the AD weighs in on academics (tl;dr)

7,425 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Oski87
SiniCal
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a breaking news email was received a few minutes ago..

Quote:

Dear Friend of Cal Athletics:

By now, you have most likely seen or heard about our Graduation Success Rate (GSR) numbers published by the NCAA last week. While the majority of our teams and student-athletes produced exceptional results, two of our programs fell short of our standards and expectations. Before I describe all that we are and will be doing to address this issue, I want to provide a few more details about the data.

Specifically, our football team had a GSR of 44 percent and our men’s basketball team was at 38 percent. Ultimately, I am accountable for these results, and it is my responsibility to identify and address short-comings that have contributed to this unacceptable level of academic achievement. With that said, since evidence surfaced of declining academic results for these two teams, we have been far from complacent. We have already begun to see the results of recent corrective actions that should produce higher scores in the coming years. And it’s not just about numbers. What we are really talking about is the extent to which we are recruiting and fully supporting the kind of young men and women who are ready, able and motivated to take advantage of the educational opportunities offered by this university.

It is important to understand that the recent GSR figures do not suggest that our student-athletes are failing in their classwork; rather they are often choosing to pursue other interests, such as a professional athletic career, before meeting their academic requirements to graduate. All of us understand the value of a Berkeley degree, and it is up to us to establish the expectation and the culture that encourages our student-athletes to graduate.

The latest GSR data is based on freshmen who entered school between 2003-06. Given this lag in reporting, we were able to identify factors contributing to the decline in academic performance well before the data was released. As a result, it was two years ago that we began a concerted effort to address the issue through a number of measures designed to reverse what was a disturbing trend, particularly within our football program. Among the steps already initiated are:

holding monthly meetings with athletic department leadership, the faculty athletic representative, academic advisors and the head coach to review the team's academic improvement plan to understand and manage problems before they arise;
encouraging players to take more challenging classes earlier in their careers to avoid the distractions that can come in a final season that can keep them from finishing their degrees;
a heightened focus on recruiting prospects who are motivated and prepared to succeed academically and athletically at Cal;
the hiring of an additional academic specialist for football, bring that total to five full time personnel;
establishing policies for student-athletes in their final semester that they must graduate or leave school in good academic standing in order to continue to train at the Simpson Center or in Memorial Stadium.
Critical to this effort is the commitment from our coaching staff. From the first day Coach Dykes set foot on campus, he established standards of accountability for classroom performance. With a combination of these new expectations and our recent actions, we have seen 24 players graduate over the last year, and the team’s term GPA for the spring semester was its highest in five years and the GPA for the summer session was its highest in 10 years.

Similarly, Coach Montgomery has a long history of emphasizing the importance of academics throughout his career, and of the six seniors on the men’s basketball team the past three seasons, five have graduated and a sixth is taking one class this semester to earn his degree.

By no means should the attention on these two sports detract from the great work by so many of our student-athletes. We should all be proud that four of our teams – women’s lacrosse, women’s tennis, volleyball and women’s water polo – had perfect 100 percent graduation rates, that 16 of 23 measured sports had a GSR of at least 85 percent and that a record nine programs were over 90 percent.

These numbers provide a clear indication of where our priorities are and what can be accomplished, but it will take time to see the results of our current efforts reflected in graduation rate data.

In the months ahead I also plan on convening a university-wide task force consisting of students, faculty and leaders from Athletics and the campus administration for a review of all of the factors that impact the academic performance of our student-athlete population. While there is much that Athletics can and will do on its own, we must have a constructive and comprehensive partnership with the entire University to ensure that the admissions process, academic support programs and our campus culture are all supporting widely shared goals in terms of student-athlete achievement and experience. We cannot and will not be satisfied until we reach a 100 percent graduation rate with every one of our programs.

Your support plays a vital role and I thank you for helping to create a set of expectations that we use as guiding principles when developing programs and allocating resources for our student-athletes. I’m proud to serve as the director of athletics at one of the most prominent universities in the world – both academically and athletically – a responsibility that I take very seriously. By working together, we can look forward to supporting and building a program that strives for comprehensive excellence now and into the future.

