Dduster;842109131 said:

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While we are on the subject of O Line. What is the situation with Gibson? He's going to be a Senior or Junior and has never seen the field? Sounds like another situation of non productive scholarship waste. Inability to pick up the playbook or just not up to the 'star' rating out of high school?

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According to the CalBears profile he'll be a RS Jr. this year and played 10 games in 2012. He was just a 3-star player out of high school so I don't feel like he's got huge expectations. Besides, with 2 years left to play he'll have a chance to prove himself and make his mark.

drizzlybears brother;842106360 said:

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I find the term "inexcusable" to be inexcusable.

But, demand on.

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If fans didn't demand basic execution in exchange for the huge investment Cal has made in its football program, then either Tom Holmoe or Jeff Tedford would still be coaching the team.

Demanding a Rose Bowl this year = a bit unreasonable.
Demanding that we snap the ball correctly = being a real fan.

High snaps, low snaps, they are all inexcusable at this level. One or two a game a little high can be lived with. If you watch good centers they not only consistently put it in the qbs hands but slightly to the side of his throwing shoulder - kind of like a throw to an infielder in baseball who has to in turn make a throw - you aim slightly toward the side of the throwing shoulder. If Cochran or Braz do not have this perfected by the first practice in August, you have to look elsewhere and if Adcock cannot do it then that includes the kid from Chico. If nothing else, you need a better snapper at backup than Braz.

slotright20;842109149 said:

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High snaps, low snaps, they are all inexcusable at this level. One or two a game a little high can be lived with. If you watch good centers they not only consistently put it in the qbs hands but slightly to the side of his throwing shoulder - kind of like a throw to an infielder in baseball who has to in turn make a throw - you aim slightly toward the side of the throwing shoulder. If Cochran or Braz do not have this perfected by the first practice in August, you have to look elsewhere and if Adcock cannot do it then that includes the kid from Chico. If nothing else, you need a better snapper at backup than Braz.

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Amen.

SonOfCalVa;842108452 said:

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I think the focus has always been on the OL even as other positions got attention. Without an effective OL, starting with a completely consistent snap, the BearRaid will need first aid, and then some.

It would be great if one or two incoming recruits can provide additional depth but it's not a question of bodies. It's what those bodies can and can't do effectively that will determine how this season goes.

HOWEVER ... it shouldn't be difficult to get more than three (3) yards and three (3) points against the furdies ...

A look through the recruiting lists ... can't find many (any?) top-rated HS centers from California ... if true, wonder why that is?

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Do not know about California hs centers but here in spread attacks, the center is often smallish - 210-215 even at premier programs. They are there because they can snap the ball. The larger, better blockers tend to play tackle.

As an example is Schwarztein ( sp?) at Furd. He was a 270 pound tackle at perennial powerhouse Southlake Carroll - the center on that team his senior year went about 5'10", 210. Schwarztein evolved into a second team all Pac !2center after never playing the position in hs.

The Duke!;842107286 said:

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I don't understand this mentality. Cochran has been snapping the ball for many years now. He was a high school center. And he was snapping all last year in college. It's not like this is a new skill that he needs to learn.

The only way to get better is to commit yourself to getting better NOW. If a few more months of normal reps were the solution, Braz would be awesome at snapping by now.

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Depending on the offense his high school ran, Cochran may have never shotgun snapped. I doubt he got significant reps last season with the old regime either. This could be a totally new thing for him.

slider643;842109253 said:

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Depending on the offense his high school ran, Cochran may have never shotgun snapped. I doubt he got significant reps last season with the old regime either. This could be a totally new thing for him.

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I believe he was the scout team center last year. This would have given him a ton of shotgun experience, as every single team we played last year lined up in the shotgun.

EDIT: I just checked his HS tape. His team indeed lined up in the gun. The QB mostly lined up under center, but there were plenty of shotgun snaps as well.

There is no excuse. Our centers need to put in the work and get this fixed.

The Duke!;842109337 said:

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I believe he was the scout team center last year. This would have given him a ton of shotgun experience, as every single team we played last year lined up in the shotgun.

EDIT: I just checked his HS tape. His team indeed lined up in the gun. The QB mostly lined up under center, but there were plenty of shotgun snaps as well.

There is no excuse. Our centers need to put in the work and get this fixed.

