In baseball, most pitchers are pulled a bit after 100 pitches are tossed. The reasons are obvious. With arm fatigue, velocity decreases and so does accuracy.

Does anyone have any opinion on whether 60+ passes in a game have the same affect on a quarterback - especially the effects on a relatively thin 18 year old arm?

Understandably a pitcher throws each pitch fairly hard, while a QB can gently lob some shorter passes such as on screens. But a football is a whole lot heavier than a baseball.

Can this be one reason we saw the INTs in the second half as well as tipped passes? The ball just doesn't have the same kind of zip as early in the game. And loss of accuracy can be critical at the end of close games.

It would be kind of cool to have a relief QB when the game might allow.
These guys throw that many passes each day all week in practice, so the arm strength is probably pretty good.

in the opinion of Goff, No
I'll take his word for it and let Franklin decide.

No. He throws probably 200 a day in practice, if not more.

60+ passes isn't too tiring, but it means we need a much more effective run game. If we have to throw 60 times a game, it doesn't bode well for the outcome. The passing game will be more potent with a real running threat.

Overall fatigue always plays a role, but I mean, by that same token should a star RB only carry the ball 10 times as opposed to 20 because fatigue limits effectiveness just somewhat?

On another note: 100 pitch count thing is more of an issue of safety
than effectiveness. Many MLB starters could pitch 120, heck some maybe even 150 at a high level. Verlander throwing 98 at 120 pitches is one example.

If he was firing the football for all 60 throws, I would say maybe.

Vandalus;842166532 said:

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No. He throws probably 200 a day in practice, if not more.

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Thank you for shutting down this thread with facts and reason

concernedparent;842166549 said:

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Overall fatigue always plays a role, but I mean, by that same token should a star RB only carry the ball 10 times as opposed to 20 because fatigue limits effectiveness just somewhat?

On another note: 100 pitch count thing is more of an issue of safety
than effectiveness. Many MLB starters could pitch 120, heck some maybe even 150 at a high level. Verlander throwing 98 at 120 pitches is one example.

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Timmy 140+ no hitter.

But did not look to good his next time out.

Goff said he didn't realize he had thrown that much, which makes sense because I didn't realize he had thrown that much and I doubt most of realized it, unless they were counting.

The interceptions were interspersed with some of his best passes of the game. And the zip on the ball seemed to get better over time. That last interception had plenty of zip, despite what Goff said. The interception was due to an all conference safety making a great play. If anything it was a bad decision. But it wasn't a bad pass.

Goff is lanky, not thin. There's a difference. Kaepernick is lanky also. Lanky people have more strength than is physically apparent. Goff does need to gain some lower body strength. But his upper body is OK.

PapaBear93;842166497 said:

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In baseball, most pitchers are pulled a bit after 100 pitches are tossed. The reasons are obvious. With arm fatigue, velocity decreases and so does accuracy.

Does anyone have any opinion on whether 60+ passes in a game have the same affect on a quarterback - especially the effects on a relatively thin 18 year old arm?

Understandably a pitcher throws each pitch fairly hard, while a QB can gently lob some shorter passes such as on screens. But a football is a whole lot heavier than a baseball.

Can this be one reason we saw the INTs in the second half as well as tipped passes? The ball just doesn't have the same kind of zip as early in the game. And loss of accuracy can be critical at the end of close games.

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1. Most pitchers could pitch way more than that in a day, and they used to all the time. I think it is more of an issue of repetitive wear and tear where you do that over a 162 game season. When Billy Martin managed the A's, one year he had a fabulous starting rotation and a horrible bullpen. He pitched those guys into the ground that year. They did fine that year, but some of them were never the same, and they pretty much all suffered the next season.

2. The tips were an issue all game. Clearly something needs to be done about it. Not sure what the issue was, as I wasn't watching for cause, but it wasn't fatigue.

