My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

Absolutely. Those scores are higher than the average. With a good GPA and a good personal statement, she is clearly in The running.

SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

She's definitely in the mix. A lock for Davis

UrsaMajor;842106884 said:

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SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

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this must have changed since i applied

brcal69;842106878 said:

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Absolutely. Those scores are higher than the average. With a good GPA and a good personal statement, she is clearly in The running.

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Can she defend the deep ball?

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

For her choice no.2, it would depend on your/her ethnicity?!?

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

UrsaMajor;842106884 said:

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SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

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really? I don't know about that. SAT II was seriously de-emphasized at some point. It doesn't even appear on the UC admission criteria page now.

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/how-applications-reviewed/index.html

Now 15 years ago when I applied, UC absolutely did emphasize the SAT II to the point it counted more than the SAT I. In fact, they put everyone on a 8000 point scale, multiplied GPA by 1000 (capped at 4.0), and added SAT I + 3 SAT II tests. 50% were admitted on that score alone, then 'comprehensive review' meant adding additional points to that score... ie points for service, sports, attending a poor high school, etc. It can't be too different today, though they may add point in different ways with more for other factors and less for GPA and SAT - there's just no way to attempt to look at 70k applications and not have some kind of numerical scoring system.

The pertinent question for gocalbear is what is his daughter's UC GPA - the weighted one with counting only soph and junior classes that are UC approved (that's what trips up a lot of people). If it's a 4.0+, the chances are good, but not guaranteed IMO. At that point all the little things will make a difference - including taking a strong AP courseload SR year. For sure I'd check the UCSD, UCSB and UCLA boxes... If she is interested in biology, and has a strong performance of science coursework and some extra-curriculars to help that, it could be a huge boost (though bear in mind the huge number of students who want to do premed via biology also might be looking at that angle).

I'm with davidson in that I don't know if grades matter most. In some respect they do (if you are well under 4.0), but so many kids have AP classes where a soft B is a 4.0 that GPA provides little differentiation when they are capped and half the incoming class has a 4.0+.

Berkeley's "comprehensive review" policy deemphasizes SAT scores compared to many other schools. They strive to examine the totality of the applicant's achievements. That being said, high scores certainly help. But they must be combined with grades, service, extracurriculars, and an outstanding personal statement.

Although you usually want a SAT I score around 2250 nowadays, it always helps to have 750+ SAT II subject scores.

RenoBear90;842106896 said:

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For her choice no.2, it would depend on your/her ethnicity?!?

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

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So last century.

California Prop 209 ended affirmative action at the UCs in 1996, i.e when Mooch was our coach.

UrsaMajor;842106884 said:

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SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

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Do you need recommendations nowadays? I didn't have to have them in the mid-90s.

The Duke!;842106906 said:

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Berkeley's "comprehensive review" policy deemphasizes SAT scores compared to many other schools. They strive to examine the totality of the applicant's achievements. That being said, high scores certainly help. But they must be combined with grades, service, extracurriculars, and an outstanding personal statement.

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I'm a little more cynical than you I'm guessing, but I think a lot of this is lip service so that they admissions department can tell people to get off their backs since it's really really hard to argue with them when using a more qualitative policy. Cal is still a big public school and is not going to be able to run as fine a comb through the applications to get all the absolute diamonds in the rough based on their statements and recommendations.

Wasn't her choice 2 Stanford?, to which it wouldn't apply?

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

That is a great score, more than good enough. However, those were almost exactly, actually slightly lower, than my eldest daughters' scores 4 years ago. She did not get into Cal, but was admitted to UCSB and UCSC (didn't apply to Davis or UCLA) and only got into UCSD on appeal.

For those who think ethnicity counts, again, she did not get into Cal even on appeal and she was one of only 40 African Americans in her UCSD freshman class of approx. 5,000.

GPA and class rank matter A LOT (she attended the high school that sends more students to Cal than any other). Ethnicity ZERO. Extracurriculars little (she swam competitively, she won the Fremont Science Fair, her art won a silver Medal at the Alameda County Fair, she was a paid speaker for Stanford's Education department...).

If you really want your daughter to get into Cal the best thing might be to transfer to a school (poor/rural/remote) that sends few kids to Cal where she will be in the top 1% of her class. I am semi-serious (I believe half the class is admitted based on "Local Context").

The good news is even if she doesn't get into Cal, most of the UCs are pretty great these days. I really think Santa Cruz is under-appreciated and your daughter is a lock for there at a minimum. A friend's son started there, transferred to Cal (based on choosing a major that was not offered at Santa Cruz but was at Cal) and graduated Cal with honors. Good luck!

