GranadaHillsBear;842090843 said:

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:bravo Berkeley needs to eminent domain (yeah, I made it a verb) that slumlord's empty properties on Telegraph for the good of society.

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Well, there's this....
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/01/31/berkeley-files-suit-against-owner-of-blighted-telegraph-lot/

Quote:

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The city of Berkeley has filed a lawsuit against Ken Sarachan, telling him they intend to seize his lot at the intersection of Telegraph and Haste to pay off the $640,000 he owes in liens and interest.

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beelzebear;842090563 said:

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Westwood looked pretty dead the past couple of times I've been there. It's shiny and nice but there were no students. I think they're suffering from the same things - music you get from the interwebz, same with books. The only ethnic food I recall was Noodle World but I wasn't really looking.

Maybe someone in SoCal can say what's going on near UCLA.

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This poses an interesting question. What businesses can thrive just based on student customers? You can only have so many cheap eats, barbers, cafes and t-shirt stores.

University Ave near 'fund is kind of the opposite. IMO, it caters too much too professionals. At least it's clean and has nice restaurants.

The surrounding area has a number of businesses, including very successful Internet ones.

As we all know, Berkeley is world class university. But no company of any decent size wants to setup shop there. No companies, no tax revenue, no professionals patronizing local businesses, no money.

Berkeley is so far from being Manhattanized it's not even funny.

Trying to transform Telegraph to The Grove or The Americana makes me sick. Seriously, Century City? Omg... Come on guys. We are special. Just my humble opinion...

beelzebear;842090465 said:

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This actually raises a good question: what do students do on Telegraph these days besides getting some non-dorm food?

Music can be obtained off the interwebz, so no real need for record stores. Books you get from the same place.

Is it left to head shops and hair cuts?

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You're right, god damnit I hate it, but you're right. I think. Amoeba is hanging on by its fingernails at the moment, and their epic struggle with Rasputin will be interesting. Record stores have their place now, but not in the way they used to. Personally, I hope Amoeba wins, but given the fact that they're the only business on their corner now, I don't hold out much hope.

Anyway, I agree with Operbear above that it's a weird offshoot of Peoples' Park that is a problem. I don't agree that Oakland gangbangers congregate there. I live in Oakland, and the gangbangers aren't going to waste their time going to a dead area. It's actually a pretty long drive for no particular reason.

But anyway, it's a perpetual problem, and the huge fire recently screwed it up even more. I'm friends with a guy who works at Amoeba, and recently some Telegraph kid asked him for a cigarette. He said he didn't have one, and the response was "**** you, asshole". Multiply this by hundreds, add tons of urine, and rats in vacant lots, and there's your problem. The resulting empty storefronts reinforce it.

In the 80s, when I was at Cal, Peoples' Park was Peoples' Park, Telegraph was viable (pre-internet), and the two didn't intersect so damn much. But now it's just taken over the entire area. Peoples' Park needs to go, just as a start to solving the problem.

And the idea of a bunch of chain stores in South Berkeley is just gross. But one of them in conjunction with a bunch of cool restaurants might work.

Could the people be part of the problem?

Please.

TiredBear;842090869 said:

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Trying to transform Telegraph to The Grove or The Americana makes me sick. Seriously, Century City? Omg... Come on guys. We are special. Just my humble opinion...

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Might want to read what I actually said when I mentioned those places....

(I know, I know. That's so 2007. Nobody has the attention span anymore to do anything more than read the heading and skim the first sentence! Sorry.)

:Monty

:cheer:Monty

TiredBear;842090869 said:

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Trying to transform Telegraph to The Grove or The Americana makes me sick. Seriously, Century City? Omg... Come on guys. We are special. Just my humble opinion...

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+1

510Bear;842090939 said:

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Might want to read what I actually said when I mentioned those places....

(I know, I know. That's so 2007. Nobody has the attention span anymore to do anything more than read the heading and skim the first sentence! Sorry.)

:Monty

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You're totally right. I apologize.

TiredBear;842091012 said:

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You're totally right. I apologize.

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Fair enough. My rant above wasn't directed at you.

