved testifying against his buddies.

ducktilldeath;842067645 said:

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Why do people need to draw anyone to their faith to begin with?

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Duck - a fundamental belief of many Christians is what has come to be known as The Great Commission. The concept is addressed in different places in the Bible but is most commonly associated with Matthew 28:16-20. The basic concept is that Jesus called upon believers to spread his word, make disciples of others, etc. Many missionaries point to this scripture as the basis/ authority for their work.

There is some debate among historians and scholars as to the scope and duration of The Great Commission. Too complicated to discuss here but send me a private message if you want me to elaborate.

Lewis is perhaps the dirtiest player in pro football. Ed Reed is right up there with him. I may not even watch the SB and I'm a long time 49er fan. I'm changing, I think.

SFBear2012;842066385 said:

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That was before he found salvation, he's a servant of god now. I actually find him extremely annoying and looking forward to seeing him cry after losing to SF in a couple weeks.

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Lol... yeah I can't wait to see the tears flow.

He also looks quite ridiculous in his English tea party outfit after games. The worst part was hearing about Peyton Manning making his wife hang around an empty locker room for hours waiting for Ray Lewis to come back so that he could get his autograph.

ducktilldeath;842067645 said:

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Why do people need to draw anyone to their faith to begin with?

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Misery loves company.

manus;842068123 said:

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Misery loves company.

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Hahaha, that's #3 on the pro argument list for same sex marriage...everyone should be free to feel the same pain and misery. Equity all the way around!

slotright20;842067724 said:

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Duck - a fundamental belief of many Christians is what has come to be known as The Great Commission. The concept is addressed in different places in the Bible but is most commonly associated with Matthew 28:16-20. The basic concept is that Jesus called upon believers to spread his word, make disciples of others, etc. Many missionaries point to this scripture as the basis/ authority for their work.

There is some debate among historians and scholars as to the scope and duration of The Great Commission. Too complicated to discuss here but send me a private message if you want me to elaborate.

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It's a trap!

CAL6371;842067415 said:

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What does this have to do with prejudice? Lewis is a thug and deserves contempt. Tebow, although too pious for my taste, is a fine young man. Who cares about the race of wither one of them.

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Huh? I never said this had anything to do with race. The poster that I quoted seems to have such a bias against Tebow due to the fact that he prays in public that the poster has more of a problem with Tebow than the poster would have with RL even if RL actually killed someone.

SNL does Ray Lewis: http://www.hulu.com/watch/450058

I really don't care to know anything about athletes. Murderers or saints

slotright20;842067724 said:

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Duck - a fundamental belief of many Christians is what has come to be known as The Great Commission. The concept is addressed in different places in the Bible but is most commonly associated with Matthew 28:16-20. The basic concept is that Jesus called upon believers to spread his word, make disciples of others, etc. Many missionaries point to this scripture as the basis/ authority for their work.

There is some debate among historians and scholars as to the scope and duration of The Great Commission. Too complicated to discuss here but send me a private message if you want me to elaborate.

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that makes sense. a religion without a proselytization component is like a virus that has no means of transmission -- it'll die out before it ever gets going.

I had the same opinion as most others in this string. In fact the last few games, with the praying, and over the top religious emotions, I decided to try and get an understanding of what happened that night in 2000. Just to confirm my feeling about double standards in sports, and how athletes get away with just about anything.
I didn't do a lot of research, just went to Wiki. What I found left me a little more considerate, and not so ready to comdemn him. I saw this video, and it makes me wonder even more.
What wiki says, is there was a fight at a party, two of his friends were involved, and Lewis tried to break it up, some one pulled a knife, there was a lot of confusion, people died. Lewis initially lied to police about who (his friends), were involved.
That's the obstruction of justice. His plea was about identifying his two friends, who were involved in the altercation. Lewis wasn't charged with murder. I'm not sure if he was a suspect. But his friends were implicated. They did not pull the knife, one of those killed did. They were indicted, pled self defense, and were acquited. Baltimore's a gritty place, if you're black, and charged, there's a good possibility, your guilty. Even if you're not. That's just the way it is. Maybe I was to quick too judge.

