Last season was more than the injuries

6,817 Views | 46 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by Nor-Cal Scott
SFCityBear
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We have players who were high on the depth chart transferring to other schools. We have players who did little at Cal to indicate they were even close to being NFL caliber players leaving the program early to try their luck in the NFL. We have recruits who were recruited by the current staff de-committing from the program. We are losing recruits who previously had us high on their list of schools.

With all the players and recruits abandoning the sinking ship of the Cal program, one has to wonder if last season's poor performance was not the result of the large number of injuries the team sustained. I was one who thought with those injuries, we had no chance to win games, and I thought it for a long time. But there have been too many players leaving. It appears that these players either never really bought into the way the program was run, or they did buy into the program, but after looking at it and playing in it, they have decided it is not being run in a way that will lead to success, either success for the team, or success for them personally. The high tech offense that became so predictable. The defense that could not tackle. The mostly inept special teams who often made a bad game worse. There is something wrong within the core of the football program, and the defections indicate that may be true.

The coach was beaten down by the end of the season. No longer was there the positive rhetoric. No longer was there the exuberance we all loved. He was a coach who had no answers. It overshadowed some individual improvement by some players. Now with all the defections, his task to right the ship becomes immense.

What we were as a football program at the end of 2012 was a program that had been successful for many years, but in its final few years had slipped into mediocrity. What we are now is a football program in the tank. This will take more than a lot of positive talk by the coach to both recruits and players to even get back to the level of mediocrity we were experiencing in 2012, let alone become the successful program it was just a few years ago. The Rose Bowl isn't even in the picture anymore.
socalimamma
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+1000
oskidunker
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And no one was injured then!
bearlybobo
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oskidunker;842251460 said:

And no one was injured then!


You mean other than 3/4 of our defensive line (Jalil and Scarlett didn't play, and McCain got ejected), Forbes (Out) and Fortt (hurt in 1st quarter), and Sebastian (out for year after injury end of 1st half I believe).

That's 6 starters.
beeasyed
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bearlybobo;842251464 said:

You mean other than 3/4 of our defensive line (Jalil and Scarlett didn't play, and McCain got ejected), Forbes (Out) and Fortt (hurt in 1st quarter), and Sebastian (out for year after injury end of 1st half I believe).

That's 6 starters.


look at how many games Scarlett and McCain played last year. those two players missing games is not a surprise.
gobears725
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bearlybobo;842251464 said:

You mean other than 3/4 of our defensive line (Jalil and Scarlett didn't play, and McCain got ejected), Forbes (Out) and Fortt (hurt in 1st quarter), and Sebastian (out for year after injury end of 1st half I believe).

That's 6 starters.


why do people assume that Jalil and Scarlett would play over mccain, campo or moala?
bearlybobo
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beeasyed;842251466 said:

look at how many games Scarlett and McCain played last year. those two players missing games is not a surprise.


I wasn't implying that it was a surprise. I was merely responding to the implication that NW beat a healthy 1st team defense.
HaasBear04
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2012 wasn't "mediocre"
KoreAmBear
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gobears725;842251467 said:

why do people assume that Jalil and Scarlett would play over mccain, campo or moala?


When we (Cal alums out here while he was taking a recruiting visit) talked to Buh sometime early last year, he straightened up and told us that Scarlett was the best player on D.

I'd say Scarlett, Avery and McCain were our three most important players on D. Only McCain made it past the Northwestern game (his BS ejection probably turned that game around too). No one made it past the Oregon game.
gobears725
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KoreAmBear;842251471 said:

When we (Cal alums out here while he was taking a recruiting visit) talked to Buh sometime early last year, he straightened up and told us that Scarlett was the best player on D.


thats actually good to know.
UCBerkGrad
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Rose Bowl not in the picture? Remind me the last time it was.
KoreAmBear
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gobears725;842251474 said:

thats actually good to know.


And he said that without hesitation. People don't realize how good Scarlett is, because he hasn't played that much relatively speaking over his career. He did mention that Fortt was the best of the linebackers, FWIW. Man I didn't think our LB corps would be a weakness. I thought we had good depth going into the season. But some of the youngsters are a bit slower than we expected. Our LBs seemed to be out of position a lot, and couldn't get off blocks.
gobears725
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KoreAmBear;842251478 said:

And he said that without hesitation. People don't realize how good Scarlett is, because he hasn't played that much relatively speaking over his career. He did mention that Fortt was the best of the linebackers, FWIW. Man I didn't think our LB corps would be a weakness. I thought we had good depth going into the season. But some of the youngsters are a bit slower than we expected. Our LBs seemed to be out of position a lot, and couldn't get off blocks.


you could tell that Fortt was a pretty good player for sure. the problem is that barton, jefferson and nickerson really played like young guys and bit on fakes a lot. one linebacker in position and two out of position doesnt really do a whole lot of good.

