We thought it would be magic and win games...

3,200 Views | 28 Replies | Last: 13 yr ago by heartofthebear
drizzlybears brother
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I lifted this quote by Washington State safety Deone Bucannon from Kevin Gemmell's post to the ESPN blog.

Quote:

"I think we were blinded by how much success he's had in the past and we just assumed we would automatically win games because it's Coach Leach and he has a great system," Bucannon said. "But it's up to us to work that system. Football isn't about systems. It's about players and how much effort they put into it. The system complements the players. We can't put the system first. We thought it would be magic and we'd win games. But we have to put in the work."




I have to say I've found myself falling victim to a similar assumption. As it pertains to Cal, I think a couple of things are in play, one being the opportunity a new system provides, but perhaps too a liberation from a system that had become burdensome.
pingpong2
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^^
+1. WSU has no where near the talent level that Cal does, even though this is one of our weaker years as we'll be rebuilding our o-line, breaking in a new QB and RB, and will be playing pretty much all underclassmen at the receiver positions. IMO this is truly a rebuilding year, not like the Tedford ones.
Davidson
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plus, dykes has repeatedly said that their level success is entirely dependent on the level of "buy in" from the players.
pingpong2
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Davidson;842103328 said:

plus, dykes has repeatedly said that their level success is entirely dependent on the level of "buy in" from the players.


Since most of the players are still young, my thought is that they'll be more likely to adopt the new system rather than older players, esp since most of them have experienced a ton of blowouts under the old system.
Davidson
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i think the lack of transfers is one indication of buy in.

also, the interviews are quite telling.

kline has said things like, "goff is lucky to come at a time with such a great system/playbook"..."i'm not like we weren't trying hard before, but things just weren't clicking before, you know?"..."we can just go out and play now"
drizzlybears brother
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pingpong2;842103327 said:

^^
+1. WSU has no where near the talent level that Cal does, even though this is one of our weaker years as we'll be rebuilding our o-line, breaking in a new QB and RB, and will be playing pretty much all underclassmen at the receiver positions. IMO this is truly a rebuilding year, not like the Tedford ones.


I'm not comparing the Bears to Wazzu, I'm saying that for those of us who are getting excited about what the new staff has to offer, it's a reminder that the scheme alone isn't going to do it.
Davidson
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i dont think anyone thought scheme alone would do it.

we all looked at our roster and said, "damnit, this doesn't look like 3-9".
drizzlybears brother
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Davidson;842103384 said:

i dont think anyone thought scheme alone would do it.

we all looked at our roster and said, "damnit, this doesn't look like 3-9".


Sounds like you missed the point.
RealDrew2
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I think the point is you can win with all sorts of systems if you have good players. You can also do a bad coach coaching all sorts of systems. I personally don't think the system is the real issue, just that the program needed a reboot after the last three years, and perhaps more mental toughness. Also needed a re-commitment to academics.
elpbear
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RealDrew2;842103394 said:

I think the point is you can win with all sorts of systems if you have good players. You can also do a bad coach coaching all sorts of systems. I personally don't think the system is the real issue, just that the program needed a reboot after the last three years, and perhaps more mental toughness. Also needed a re-commitment to academics.


Well said.
Big C
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drizzlybears brother;842103387 said:

Sounds like you missed the point.


I, for one, got the point and it is a good one, one that I find myself falling into (of course, as I am a fan, who cares?). Even "buy in" isn't sufficient and could, in fact, imply too MUCH confidence in the system.

The other point, that we have more talent on the roster than WSU... and that a "system" can't turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, is also valid.
gobears725
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RealDrew2;842103394 said:

I think the point is you can win with all sorts of systems if you have good players. You can also do a bad coach coaching all sorts of systems. I personally don't think the system is the real issue, just that the program needed a reboot after the last three years, and perhaps more mental toughness. Also needed a re-commitment to academics.


the problem with the past is exactly that. tedford didnt have one system, he had mulitple, so his teams lacked identity. his early teams were not like that. i think his teams lacked discipline at the end. its not a matter of which system but you need to choose one and not overcomplicate it, so it isnt a matter of a magic system. bama runs a proset to the tune of 2 straight NCs, oregon runs a spread and dominates. both sides of the spectrum but there isnt an identity issue. the teams know what they are, and they play THEIR game.
SonOfCalVa
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Big C_Cal;842103402 said:

I, for one, got the point and it is a good one, one that I find myself falling into (of course, as I am a fan, who cares?). Even "buy in" isn't sufficient and could, in fact, imply too MUCH confidence in the system.

