A tweet from sonny dykes

15,046 Views | 97 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by gobears725
Big C
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beeasyed;842283747 said:

at the end of the day, as long as it means Cal wins more (w/o threat of sanctions), i'm all for it, whatever it is. hell, i wouldn't even care if Cal cheated or cut some corners--as i'm sure most all college programs do--at this point.


At this point, at least for me, I'm thinking I still want my alma mater to win by playing the game the right way, i.e. no cheating and players developing as young men and as students.

Why play sports if you're not gonna play the right way? It's sports, fergodssake... When we had players fake injuries that year against Oregon, I thought that was lame.

As for "cutting corners", I'd have to see what that would entail on a case by case basis and evaluate it each time. What kind of corners would you be talking about, for example?
beeasyed
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Big C_Cal;842283764 said:

At this point, at least for me, I'm thinking I still want my alma mater to win by playing the game the right way, i.e. no cheating and players developing as young men and as students.

Why play sports if you're not gonna play the right way? It's sports, fergodssake... When we had players fake injuries that year against Oregon, I thought that was lame.

As for "cutting corners", I'd have to see what that would entail on a case by case basis and evaluate it each time. What kind of corners would you be talking about, for example?


of course. taking hardworking students/athletes isn't just to fix the APR; that's what Cal should be doing anyway.

i'm not saying we turn into the disgusting UW of old and start covering up rape and assault allegations. i'm also not saying act like Stanfurd and pull a kid's offer the night before signing day and give him the "admissions didn't clear you" bit.

but it wouldn't bother me if we started oversigning, for example. it wouldn't bother me if athletes had fluff majors and easy classes. it wouldn't bother me if we found/exploited grey areas in recruiting and other loopholes.

i'm all for gaming the system.
DangerBear
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beeasyed;842283771 said:

of course. taking hardworking students/athletes isn't just to fix the APR; that's what Cal should be doing anyway.

i'm not saying we turn into the disgusting UW of old and start covering up rape and assault allegations. i'm also not saying act like Stanfurd and pull a kid's offer the night before signing day and give him the "admissions didn't clear you" bit.

but it wouldn't bother me if we started oversigning, for example. it wouldn't bother me if athletes had fluff majors and easy classes. it wouldn't bother me if we found/exploited grey areas in recruiting and other loopholes.

i'm all for gaming the system.


i'm all for recruiting hostesses as long as I get to vet them first.
beeasyed
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DangerBear;842283794 said:

i'm all for recruiting hostesses as long as I get to vet them first.


we need to start offering schollies for hostesses. offers decided and extended by committee. :woohoo
Bobodeluxe
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SonOfCalVa
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Great image of guys who condone cheating and cutting corners.
I hope their bosses catch them when they pull sh't at work.
Count your silverware if you're silly enough to invite them into your home. Don't be surprised if they steal your toilet paper.

Bobodeluxe;842283803 said:


beeasyed
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SonOfCalVa;842283810 said:

Great image of guys who condone cheating and cutting corners.
I hope their bosses catch them when they pull sh't at work.
Count your silverware if you're silly enough to invite them into your home. Don't be surprised if they steal your toilet paper.


so now i'm cheapskate and a thief b/c i don't mind loopholes? :rollinglaugh:

reality is Cal hasn't been competitive for a long time, and that will to win is lacking. we've been taking sh*t for as long as i can remember; getting punked by Texas/Brown was just fantastic, if you choose to believe it was all Mack's fault.

so i stand by what i said. i wouldn't mind if Cal exploited the system and did all it could to give itself an advantage--or just level the playing field. at least it would show we still care about winning. but whatever Cal decides to do, it needs to commit to it. deciding to fake injuries against Oregon, and then apologizing to the world and throwing To$h under the bus? half-assing it.
beeasyed
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do a little high school "outreach"











calbear93
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beeasyed;842283817 said:

so now i'm cheapskate and a thief b/c i don't mind loopholes? :rollinglaugh:

reality is Cal hasn't been competitive for a long time, and that will to win is lacking. we've been taking sh*t for as long as i can remember; getting punked by Texas/Brown was just fantastic, if you choose to believe it was all Mack's fault.

so i stand by what i said. i wouldn't mind if Cal exploited the system and did all it could to give itself an advantage--or just level the playing field. at least it would show we still care about winning. but whatever Cal decides to do, it needs to commit to it. deciding to fake injuries against Oregon, and then apologizing to the world and throwing To$h under the bus? half-assing it.