Scarlett i mean tedford used to talk him up a lot and he looked pretty good in the little time he has been out there so what you say makes a lot of sense.

avery is avery. ive always considered him the key to our defense because he can cover for other players mistakes by just flat out scaring the other team because of his hitting ability and ability to make big plays
HungryCalBear
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KoreAmBear;842251478 said:

And he said that without hesitation. People don't realize how good Scarlett is, because he hasn't played that much relatively speaking over his career. He did mention that Fortt was the best of the linebackers, FWIW. Man I didn't think our LB corps would be a weakness. I thought we had good depth going into the season. But some of the youngsters are a bit slower than we expected. Our LBs seemed to be out of position a lot, and couldn't get off blocks.


Good to know but not sure if we can trust anything this coaching staff is saying anymore.
calumnus
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bearlybobo;842251464 said:

You mean other than 3/4 of our defensive line (Jalil and Scarlett didn't play, and McCain got ejected), Forbes (Out) and Fortt (hurt in 1st quarter), and Sebastian (out for year after injury end of 1st half I believe).

That's 6 starters.


And that was from a defense that was ranked #90 in 2012 and lost our best CBs.
gobears725
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HungryCalBear;842251489 said:

Good to know but not sure if we can trust anything this coaching staff is saying anymore.


i actually think you can trust Buh in him telling you who his best player is. usually when someone makes a statement like that, its because theyre stating something that is just very obvious and its not like hes trying to sell you his system
01Bear
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UCBerkGrad;842251476 said:

Rose Bowl not in the picture? Remind me the last time it was.


Up until Mack Brown pouted on national television, Cal had a real shot of playing in the Rose Bowl for January 1, 2005.

But let's not let facts get in the way of a good snarkfest.
calumnus
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HaasBear04;842251470 said:

2012 wasn't "mediocre"


+1

We have been worse than mediocre since 2007 and the trend has been downward.

In 2011 we somehow made the Holiday Bowl, but we have had a losing record in the Pac-10/12 in 5 of the last 7 years. Of those 5 years with a losing conference record, Dykes was only the coach for the most recent one.

He did not create this mess, though he may not be the guy to get us out of it either.
68great
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bearlybobo;842251464 said:

You mean other than 3/4 of our defensive line (Jalil and Scarlett didn't play, and McCain got ejected), Forbes (Out) and Fortt (hurt in 1st quarter), and Sebastian (out for year after injury end of 1st half I believe).

That's 6 starters.


OK Bearlybobo, stop messing up the "The-sky-is-falling-and-it-will-only-get-worse-because-it-is-Sonny's-fault" line of argument.
bear7707
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very well said by the original poster.. I totally agree.

As I see it, I think we will likely be non-competitive until 2016:

2014: with the same coaches, the same "system" and a depleted roster of player due to withdrawals, transfers, NFL attempts and a meager recruiting class, we are looking at another 1-2 win season (including non-conference). I have zero confidence in this coaching group and their ability to turn things around. I believe they are in over their head, especially compared to a strong Pac12 coaching core. If this transpires, the silver lining is that it would likely lead to Dykes' departure (and perhaps SB also) and chance to hit the reset button.

2015: the transition year -- a new coach, but one that has to deal with players who were recruited for a "system" that he's not following, so again a roster mis-fit that again leads to struggles on the field. Perhaps a 3-4 win season due to improved coaching, with some optimism for the following year.

2016: We're competitive again. A capable coach with a roster that is beginning to be molded for his system. Six wins makes us bowl eligible and I think that is realistic goal for 2016.

I applaud all who maintain enthusiasm in the face of disaster. I'm lowering my expectations as much as possible so as to endure 2014 without undue misery. The skies will clear again, but it will take at least another year.

Go Bears
Bearacious
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that evil Sonny ruined the great thing we had going!

Especially the fantastic APR rate that was about to get us NCAA sanctions!

Darn you Sonny! It is all your fault!
freshfunk
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bear7707;842251516 said:

very well said by the original poster.. I totally agree.