For the record, I'm definitely no fan of Century City and its pretentiousness, the Americana and the hordes of Kardashian clones in tacky Juicy Couture gear who roam there, and the Grove and its fake snow.

510Bear;842091020 said:

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Fair enough. My rant above wasn't directed at you.

For the record, I'm definitely no fan of Century City and its pretentiousness, the Americana and the hordes of Kardashian clones in tacky Juicy Couture gear who roam there, and the Grove and its fake snow.

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Hahaha and now Mario Lopez. Ugh!!!

510Bear;842090652 said:

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Oh, great. Berkeley will now have a CVS on Shattuck/Vine, Shattuck/Bancroft, and Telegraph/Derby, and a Walgreens on Shattuck/Oregon, Shattuck/Addison, Shattuck/Cedar, and Bancroft/Telegraph.

Ridiculous glut of chain drugstores (7 of them in a 2 square-mile area), probably because they're the only thing that can get through the COB's F'd gauntlet for new businesses.

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Why are you surprised.....everyone knows Berkeley for Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n Roll.........OK, maybe just drugs.

Which leads me to this burning question.....
How can one have a drug store in a "Drug Free Zone?"

In a couple of centuries, instead of the faux splendor of The Grove, there will be the faux funk and grunge of "The Telegraph" complete with hippies, street people and the occasional nekkid people. It will feature not-so-free love, drugs and cheap/ethnic food.

beelzebear;842091033 said:

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In a couple of centuries, instead of the faux splendor of The Grove, there will be the faux funk and grunge of "The Telegraph" complete with hippies, street people and the occasional nekkid people. It will feature not-so-free love, drugs and cheap/ethnic food.

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Why wait? Maybe the guy who developed the Americana & the Grove could build "The Telegraph" somewhere in west L.A. - an artificial replica of the dumpy Telegraph environment. Stores would be the same overpriced boutiques and chain stores you see all over L.A., but the "food court" would be a replica of the Asian food ghetto, plus La Burrata and - wait for it - Top Dog.

All you need are a few celebs being sighted there - as in "TMZ caught up with Jennifer Lawrence out shopping at The Telegraph" - and it'll become the new hotspot (as happened with the Grove)

I declare myself CEO of this new venture. Okaydo can be in charge of social media strategy.

beelzebear;842091033 said:

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In a couple of centuries, instead of the faux splendor of The Grove, there will be the faux funk and grunge of "The Telegraph" complete with hippies, street people and the occasional nekkid people. It will feature not-so-free love, drugs and cheap/ethnic food.

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It sucks that I totally missed out on The Grove experience. (I've only been there twice.)

I went to high school 2 blocks from The Grove in the 90s, when it was empty land being developed.

I played little league baseball and had my 8th and 10th birthday parties in the park next to The Grove.

But alas, I never got to experience The Grove as a mall-hanging out teenager.

510Bear;842091020 said:

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Fair enough. My rant above wasn't directed at you.

the Americana and the hordes of Kardashian clones in tacky Juicy Couture gear who roam there...

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that's probably the only redeeming value of the place. So many Armenians in Glendale. The dudes are kinda rude though, IMHO...

Whether Bates is pro or anti-growth, left or right, matters not a whit. There can be no forgiveness for his actions on the CMS renovations. If he came out as pro-orgasm I'd oppose him. He and the Toshtitute deserve their own special circle of Hell.

okaydo;842091236 said:

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It sucks that I totally missed out on The Grove experience. (I've only been there twice.)

I went to high school 2 blocks from The Grove in the 90s, when it was empty land being developed.

I played little league baseball and had my 8th and 10th birthday parties in the park next to The Grove.

But alas, I never got to experience The Grove as a mall-hanging out teenager.

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Fairfax High, eh? One of the most diverse schools in the country...

I've only been there visiting my family and my buddy worked in the new building next to CBS and with my family while visiting in LA. Use to go to Farmer's Market when it was still a dump. I remember part of that lot as big parking lot and the odd ball shops. I still like FM, have nice goofing off memories there. Frankly The Grove freaks me out...but I could see it would be great as a schooler near by.