ColoradoBear1;842106930 said:

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I'm a little more cynical than you I'm guessing, but I think a lot of this is lip service so that they admissions department can tell people to get off their backs since it's really really hard to argue with them when using a more qualitative policy. Cal is still a big public school and is not going to be able to run as fine a comb through the applications to get all the absolute diamonds in the rough based on their statements and recommendations.

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You would think so, but I was actually called from the admissions office with honest-to-God questions about a few of my answers. Nothing bad, they were just curious. They wanted more details, and I was asked to write up a couple paragraphs and submit that to them asap. Meaning they took A LOT of time to pick through my application and even more time still to call me personally, and then read my additional work thereafter.

This was in the 2000's. The game has changed.

socaliganbear;842106944 said:

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You would think so, but I was actually called from the admissions office with honest-to-God questions about a few of my answers. Nothing bad, they were just curious. They wanted more details, and I was asked to write up a couple paragraphs and submit that to them asap. Meaning they took A LOT of time to pick through my application and even more time still to call me personally, and then read my additional work thereafter.

This was in the 2000's. The game has changed.

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Interesting - never heard anything like that before. Not trying to get too personal, but do you think that you were 'average' for that incoming class? It could be they do this for apps on the bubble, but still direct a good portion to be admitted (or rejected) based on something more quantifiable.

I'm on the record as saying some of these comprehensive measure of admitting students encourage some really big wastes of time in college bound students... like filling up days being average at random clubs and sports and other activities. You need a mix IMO - so admitting some based on service/clubs/etc, some to give opportunities to those not as qualified but that being due to a poor high schools (or whatever other reason) and some who are well prepared to hit the ground running and excel (and in the more analytical fields, that's often going to mean strong classwork and yes high SAT scores) and also of course some good students who are athletically gifted.... put them all together and that's a good school.

socaliganbear;842106944 said:

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You would think so, but I was actually called from the admissions office with honest-to-God questions about a few of my answers. Nothing bad, they were just curious. They wanted more details, and I was asked to write up a couple paragraphs and submit that to them asap. Meaning they took A LOT of time to pick through my application and even more time still to call me personally, and then read my additional work thereafter.

This was in the 2000's. The game has changed.

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Considering the sheer number of applicants to the UC system and the length of essays and time it takes to read them I honestly think that most personal statements aren't even read if your numerical stats will boost you into acceptance range. I think bubble candidates must be the only time the written apps are read and even then it's probably really brief.

StillNoStanfurdium;842106955 said:

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Considering the sheer number of applicants to the UC system and the length of essays and time it takes to read them I honestly think that most personal statements aren't even read if your numerical stats will boost you into acceptance range. I think bubble candidates must be the only time the written apps are read and even then it's probably really brief.

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Yes, I think that is the way it works.

StillNoStanfurdium;842106955 said:

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Considering the sheer number of applicants to the UC system and the length of essays and time it takes to read them I honestly think that most personal statements aren't even read if your numerical stats will boost you into acceptance range. I think bubble candidates must be the only time the written apps are read and even then it's probably really brief.

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I also think a lot are written by consultants

ColoradoBear1;842106954 said:

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Interesting - never heard anything like that before. Not trying to get too personal, but do you think that you were 'average' for that incoming class? It could be they do this for apps on the bubble, but still direct a good portion to be admitted (or rejected) based on something more quantifiable.

I'm on the record as saying some of these comprehensive measure of admitting students encourage some really big wastes of time in college bound students... like filling up days being average at random clubs and sports and other activities.

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Well by the time I was applying the status quo of super applicants was in full effect so I might have been average. My grades were very good (+4.2), from a really good high school, and had a lot of AP classes. I think the apprehension may have been in my SAT scores which were good, but not spectacularly impressive, and lack of unique activities. I think they needed some more selling on a another smart kid from a good private school with good grades. Looking back on it now, I doubt I'd get in, my app just wasn't interesting enough.

calumnus;842106937 said:

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That is a great score, more than good enough. However, those were almost exactly, actually slightly lower, than my eldest daughters' scores 4 years ago. She did not get into Cal, but was admitted to UCSB and UCSC (didn't apply to Davis or UCLA) and only got into UCSD on appeal.

For those who think ethnicity counts, again, she did not get into Cal even on appeal and she was one of only 40 African Americans in her UCSD freshman class of approx. 5,000.

GPA and class rank matter A LOT (she attended the high school that sends more students to Cal than any other). Ethnicity ZERO. Extracurriculars little (she swam competitively, she won the Fremont Science Fair, her art won a silver Medal at the Alameda County Fair, she was a paid speaker for Stanford's Education department...).