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2013/01/while-ray-lewis-heads-to-the-super-bowl-a-mother-grieves.html

Quote:

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Lewis and two members of his entourage, Reginald Oakley and Joseph Sweeting, were charged with double-murder.

Baker's blood was found in Lewis' $3,000-a-day limousine. The suit Lewis was wearing that night never has been found. Witnesses reportedly said they saw Lewis at least throw a punch in the melee and then coached everyone in the limo to stay quiet. The witnesses later altered their testimonies.

As the trial unraveled on the prosecution's case, Lewis was offered a deal. He pleaded guilty to the misdemeanor in exchange for testifying against Oakley and Sweeting. Lewis was unconvincing, and both suspects were acquitted.

Nobody was convicted of killing Richard Lollar or Jacinth Baker.

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bearister;842067676 said:

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Ray Lewis was never "proven innocent" but rather he negotiated a plea which involved testifying against his buddies.

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Same thing Sean Combs did which put the rapper Shyne in jail.

JerseyBear;842070491 said:

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I had the same opinion as most others in this string. In fact the last few games, with the praying, and over the top religious emotions, I decided to try and get an understanding of what happened that night in 2000. Just to confirm my feeling about double standards in sports, and how athletes get away with just about anything.
I didn't do a lot of research, just went to Wiki. What I found left me a little more considerate, and not so ready to comdemn him. I saw this video, and it makes me wonder even more.
What wiki says, is there was a fight at a party, two of his friends were involved, and Lewis tried to break it up, some one pulled a knife, there was a lot of confusion, people died. Lewis initially lied to police about who (his friends), were involved.
That's the obstruction of justice. His plea was about identifying his two friends, who were involved in the altercation. Lewis wasn't charged with murder. I'm not sure if he was a suspect. But his friends were implicated. They did not pull the knife, one of those killed did. They were indicted, pled self defense, and were acquited. Baltimore's a gritty place, if you're black, and charged, there's a good possibility, your guilty. Even if you're not. That's just the way it is. Maybe I was to quick too judge.

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This telling isn't quite true, as I understand it -- there are some good sources if you dig a little, like accounts from the Baltimore papers that covered the trial. (Wikipedia is a fine source but I think is too thin on this topic.) His friends did bring the knife or knives; I believe Lewis testified that they'd shown him the knives the previous day or that he was at the store when they bought them. The friends were acquitted only because no one was able or willing to say they'd seen the actual knifing in the dark, but it's pretty much accepted that they killed the guys. Lewis was charged with obstruction because he coordinated a story in the limo and hid them out overnight. The suit he was wearing was never found; he apparently ditched it because of the blood stains. (Edit: Here's the USA Today recently

Quote:

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Lewis never directly linked his two friends to the killings, and they were acquitted. Lewis had testified that Oakley, Sweeting and another man had gone to a sporting goods store the previous day to buy knives. Baker's blood later was found in Lewis' limo. Having fled the crime scene, Lewis told the limo's passengers to "keep their mouths shut." The white suit Lewis was wearing that night — on Super Bowl Sunday — never was found.

"I'm not trying to end my career like this," Lewis said in his hotel that night, according to the testimony of a female passenger in the limo.

He didn't. For his punishment, Lewis received one year of probation and a $250,000 fine by the NFL.

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I'm like you, I think it's good to dig into a topic a bit when there are competing stories; I don't call Lewis a murderer because he didn't kill anyone. What continues to gall me though is how Lewis exposes the NFL hype machine for the joke that it is. They market him as a leader because he fits the bill in their narrow little box -- he's a great player, he puts on face paint, he jumps around and screams "YEAH MOTHERF*CKER WE GOT THIS" when his fellow multimillionaires could use a little encouragement to do their jobs. But when the opportunity to show actual leadership arose -- the tough part, the part where you push back against your friends or to do the right thing in the aftermath -- he showed that he's just an average schlump like most everyone else.