The other point, that we have more talent on the roster than WSU... and that a "system" can't turn a silk purse into a sow's ear, is also valid.


Franklin, in his recent video, again defined "buying in" as the players not fighting the coaches, the new concepts.
How can "buying in", working to succeed and learn the new system, lead to "too MUCH confidence" as, to a man, O and D, the players all acknowledge that they like the new system but have a lot of work left to do.

Trying to imagine a Cal team, THIS Cal team, with "too MUCH confidence" ... :p

:gobears:
68great
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ducktilldeath;842103324 said:

CAL actually has high level D1 talent which was being grossly mismanaged. That's why you're excited. Leach is trying to **** out a dumpster fire.


I agree. IMO Cal has a lot of talent (RB's, WR's, Defense) there were two big problems: the QB and the head coach.

The QB kept turning over the ball at inopportune times and killing drives with bad passes and lost the support of the rest of the team.
The coach did not see the problem with the QB (since he wanted to prove that he could spin straw into gold) and lost his way by mixing one offensive strategy with another with another and he lost the team by the way he gave preferential treatment to ZM and maybe others.

Personally I thought that even with JT Cal would be better in 2013 than 2012 (maybe 5-7 or 6-6) just because we would probably have a QB better than ZM. But we still had a problem with the Coach.

Now I believe Cal will be much better in 2013 than in 2012. Maybe 7-5, maybe 8-4, maybe 9-3.
gobears725
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68great;842103526 said:

I agree. IMO Cal has a lot of talent (RB's, WR's, Defense) there were two big problems: the QB and the head coach.

The QB kept turning over the ball at inopportune times and killing drives with bad passes and lost the support of the rest of the team.
The coach did not see the problem with the QB (since he wanted to prove that he could spin straw into gold) and lost his way by mixing one offensive strategy with another with another and he lost the team by the way he gave preferential treatment to ZM and maybe others.

Personally I thought that even with JT Cal would be better in 2013 than 2012 (maybe 5-7 or 6-6) just because we would probably have a QB better than ZM. But we still had a problem with the Coach.

Now I believe Cal will be much better in 2013 than in 2012. Maybe 7-5, maybe 8-4, maybe 9-3.



I have a feeling that the QB position was mismanaged as well, from a development standpoint which most have pointed out, but from who actually got the playing time. I would have much rather saw a bridgford or hinder in place of maynard. the problem with maynard is that although fairly athletic, he had no instincts at all for the position. that was something that was obvious early on with him and there was a ceiling to how good he could ever be because of that. i think bridg and hinder had a lot of more potential
SonOfCalVa
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[COLOR="Blue"]NEWS FLASH[/COLOR]
JT and ZM are gone
mechaniCAL
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SonOfCalVa;842103545 said:

[COLOR="Blue"]NEWS FLASH[/COLOR]
JT and ZM are gone


Thank you! Time to move along
72CalBear
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SonOfCalVa;842103545 said:

[COLOR="Blue"]NEWS FLASH[/COLOR]
JT and ZM are gone


So is Holmoe..Ayoob..etc.etc.etc
biely medved
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ducktilldeath;842103483 said:

This is so important ESPECIALLY in college. These aren't 24/7 365 pro athletes. You can't practice but 1/3 of the year. Most of these players are also full time students. You only have 9 coaches(unless you're Alabama).

It's not the ground and pound at Stanford or the spread option at Oregon which makes those programs successful, it is the culture of buying in and establishing an identity...and then damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.