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Being a scout team center for one season doesn't give him a "ton of shotgun experience". Being on a high school team that occasionally lines up in the gun doesn't give him a "ton of shotgun experience". He's learning his craft on the job while trying to win a position battle. And he's doing fairly well from what I can tell. I expect him to get significantly better as he gains actual experience snapping over the summer and fall camp.

Having said that, if he or any other Cs on the team can't snap more consistently than we're seeing now, we need to move on to the next prospect.

There is also the possibility that Dykes - Franklin - Yenser have asked the Centers to change the way they snap, and they may be at the base of a learning curve.

Most Centers learn to snap to the belly - chest area, where the QB looks down and catches the ball hands low and forward. There is a school of thought that if you snap higher toward the neck - face then the QB doesn't have to move his eyes off the field as much. Instead of looking down to find the ball it rises and enters his line of vision. He should catch it under his chin with his hands up where QB's carry the ball when they are preparing to throw. It theoretically allows for quicker passes and better QB awareness of the field.

Maybe someone on the insider track can ask Yenser if the Centers and QB's are learning some new technique. It might explain a few things.

Go Bears!

slider643;842109356 said:

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Being a scout team center for one season doesn't give him a "ton of shotgun experience". Being on a high school team that occasionally lines up in the gun doesn't give him a "ton of shotgun experience". He's learning his craft on the job while trying to win a position battle. And he's doing fairly well from what I can tell. I expect him to get significantly better as he gains actual experience snapping over the summer and fall camp.

Having said that, if he or any other Cs on the team can't snap more consistently than we're seeing now, we need to move on to the next prospect.

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As the Scout team center, he snapped from the shotgun every single day in practice. He snapped the ball exclusively in the gun when the team was preparing against Nevada, Ohio State, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington State. Washington and Southern Utah lined up a lot out of the gun. All of the other teams also ran some shotgun. So yeah, that is a lot of experience.

TrenchMonster;842109373 said:

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There is also the possibility that Dykes - Franklin - Yenser have asked the Centers to change the way they snap, and they may be at the base of a learning curve.

Most Centers learn to snap to the belly - chest area, where the QB looks down and catches the ball hands low and forward. There is a school of thought that if you snap higher toward the neck - face then the QB doesn't have to move his eyes off the field as much. Instead of looking down to find the ball it rises and enters his line of vision. He should catch it under his chin with his hands up where QB's carry the ball when they are preparing to throw. It theoretically allows for quicker passes and better QB awareness of the field.

Maybe someone on the insider track can ask Yenser if the Centers and QB's are learning some new technique. It might explain a few things.

Go Bears!

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I think it is safe to assume that the entire team is learning new techniques, a new scheme, and a new mix of personnel. Cochran and Adcock will be just fine this fall. Still not sure where Braz will fit in. I can't see him being on the scout team as a senior.

The Duke!;842109378 said:

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As the Scout team center, he snapped from the shotgun every single day in practice. He snapped the ball exclusively in the gun when the team was preparing against Nevada, Ohio State, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington State. Washington and Southern Utah lined up a lot out of the gun. All of the other teams also ran some shotgun. So yeah, that is a lot of experience.

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Did you witness this or is this speculation?

The Duke!;842109378 said:

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As the Scout team center, he snapped from the shotgun every single day in practice. He snapped the ball exclusively in the gun when the team was preparing against Nevada, Ohio State, UCLA, Oregon, and Washington State. Washington and Southern Utah lined up a lot out of the gun. All of the other teams also ran some shotgun. So yeah, that is a lot of experience.

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okay, "coach" ... you made your point, then again, and again, and again, and again, and again ............ and again.
You're perfectly positioned to say that you told everyone so. :axe

:gobears:

SonOfCalVa;842109504 said:

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okay, "coach" ... you made your point, then again, and again, and again, and again, and again ............ and again.
You're perfectly positioned to say that you told everyone so. :axe

:gobears:

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As have you, big guy. Keep up the good work. Maybe you can go start your own thread about how everything is just fine and there is no need or use in fans discussing anything other than your narrative.

slider643;842109439 said:

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Did you witness this or is this speculation?

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Neither. I don't live in the States, so I could not have witnessed it. But it is hardly speculation. The Scout Team emulates the opponents' formations and plays in order to help our first and second team defense prepare for that week's matchup. This is the case wherever you go.