Go Bears!



make any sense cybers? sorry, this fool couldn't tell.
NYCGOBEARS
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SiniCal;842210235 said:

a breaking news email was received a few minutes ago..




make any sense cybers? sorry, this fool couldn't tell.

I'll believe it when I see it.
ncbears
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I got it too. Notice she doesn't reference softball whose graduation rate is also ...not good. Even as Cal spent money to upgrade softball facilities.

The truth is somewhere in between the sentences and words. Except that Sandy has been AD for 9 years - and this decline happened on her watch. She couldn't tell early on whether there were problems a brewing - despite her tenure at Notre Dame? According to her letter, it took seven years for her to take action - although admittedly the letter is unclear when the decline began.
Presumably, the AD has to sign off on all scholarship offers - since I believe all players are coming in as special admits (regardless of test score or GPA- it just means they are not being accepted through the general academic pool).
hanky1
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SiniCal;842210235 said:

a breaking news email was received a few minutes ago..




make any sense cybers? sorry, this fool couldn't tell.


It's time to face the facts folks: Cal is a naturally unfriendly university to student-athletes.

We've had graduation rate problems FOREVER at Cal with football and men's basketball. These problems have spanned multiple coaches and multiple decades. The coaches and AD aren't the problem...it's the university culture and system as a whole that's the problem.
1979bear
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The players are likely giving their best. Same with the new coaches. What is the common thread to these failings? Sandy Barbour.
beelzebear
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Agree Cal isn't a friendly place for student-athletes because you don't get any breaks in class as a student athlete. Task force makes sense. A good task force will ID what other schools do well and translate it Cal. The thing is, not only is Cal a tough, sink or swim school, but it doesn't really have the option to rubber stamp graduations or move students along like private school. Also it doesn't really have a "football track" full of mick courses like some public schools with big time FB. If anyone is honest about this, that's how other schools keep on pace with GSR and APR...they game the system and the admin is for it. That however isn't the case at Cal.
Golden One
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Barbour is too damned infatuated with the minor sports, such as lacrosse, women's tennis, volleyball, and women's water polo. Seems like she is continuously talking about their championships, etc. She needs to put more focus and emphasis on football and men's basketball. Those are the only two that count in terms as sustainability of the entire athletic department. One Rose Bowl means more than 100 national championships in the minor sports. Ultimately, her success or failure hinges on the success of those two programs.
NYCGOBEARS
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Golden One;842210278 said:

Barbour is too damned infatuated with the minor sports, such as lacrosse, women's tennis, volleyball, and women's water polo. Seems like she is continuously talking about their championships, etc. She needs to put more focus and emphasis on football and men's basketball. Those are the only two that count in terms as sustainability of the entire athletic department. One Rose Bowl means more than 100 national championships in the minor sports. Ultimately, her success or failure hinges on the success of those two programs.


She's infatuated with those programs because they actually win. I do agree that she better get it together in regards to FB and BB if it isn't already too late. The big donors must be apoplectic over the latest academic news.
maxer
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NYCGOBEARS;842210280 said:

She's infatuated with those programs because they actually win. I do agree that she better get it together in regards to FB and BB if it isn't already too late. The big donors must be apoplectic over the latest academic news.


"Beacuse they win" is not a good reason. As was pointed out, in the scheme of things football and basketball carry the weight for all of these programs, and success in those two sports are crucial to the entire athletic department.

I like Sandy Barbour but if she isn't spending the vast majority of her time focused on the football program (and to a lesser extent, basketball, although it appears to be in better shape) she isn't doing what she should be. The stadium remodel and the other 27 sports aren't going to pay for themselves.
NYCGOBEARS
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maxer;842210293 said:

"Beacuse they win" is not a good reason. As was pointed out, in the scheme of things football and basketball carry the weight for all of these programs, and success in those two sports are crucial to the entire athletic department.

