I can handle a 1-11 season.

I can handle multiple 1-11 seasons.

I can not, and will not, ever be able to handle Tosh coming back to Cal.

BeachyBear;842272859 said:

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Sure, let's make this dumpster fire go nuclear! Bring back Tosh!

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Nice.

concordtom;842272860 said:

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The whole idea of Tosh coming back to Cal is pretty damned impossible to fathom. But for those who want to argue the side that would consider it, can I add that before ANY further conversation on the matter is had, Tosh should simply have the mea culpa interviews with all parties concerned, including all of us.

Answer [U]every single question[/U] we have in an honest and up front manner, and only THEN will I consider it. Otherwise, go F yourself, jump off a bridge, and good luck recruiting in some other state far far away from California.

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Nicer.

dajo9;842273111 said:

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I love the idea of Tosh trying to come back and having the door shut on him. And after only 2 years. Delicious.

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Nicest.

75bear;842273134 said:

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I can handle multiple 1-11 seasons.

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You, sir, have the patience of a god.

I actually seem to recall a couple tweets from players who had just completed their eligibility so were still in school but weren't coming back next year. Somewhat of a guess because it's been several years, but I think Schwartz may have made a comment about it along with a few others. There was definitely more than just Teppers tweets.

dajo9;842273111 said:

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I love the idea of Tosh trying to come back and having the door shut on him. And after only 2 years. Delicious.

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Tosh has earned a lot of nicknames since his departure and it sounds like we have a new one: Kneepads.

slider643;842272758 said:

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So three players. I don't think that's successful recruiting.

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3 players with another 4 TBD (Avery, Scarlett, Jalil, Forbes). Why are you leaving them out? Every single one of them is being viewed as a likely starter next year if they are healthy.

Edit: also left out Todd Barr in previous post. He's another TBD/potential starter who was recruited by Tosh.

chazzed;842273167 said:

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Nice.

Nicer.

Nicest.

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Yeah, those were funny. But quite seriously, the best justice I can think of for Tosh is the unredeemable fact that he has smutted his family name for generations. It's one thing to have shamed yourself. But he has shamed the entire Lupoi name. I don't see how he can continue without one day having to stop, look back, and admit he was a monster. The shame runs deep, I imagine. He will never appear as a member of the Cal family again. At least not until his mea culpa moment.

You can get into a spat with your boss.
Things can become insular and you can lose perspective.
But you don't F with the fanbase!

concordtom;842272860 said:

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The whole idea of Tosh coming back to Cal is pretty damned impossible to fathom. But for those who want to argue the side that would consider it, can I add that before ANY further conversation on the matter is had, Tosh should simply have the mea culpa interviews with all parties concerned, including all of us.

Answer [U]every single question[/U] we have in an honest and up front manner, and only THEN will I consider it. Otherwise, go F yourself, jump off a bridge, and good luck recruiting in some other state far far away from California.

Without such an admittance of fault, and apology, Tosh's name is not only mud with all of us, but his grandfather is surely spinning in his grave:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=6272961

He has done shame to his family name that will last about as long as the memory of Lupoi's market. Either apologize and bow your head in shame, submitting to our whim, or be gone and never come back.

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+1million bc I know he won't do any one of t hose things let alone all.

I would do what I could to stop that guy from coming back. A horrible horrible message and precedent set if we were to do so. Stand that low life next to the chancellor or professor on campus and say they represent similar values?! Are you sh*tting me?!! We would be a legitimate joke of a program, desperate, dumb, and disgraceful. On TOP of the losing. Vomit.

cal2014deca;842272886 said:

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"keep your friends close and your enemies closer" :headbang

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He's not an enemy he's a LOSER on the fast track to being poster boy number two for Cal in the corruption files. Number one is still Jelani Gardner's financial aid advisor...

concordtom;842273334 said:

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Yeah, those were funny. But quite seriously, the best justice I can think of for Tosh is the unredeemable fact that he has smutted his family name for generations. It's one thing to have shamed yourself. But he has shamed the entire Lupoi name. I don't see how he can continue without one day having to stop, look back, and admit he was a monster. The shame runs deep, I imagine. He will never appear as a member of the Cal family again. At least not until his mea culpa moment.

You can get into a spat with your boss.
Things can become insular and you can lose perspective.
But you don't F with the fanbase!