If you really want your daughter to get into Cal the best thing might be to transfer to a school (poor/rural/remote) that sends few kids to Cal where she will be in the top 1% of her class. I am semi-serious (I believe half the class is admitted based on "Local Context").

The good news is even if she doesn't get into Cal, most of the UCs are pretty great these days. I really think Santa Cruz is under-appreciated and your daughter is a lock for there at a minimum. A friend's son started there, transferred to Cal (based on choosing a major that was not offered at Santa Cruz but was at Cal) and graduated Cal with honors. Good luck!

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Leadership matters. School President, team captain, etc. are a plus, or at least so I have been told. But you need to make the cut on grades and class standing and to a lesser degree, SAT scores, initially. Its a lot harder to get into Cal these days.

ColoradoBear1;842106930 said:

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I'm a little more cynical than you I'm guessing, but I think a lot of this is lip service so that they admissions department can tell people to get off their backs since it's really really hard to argue with them when using a more qualitative policy. Cal is still a big public school and is not going to be able to run as fine a comb through the applications to get all the absolute diamonds in the rough based on their statements and recommendations.

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You would be surprised. I have met some amazing admissions officers at Cal, and some very bad ones at some of the other places I've been. Cal takes every application very seriously.

Thanks for all the great information guys! By the way, her GPA is 4.19 and we are Asian American.

Look like the only thing she needs is a good recommendation letter from someone.

:cheer

UrsaMajor;842106884 said:

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SAT scores are the least important criterion. Grades matter most (and the # of honors and AP classes attempted). SAT II is second (i.e., her Biology score), personal statement is probably third, and the base SAT fourth (as long as it isn't low enough to be disqualifying). Hers are high enough to be helpful, but grades, recommendations, etc. will be the determining factor.

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Undergraduate Admissions reviews holistically in the individual context of each applicant. The above information is inaccurate. There is no ratings scale. All criteria weighs equally. SAT II s are no longer even required but highly suggested for applicants to the colleges of engineering or chemistry.

gocalbear;842106992 said:

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Thanks for all the great information guys! By the way, her GPA is 4.19 and we are Asian American.

Look like the only thing she needs is a good recommendation letter from someone.

:cheer

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She has very good test scores and a solid GPA. Letters of rec are not required. Go to the source to get the facts. Please don't rely on other's opinions. http://admissions.berkeley.edu/

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

If she fills the application out saying her parents didn't go to college:SHE'S IN AT CAL

gocalbear;842106876 said:

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My daughter just recived her SAT scores today and I was wondering if they are good enough to get accepted into Berkeley?

Her 3 top schools of choice are:
1. Berkeley
2. Stanford
3. Davis

Her SAT scores are:

680 Reading
740 Math
700 Writing

760 Biology M

Any suggestion would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help!

---

My two youngest sons had GPA's over 4 with lots of AP classes and SAT's over 1400 (only two scores back then), and they didn't get into CAL. I think the key thing that's missing is what major she wants to get into. All of the engineeriing majors are impacted so it's much tougher to get into those than some of the liberal arts majors.

Good luck

When I applied to Cal I had a 4.5 GPA, and a 2090 on my SATs. I got in more because of my gpa then anything else. Berkeley really likes seeing students take a lot of AP and honor classes and do well in them. I took 10 AP tests and a couple honor classes.

A question for those who went to elite high schools:

Is there, for instance, 1 AP History class and 1 AP Language Class and so on and so forth?

Or are there multiple AP classes on the same subject?

For instance, at my "urban" high school we had 1 AP History class that we had to compete to get into. So the best 25 got in the class. And the same goes for a lot of other subjects (though we really didn't have that many AP subjects).

What I'm asking is that at a "smart" high school like say North Hollywood High, if there are like 300 really, really smart people in a class, can only 25 of them take AP History (or any other subject)? Or are there a number of AP classes to accommodate all the "smart" people in the same subject?

Am I making sense?

;842107046 said:

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A question for those who went to elite high schools:

Is there, for instance, 1 AP History class and 1 AP Language Class and so on and so forth?

Or are there multiple AP classes on the same subject?

For instance, at my "urban" high school we had 1 AP History class that we had to compete to get into. So the best 25 got in the class. And the same goes for a lot of other subjects (though we really didn't have that many AP subjects).

What I'm asking is that at a "smart" high school like say North Hollywood High, if there are like 300 really, really smart people in a class, can only 25 of them take AP History (or any other subject)? Or are there a number of AP classes to accommodate all the "smart" people in the same subject?

Am I making sense?