As I see it, I think we will likely be non-competitive until 2016:

2014: with the same coaches, the same "system" and a depleted roster of player due to withdrawals, transfers, NFL attempts and a meager recruiting class, we are looking at another 1-2 win season (including non-conference). I have zero confidence in this coaching group and their ability to turn things around. I believe they are in over their head, especially compared to a strong Pac12 coaching core. If this transpires, the silver lining is that it would likely lead to Dykes' departure (and perhaps SB also) and chance to hit the reset button.

2015: the transition year -- a new coach, but one that has to deal with players who were recruited for a "system" that he's not following, so again a roster mis-fit that again leads to struggles on the field. Perhaps a 3-4 win season due to improved coaching, with some optimism for the following year.

2016: We're competitive again. A capable coach with a roster that is beginning to be molded for his system. Six wins makes us bowl eligible and I think that is realistic goal for 2016.

I applaud all who maintain enthusiasm in the face of disaster. I'm lowering my expectations as much as possible so as to endure 2014 without undue misery. The skies will clear again, but it will take at least another year.

Go Bears


My thoughts are similar except I push relevance out two more years because Barbour will be slow to pull the trigger on Sonny or the donors won't back that early a buyout with her at the helm. If SB is let go in the next year or so, we may accelerate the schedule on the post-Dykes era.

I have a feeling we're going to be the new WSU/Colorado for the next 5 years where people chalk it up as a gimme win. The majority of our wins will come from FCS teams.
GoBearsBert
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ucberkgrad;842251476 said:

rose bowl not in the picture? Remind me the last time it was.


2006
RealDrew2
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Bearacious;842251522 said:

that evil Sonny ruined the great thing we had going!

Especially the fantastic APR rate that was about to get us NCAA sanctions!

Darn you Sonny! It is all your fault!


So improving our APR did nothing for Sonny.

and you are assuming no other coach could have done the same things he did. And what exactly did he do to improve APR- that was not already being done by changes implemented by prior regime and AD previous year.
cccbear04
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I saw no assumption another coach couldn't have done the same thing with the apr. The level of vitriol and hatred towards sonny is far beyond reasonable. The locker room was much more toxic than anyone was led to believe. Losing sucks but to say Dykes came in and screwed everything up haven't been paying attention since 2007. There were a lot of factors in our bad season but to ignore the injuries and the intensity of the schedule and blame everything on a first year coach with all young players, is well... Silly
gobears725
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cccbear04;842251552 said:

I saw no assumption another coach couldn't have done the same thing with the apr. The level of vitriol and hatred towards sonny is far beyond reasonable. The locker room was much more toxic than anyone was led to believe. Losing sucks but to say Dykes came in and screwed everything up haven't been paying attention since 2007. There were a lot of factors in our bad season but to ignore the injuries and the intensity of the schedule and blame everything on a first year coach with all young players, is well... Silly


blaming everything on him is yes silly. but i also dont think that sonny and his staff were the right people to come in and turn this thing around. if anything i believe their rigid attachment to the TFS has made things worse and instead of trying to fit their schemes to the talent that we have, theyre trying to fit the talent into the schemes which is clear we dont have the talent to run their schemes right now.he didnt screw everything up but i believe that they made things worse.

the lockerroom may have already been toxic, but his job was to try to change the atmosphere. in all my years of following this team, ive never heard of one of our players getting beat to a pulp by one of their teammates. doesnt sound like sonny is succeeding in changing the atmosphere of the lockerroom.
cccbear04
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And that is a valid argument to make and comes off completely rational. I think time will tell but I'm by no means sold either way about sonny at this point
KoreAmBear
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gobears725;842251491 said:

i actually think you can trust Buh in him telling you who his best player is. usually when someone makes a statement like that, its because theyre stating something that is just very obvious and its not like hes trying to sell you his system


It was funny too. I kept asking about McCain, hoping to hear him say this was his year. I think he kept moving onto other people he was excited about. This was after Spring Ball.
gobears725
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cccbear04;842251556 said:

And that is a valid argument to make and comes off completely rational. I think time will tell but I'm by no means sold either way about sonny at this point


it doesnt look good, lets just say that. there have been very successful head coaches that struggled mightily early in their tenures, but the sample size is probably too small to make a definitive judgment on it
SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA
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UCBerkGrad;842251476 said:

Rose Bowl not in the picture? Remind me the last time it was.


Shortly before this play.
68great
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KoreAmBear;842251558 said:

It was funny too. I kept asking about McCain, hoping to hear him say this was his year. I think he kept moving onto other people he was excited about. This was after Spring Ball.


