^^^ No need to rip or mock the kid.

The310;842106214 said:

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What makes you say he is one of the smartest guys on the team? He seems to be more of a clown. Does this look like someone who takes football and being the center of a D1 program seriously?

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First team Pac-12 all-Academic team. He was admitted to Penn. He had a very high GPA in HS, and maintains a high GPA at Cal. He has also broken at least one Cal weight-lifting record.

So he has brains. And he has brawn. But it seems that he has struggled to translate these two attributes into football brains and brawn. Very disappointing. He was the highest ranked OL prospect of the Tedford era (#1 for a while, and then finally #2 at his position), IIRC.

With grades as high as he has, likely first on the team, I bet he is smart enough first to figure it out, and second not to let comments on this board forum get to him. No offense, of course.

He's also been hurt.

Saying high snaps are better than low snaps is sort of like saying giving up a sack is better than giving up an interception. They are both bad. But the analogy breaks down fairly quickly -- snaps should be and can be automatic. But a million things can go wrong on a pass play or a run play that are beyond the control of the quarterback or running back.

Granted, snapping a football takes a lot of ability and concentration. Some people can do it, others can't.

I turned out to be the smartest guy on my HS football team (from a book-smart perspective). But I sure as hell couldn't snap a football (I played guard and linebacker). As the middle linebacker, I would go to 7-on-7 tournaments to play defense. I remember the coaches thinking, given my OL skills, that maybe I could fill in as a center during these tournaments (just so the QB could get a more realistic rep by taking a snap). I was a total failure. I hated it. And I was extremely uncomfortable with the quarterbacks hands there. So once I reached the conclusion that I couldn't do it, I partially sabotaged the coaching I received just to get out of the duty.

All this is to say I realize that snapping the football is a difficult skill to learn, and I don't think our centers lack intelligence. But Cochran and Brazinski have been playing the position for a very long time. It really should be automatic by now. There is no excuse for what we saw the last few years from their predecessors. Maynard was not a very good quarterback, but he would have been better if he wasn't worrying about to football soaring over his head.

Hopefully Brazinski and Cochran put in the hours every day after the weight room to get this thing right. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of natural athletic ability and scholarships. Fixing this fundamental problem would make our new QB's transition to a starter in the Pac-12 a lot easier.

The Duke!;842106322 said:

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[SIZE="1"]Saying high snaps are better than low snaps is sort of like saying giving up a sack is better than giving up an interception. They are both bad. But the analogy breaks down fairly quickly -- snaps should be and can be automatic. But a million things can go wrong on a pass play or a run play that are beyond the control of the quarterback or running back.

Granted, snapping a football takes a lot of ability and concentration. Some people can do it, others can't.

I turned out to be the smartest guy on my HS football team (from a book-smart perspective). But I sure as hell couldn't snap a football (I played guard and linebacker). As the middle linebacker, I would go to 7-on-7 tournaments to play defense. I remember the coaches thinking, given my OL skills, that maybe I could fill in as a center during these tournaments (just so the QB could get a more realistic rep by taking a snap). I was a total failure. I hated it. And I was extremely uncomfortable with the quarterbacks hands there. So once I reached the conclusion that I couldn't do it, I partially sabotaged the coaching I received just to get out of the duty.

All this is to say I realize that snapping the football is a difficult skill to learn, and I don't think our centers lack intelligence. But Cochran and Brazinski have been playing the position for a very long time. It really should be automatic by now. There is no excuse for what we saw the last few years from their predecessors. Maynard was not a very good quarterback, but he would have been better if he wasn't worrying about to football soaring over his head.

Hopefully Brazinski and Cochran put in the hours every day after the weight room to get this thing right. Otherwise, it would be a tremendous waste of natural athletic ability and scholarships. Fixing this fundamental problem would make our new QB's transition to a starter in the Pac-12 a lot easier.[/SIZE]

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send Sonny your resume .. I'm sure he'll offer you something. :p

Adcock was recruited as a center, perhaps he'll get reps there when he finishes rehab.

Adcock was our primary back up at Center last year, but we didn't have to use him. He should make the OL rotation at guard when healthy....

SonOfCalVa;842106330 said:

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send Sonny your resume .. I'm sure he'll offer you something. :p

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I was hoping that offering scholarships to centers who can't snap would end now that Sonny is coach. I certainly hope he doesn't start offering old guys who can neither block nor snap.

(If you can pin it on one thing)

I can only think of one highly rated offensive lineman that was recruited by Tedford and made it to the NFL: Schwartz. I know Mack was the best offensive lineman during the Tedford era but he was a low ranked recruit. I'm sure I've missed others (?). If Sonny only does one thing right during his Cal career let it be recruiting and coaching great offensive linemen. Your offense just can't go anywhere for long without them.