---

I'm pretty sure he doesn't see it this way. I can see his rationalizations:

1. Tedford, for whom he gave his whole life to, sold him out after the Toshgate game.

2. Then hoping that Tedford would make everything good again in contract negotiations (after being courted by UW), Tedford goes arms length on him and treats him like a stranger who has to negotiate for a job like anyone else (he goes last and final offer on him and brings Sandy into too).

3. What he did was because he was forced do it, as he refused to be treated this way, esp. with how he was basically making Tedford with these Top 20 classes.

4. Re: Shaq, all is fair in love, war and recruiting. At the time he was in his home, he was for all intents and purposes a UW employee. Tedford threw him under the bus, and now he's affording him the same kind of treatment.

It's 100% assured that Tosh currently feels like he did nothing wrong. It's likely that Tosh in having discussions with the Cal football staff, probably feels like HE is the one giving Cal another chance. This might sounds absurd to you, but delusional folks think like this all the time. It would be quite normal and it would probably be surprising to him if he were asked to apologize.

KoreAmBear;842273351 said:

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I'm pretty sure he doesn't see it this way. I can see his rationalizations:

1. Tedford, for whom he gave his whole life to, sold him out after the Toshgate game.

2. Then hoping that Tedford would make everything good again in contract negotiations (after being courted by UW), Tedford goes arms length on him and treats him like a stranger who has to negotiate for a job like anyone else (he goes last and final offer on him and brings Sandy into too).

3. What he did was because he was forced do it, as he refused to be treated this way, esp. with how he was basically making Tedford with these Top 20 classes.

4. Re: Shaq, all is fair in love, war and recruiting. At the time he was in his home, he was for all intents and purposes a UW employee. Tedford threw him under the bus, and now he's affording him the same kind of treatment.

It's 100% assured that Tosh currently feels like he did nothing wrong. It's likely that Tosh in having discussions with the Cal football staff, probably feels like HE is the one giving Cal another chance. This might sounds absurd to you, but delusional folks think like this all the time. It would be quite normal and it would probably be surprising to him if he were asked to apologize.

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Is as delusional at Tosh. Its not just a matter of an apology.

wifeisafurd;842273375 said:

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Is as delusional at Tosh. Its not just a matter of an apology.

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Of course. But I know for some that may be all it takes.

KoreAmBear;842273351 said:

---

I'm pretty sure he doesn't see it this way. I can see his rationalizations:

1. Tedford, for whom he gave his whole life to, sold him out after the Toshgate game.

2. Then hoping that Tedford would make everything good again in contract negotiations (after being courted by UW), Tedford goes arms length on him and treats him like a stranger who has to negotiate for a job like anyone else (he goes last and final offer on him and brings Sandy into too).

3. What he did was because he was forced do it, as he refused to be treated this way, esp. with how he was basically making Tedford with these Top 20 classes.

4. Re: Shaq, all is fair in love, war and recruiting. At the time he was in his home, he was for all intents and purposes a UW employee. Tedford threw him under the bus, and now he's affording him the same kind of treatment.

It's 100% assured that Tosh currently feels like he did nothing wrong. It's likely that Tosh in having discussions with the Cal football staff, probably feels like HE is the one giving Cal another chance. This might sounds absurd to you, but delusional folks think like this all the time. It would be quite normal and it would probably be surprising to him if he were asked to apologize.

---

Maybe you are right about how delusional Tosh is. And I believe that OJ felt justified in what he did. And I believe that many serial killers really do hear voices and that they feel justified for their killing sprees.

But that does not mean that we have to make excuses for Tosh; or hire him back.

How incompetent would the Cal coaches have to be to conclude that only Tosh can fill the position.:rant

I cannot believe that we are actually discussing this issue seriously. "Sure Cal is going to hire Tosh" followed by a big "SARCASM" smilie.

wifeisafurd;842273375 said:

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Is as delusional at Tosh. Its not just a matter of an apology.

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I personally don't need an apology from him. To the extent that he has wronged me as a fan of Cal football and as an alum of UC Berkeley, I forgive him and I don't wish him any ill. However, forgiving him doesn't mean that we need to associate with him or allow him to betray us again. He may be entitled to our forgiveness but he is not entitled to our trust or our association. I can forgive someone who punches me in the face. However, forgiving him for that misdeed doesn't mean that I have to keep going back to put my face near his fist over and over again to be punched. As such, apology or no apology, we should not put ourselves in that position again.