Since the teams that I mention above (Nevada, OSU, UCLA, Oregon, WSU, etc.) run their offenses exclusively out of the shotgun, it is the responsibility of the Scout Team center to snap the ball like the opposing team's starting center snaps the ball. Thus Cochran got plenty of reps snapping from the gun last year. I have no doubt that our QB will line up a tad bit differently than those other teams' QBs did. But it is not like this is a totally new skill for Cochran or our other centers.

This is how it works at every college practice that I have ever been to. Nothing special. It doesn't matter if it is Tedford, Holmoe, or Dykes. The scout team offense does their best to look like the opposing team's offense. That includes snapping the ball like the other team snaps it.

The Duke!;842109553 said:

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Neither. I don't live in the States, so I could not have witnessed it. But it is hardly speculation. The Scout Team emulates the opponents' formations and plays in order to help our first and second team defense prepare for that week's matchup. This is the case wherever you go.

Since the teams that I mention above (Nevada, OSU, UCLA, Oregon, WSU, etc.) run their offenses exclusively out of the shotgun, it is the responsibility of the Scout Team center to snap the ball like the opposing team's starting center snaps the ball. Thus Cochran got plenty of reps snapping from the gun last year. I have no doubt that our QB will line up a tad bit differently than those other teams' QBs did. But it is not like this is a totally new skill for Cochran or our other centers.

This is how it works at every college practice that I have ever been to. Nothing special. It doesn't matter if it is Tedford, Holmoe, or Dykes. The scout team offense does their best to look like the opposing team's offense. That includes snapping the ball like the other team snaps it.

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You didn't witness this so your whole argument is speculation.

How active was the scout team? 20 plays a practice? 100? Was Cochran the only snapper on the scout team? How often was the scout team live versus working positioning and recognition for the 1s and 2s? How often did Cochran shotgun snap against live 1s and 2s? Was Cochran even coached regarding shotgun fundamentals? By an offensive or defensive coach?

What about all the other scout team OL? Why aren't they starters right now? Shouldn't they all have mastered blocking by now? I mean every team we faced used blocking, right?

slider643;842109591 said:

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You didn't witness this so your whole argument is speculation.

How active was the scout team? 20 plays a practice? 100? Was Cochran the only snapper on the scout team? How often was the scout team live versus working positioning and recognition for the 1s and 2s? How often did Cochran shotgun snap against live 1s and 2s? Was Cochran even coached regarding shotgun fundamentals? By an offensive or defensive coach?

What about all the other scout team OL? Why aren't they starters right now? Shouldn't they all have mastered blocking by now? I mean every team we faced used blocking, right?

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You are being unduly dismissive.

I think it is very fair to assume that Cochran was the scout team center last year, as Brazinski was injured and Adcock was in the 2-deeps. As the scout team center, he would have been the one who snapped the ball against the first and second team defenses. I remember Tedford saying he was doing a good job in Fall camp, and I assume he meant doing a good job at center, not as water boy.

I am not crazy about our former staff, but you would be nuts to believe that Cochran never received any coaching on how to snap the ball. Tedford was on record as saying that all of the OL (even guards and tackles) received coaching on how to snap the football.

I don't understand your comment about the other scout team OL. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone who played guard and tackle on the scout team last year would start this year. But it is reasonable to expect that they know how to execute the three point stance. I am glad that Cochran is poised to be a good blocker. But none of it matters if he can't improve his snapping. This is fundamental. Please note: I have every confidence that he (and/or Brazinski) can improve. But they need to put in the work now and get this taken care of over the summer.

I was not there to witness it, but I also believe that athletic trainers and video managers were at practice. I believe the players had access to water. I also believe Tedford and Coach M wore pants and shoes to practice. Would you also dismiss these remarks as mere speculation, or do you find them to be reasonable assumptions?

The Duke!;842109631 said:

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You are being unduly dismissive.

I think it is very fair to assume that Cochran was the scout team center last year, as Brazinski was injured and Adcock was in the 2-deeps. As the scout team center, he would have been the one who snapped the ball against the first and second team defenses. I remember Tedford saying he was doing a good job in Fall camp, and I assume he meant doing a good job at center, not as water boy.

I am not crazy about our former staff, but you would be nuts to believe that Cochran never received any coaching on how to snap the ball. Tedford was on record as saying that all of the OL (even guards and tackles) received coaching on how to snap the football.