3. The third interception was on experience. The veteran safety flat out baited him into it. Goff read the safety going to the center of the field. The safety intentionally moved that way and then immediately doubled back. Hard to blame a true frosh for getting sucked in like that. No one in his experience would have been shrewd enough or athletic enough to pull that off.

Not sure if he got tired. His first half was pretty good, not great. (great for a true frosh). He then caught fire in the third quarter. Then he struggled in the fourth. Don't know if that was due to fatigue.

People need to realize, Goff was not only in high school last year, he was in an extremely noncompetitive league. He has never seen anything like Northwestern in a game. I think he reacted very well under the circumstances. Unfortunately, they don't give you "good for a true frosh" points on the scoreboard.

I actually think that game is going to be a microcosm for the season for both Goff and the team. Sometimes they will excite us. Sometimes they will infuriate us. We will probably end the season without being much over .500 if at all, but feel like we are a young team that can get better.

heartofthebear;842166564 said:

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Goff said he didn't realize he had thrown that much, which makes sense because I didn't realize he had thrown that much and I doubt most of realized it, unless they were counting.

The interceptions were interspersed with some of his best passes of the game. And the zip on the ball seemed to get better over time. That last interception had plenty of zip, despite what Goff said. The interception was due to an all conference safety making a great play. If anything it was a bad decision. But it wasn't a bad pass.

Goff is lanky, not thin. There's a difference. Kaepernick is lanky also. Lanky people have more strength than is physically apparent. Goff does need to gain some lower body strength. But his upper body is OK.

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Kaep's got huge biceps though, whereas Goff has a little bit of that noodle-arm syndrome that Maynard had (though his arm strength seems adequate). Then again, Goff is only 18 whereas Maynard was something like 22 or 23, so I'd expect those guns to get a little bigger over the years.

a pitcher airs out his arm almost every pitch...and at least 2/3 all out on breaking balls and the like...a QB is at 50% usage on what, 80% of his passes, and less than that on swing passes?

Vandalus;842166532 said:

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No. He throws probably 200 a day in practice, if not more.

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What!

But not during the season right?

pingpong2;842166582 said:

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Kaep's got huge biceps though, whereas Goff has a little bit of that noodle-arm syndrome that Maynard had (though his arm strength seems adequate). Then again, Goff is only 18 whereas Maynard was something like 22 or 23, so I'd expect those guns to get a little bigger over the years.

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Kap has big arms now. He didnt before...

Otoh, Kap REALLY got better at actual throwing part of the position as he got stronger...


Also Goff blows the wheels off Kap as a freshman re throwing. No contest.

Is 60 throws tiring? Reminds me of a comment about an $C running back (I think OJ) carrying the ball 35+ times a game years ago. And either he, or I think the coach, said "No Problem, It is not that heavy," or something to that effect. I would hope our QB can throw 60 times with rest while the D is on the field in between throws. This guy is 18, not ready for section GG, H or HH quite yet.

I don't throws are as much issue as first game, and pressure both physical and mental. It's also the longest game he's ever played.

nah theyre used to it. i dont think he'll throw as many in future games. hopefully we'll run the ball better

Sounds like 60 throws really isn't that tiring, but it would be kind of cool if college FB really did work that way.

Imagine Cal bringing in its version of Mariano Rivera to close out an upset win over Oregon or furd after Goff leads the Bear Raid to a 2 TD lead.

Most of those passes were dink and dunk to medium passes. 60 passes are no big deal. Pitchers are throwing as hard as they can most of the time or putting great strain with curves. Apples and oranges.

pingpong2;842166582 said:

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Kaep's got huge biceps though, whereas Goff has a little bit of that noodle-arm syndrome that Maynard had (though his arm strength seems adequate). Then again, Goff is only 18 whereas Maynard was something like 22 or 23, so I'd expect those guns to get a little bigger over the years.

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Noodle arm??? Where in the world do you get that idea? Thin arms do not mean Noodle arm.