The Duke!;842105311 said:

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You can say that about pretty much any question on any of these boards, including many of the food ones.

You seem incredibly impatient with people you judge to be impatient. But patience is all that is available to you, as I am pretty sure most Cal fans find the high snaps to be highly problematic at best and inexcusable at worst.

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I find the term "inexcusable" to be inexcusable.

But, demand on.

I finally clicked in on this thread to see what topic had bogarted the OP only to find that it's in fact 3 pages and counting on snapping.

Well done.

82gradDLSdad;842106353 said:

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(If you can pin it on one thing)

I can only think of one highly rated offensive lineman that was recruited by Tedford and made it to the NFL: Schwartz. I know Mack was the best offensive lineman during the Tedford era but he was a low ranked recruit. I'm sure I've missed others (?). If Sonny only does one thing right during his Cal career let it be recruiting and coaching great offensive linemen. Your offense just can't go anywhere for long without them.

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I think, given Tedford being Tedford, the single biggest issue (which Sonny quickly identified) was not bringing in enough bodies at OL (or moving guys from the DL when we were very deep there). I think OL is the most difficult position to project to the next level, there is usually a LOT of growing, strength and conditioning ahead and injuries are very common. You just have to bring in plenty of guys to be assured that you end up with enough good/healthy ones. 5 of 24 starters (including kickers) is more that 20% of your team and should be at least 20% of your recruits.

The issues at OL hurt our run game (3 yards total in Big Game), especially given our predictable tendency to run between the tackles on first down, and pushed us towards an offense that Tedford was not familiar with but tried to implement himself (though we still called plays like a power running team) and towards Maynard at QB with no good options. All of that felt like he was desperately and ineffectively trying to compensate for the major problem: our OL.

Almost half a century ago, ( shudder ), our very talented high school shortstop used to pop reds before games. Once, I witnessed his attempt to throw an aggressive base runner out at home, whereupon, he threw the ball over the top of the backstop.

We aren't there yet.

:rollinglaugh:

The late Gene McCarthy, senator and presidential candidate, once said about Gerald Ford, who had been an all-american center at Michigan: "I'd feel a lot more secure if I knew that my President didn't spend his formative years looking at the world upside down between his legs."

The problem here - more than in 2012 - is that the Tony Franklin offense is completely based on quick and precise timing. Having a QB have to leap for a ball due to a high snap hurts this offense rather more severely than perhaps high snaps even hurt in the past. This will HAVE to be fixed by the call for sure ...

82gradDLSdad;842106353 said:

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(If you can pin it on one thing)

I can only think of one highly rated offensive lineman that was recruited by Tedford and made it to the NFL: Schwartz. I know Mack was the best offensive lineman during the Tedford era but he was a low ranked recruit. I'm sure I've missed others (?). If Sonny only does one thing right during his Cal career let it be recruiting and coaching great offensive linemen. Your offense just can't go anywhere for long without them.

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Mike Gibson and Brian de la Puente are some other OL guys under Tedford who had significant NFL action.

Schwenke will probably get drafted somewhere. Don't know why you would only look at high ranked talent that succeeded versus just looking at success period.

Since the end goal is evaluating and selecting talent that pans out then why should it matter how they were ranked?

StillNoStanfurdium;842106430 said:

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Mike Gibson and Brian de la Puente are some other OL guys under Tedford who had significant NFL action.

Schwenke will probably get drafted somewhere. Don't know why you would only look at high ranked talent that succeeded versus just looking at success period.

Since the end goal is evaluating and selecting talent that pans out then why should it matter how they were ranked?

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Unless you make it a practice of taking low ranked guys and turn them into pros having a couple of low ranked guys pan out typically means you lucked out. To be a good college team you have to recruit well and/or coach well. It looks like we did neither on the offensive line front. Bottom line, like I said, Sonny's offense will go only as far as his offensive linemen take it.

It really is not that hard to snap correctly. As a former center, the one thing you have to do on a play is...get the ball to the QB. I think these guys are thinking too much about their assignments and not thinking about snapping the ball. It is pretty much a given that if there is a nose guard, you are blocking them. Snap the ball, hit the nose guard. Center is a pretty easy spot.

They are trying to snap the ball too fast to the QB. THat is what I think. They are winging it back there and frankly they do not need to. That is why it is going to high or too low. They need to take it easy and get it back there.