I like Sandy Barbour but if she isn't spending the vast majority of her time focused on the football program (and to a lesser extent, basketball, although it appears to be in better shape) she isn't doing what she should be. The stadium remodel and the other 27 sports aren't going to pay for themselves.

Isn't that what I just said?
freshfunk
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Does gsr take into account players who leave early to go pro?
dimitrig
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Cal's responsibility is to, first and foremost, recruit students who will be able to graduate given the rigorous academic environment at Cal.

If that means the football and basketball teams suck then so be it.

What is infuriating to me is that not even a majority of kids are graduating. I don't know if this is because of failings in recruiting or in academic support, but this falls squarely on the athletic department. Period.

It is very embarrassing to me that Cal's graduation rates for football and basketball are so low. It gives the impression that we are relaxing our admissions standards too much in order to recruit athletes that can compete in those sports. It is doubly embarrassing that at the same time our football team has not beaten a single conference opponent. (The basketball team has had success on the court.)

What are we are relaxing our standards for? So that we can become a laughingstock while also paying a football coach more than a Nobel Prize winner?

Sandy better figure it out and quick.
SanseiBear
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I think it does as long as they were academically eligible when they left.

Graduation Success Rate: Graduation rates are based on the IPEDS-GRS which is defined as a six-year proportion of those student-athletes who graduated versus those who entered an institution on institutional aid. In addition to the student-athlete data in the graduation-rates data, the GSR accounts for student-athletes who transfer into an institution while discounting student-athletes who separate from the institution and would have been academically eligible to compete had they returned.
GoBears58
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dimitrig;842210321 said:

Cal's responsibility is to, first and foremost, recruit students who will be able to graduate given the rigorous academic environment at Cal.

If that means the football and basketball teams suck then so be it.


bollocks. if ucla and Michigan can graduate their football players than so should we.
wifeisafurd
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hanky1;842210243 said:

It's time to face the facts folks: Cal is a naturally unfriendly university to student-athletes.

We've had graduation rate problems FOREVER at Cal with football and men's basketball. These problems have spanned multiple coaches and multiple decades. The coaches and AD aren't the problem...it's the university culture and system as a whole that's the problem.


we have certain minority share of faculty members that think Cal should be like the Ivies and are hostile to big time sports of football and basketball (to the extent they liked women's BB that probably likeness probably died with the recent success), even though football and men's basketball pay for the other sports. For the most part, the other sports have great grad rates and often have average GPAs higher than the student body average. I will say that Cal seems to have this issue more than any other school. In fact, in most schools, academics works hand in hand with athletics, especially on the fund raising side. This issue has cost more money for athletics and academics than anyone on the administrative side appreciates.

I AM NOT SURE HOW A HOSTILE FACULTY LEADS TO A POOR GRAD RATE IN TWO SPORTS HOWEVER.
wifeisafurd
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beelzebear;842210257 said:

Agree Cal isn't a friendly place for student-athletes because you don't get any breaks in class as a student athlete. Task force makes sense. A good task force will ID what other schools do well and translate it Cal. The thing is, not only is Cal a tough, sink or swim school, but it doesn't really have the option to rubber stamp graduations or move students along like private school. Also it doesn't really have a "football track" full of mick courses like some public schools with big time FB. If anyone is honest about this, that's how other schools keep on pace with GSR and APR...they game the system and the admin is for it. That however isn't the case at Cal.


The Furd football distribution of majors is almost identical to that of the student body. And everyone graduates from there (they are thinking about re-instituting the D grade), but the football players have higher GPAs than the average student. So how do they move their football students along again relative to the student body? If anything, it seems like Cal football players are steered away from hard majors like engineering. We have a disproportionate number of American Studies majors who don't graduate. Now American Studies is a real major (my relative, a Dean at another UC, in fact says its a well regarded program). But why is this the football player major? And why should football players or any other student-athletes get brakes (other than tutoring if needed) except for scheduling issues due to travel for team play? Sorry, not buying. Yes, its not ASU or the SEC, but we seem to be able to have really good students in the other sports and do well in those sports. Are you telling me academic schools like Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame, UCLA, Virgina, Texas, etc. have football or basketball track majors that Cal doesn't?
boredom
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yay pr spin. The administration has been on top of this for 2 years? And it's just a matter of taking one or two last classes? So then surely last year's football seniors graduated en masse right? Except if they had, that number would be in the email just like the 5 basketball seniors number.