68great;842273389 said:

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Maybe you are right about how delusional Tosh is. And I believe that OJ felt justified in what he did. And I believe that many serial killers really do hear voices and that they feel justified for their killing sprees.

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A 6 page thread and the best someone can come up with is a comparison of Tosh to OJ?

Godwin would be disappointed.

No way.

Keep that duplicitous d-bag as far away from Cal Football as possible.

St.Tosh STOLE from Cal. He recruited for Wasington while on the Cal payroll. In my opinion, anyone who wants that trash back is just a tiny bit silly.

:tedford to get the band back together!

:cry::cry::cry::cry::facepalm:cry::cry::cry::cry:

calbear93;842273393 said:

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I personally don't need an apology from him. To the extent that he has wronged me as a fan of Cal football and as an alum of UC Berkeley, I forgive him and I don't wish him any ill. However, forgiving him doesn't mean that we need to associate with him or allow him to betray us again. He may be entitled to our forgiveness but he is not entitled to our trust or our association. I can forgive someone who punches me in the face. However, forgiving him for that misdeed doesn't mean that I have to keep going back to put my face near his fist over and over again to be punched. As such, apology or no apology, we should not put ourselves in that position again.

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This is how I feel now. He also played at Cal and I think he loved Cal at some point. He made his decision and thats it. I don't really know what circumstances led to that decision, but I don't ever want to see him on our sideline again.

ducky23;842273401 said:

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A 6 page thread and the best someone can come up with is a comparison of Tosh to OJ?

Godwin would be disappointed.

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He's literally Hitler.

KoreAmBear;842273386 said:

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Of course. But I know for some that may be all it takes.

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He is not coaching at Cal.

can anyone question who recruits better, Barry Sacks/Garrett Chachere or Tosh? Who has more first round picks?

BEAST2324MODE;842273411 said:

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can anyone question who recruits better, Barry Sacks/Garrett Chachere or Tosh? Who has more first round picks?

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Considering Sacks/Chachere have only recruited for one year we'll have to return to this question in about 3 years.

BEAST2324MODE;842273411 said:

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can anyone question who recruits better, Barry Sacks/Garrett Chachere or Tosh? Who has more first round picks?

---

Tosh never recruited Tyson Alualu and Cameron Jordan, let's get that straight.

He did recruit a laundry list of high ranking players that never panned out and/or never even played at CAL. In fact, the recruitment of those players directly affected our APR. Negatively.

He then decided to leave at the worst possible time, bad mouthing CAL to all the recruits he previously recruited and blew up the 2012 class. He recruited for the enemy on CAL's dime. He betrayed the head coach that got us here and that eventually lead to his firing a year later, resulting in us hiring a coach that lead us to a 1-11 season.

So, to actually directly answer your question, who recruited more first round picks? They are tied for 0.

How many of you could ever bad-mouth Cal? I'm not talking about always having homer goggles, but about going out of your way to make Cal look bad. I don't think there's any true loyal alumni that would ever do that. On the other hand, it was pretty well known that Lupoi purposely bad-mouthed Cal and attacked Cal for recruiting gains. It's one thing to want a better pay, or aren't completely happy with your boss (even if you're still being a total dbag about it), but to try to bring down and make look bad the school that you attended, gave you your first shot and gave you a job? I don't care if you're trying to do a "good" job at your new job, to me specifically attacking your school shows no love or respect for that school.

although what no one has answered yet is *if* Tosh comes back, will the hatter transfer and come on over? lolz

:hatters

ferCALgm2;842273421 said:

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How many of you could ever bad-mouth Cal? I'm not talking about always having homer goggles, but about going out of your way to make Cal look bad. I don't think there's any true loyal alumni that would ever do that. On the other hand, it was pretty well known that Lupoi purposely bad-mouthed Cal and attacked Cal for recruiting gains. It's one thing to want a better pay, or aren't completely happy with your boss (even if you're still being a total dbag about it), but to try to bring down and make look bad the school that you attended, gave you your first shot and gave you a job? I don't care if you're trying to do a "good" job at your new job, to me specifically attacking your school shows no love or respect for that school.