I don't understand your comment about the other scout team OL. It is unreasonable to expect that everyone who played guard and tackle on the scout team last year would start this year. But it is reasonable to expect that they know how to execute the three point stance. I am glad that Cochran is poised to be a good blocker. But none of it matters if he can't improve his snapping. This is fundamental. Please note: I have every confidence that he (and/or Brazinski) can improve. But they need to put in the work now and get this taken care of over the summer.

I was not there to witness it, but I also believe that athletic trainers and video managers were at practice. I believe the players had access to water. I also believe Tedford and Coach M wore pants and shoes to practice. Would you also dismiss these remarks as mere speculation, or do you find them to be reasonable assumptions?

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Once again, how many game situation shotgun snaps has Cochran made in high school and at Cal? There's nothing that indicates he's made many. His high school occasionally ran the shotgun. He may or may not have been scout team snapper. We have no idea how the scout team was run. In most practices I've seen (not just at Cal), there are rarely full speed, full contact plays during the season.

Snapping the ball is a physical movement, not static like a three point stance. That's not a valid argument. You imply that because Cochran was on the scout team he should have mastered this movement of snapping the ball. How is that different than the entire scout team OL learning the physical movement of blocking?

Cochran, as far as I can tell, has had neither a high number of shotgun snaps nor the game speed experience to master the craft. I would bet that he's done more long snapping this spring camp than the rest of his career combined.

slider643;842109684 said:

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Once again, how many game situation shotgun snaps has Cochran made in high school and at Cal? There's nothing that indicates he's made many. His high school occasionally ran the shotgun. He may or may not have been scout team snapper. We have no idea how the scout team was run. In most practices I've seen (not just at Cal), there are rarely full speed, full contact plays during the season.

Snapping the ball is a physical movement, not static like a three point stance. That's not a valid argument. You imply that because Cochran was on the scout team he should have mastered this movement of snapping the ball. How is that different than the entire scout team OL learning the physical movement of blocking?

Cochran, as far as I can tell, has had neither a high number of shotgun snaps nor the game speed experience to master the craft. I would bet that he's done more long snapping this spring camp than the rest of his career combined.

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Who else would have been the scout team center last year? I have witnessed practices at 4 different D-1 colleges, and the scout team absolutely goes full speed against the ones and twos. Not every day, but at least once a week. He also had all of fall camp last year and spring ball this year.

Snapping is the center's most fundamental job. It is how he starts the play. Just like getting into a good stance is how a guard or tackle starts the play. Granted, it is more difficult. But it is comparable.

The funny thing is, his high school shotgun snaps looked really good. He needs to get back to where he was in high school.

The Duke!;842109794 said:

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Who else would have been the scout team center last year? I have witnessed practices at 4 different D-1 colleges, and the scout team absolutely goes full speed against the ones and twos. Not every day, but at least once a week. He also had all of fall camp last year and spring ball this year.

Snapping is the center's most fundamental job. It is how he starts the play. Just like getting into a good stance is how a guard or tackle starts the play. Granted, it is more difficult. But it is comparable.

The funny thing is, his high school shotgun snaps looked really good. He needs to get back to where he was in high school.

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So now his "ton of shotgun experience" is down to high school where his team sometimes used the shotgun and last season where he went live once a week. Maybe even twice a week.

How many snaps in that one practice? In practices I've seen at this level, the scout team goes full speed for maybe 20 plays against 1s and 2s. Is your experience different? Do you consider 20-40 snaps a week a "ton of experience"? I don't, but if that's your definition, I'll concede the argument.

fwiw, I don't think I've seen Cochran make more than a handful of bad snaps all of camp. There was one on the first play of the spring game which had everyone rolling their eyes, but overall I think he's done a good job. I think he'll be fine even if he doesn't have a "ton of shotgun experience".

slider643;842109843 said:

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So now his "ton of shotgun experience" is down to high school where his team sometimes used the shotgun and last season where he went live once a week. Maybe even twice a week.

How many snaps in that one practice? In practices I've seen at this level, the scout team goes full speed for maybe 20 plays against 1s and 2s. Is your experience different? Do you consider 20-40 snaps a week a "ton of experience"? I don't, but if that's your definition, I'll concede the argument.

fwiw, I don't think I've seen Cochran make more than a handful of bad snaps all of camp. There was one on the first play of the spring game which had everyone rolling their eyes, but overall I think he's done a good job. I think he'll be fine even if he doesn't have a "ton of shotgun experience".