The basketball numbers don't seem right either. 6 seniors from the last 3 years? I did a quick check of Scout for recruiting classes that would've been seniors in the last 3 years and came up with the below.

2009:
Bak
MSF
Smith (he started as a walkon so I don't think he counts)

2008:
Jorge
Seeley

2007:
Amoke
Kamp

If you don't count Smith, and I don't think he qualifies for GSR, then there are only 6 players total here. Amoke and Seeley transferred out so there aren't even 6 potential graduating players. Sandy is clearly counting Smith and Thurman, both walk-ons, which is disingenuous when talking about the GSR.
Phantomfan
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hanky1;842210243 said:

It's time to face the facts folks: Cal is a naturally unfriendly university to student-athletes.

We've had graduation rate problems FOREVER at Cal with football and men's basketball. These problems have spanned multiple coaches and multiple decades. The coaches and AD aren't the problem...it's the university culture and system as a whole that's the problem.


Then why are numbers getting worse at Cal?
The Duke!
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wifeisafurd;842210332 said:

we have certain minority share of faculty members that think Cal should be like the Ivies and are hostile to big time sports of football and basketball (to the extent they liked women's BB that probably likeness probably died with the recent success), even though football and men's basketball pay for the other sports. For the most part, the other sports have great grad rates and often have average GPAs higher than the student body average. I will say that Cal seems to have this issue more than any other school. In fact, in most schools, academics works hand in hand with athletics, especially on the fund raising side. This issue has cost more money for athletics and academics than anyone on the administrative side appreciates.

I AM NOT SURE HOW A HOSTILE FACULTY LEADS TO A POOR GRAD RATE IN TWO SPORTS HOWEVER.


Every school has a portion of faculty that wants to get rid of intercollegiate athletics entirely.

My school's IAD generates a huge profit, which actually ends up supporting the academic side of the university. And our football program graduates nearly all of its student athletes. So you would think the faculty would be completely on board. But there are still several notable faculty members that resent the fact that football players stay in a hotel the night before home games and who bring up Univ. of Chicago's approach quite a bit. This is just how universities are. There are always professors who understandably resent the amount of money and attention paid to auxiliary things (sports, parties, administration salaries, etc.) and how they distract from the core mission of the university (i.e. what they devote their lives to doing).

Cal's faculty really isn't any different in this area. The only difference, as far as I can tell, is that Cal has one grandstanding attention-whore (Barsky), who is really good at getting his name in the paper.

But football and basketball players don't take his classes. So I don't see how it matters.
RealDrew2
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Interesting that the gsr for football reflects the time when the team was really good. Would you take those years back. Honest answers please
GB54
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wifeisafurd;842210332 said:

we have certain minority share of faculty members that think Cal should be like the Ivies and are hostile to big time sports of football and basketball (to the extent they liked women's BB that probably likeness probably died with the recent success), even though football and men's basketball pay for the other sports. For the most part, the other sports have great grad rates and often have average GPAs higher than the student body average. I will say that Cal seems to have this issue more than any other school. In fact, in most schools, academics works hand in hand with athletics, especially on the fund raising side. This issue has cost more money for athletics and academics than anyone on the administrative side appreciates.

I AM NOT SURE HOW A HOSTILE FACULTY LEADS TO A POOR GRAD RATE IN TWO SPORTS HOWEVER.


It doesn't but the comparisons of football and basketball to other sports is also not helpful. Who plays the other sports? A lot are suburban kids with good academic profiles who use this and their sport to get a quality education. I doubt that entering students in volleyball, soccer, gymnastics etc have a combined SAT verbal and math of 1000 and come from under performing schools but have academic profiles closer to the student body at large. The reason football and basketball players don't do as well is because there is a large gap between their academic preparation and performance and the rest of the student body
ncbears
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What I don't understand is that good football and basketball players should have the skill sets to be good students. What do players do to improve? Practice and a dedication to practice. Well, that's studying. They also study film and memorize situations and inclinations and in a game use that knowledge to make predictions and act upon them. Sounds like what you do in an academic class. They learn a "playbook". Now, the football and basketball preparation does not necessarily involve writing papers - and so not all football skills translate easily.