Galas probably had some issues with focus, just based on his penalties, poor snaps, etc. But you would think that some of the others would be able to deal with this. They need to practice this about 100 times each practice.

txwharfrat;842106395 said:

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The problem here - more than in 2012 - is that the Tony Franklin offense is completely based on quick and precise timing. Having a QB have to leap for a ball due to a high snap hurts this offense rather more severely than perhaps high snaps even hurt in the past. This will HAVE to be fixed by the call for sure ...

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Add this on. It's going to take a little time to get the new snap system down because there's several moving parts:

a) Center looks straight ahead for the read
b) QB hand signals he's ready (chop signal)
c) RG looks back, reads the QB signal and tells the Center
d) C makes a blind snap

The blind snap seems like a touch play given he's not looking. That will take time to get down.

drizzlybears brother;842106362 said:

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I finally clicked in on this thread to see what topic had bogarted the OP only to find that it's in fact 3 pages and counting on snapping.

Well done.

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Yeah. An actual football thread on a football forum. Very strange.

Maybe we should return to quarterback crushes and burrito politics.

Oski87;842106500 said:

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.They need to practice this about 100 times each practice.

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One of the good things about this is they do not need a formal practice. They just need to get a teammate (a QB preferably so they practice catching the snaps) or just a friend and go out every day and practice snapping. Hopefully they do that thousands of times and get it down before Fall camp.

In this offense, timing is even more critical. If the snap is not accurate it throws the timing off regardless of wether it is high or low.

As I recall Adcock's snaps were bad as well, even when they were regular snaps.
I thought Cochran had improved on Brazinski to the point where it is not a serious problem.
Is Cochran having trouble snapping as well?

heartofthebear;842106940 said:

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Is Cochran having trouble snapping as well?

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According to some reports, yes. But not as bad as Brazinski.

So both the C and QB are huge question marks. Unfortunately every play begins with those two positions. Mistakes by either immediately nullify plays from the get-go at best and are turnovers waiting to happen at worst. It's kinda like starting the MLB season with a rookie shortstop and a rookie 2nd baseman, who have both never played a major league game. On top of that, we have a brand new coaching staff trying to install a totally new system. Damn! Talking about a nerve-wracking season waiting to happen. Better have the tylenol and rolaids ready.

tenplay;842107047 said:

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So both the C and QB are huge question marks. Unfortunately every play begins with those two positions. Mistakes by either immediately nullify plays from the get-go at best and are turnovers waiting to happen at worst. It's kinda like starting the MLB season with a rookie shortstop and a rookie 2nd baseman, who have both never played a major league game. On top of that, we have a brand new coaching staff trying to install a totally new system. Damn! Talking about a nerve-wracking season waiting to happen. Better have the tylenol and rolaids ready.

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But there is a BIG difference.

All three candidates for QB are better than Maynard.

As for the Center, the candidates appear to be no better than last year's Center.

68great;842107058 said:

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But there is a BIG difference.

All three candidates for QB are better than Maynard.

As for the Center, the candidates appear to be no better than last year's Center.

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Cochran will snap better than Galas ever did. Don't know about his blocking though. After what I saw Sunday, if Brazinski snaps for us we are in trouble. I just can't see someone who has been a C for years getting rid of bad snapping habits in a few months. If he hasn't done it yet there is a good chance it just won't happen. I'm guessing Brazinski is 3rd team C and ? team G starting in the fall once Adcock is back.

82gradDLSdad;842107069 said:

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Cochran will snap better than Galas ever did. Don't know about his blocking though. After what I saw Sunday, if Brazinski snaps for us we are in trouble. I just can't see someone who has been a C for years getting rid of bad snapping habits in a few months. If he hasn't done it yet there is a good chance it just won't happen. I'm guessing Brazinski is 3rd team C and ? team G starting in the fall once Adcock is back.

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We have a walk-on center from Chico, big, smart kid, whose camp films snapping back, then blocking, looked pretty good ...

82gradDLSdad;842107069 said:

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Cochran will snap better than Galas ever did. Don't know about his blocking though. After what I saw Sunday, if Brazinski snaps for us we are in trouble. I just can't see someone who has been a C for years getting rid of bad snapping habits in a few months. If he hasn't done it yet there is a good chance it just won't happen. I'm guessing Brazinski is 3rd team C and ? team G starting in the fall once Adcock is back.

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There may be some significant shuffling in the interior make-up of the OL. C and RG for the 2-deep, as well as LG for the 2nd group. I can't see Braz as a senior being 3rd team (essentially scout team) - but someone will need to play center for that group. I don't believe any of the kids coming in as freshmen have center experience. If Tyndall has a long rehab (likely given the extent of his injury), they may need to move Moore over to tackle. We don't know at all how Adcock would do with having to make that snap every play. The rest of the spring and summer will require a lot of practice by all!