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I bet plenty of people who felt like they got the shaft from faculty, administrators or peers. It's like those who work for a place for decades and then are laid off. They will not only have little loyalty, they may torch the place.

Davidson;842273415 said:

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Tosh never recruited Tyson Alualu and Cameron Jordan, let's get that straight.

He did recruit a laundry list of high ranking players that never panned out and/or never even played at CAL. In fact, the recruitment of those players directly affected our APR. Negatively.

He then decided to leave at the worst possible time, bad mouthing CAL to all the recruits he previously recruited and blew up the 2012 class. He recruited for the enemy on CAL's dime. He betrayed the head coach that got us here and that eventually lead to his firing a year later, resulting in us hiring a coach that lead us to a 1-11 season.

So, to actually directly answer your question, who recruited more first round picks? They are tied for 0.

---

I've 'heard' and 'read' a lot of 2nd and 3rd hand information both on and off the board, however, I haven't heard anything more than hersay, nothing reliable. I don't see how one can chastise another without evidence that proves his guilt on these matters. But I also don't see why the Cal staff would want to hire him unless he addressed these allegations first.

No doubt Toshs spring to success was fast and furious, as a result he was pretty young, immature which related to recruits well. Not mention he was offered a hansome salary that most dream of.

I'd like to think my personal integrity is bullet proof today, but I don't think anyone here can say they wouldn't have done what many say Tosh did without being in that situation. Reminds me of the quote from the former WWF wrestler 'the million dollar man', "everybody has a price."

TKDBear;842273235 said:

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3 players with another 4 TBD (Avery, Scarlett, Jalil, Forbes). Why are you leaving them out? Every single one of them is being viewed as a likely starter next year if they are healthy.

Edit: also left out Todd Barr in previous post. He's another TBD/potential starter who was recruited by Tosh.

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I'll count them when they're productive. Right now it stands at 3 players over how many seasons?

BEAST2324MODE;842273411 said:

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can anyone question who recruits better, Barry Sacks/Garrett Chachere or Tosh? Who has more first round picks?

---

Who gives a flock?

:tedford to do less with more.

KoreAmBear;842273351 said:

---

I'm pretty sure he doesn't see it this way. I can see his rationalizations:

1. Tedford, for whom he gave his whole life to, sold him out after the Toshgate game.

2. Then hoping that Tedford would make everything good again in contract negotiations (after being courted by UW), Tedford goes arms length on him and treats him like a stranger who has to negotiate for a job like anyone else (he goes last and final offer on him and brings Sandy into too).

3. What he did was because he was forced do it, as he refused to be treated this way, esp. with how he was basically making Tedford with these Top 20 classes.

4. Re: Shaq, all is fair in love, war and recruiting. At the time he was in his home, he was for all intents and purposes a UW employee. Tedford threw him under the bus, and now he's affording him the same kind of treatment.

It's 100% assured that Tosh currently feels like he did nothing wrong. It's likely that Tosh in having discussions with the Cal football staff, probably feels like HE is the one giving Cal another chance. This might sounds absurd to you, but delusional folks think like this all the time. It would be quite normal and it would probably be surprising to him if he were asked to apologize.

---

Your argument amounts to two wrongs make a right.

If Tedford threw Lupoi under the bus with the fake injuries in the Oregon game, you might have a case for Lupoi having a case of sour grapes.

Even so, if Lupoi felt that Tedford did throw him under the bus, Lupoi's behavior is still reprehensible. It's the mark of a weasel that they were wronged so it's okay to wrong the other guy. There are better ways of getting revenge that don't involve soiling yourself with devious behavior.

Tedford didn't throw Lupoi under the bus: Lupoi did that to himself. Lupoi should have left the program at the end of the season if he had been wronged. He could always claim that he had been wrongly accused and had no part in injury-gate IF he was, in fact, innocent.

FiatSlug;842273489 said:

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Your argument boils down to that two wrongs make a right.

If Tedford threw Lupoi under the bus with the injury thing, you might have a case for Lupoi having a case of sour grapes.

Even so, if Lupoi felt that Tedford did throw him under the bus, Lupoi's behavior is still reprehensible. It's the mark of a weasel that they were wronged so it's okay to wrong the other guy. There are better ways of getting revenge that don't involve soiling yourself with devious behavior.