Also, the women's basketball team seems to do okay with apr and gsr. And if you watch thisiscalbasketball.com, you know that the women on the basketball team do not all come from upper class suburbs.
orindabear74
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http://www.contracostatimes.com/editorial
SchadenBear
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wifeisafurd;842210332 said:

we have certain minority share of faculty members that think Cal should be like the Ivies and are hostile to big time sports of football and basketball (to the extent they liked women's BB that probably likeness probably died with the recent success), even though football and men's basketball pay for the other sports. For the most part, the other sports have great grad rates and often have average GPAs higher than the student body average. I will say that Cal seems to have this issue more than any other school. In fact, in most schools, academics works hand in hand with athletics, especially on the fund raising side. This issue has cost more money for athletics and academics than anyone on the administrative side appreciates.

I AM NOT SURE HOW A HOSTILE FACULTY LEADS TO A POOR GRAD RATE IN TWO SPORTS HOWEVER.


I'd venture that it's a lot easier to slide and get by at Cal if you are White rather than Black.
Bobodeluxe
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SchadenBear;842210390 said:

I'd venture that it's a lot easier to slide and get by at Cal if you are White rather than Black.


Go on?
The Duke!
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ncbears;842210383 said:

What I don't understand is that good football and basketball players should have the skill sets to be good students.


Many of the best teams also have very good academic stats. We shouldn't create a false dilemma between the two. When a coaching staff instills discipline and accountability, it carries over into both arenas.
OldBlue1999
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wifeisafurd;842210333 said:

Are you telling me academic schools like Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame, UCLA, Virgina, Texas, etc. have football or basketball track majors that Cal doesn't?


Who cares what other schools do? Each school has its own unique set of values, challenges, advantages, etc. Cal is Cal. It's a simple question: Does Cal want to do everything (within the "rules") it can to maximize its chances of winning, or not.

As to "why football and basketball are different," it's simple: MONEY. Those kids, particularly the really good ones, are on the cusp of millions of dollars if they play their cars right and maybe get a little lucky. It's elitist and hypocritical to blame them for focusing on that goal and having different "values" than normal students do. Virtually every "normal" student would do the exact same thing if given the opportunity.

How about a "buisiness for professional athletes" major that teaches the basic concepts but emphasizes managing personal wealth?

How about a "pre-law for professional athletes" major that focuses on contract provisions and negotiations?

How about a "communications (sorry, media studies) for athletes" that focuses on public speaking, PR and social media with an introduction to broadcasting?

How about an online degree program for athletes only so they can finish and graduate more easily within the 6 year window?

The possibilities are virtually endless if Cal had any desire to do these types of things and could--just for once--think A LITTLE outside the box.

These kids are different and deserve special treatment because they can be great brand ambassadors for the school IF they have a positive experience that builds loyalty. This goes for all sports, just look at Alex and Missy and Natalie, but the fact is in our society there are more fame opportunities for football and basketball players than almost any other profession.

The bottom line here is that Cal should want to attract these types of students because they can help Cal in many ways. And last I checked athletics has always been part of the well-rounded citizen who is the purported goal of an "enlightenment education."

Oh and PS it's no secret why American Studies is the major of choice for athletes: it's interdisciplinary and has more leeway than most re course selection.
soefeil
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SchadenBear;842210390 said:

I'd venture that it's a lot easier to slide and get by at Cal if you are White rather than Black.


What?
TheSouseFamily
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The Duke!;842210401 said:

Many of the best teams also have very good academic stats. We shouldn't create a false dilemma between the two. When a coaching staff instills discipline and accountability, it carries over into both arenas.