510Bear;842091040 said:

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Why wait? Maybe the guy who developed the Americana & the Grove could build "The Telegraph" somewhere in west L.A. - an artificial replica of the dumpy Telegraph environment. Stores would be the same overpriced boutiques and chain stores you see all over L.A., but the "food court" would be a replica of the Asian food ghetto, plus La Burrata and - wait for it - Top Dog.

All you need are a few celebs being sighted there - as in "TMZ caught up with Jennifer Lawrence out shopping at The Telegraph" - and it'll become the new hotspot (as happened with the Grove)

I declare myself CEO of this new venture. Okaydo can be in charge of social media strategy.

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Comp me a Top Dog (or faux) and you own the rights!

Sebastabear;842091253 said:

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Whether Bates is pro or anti-growth, left or right, matters not a whit. There can be now forgiveness for his actions on the CMS renovations. If he came out as pro-orgasm I'd oppose him. He and the Toshtitute deserve their own special circle of Hell.

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... along with Bob Bockrath.

Great post - totally agree

freshfunk;842090129 said:

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This. As unsympathetic as it sounds, getting rid of the homeless / street people, turning People's Park into a real park and not a campground for the homeless, cleaning the streets and making it safe would make a huge difference.

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I agree 100%, but so little actually changes in Berkeley. Contrast it with Emeryville, which was an armpit back in the early-mid 80s, and has been completely transformed in the intervening years.

I realize this will never happen, but here is what I'd suggest:

a) Build a huge multi level parking garage on the current people's park site.
b) Turn Haste, Channing, Durant, Telegraph, and Bowditch into pedestrian walking mall between a rectangle of Dwight/Dana/Bancroft/College.
c) Build luridly lit pedestrian underpasses under Bancroft so pedestrians can cross onto campus withut consantly stopping traffic.

What I've seen work in other cities is building one-stop-shopping centers for the homeless away from where you don't want them. Often, these are public-private partnerships that give them access to food, shelter, and direction toward social services. In a perfect world, I'd like that built in Panoramic Hills to show my appreciation for their help with the stadium. Ideally, you'd want it down near Gilman/580; realistically, I have no idea where you'd put it, given the various hallenges with real estate costs, etc. Even if you moved the homeless, they will still gravitate to Southside because they know the students are soft hearted and are always good for a few bucks.

The reason I'm against 2-way traffic: students wanter into the streets at will in Berkeley. There will be more pedestrian accidents if students have to look both ways. I'd love enclosed, elevated walk-ways connecting buildings and leading to campus like you see in the snowy midwest (downtown Des Moines, as well as Kansas City near the Crown Center), but we're back to homeless magnet.

-

Quote:

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Eliminating quotas on restaurants, fast food, and chain stores.

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If this means what I think - [U]Love this, Love this, Love this, Love this![/U] Would a SuperTarget or (Heaven Forbid) a Wal Mart help stretch tight student dollars? [U]Yes it would.[/U] (A mini-Costco would be even better). Probably just me, but I'd like to see McDs, BK, Taco Bell, Five Guys, Carls Jr. and the rest of the gang closer to campus. Maybe even (again, Heaven Forbid) Chili's, Applebee''s, or TGI Fridays.

perhaps the mayor should get rid of the folks that stop new businesses from opening up:

http://www.facebook.com/HeatHotSauceShop/posts/457316231008242

beelzebear;842091272 said:

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Comp me a Top Dog (or faux) and you own the rights!

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Haha. We'll split the rights. I could never claim this entirely for myself when the whole idea was inspired by your post. Since Berkeley is firmly in the grasp of Bates & co., might as well take over L.A. instead.

Edited to add: That "Heat Hot Sauce Shop" story made me mad. Someone please tell me Bates and his cabal will die off and things will eventually change in Berkeley. It has to, right? Right??

Looks like some changes are happening soonish. The city is stringing lights above Telegraph. So it might fool you into thinking it's charming for a good half block.


I see wat you did there COB . .

socaliganbear;842091919 said:

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Looks like some changes are happening soonish. The city is stringing lights above Telegraph. So it might fool you into thinking it's charming for a good half block.