Character is something you demonstrate when people aren't looking. If I were in Lewis's place I would probably have done the same thing, but you won't find anyone on TV on Sundays gushing about my leadership abilities. Thankfully, come February 4th we won't have to hear that about Lewis anymore either.

Lewis obviously called Levi from a burner when he was in the limo and got specific instructions on what to get everyone to say and how to dispose of his blood stained suit in one of vacants.

SoCalBear323;842070582 said:

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Lewis obviously called Levi from a burner when he was in the limo and got specific instructions on what to get everyone to say and how to dispose of his blood stained suit in one of vacants.

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Good work McNulty.

likwid1;842070584 said:

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Good work McNulty.

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Haha. McNulty and Don Draper are my idols.

You obviously don't watch football, or are incredibly biased when you do. They are no more dirty then most linebackers and safeties.
Their teammate (forget his name, who injures a million Patriots) is a another story.

I think Lewis hung around with a bad crowd when he was young, and something happened that was bad, and isn't super clear still what if anything he was guilty of. Regardless, that was a long time ago. He's also one of the best players ever, and has eternal respect from the likes of Peyton Manning. I don't blame people for not enjoying the self-promotional aspect of his antics, but that's not exactly a crime.

Honestly the small minded petty nature of this thread is pretty disgusting. What do any of you actually know about this guy? Other than that he wears Jesus a little too far on his sleeve (like seemingly half the NFL), he's a great player, and an associate or associates of his murdered somebody over a decade ago.

saltybear;842070599 said:

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honestly the small minded petty nature of this thread is pretty disgusting. What do any of you actually know about this guy? Other than that he wears jesus a little too far on his sleeve (like seemingly half the nfl), he's a great player, and while Lewis watched an old friend and an acquaintance of his murdered two guys over a decade ago and he pled guilty to obstruction for trying to cover up their and his involvement in the murders.

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fify.

Lets just say that if I were the Almighty Creator, and there was a Heaven and a Hell, then I'd be sure to send this guy to the latter place without needing to know any further details. If there is anyone who is in it all for the money, and doesn't actually care about doing the wrong thing (advising and working to keep anyone who can afford the retainer and hourly fees out of jail, even if they're obviously guilty) then its lawyers like Ed Garland who intentionally teach their clients how to lie, and what to say and not say so that everything is obscured enough that no fair and objective trial can even take place.

With respect to Ray Lewis, I'd want to look at his life, (and being the creator) I'd want to look at his true thoughts and feelings, and gauge how sincere his motivations were in life. Was it all for show and a total ruse? Or did his charitable work stem from a true desire to be the best man he could be? That's what I would find out.

Then I would make the skies over Stanford perpetually grey, with low overhanging fog that never goes away.

saltybear;842070599 said:

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You obviously don't watch football, or are incredibly biased when you do. They are no more dirty then most linebackers and safeties.
Their teammate (forget his name, who injures a million Patriots) is a another story.

I think Lewis hung around with a bad crowd when he was young, and something happened that was bad, and isn't super clear still what if anything he was guilty of. Regardless, that was a long time ago. He's also one of the best players ever, and has eternal respect from the likes of Peyton Manning. I don't blame people for not enjoying the self-promotional aspect of his antics, but that's not exactly a crime.

Honestly the small minded petty nature of this thread is pretty disgusting. What do any of you actually know about this guy? Other than that he wears Jesus a little too far on his sleeve (like seemingly half the NFL), he's a great player, and an associate or associates of his murdered somebody over a decade ago.

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And has 6 children by 4 different women

bearister;842066593 said:

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"The white suit Lewis was wearing the night of the killings has never been found. Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard alleged the blood-stained suit was dumped in a garbage bin outside a fast food restaurant."*


Many years ago an e-mailer on the Rome show referred to Rae Carruth and Ray Lewis as "Raenthal and Lewisnthal".. was hilarious.

Lewisnthal should be behind bars too.



Rae Carruth [3] , is a former American football wide receiver in the NFL for the Carolina Panthers. In 2001, he was found guilty of conspiring to murder the woman who at the time was carrying his child and is serving a prison sentence with an expected release date of 2018.[4]

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