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This is from my old school's website:. After comprehensive study and community dialogue, Crossroads School decided that the Advanced Placement (AP) program did not best serve our students as an advanced level curriculum and compromised our ability to fulfill commitments made in our school philosophy.
Close

We, therefore, decided to replace AP courses with our own internally designed and University of California approved Crossroads Advanced Studies (CAS) courses. Students who take these classes will still receive AP/Honors credit and may take the relevant AP exam, should they choose. We believe that this change, one that many nationally recognized independent schools are making, will assure a more stimulating, challenging and relevant academic program for all our students.

Many other private schools have also decided to drop "AP".

I don't rember space being an issue, but I don't think everything was offered every semester. I think the classes rotated.

If she doesn't get into Cal look into a local community college.

I pretty much failed Highschool. I think I graduated with a 1.9 or 2.0 (never took the SAT), but went to DVC and got into Cal with a 3.8. I had absolutely no extra curricular activities and no long list of rewards that kids who get into cal out of highschool tend to have. IMO getting good grades at DVC was way easier than it was in highschool

Robocheme;842107016 said:

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My two youngest sons had GPA's over 4 with lots of AP classes and SAT's over 1400 (only two scores back then), and they didn't get into CAL. I think the key thing that's missing is what major she wants to get into. All of the engineeriing majors are impacted so it's much tougher to get into those than some of the liberal arts majors.

Good luck

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Very good point. Applying to the COE is a big risk (especially EECS) since they don't bump you down for L&S consideration.

One possible backdoor entry possibility to explore, if she is interested in the sciences or engineering, is the college of chemistry. For some reason, the college used to get less applicants and might be easier to get into (chemistry is also offered through L&S). It looks like there is a program in Chemical Biology that has a lot of lower division requirements that could set one up to transfer into any science and some engineering programs, if the program isn't what one wanted.

It would also set one up for grad school in chemistry, biology, and biomedical fields very well. A lot of advanced biology research deals heavily with chemistry or even physics. It also would set one up well for pharm school, medical school, or dentistry with the right electives. Or heck, even set one up for a law degree and a career in patent law. (just going off of the mention of Biology SAT II here).

http://chemistry.berkeley.edu/student_info/undergrad_info/degree_programs/chem_bio_major/index.php

Downside is that it's going to be more math heavy than a L&S bio/premed path. But if one's good at math, that might not be a bad thing. From the College of Chemistry, you can free up a couple more lower division electives with AP classes, it appears.

ColoradoBear1;842107086 said:

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Very good point. Applying to the COE is a big risk (especially EECS) since they don't bump you down for L&S consideration.

One possible backdoor entry possibility to explore, if she is interested in the sciences or engineering, is the college of chemistry. For some reason, the college used to get less applicants and might be easier to get into (chemistry is also offered through L&S). It looks like there is a program in Chemical Biology that has a lot of lower division requirements that could set one up to transfer into any science and some engineering programs, if the program isn't what one wanted.

It would also set one up for grad school in chemistry, biology, and biomedical fields very well. A lot of advanced biology research deals heavily with chemistry or even physics. It also would set one up well for pharm school, medical school, or dentistry with the right electives. Or heck, even set one up for a law degree and a career in patent law. (just going off of the mention of Biology SAT II here).

http://chemistry.berkeley.edu/student_info/undergrad_info/degree_programs/chem_bio_major/index.php

Downside is that it's going to be more math heavy than a L&S bio/premed path. But if one's good at math, that might not be a bad thing. From the College of Chemistry, you can free up a couple more lower division electives with AP classes, it appears.

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I went through the College of Chemistry with a ChemE degree. Essentially, there are 3 majors in College of Chem: Chemistry, ChemE, and Chem Bio.

Chemistry is for students who wants to eventually move onto research and stay in academia, chem E is for engineering students who wants to be in Chem, and Chem Bio is like the Integrative Biology or Molecular Cell Biology major on campus, but with more emphasis on Chemistry.

I have plenty of friends who did Chem Bio and moved onto pharm school, med schools, etc.

Judging from how hard it is to get in. I would say College of Engineering is hardest, college of chem and college of L&S is a toss up. Though be warned, for College of Engineering, certain majors like EECS do NOT accept transfers (unless its a special case). I wouldn't actually say College of Chemistry is a backdoor, maybe not as impacted as College of Engineering, but definitely on par, if not better than all of the other colleges IMO.

Oh also College of Chem is renowned in the world with one of the most respected history in the field, I mean just look at the periodic table.

There is a lot of well-meaning but mistaken information in this thread, although there are a few who appear to be familiar with the current process. Go to the PM that I sent you.