I see wat you did there COB . .

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The lights are to celebrate the anniversary of Hezbollah's founding.

socaliganbear;842091919 said:

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Looks like some changes are happening soonish. The city is stringing lights above Telegraph. So it might fool you into thinking it's charming for a good half block.


I see wat you did there COB . .

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Those lights will only further reveal that there are piles of human feces on Telegraph. (Yeah, for serious. If you walk down the wrong side of the street, you'll see it.)

I have no idea how any restaurants at all operate on that street these days. There's so much **** going on there that will KILL most people's appetites.

In my imaginary world, Gov. Brown attends a Berkeley city council meeting and then taps Bates on the shoulder, and says, "OK. You? Are officially relieved of your command. I'm invoking little-known rule 99472-A, which says if a city government is unfit to govern, control goes to the state."

Nothing will change in Berkeley until the elitist anti establishment hippies die off. Nothing. Just be glad the school is controlled by the state and not subject to the whims of the tyrannical Berkeley city council. The renovation of Memorial Stadium was huge. That whole oak grove fiasco was ridiculous! Anciant oak grove?! Omg it was less than a couple dozen oak trees, none of which were ancient. What a freaking joke...

510Bear;842091961 said:

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Those lights will only further reveal that there are piles of human feces on Telegraph. (Yeah, for serious. If you walk down the wrong side of the street, you'll see it.)"

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Pretty much, my first thought was, dear god, now you'll see the decay at all hours. At least they're trying? :hammer:

TiredBear;842091978 said:

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Nothing will change in Berkeley until the elitist anti establishment hippies die off. Nothing. Just be glad the school is controlled by the state and not subject to the whims of the tyrannical Berkeley city council. The renovation of Memorial Stadium was huge. That whole oak grove fiasco was ridiculous! Anciant oak grove?! Omg it was less than a couple dozen oak trees, none of which were ancient. What a freaking joke...

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You forget the "ancient Native American burial ground" scam.
There must have been at least one Native American who was burried on or near the site of CMS in the past 20,000-30,000 years*.

(*n.b. per the newest dating information for the presence of pre-Clovis humans in North America)

socaliganbear;842091993 said:

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Pretty much, my first thought was, dear god, now you'll see the decay at all hours. At least they're trying? :hammer:

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Well, hey, at least if it prevents anyone from stepping in it, the COB performed a valuable public service. You go, COB!

GivemTheAxe;842091994 said:

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You forget the "ancient Native American burial ground" scam.
There must have been at least one Native American who was burried on or near the site of CMS in the past 20,000-30,000 years*.

(*n.b. per the newest dating information for the presence of pre-Clovis humans in North America)

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Ah yes, good point. Ironically, it has since been discovered that the houses of the Panoramic Hill Association all lie ontop of native burial grounds. Moreover, its founding members knew of this and spent large sums of money to cover it up, both literally and figuratively. This is what I have been told by an annonamous source. Sickening, is it not?

Good goal, wrong approach. The problem isn't access it is that the area is a dump and uninviting. Deal with the lack of cleanliness, panhandlers, people's park mess, unused lot, etc., and consumers and businesses will want to be there.

TiredBear;842092005 said:

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Ah yes, good point. Ironically, it has since been discovered that the houses of the Panoramic Hill Association all lie ontop of native burial grounds. Moreover, its founding members knew of this and spent large sums of money to cover it up, both literally and figuratively. This is what I have been told by an annonamous source. Sickening, is it not?

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Well we knew Memorial and Memorial Glade was not a "burial ground"--nowhere did people bury their dead at the bottom of a canyon or next to a stream so that their bodies/bones would be exposed in the next Winter rain. People are almost always buried on high ground, preferably with a view, often to the West (where in many cultures the dead were believed to go--following the setting sun). Panoramic Hill does seem like a likely location for the Ohlone peoples who lived along Strawberry Creek to bury their dead.

The Ohlone who lived along the Bay buried their dead in huge shell mounds created from the discarded shells of clams, oysters and mussels eaten daily over thousands of years. Here is an article on the Emeryville shellmound, but there were similar ones in Berkeley: LINK