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You're amazing. By your logic, we couldn't ever criticize players like Joe Ayoob or Zach Maynard. Both of those guys had a heck of a lot less experience in Tedford's system when they took over their jobs than Cochran had at snapping the ball in the gun.

Yes, I think that snapping the ball every single day is sufficient experience, even if he only goes "live" for 40 or so plays per practice (not 20).

I saw the spring game online. The snaps were noticeably better than Brazinski's. But there were still more than a few high snaps. This has the potential to really screw up the timing of the routes and hand-offs.

The Duke!;842109882 said:

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You're amazing. By your logic, we couldn't ever criticize players like Joe Ayoob or Zach Maynard. Both of those guys had a heck of a lot less experience in Tedford's system when they took over their jobs than Cochran had at snapping the ball in the gun.

Yes, I think that snapping the ball every single day is sufficient experience, even if he only goes "live" for 40 or so plays per practice (not 20).

I saw the spring game online. The snaps were noticeably better than Brazinski's. But there were still more than a few high snaps. This has the potential to really screw up the timing of the routes and hand-offs.

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The poor free throwing by the women must drive you crazy. I'm guessing that they practice those a lot. But I guess practice doesn't always make perfect. I'm not saying I disagree with you. Nor am I trying to change the topic. I just couldn't help wondering, in light of recent events, what you must think.

heartofthebear;842109886 said:

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The poor free throwing by the women must drive you crazy. I'm guessing that they practice those a lot. But I guess practice doesn't always make perfect. I'm not saying I disagree with you. Nor am I trying to change the topic. I just couldn't help wondering, in light of recent events, what you must think.

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It does drive me crazy. That is a pretty good (but not perfect) analogy. Like snaps, FTs are supposed to be automatic. But even the very best free throw shooters still miss 7-12% of the time. The best snappers would consider such a ratio to be completely unacceptable.

But it is easy to overlook such things when you make the final four. I won't care if 40% of the snaps soar over the QBs head so long as we make a Rose Bowl (the football equivalent of final four).

It seems to me that Dykes really won't pick a starter until Adcock is healthy and can compete for a spot. Since we have a blueshirt freshman center coming in none of the three playing centers (Cochran, Brazinski, Adcock) need to be on the scout team.

I have to believe that one of them can figure out how to snap the damned football between now and August!

If not, try the guards. Then try the tackles! A long snapper!! Water boy!!!

Either way, I am pretty sure that the sky isn't falling quite yet.

Go Bears!

The Duke!;842109882 said:

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You're amazing. By your logic, we couldn't ever criticize players like Joe Ayoob or Zach Maynard. Both of those guys had a heck of a lot less experience in Tedford's system when they took over their jobs than Cochran had at snapping the ball in the gun.

Yes, I think that snapping the ball every single day is sufficient experience, even if he only goes "live" for 40 or so plays per practice (not 20).

I saw the spring game online. The snaps were noticeably better than Brazinski's. But there were still more than a few high snaps. This has the potential to really screw up the timing of the routes and hand-offs.

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Thank you for admitting that I'm amazing.

Ayoob and Maynard threw many, many more passes than Cochran has snapped. Maybe their totals reach your mark of "ton of experience throwing the ball" as it does mine.

That doesn't change the fact that Cochran does not have a "ton of shotgun experience".

I've never seen 40 live plays against a scout team in a single practice. I've never seen more than two days a week where teams go live against the scout team. The schools you saw are pretty exceptional. Which schools did you visit that hit so much so often? I'm genuinely interested to know and see if there's any kind of correlation between brutal practices in season and teams winning percentage.

And nowhere have I said that we shouldn't criticize the snapping. I said that Cochran does not have a lot of experience. Your own arguments prove me right unless you consider what you say Cochran has done is a "ton of shotgun experience".

The Duke!;842109889 said:

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It does drive me crazy. That is a pretty good (but not perfect) analogy. Like snaps, FTs are supposed to be automatic. But even the very best free throw shooters still miss 7-12% of the time. The best snappers would consider such a ratio to be completely unacceptable.

But it is easy to overlook such things when you make the final four. I won't care if 40% of the snaps soar over the QBs head so long as we make a Rose Bowl (the football equivalent of final four).[/QUOTE]

I'm looking forward to being able to overlook the bad snaps as you stated.
:beer:

I have to admit that, for a while, I kind of liked the bad snaps. It gave Maynard a valid excuse.:p

Things that should drive you crazy.