Meaning.....?
....that McCain was not on track with the program?
BearlyCareAnymore
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calumnus;842251502 said:

+1

We have been worse than mediocre since 2007 and the trend has been downward.

In 2011 we somehow made the Holiday Bowl, but we have had a losing record in the Pac-10/12 in 5 of the last 7 years. Of those 5 years with a losing conference record, Dykes was only the coach for the most recent one.

He did not create this mess, though he may not be the guy to get us out of it either.


Guys, I'm sorry but mediocre does not mean whatever I'm personally satisfied with. It has a definition. Here are a couple:

Moderate to inferior in quality; ordinary

of only moderate quality; not very good


It does not mean really, really sucks. 3-9 is not mediocre. Northwestern was not mediocre, going 1-7 in conference, winning its' last game by 3 against another 1-7 team. Those are bad teams.

Likewise, 9-4 and 6-3 in conference is not worse than mediocre. Neither is 8-5, 5-4. I'd say 7-6 and 4-5 is decidedly mediocre.

As for this concept of downward trend, I'm sorry, you can't just draw a line between one season and another and then follow its' path. What happened this year is not somehow the natural result of where Tedford was heading.

Opinion, certainly, but I don't believe for a second that there was any possibility that Tedford and his staff would have put this product on the field. Whatever you want to think about Tedford vs. Dykes at the top, we flat out downgraded at every coaching position underneath head coach with the possible exception of OC. No way Tedford's staff puts out guys that are that bad in basic fundamentals.

I do not think some of you understand how bad everything has to be to put out that season. That was a breakdown in every facet. Basic fundamentals easily get us by Colorado and Northwestern and at least keep us in games like WSU. It took a complete cluster**** by the coaching staff to do what they did this year.

No one could have done worse. That is easy to say because it is almost impossible to do worse.

Tedford was done. It was time to move on. He changed the equation here. He raised the expectations. Guys did not come here to win 5-7 games a year. They came here because they thought we could win a conference championship. At the end, they no longer believed he could do that and he couldn't keep them motivated to win 5-6 games when that was all that was left. With a terrible back up QB pressed into service, the best player on the team out with injury, and everybody expecting the coach to get fired, they packed it in. That is what happens when a coach comes to the end of his run. The OSU game was not the normal state for this team. People have got to stop acting like it excuses anything Sonny does. It took 11 years for the players to give up on Tedford like that. It took about 5 quarters for them to play like that under Sonny.

The point is, we needed to hire somebody BETTER THAN TEDFORD. Players gave up on Holmoe, and we saw improvement the next year. Players gave up on Gilby and we saw improvement the next year. Players gave up on Kapp and we saw improvement the next year. Players gave up on Theder and we saw improvement the next year. New coaches in this situation should show something.

Frankly, it is obvious from the dazed and confused look on Dykes face all year that even he is stunned at his level of failure. Tedford certainly is the reason we did compete for a conference title this year. He is probably the reason we couldn't finish in the top half of the conference. But he is not the reason for going 0 for FBS. No way. No how. That is on Sonny.
cccbear04
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Could dazed looks be caused by how incompetent the players really were?
Cal89
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Competence and the soon-to-follow confidence has a lot to do with the coaching afforded. Everything from the viability of the system/s, fundamentals and techniques to game prep...

Sure, talent is a necessity too. But, if anyone thinks that we have / had the worst talent in the conference, near the bottom of D1, the worst in our history, then that is delusional.

While good, and even great coaches have had poor first years, there were indications in those seasons of improvement, and with that, hope. We've had such lengthy discussions before. SD and staff left us nothing in that respect...

As a very recent and concurrent example, take the Buffs and their hiring of Mac. Many here felt that he walked into a terrible situation, one worse than ours. While I'm not saying he'll return them to the their glory days, the first year did leave them with some hope. Compared to 2012, he upped their win total a little and also quite telling, is that their PPG improved quite bit, on both sides of the ball. While they are still a poor team, they handled us with ease and improved from the previous year...

And let's not whine about our schedule. Sure the Pac-12 is tough. We played 9 conferences foes, just like other Pac-12 teams. And our 3 OOC games... Yes, a top 5 tOSU team at home, but after that, also at home, NU was one the worst teams in their conference (11th), then we barely beat an average FCS team at home, for our only win. These OOC games don't make our schedule markedly different or more difficult than that of other Pac-12 teams...
sixtiesbear1
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this is not just about injuries. the colorado comparison is very telling.
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