Unrelatedly, it wasn't long ago that Bruin fans were complaining about their (alleged) built-in disadvantage to Cal that limited their competitiveness on the field because of the apparent need to recruit guys who can get through a tougher admissions process. They argued that Cal coddled athletes by having special majors basically set up for athletes, something not available to UCLA athletes. We don't hear too much of that since Mora came on board and started winning games and we started losing games, do we?
Ace4eVer
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I hate the "pursue other interests" line. It sounds like we're the only school in the country that has players heading to the NFL early, when thats clearly not the case. It'd be fine if we were holding to our own standard of graduation, but when you come in last relative to every other BCS school it's just another excuse.

I also like how she noted that they flagged this 2 years ago. Which means that we won't really see results until about 2021. That's great, except that our APR was plummeting this whole time and is a good indicator of GSR. I can't believe that Cal was waiting on this report due to it "lagging" either. I think someone at the university should be able to get a rough number of students who are graduating, who truly intend to graduate, and who don't care about graduating. Being last might be a surprise, but the percentage shouldn't be.

I'm pretty disappointed in this email. It is better than going silent, but again come the excuses. If the APR declines again we need a new approach.
hanky1
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TheSouseFamily;842210409 said:

Unrelatedly, it wasn't long ago that Bruin fans were complaining about their (alleged) built-in disadvantage to Cal that limited their competitiveness on the field because of the apparent need to recruit guys who can get through a tougher admissions process. They argued that Cal coddled athletes by having special majors basically set up for athletes, something not available to UCLA athletes. We don't hear too much of that since Mora came on board and started winning games and we started losing games, do we?


Football admissions has been substantially relaxed at UCLA under Mora.
hanky1
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Phantomfan;842210343 said:

Then why are numbers getting worse at Cal?


They are simply returning to their base level. Grad rates have historically sucked at Cal for football and basketball. We've had a string of a few good years here and there but that's an aberration.
SanseiBear
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boredom;842210338 said:

yay pr spin. The administration has been on top of this for 2 years? And it's just a matter of taking one or two last classes? So then surely last year's football seniors graduated en masse right? Except if they had, that number would be in the email just like the 5 basketball seniors number.

The basketball numbers don't seem right either. 6 seniors from the last 3 years? I did a quick check of Scout for recruiting classes that would've been seniors in the last 3 years and came up with the below.

2009:
Bak
MSF
Smith (he started as a walkon so I don't think he counts)

2008:
Jorge
Seeley

2007:
Amoke
Kamp

If you don't count Smith, and I don't think he qualifies for GSR, then there are only 6 players total here. Amoke and Seeley transferred out so there aren't even 6 potential graduating players. Sandy is clearly counting Smith and Thurman, both walk-ons, which is disingenuous when talking about the GSR.


so the 2007 class will be included in next year's GSR, and so on.
SanseiBear
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RealDrew2;842210372 said:

Interesting that the gsr for football reflects the time when the team was really good. Would you take those years back. Honest answers please


who would have graduated between 2009 to 2012, allowing for 6 years to graduate. If you're talking about the good teams as being from 2003 to 2008, you'd have to look up the GSRs, if they existed, starting from 6 years before those dates.
boredom
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SanseiBear;842210427 said:

so the 2007 class will be included in next year's GSR, and so on.


right, but here's what Sandy said: "of the six seniors on the men's basketball team the past three seasons, five have graduated and a sixth is taking one class this semester to earn his degree."

The six she's talking about are not in the GSR. She's making a claim that it's not an issue for basketball because Monty cares about academics (though he's been here long enough to impact the GSR and it still sucks) and the proof is that the six seniors from the last 3 years have either graduated or are about to.

My point is that her argument is misleading. She's using walkons graduating as backing that the GSR problem is being handled and I don't think walkons count toward the GSR (if they did, we should just start counting random students who are about to graduate as team members and crank the GSR way up). Also, depending on who the 6th player is, he may or may not count as graduating for GSR purposes.

The fact that our best foot forward argument is that 4 scholarship players from the last 3 senior classes will have graduated is not a great sign.
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