1. Poor time management by men paid millions of dollars a year to coach football.

2. Fumbles.

3.Defense jumping off sides on 4th and less than 5 - worst penalty in football.

4. Roughing the punter - second worst penalty in football.

5. Four yard out patterns on 3rd or 4th and five.

6. Poor snaps.

7. In short yardage, snapping the ball 5-7 yards back and then trying to run. Every team needs a short yardage offense with a qb under center.

8. Taking the wind, when a passing team on a windy day loses the toss and a
ball control team elects to receive. Passing team should squib into wind - otherwise ball control team can take ball and grind away precious minutes of passing teams allotted time with wind before passing team ever has a possession.

9. Poorly conditioned football team - usually shows up first in DL.

10. Failing to wrap up while tackling - this should be higher up list.

11. In fourth quarter, with lead of 16 pts or less, and having forced opponent to punt, putting anyone back to field a punt. You are about to get the ball with a lead. No need to put anyone back and risk fumble.

12. Fielding punt inside own 10 yard line.

13. On angle tackle, getting head behind ball carrier instead of "across the bow" and in front of ball carrier.

14. Scheduling FCS opponents.

15. Lack of Division I playoffs.

16. 35 Bowl games and counting.

17. Procedure penalties, illegal formation, illegal substitution penalties, etc. Should have been much higher on list.

18. Jumbotron ads or any sort of money grubbing promotion which takes time away from band playing and compromises game day experience.

19. Conferences larger than 10 teams. Every conference opponent should be played each season.

20. Any type of playing surface other than natural grass.

slider643;842109897 said:

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Ayoob and Maynard threw many, many more passes than Cochran has snapped. Maybe their totals reach your mark of "ton of experience throwing the ball" as it does mine.

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Not in the system. Cochran has more experience shotgun snapping the ball at Cal than Ayoob had throwing the ball in Tedford's system when he arrived.

I take it you haven't seen too many practices if you think the Scout team only runs a few plays against the ones and twos. Your comment that Cochran doesn't have a lot of experience snapping the ball is far more speculative than mine -- which is based on reasonable assumptions and Tedford's statements.

The Duke!;842110008 said:

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Not in the system. Cochran has more experience shotgun snapping the ball at Cal than Ayoob had throwing the ball in Tedford's system when he arrived.

I take it you haven't seen too many practices if you think the Scout team only runs a few plays against the ones and twos. Your comment that Cochran doesn't have a lot of experience snapping the ball is far more speculative than mine -- which is based on reasonable assumptions and Tedford's statements.

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How is it that Cochran snapping in another system equates to experience while throwing passes in another system doesn't? That's ridiculous. The mechanics of throwing a ball don't change no matter what offense is being run, same as snapping the ball. If you disagree, please elaborate.

Which teams practices did you witness that the scout team ran 40 live, full speed plays more than two times a week? As I've said, I've never seen it at the collegiate level and I'm genuinely interested so please share.

I'm still waiting to hear how many live, full speed snaps a week you consider a "ton of shotgun experience". If you think 40 a week for a season is that number, than we have no argument, our standards are different.

slider643;842110013 said:

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How is it that Cochran snapping in another system equates to experience while throwing passes in another system doesn't? That's ridiculous. The mechanics of throwing a ball don't change no matter what offense is being run, same as snapping the ball. If you disagree, please elaborate.

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That's my point. If you can criticize Ayoob or Maynard for not being good at throwing a football, then you can also criticize Cochran if it turns out he is not good at snapping a football. Besides, the particulars of the system matters less in snapping than it does in running an entire offense. That's why virtually all D-1 starting centers are nearly flawless at snapping, but very few (if any) D-1 starting QBs are nearly flawless at throwing the football.

slider643;842110013 said:

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Which teams practices did you witness that the scout team ran 40 live, full speed plays more than two times a week? As I've said, I've never seen it at the collegiate level and I'm genuinely interested so please share.

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I have seen practices at Cal, Notre Dame, Arizona, and USC in which the defense went hard against the scout team around that many times or more.

slider643;842110013 said:

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I'm still waiting to hear how many live, full speed snaps a week you consider a "ton of shotgun experience". If you think 40 a week for a season is that number, than we have no argument, our standards are different.

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Keep waiting. It's a stupid question.