Tedford didn't throw Lupoi under the bus: Lupoi did that to himself.

---

It's not an argument, bro. It's what Tosh is most likely thinking. Or, for his sake, probably how he should be thinking if he wants to look at himself in the mirror with a good conscience.

To$h has no one to blame for injurygate but himself. He was stupid enough to mention it to the press well after the fact, essentially forcing JT to react. If he hadn't said anything, it would have blown over.

philbert;842273497 said:

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To$h has no one to blame for injurygate but himself. He was stupid enough to mention it to the press well after the fact, essentially forcing JT to react. If he hadn't said anything, it would have blown over.

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Sorry to beat a dead Tosh on the Year of the Horse, but if I recall correctly, it was Sandy and JT that brought the discipline up after news died down. We do PR so well at Cal.

Calntheplay;842273449 said:

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I've 'heard' and 'read' a lot of 2nd and 3rd hand information both on and off the board, however, I haven't heard anything more than hersay, nothing reliable. I don't see how one can chastise another without evidence that proves his guilt on these matters. But I also don't see why the Cal staff would want to hire him unless he addressed these allegations first.

No doubt Toshs spring to success was fast and furious, as a result he was pretty young, immature which related to recruits well. Not mention he was offered a hansome salary that most dream of.

I'd like to think my personal integrity is bullet proof today, but I don't think anyone here can say they wouldn't have done what many say Tosh did without being in that situation. Reminds me of the quote from the former WWF wrestler 'the million dollar man', "everybody has a price."

---

Come off it.

The hearsay rule is a part of judicial procedure so that the govenment does not punish an individual for something that a person has not done. But there are many exceptions to the hearsay rule where a court can allow hearsay in.

But the hearsay rule does not apply to non-judicial social interactions. We are allowed to rely on hearsay in coming to our own conclusions. We generally know who the speaker is and his/her veracity and accuracy and his/her personality and character.

Also if hearsay is all consistent and comes from many different sources we often would find it more credible.

In evaluating you are to use your own judgment and come to your own conclusion.

But common sense tells you that you must expect to rely on hearsay to some extent in your life especially in the modern world.

the vast bulk of the information about Tosh is from many different sources and is consistent. He royally scr*wed Cal and Tedford and he violated his contractual and fiduciary obligations to Cal in the way that he handled his recruiting. Plus once he left Cal he was a real jerk going out of his way to disparage Cal.

So don't play the lawyer game and tell us that we cannot believe anything that is hearsay or that hearsay is not reliable.

Calntheplay;842273449 said:

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I've 'heard' and 'read' a lot of 2nd and 3rd hand information both on and off the board, however, I haven't heard anything more than hersay, nothing reliable. I don't see how one can chastise another without evidence that proves his guilt on these matters. But I also don't see why the Cal staff would want to hire him unless he addressed these allegations first.

No doubt Toshs spring to success was fast and furious, as a result he was pretty young, immature which related to recruits well. Not mention he was offered a hansome salary that most dream of.

I'd like to think my personal integrity is bullet proof today, but I don't think anyone here can say they wouldn't have done what many say Tosh did without being in that situation. Reminds me of the quote from the former WWF wrestler 'the million dollar man', "everybody has a price."

---

People do judge other people. People can be condemned or hated for what they have done. The people judging are not required to have been in the shoes of the bad actor. There are commonly accepted norms of behavior (granted these norms are flexible to a point and are different for different societies). If someone violates those commonly accepted norms, he/she is condemned socially. Tosh violated those commonly accepted norms. Tosh should be condemned --- socially among Cal fans and Cal supporters.

As for your comment that everyone has his/her price. what price do you put on honor? what price do you put on loyalty? What price do you put on friendship? What price do you put on duty?

68great;842273503 said:

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Come off it.

The hearsay rule is a part of judicial procedure so that the govenment does not punish an individual for something that a person has not done. But there are many exceptions to the hearsay rule where a court can allow hearsay in.

---

I agree. The only reason for the hearsay rule is to protect the right to cross-examine your accusers. Since we as internet warriors have no right to cross-examine anyone, stating that we should not rely on hearsay seems odd. Otherwise, since we couldn't cross examine anyone, we couldn't rely on anything. In fact, unless the person of interest comes on this board, every statement made by anyone not on this board is hearsay. Would make for a very boring board.