Hatters gotta hat. Even ducks apparently. Seriously? You have all the keys to success in football- just do 1,2&3... Oh except Bama- they just cheat. Their players didn't have to buy in bc they cheat. They didn't work hard, they just cheated. The reason they squashed ND was b/c they over signed in recruiting. Grow up people. I guess Auburn cheated and LSU cheated and Stanford cheated, but duck sh!t smells fresh as a mountain spring.
82gradDLSdad
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is because one of its basic tenets is to maximize quality reps in practice. That is one of the basics of coaching. We were not doing that under Tedford by all accounts. We will still lose if other things don't fall into place but this one thing is the reason folks are excited about this staff and this system. We'll see if we can do this and if we have have enough talent for it to make a difference in wins and losses.
drizzlybears brother
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Buy-in is not the point of the quote. We assume buy-in, and we assume that the system is effective and that these players are qualified to master and execute it. The point of the quote is that you can't depend just on the system alone, that ultimately you still have the basic premise of having to beat the man lined up across from you.
GMP
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drizzlybears brother;842103770 said:

Buy-in is not the point of the quote. We assume buy-in, and we assume that the system is effective and that these players are qualified to master and execute it. The point of the quote is that you can't depend just on the system alone, that ultimately you still have the basic premise of having to beat the man lined up across from you.


Finally someone gets it. We literally have people on this board arguing, "Well, the LaTech QB Colby Cameron wasn't as talented as our QBs, so if he can put up 50 points a game at LaTech, imagine what we'll do!"

People who think our only problem the last few years was our QB do not understand football. Yes, our QBs have underwhelmed. But they weren't always terrible. Our QBs didn't give up 60+ points to Oregon and Oregon State. Or whatever the hell we gave up against Utah.

It was a complete and systemwide failure last season. And that doesn't mean Tedford's system was bad. And you're a fool if you think Dykes' system is plug and play. But Tedford clearly lost that team. And it will take a lot more than a new system to turn this around. The players have to buy-in. And what this Wazzu player illustrates is that buying in does not mean thinking, "Gee, this system is better than our last and that means we'll win!"

It means working your a-s off all year round to get better. It means believing in yourselves and trusting each other so that when you get down a score or two, you don't give up.

Make no mistake - Tedford's system was not the problem. The fact that he could apparently no longer motivate players to work hard enough to implement the system was the problem.

Dykes' system sounds easier, sure. But people quoting Zack Kline about how much easier the system is don't get it. The system being easier doesn't make you tough. And it doesn't make you resistant when your team falls behind 14-0.

Good coaching does help that. Believing in yourselves does help that. Working hard does help that. Let's hope that the players buy-in to the system on a more than superficial level. The players should look to Wazzu last season as a cautionary tale - just because the system is better does not mean you don't need to work.
HungryCalBear
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grandmastapoop;842103780 said:

Finally someone gets it. We literally have people on this board arguing, "Well, the LaTech QB Colby Cameron wasn't as talented as our QBs, so if he can put up 50 points a game at LaTech, imagine what we'll do!"

People who think our only problem the last few years was our QB do not understand football. Yes, our QBs have underwhelmed. But they weren't always terrible. Our QBs didn't give up 60+ points to Oregon and Oregon State. Or whatever the hell we gave up against Utah.

It was a complete and systemwide failure last season. And that doesn't mean Tedford's system was bad. And you're a fool if you think Dykes' system is plug and play. But Tedford clearly lost that team. And it will take a lot more than a new system to turn this around. The players have to buy-in. And what this Wazzu player illustrates is that buying in does not mean thinking, "Gee, this system is better than our last and that means we'll win!"

It means working your a-s off all year round to get better. It means believing in yourselves and trusting each other so that when you get down a score or two, you don't give up.

Make no mistake - Tedford's system was not the problem. The fact that he could apparently no longer motivate players to work hard enough to implement the system was the problem.

Dykes' system sounds easier, sure. But people quoting Zack Kline about how much easier the system is don't get it. The system being easier doesn't make you tough. And it doesn't make you resistant when your team falls behind 14-0.

Good coaching does help that. Believing in yourselves does help that. Working hard does help that. Let's hope that the players buy-in to the system on a more than superficial level. The players should look to Wazzu last season as a cautionary tale - just because the system is better does not mean you don't need to work.


One of the best posts I've seen on BI.