I think Cochran is going to be fine at Center. Remember that these guys are learning an enormous amount of new stuff in a short time, and he is just a freshman. Shotgun snaps are a matter of practicing so much that it is like a golf swing; muscle memory. Give him a few months of repetition and he'll be much better.

Not sure what's up with Braz. I hope he also gets better but that worries me more than Cochran. He's had years to perfect his snap. I don't have a lot of optimism for Braz.

Adcock is the wildcard. Who knows if he can snap or not at this point. I'm assuming he'll slide in at Guard somewhere.

The walk on O'Connell from Chico was excellent in HS and snapped the shotgun perfectly. But that was HS. I assume he will blueshirt. He won't even be 18 until Halloween. The word is that USC really wanted him but didn't have any schollies to give. Huffman says he had a lot of offers coming but his commit to Cal shut them down. I actually think and hope we hooked a gem under the radar.

Go Bears!

ps: I hope Cochran's snaps are better than my golf swing

okaydo;842105203 said:

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Brazinski was so highly touted, yet in his 5th year he has nothing done anything special or significant. And he cannot snap a ball says it all.

It says it all, really.

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A "center" who cant snap the ball consistently is like a "sniper" who cant shoot consistently. It is just a guy filling a billet.

TrenchMonster;842107094 said:

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I think Cochran is going to be fine at Center. Remember that these guys are learning an enormous amount of new stuff in a short time, and he is just a freshman. Shotgun snaps are a matter of practicing so much that it is like a golf swing; muscle memory. Give him a few months of repetition and he'll be much better.

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I don't understand this mentality. Cochran has been snapping the ball for many years now. He was a high school center. And he was snapping all last year in college. It's not like this is a new skill that he needs to learn.

The only way to get better is to commit yourself to getting better NOW. If a few more months of normal reps were the solution, Braz would be awesome at snapping by now.

I think you are missing the obvious with Brazinski. He doesn't care. He's milked this situation almost dry. He's gotten a great education, hasn't really had to do anything but lift a few weights and rehab from getting hurt. This is the poster child for why Tedford isn't the coach anymore. He left the O Line to Marshall and this is the caliber of player Cal has recruited for almost 7 years. This is 'Star Inflation' and just poor/inadequate/lazy effort in player evaluation. Similar to the string of qb's under Tedford. Dykes knows he's 'whistling past the graveyard' with this O Line. Just remember, three yards rushing against Stanford. That says it all. :cry:

Many spread teams have a segment of practice three or so times a week - 8-10 mins - where the deep snappers do nothing but snap the ball back to a coach, injured player, trainer, etc. This is often done at time qbs are loosening up, doing their footwork drills, etc. Repetition makes the snap second nature, automatic so that you can focus on nose guards, line calls, etc.

I did not see a practice, but presuming this was done, if there are still problems after 3 weeks there is some cause for concern at the position on the snapping aspect. On the snapping aspect alone, if that is not just corrected but perfected by August, you need a new center. A good snap has to be a given in a spread offense.

Just as problematic is the run game. Now maybe the front 7 on defense is that good but even with injuries at RT and RB, the reports I read throughout the Spring never suggested any consistency at running the ball. And here is the kicker - what separates this spread offense from most is they have run the ball effectively. Many things about the offense right down to the line splits indicate they want to run the ball - especially wide.

I am not saying the sky is falling. To me, two big areas of concern going into the Spring - DE and QB look pretty good. Another, the OL does not. I guess the secondary is in between, but you have to remember in terms of pass coverage skills, those guys got a ton of reps, will continue to get a ton of reps, and should only get better.

Bottom line, come August, focus is on OL - even more so than qb.

slotright20;842108451 said:

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... Bottom line, come August, focus is on OL - even more so than qb.

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I think the focus has always been on the OL even as other positions got attention. Without an effective OL, starting with a completely consistent snap, the BearRaid will need first aid, and then some.

It would be great if one or two incoming recruits can provide additional depth but it's not a question of bodies. It's what those bodies can and can't do effectively that will determine how this season goes.

HOWEVER ... it shouldn't be difficult to get more than three (3) yards and three (3) points against the furdies ...

A look through the recruiting lists ... can't find many (any?) top-rated HS centers from California ... if true, wonder why that is?

While we are on the subject of O Line. What is the situation with Gibson? He's going to be a Senior or Junior and has never seen the field? Sounds like another situation of non productive scholarship waste. Inability to pick up the playbook or just not up to the 'star' rating out of high school?