Cochran has been playing center for many years. Shotgun is not a new concept for him. He ran it in high school, he received college coaching all last year and this spring, and he snapped the ball against a first team D-1 defense in practice. Other redshirt freshmen Centers have been able to snap the ball correctly and consistently, and I am hoping Matt will do this too.

At this point, it is time that he and our other centers master this skill and eliminate the high snaps. Inexperience is no longer a valid excuse. If it were, all first year starting centers would be bad at snapping. But this is not the case at other schools.

yadda yadda ... Cochran is bad ... yadda yadda ... Cochran sucks ... yadda yadda ... Cochran better do this ... yadda yadda ... woulda, coulda, shoulda ... yadda yadda ... when I was a coach .... yadda yadda ....

SonOfCalVa;842110049 said:

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yadda yadda ... Cochran is bad ... yadda yadda ... Cochran sucks ... yadda yadda ... Cochran better do this ... yadda yadda ... woulda, coulda, shoulda ... yadda yadda ... when I was a coach .... yadda yadda ....

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yadda yadda yadda ... nothing intelligent to add whatsoever so I will attack another bears fan and put words in his mouth .... yadda yadda yadda ... everything is fine ..... yadda yadda yadda .... no criticism is valid .... yadda yadda yadda .... no life ...... yadda.

The Duke!;842110056 said:

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yadda yadda yadda ... nothing intelligent to add whatsoever so I will attack another bears fan and put words in his mouth .... yadda yadda yadda ... everything is fine ..... yadda yadda yadda .... no criticism is valid .... yadda yadda yadda .... no life ...... yadda.

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:woohoo :rollinglaugh:

:gobears:

The Duke!;842110040 said:

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That's my point. If you can criticize Ayoob or Maynard for not being good at throwing a football, then you can also criticize Cochran if it turns out he is not good at snapping a football. Besides, the particulars of the system matters less in snapping than it does in running an entire offense. That's why virtually all D-1 starting centers are nearly flawless at snapping, but very few (if any) D-1 starting QBs are nearly flawless at throwing the football.

I have seen practices at Cal, Notre Dame, Arizona, and USC in which the defense went hard against the scout team around that many times or more.

Keep waiting. It's a stupid question.

Cochran has been playing center for many years. Shotgun is not a new concept for him. He ran it in high school, he received college coaching all last year and this spring, and he snapped the ball against a first team D-1 defense in practice. Other redshirt freshmen Centers have been able to snap the ball correctly and consistently, and I am hoping Matt will do this too.

At this point, it is time that he and our other centers master this skill and eliminate the high snaps. Inexperience is no longer a valid excuse. If it were, all first year starting centers would be bad at snapping. But this is not the case at other schools.

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Ayoob and Maynard had far more live, full speed throws in college, high school and probably before that compared to the number of shotgun snaps that Cochran has had. Cochran has, by your own words, occasionally snapped in the shotgun in high school and has one year of scout team experience in college.

I've been to several weeks of USC practice under Carrol (I knew a coach on the staff) and never once did I see 40+ full speed scout team snaps in a practice and never once did I see full speed scout team more than twice in a week. I'll take your word on the other teams.

You must also be counting all the positioning and recognition that the 1s and 2s do against the scout team. I don't. That's like counting batting practice in baseball. Everyone crushes in BP, doesn't mean you'll hit in the game.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think one season on a scout team and the occasional shotgun snap in high school equates to "a ton of shotgun experience" while you do. As I said before, our standards are different and we won't ever agree on it.

slider643;842110070 said:

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Ayoob and Maynard had far more live, full speed throws in college, high school and probably before that compared to the number of shotgun snaps that Cochran has had. Cochran has, by your own words, occasionally snapped in the shotgun in high school and has one year of scout team experience in college.

I've been to several weeks of USC practice under Carrol (I knew a coach on the staff) and never once did I see 40+ full speed scout team snaps in a practice and never once did I see full speed scout team more than twice in a week. I'll take your word on the other teams.

You must also be counting all the positioning and recognition that the 1s and 2s do against the scout team. I don't. That's like counting batting practice in baseball. Everyone crushes in BP, doesn't mean you'll hit in the game.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think one season on a scout team and the occasional shotgun snap in high school equates to "a ton of shotgun experience" while you do. As I said before, our standards are different and we won't ever agree on it.

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We will agree to disagree on his experience. But what do you think constitutes reasonable expectations vis-a-vis snapping the football this year?