Adding to that, I think coach Dykes' ability to game plan against each unique opponent and game management remain to be seen, although I like everything I've read so far. Will be there to watch the Bear Raid for the first time tomorrow. GO BEARS!
NVGolfingBear
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"The system being easier doesn't make you tough. And it doesn't make you resistant when your team falls behind 14-0."


Which is what Sonny was talking about when he said the team needed to become Determined and Tough.

Nice post GMP!
SonOfCalVa
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grandmastapoop;842103780 said:

... It means believing in yourselves and trusting each other ...


Recall that when Dykes first spoke to the team (it's on video) on the day he was introduced as the new coach, he talked to them about:

TRUST

Trusting the coaches, trusting each other.

The coaches get it and interviews with the players indicate that they are getting it.



and, really, this thread started based upon an interview with a WSU player, under Leach ???????????? :p :p :p
chazzed
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ducktilldeath;842103324 said:

CAL actually has high level D1 talent which was being grossly mismanaged. That's why you're excited. Leach is trying to **** out a dumpster fire.


You're correct on the whole, but we are a bit lacking on the OL and in the secondary.
heartofthebear
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grandmastapoop;842103780 said:

Finally someone gets it. We literally have people on this board arguing, "Well, the LaTech QB Colby Cameron wasn't as talented as our QBs, so if he can put up 50 points a game at LaTech, imagine what we'll do!"

People who think our only problem the last few years was our QB do not understand football. Yes, our QBs have underwhelmed. But they weren't always terrible. Our QBs didn't give up 60+ points to Oregon and Oregon State. Or whatever the hell we gave up against Utah.

It was a complete and systemwide failure last season. And that doesn't mean Tedford's system was bad. And you're a fool if you think Dykes' system is plug and play. But Tedford clearly lost that team. And it will take a lot more than a new system to turn this around. The players have to buy-in. And what this Wazzu player illustrates is that buying in does not mean thinking, "Gee, this system is better than our last and that means we'll win!"

It means working your a-s off all year round to get better. It means believing in yourselves and trusting each other so that when you get down a score or two, you don't give up.

Make no mistake - Tedford's system was not the problem. The fact that he could apparently no longer motivate players to work hard enough to implement the system was the problem.

Dykes' system sounds easier, sure. But people quoting Zack Kline about how much easier the system is don't get it. The system being easier doesn't make you tough. And it doesn't make you resistant when your team falls behind 14-0.

Good coaching does help that. Believing in yourselves does help that. Working hard does help that. Let's hope that the players buy-in to the system on a more than superficial level. The players should look to Wazzu last season as a cautionary tale - just because the system is better does not mean you don't need to work.


Lot's of great points in this thread, especially GMP's above.
A couple of points of additional points:

1. I'm not sure we had a scheme before. JT had multiple scheme disorder. Now we are back to a single scheme identity like JT had early on.

2. No interview during spring practice has ever suggested anybody is over-confident. They do indicate a belief that Cal will score more because of the tempo, not the scheme.

3. The difference between WSU and Cal has everything to do with the talent level. There are 10 teams in the conference with the talent to get to a bowl any given year. WSU and Colorado are the other teams. WSU and Colorado consistently lag behind the other teams in recruiting and performance. Leach will eventually improve WSU, but not until they start playing defense.

4. Cal has defensive talent on par with the better teams in the conference. With the defensive talent at Cal, an offensive identity can go a long way to improving Cal overall.

5. WSU and Cal do share one problem. No matter how much they improve, they are not improving faster than the rest of the conference. This is where the overconfidence has always been a problem at Cal. We don't respect the other teams. Cal will improve a great deal this year and could still only win 4 or 5 games. There are only 4 teams on Cal's schedule next year that Cal will likely beat (Portland St., WSU, @Colorado, Arizona). The same thing is true at WSU.

Here is a list of teams that have improved at a faster rate than Cal over the last 5 years.

Oregon
Stanford
Arizona
Oregon St.
Washington
Utah

Last year the following teams improved dramatically as well
UCLA
ASU

I think Dykes will stop the bleeding but I don't know if he can heal the wounds. IOWs, we won't continue to get worse, but how much better we get relative to our conference rivals will depend on us continuing to get talent on defense as well as offense. Still waiting for those 4 star DBs to show up at Cal. Koa Farmer's a good start for 2014.
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