I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. It doesn't mean I don't want our program to win. It means that my vicarious enjoyment of their success would go away if I couldn't relate to the program or the athletes. If I thought that they were cheating, the win would feel dirty enough that I wouldn't enjoy the win. I want the team to be smart, take advantage of the rules as they are written without cutting corners or cheating, be hardworking and show good sportsmanship. If I can't respect the team or feel a connection to them (not only in the school attended but also in the type of basic moral standards they are adopting), what is the point of rooting for the program? What do I really get out of their win? If I thought that they were sanctioning exploitation of impressionable co-eds who could one day be my daughter, I would stop supporting the program. I guess that's just me, but a win that I can't be proud of is no win at all.
beeasyed
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calbear93;842283905 said:

...If I thought that they were cheating, the win would feel dirty enough that I wouldn't enjoy the win. I want the team to be smart, take advantage of the rules as they are written without cutting corners or cheating, be hardworking and show good sportsmanship...


i want our athletes to be smart and work hard too. that shouldn't change.

but i wouldn't care if our staff gamed the system and used the NCAA bylaws to its advantage. i'm sure there's plenty to be learned about how powerhouse programs stay powerhouse programs. not all of them involve stashing cash in coffee cups. there's something to be said about the dedication of LSU recruiters flying halfway across the country just to keep an eye on their hs targets going on a last second UCLA OV.

NCAA is a corrupt, self-serving organization that takes advantage of HS athletes. my own standard of ethics of how i act in my workplace doesn't really apply when thinking about how my school can do everything in its power--w/in the damn NCAA framework--to win. everyone within this system is trying to game it, so i'll be damned if my school is the only not attempting to, and proclaiming the moral victory.

i'm sure Stanfurd's med facilities are trying to find new strength-enhancing chemicals/supplements that aren't yet on the NCAA's radar. they're playing to their advantage; we should play to ours, whatever ours is. Cal needs to find out what's our secret sauce, and then use the hell out of it. playing the "we never speak bad about other programs" card only gets you so far.

and then there's the issue of outright cheating. i'm not a fan of it. i would prefer Cal not to do it. i wish we didn't fake injuries against Oregon. i wish we didn't even have to. but the fact is, JT decided to do it, and then when our bad actor was caught, we apologized nationally and finger-blamed To$h. have some balls and deny it like Northwestern. so my original point is the same. whatever Cal decides it needs to do, it needs to be 100% committed to doing it. i'm tired of seeing the administration & staff over the last decade implementing new things and not doing any one thing well. jack of all trades, master at none.
gobears725
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it really depends on what loopholes that people mean. if it means taking advantage of grey areas in the rules, go ahead, by all means. rules such as contacting a player via facebook or something before they had rules about social media. i dont mind them operating where rules arent clearly defined and there are a lot of those with the ncaa as well. there are so many stupid rules that the ncaa forces colleges to follow, so if they leave the door open for something that is not easily defined, then i believe that our coaches should take advantage
BearlyCareAnymore
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MoragaBear;842282665 said:

Seriously. Frost's tweet is perfect. Should he stfu, too?

It's not about excuse-making. It's about bringing to light how silly and self-serving the proposal is that's being pushed forward by coaches like Saban who want the game played their way and their way alone.


In order to see whether my claim that Cal's offense won't be impacted is correct, considering that the statement was made that Cal wasn't really running hurry up most of the year the way they want, I went back and looked at the LaTech - aTm game with an eye on the play clock. I got through 3 quarters before deciding it was enough. LaTech was playing fast, very fast at times. They usually were snapping in with the clock in the low 20's. They only beat 29 seconds three times - one time on a spike. The other two times were after very short plays. I'd encourage people to watch some of it. It is very hard to beat 29 on the play clock unless you are spiking the ball. This rule is just not going to slow down the offense.
gobears725
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OaktownBear;842283910 said:

In order to see whether my claim that Cal's offense won't be impacted is correct, considering that the statement was made that Cal wasn't really running hurry up most of the year the way they want, I went back and looked at the LaTech - aTm game with an eye on the play clock. I got through 3 quarters before deciding it was enough. LaTech was playing fast, very fast at times. They usually were snapping in with the clock in the low 20's. They only beat 29 seconds three times - one time on a spike. The other two times were after very short plays. I'd encourage people to watch some of it. It is very hard to beat 29 on the play clock unless you are spiking the ball. This rule is just not going to slow down the offense.


its more that, ideally you wouldnt want to have to worry about snapping the ball too early. even if its twice a game, thats two potential delay of game penalties. its still easier to not have to worry about it at all and just go whenever you're ready to go.
Big C
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calbear93;842283905 said:

I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. It doesn't mean I don't want our program to win. It means that my vicarious enjoyment of their success would go away if I couldn't relate to the program or the athletes. If I thought that they were cheating, the win would feel dirty enough that I wouldn't enjoy the win. I want the team to be smart, take advantage of the rules as they are written without cutting corners or cheating, be hardworking and show good sportsmanship. If I can't respect the team or feel a connection to them (not only in the school attended but also in the type of basic moral standards they are adopting), what is the point of rooting for the program? What do I really get out of their win? If I thought that they were sanctioning exploitation of impressionable co-eds who could one day be my daughter, I would stop supporting the program. I guess that's just me, but a win that I can't be proud of is no win at all.


Yeah, it's kinda like how I feel about the USA in foreign relations, vis a vis other countries: I want to be able to say that we are "the good guys" and be able to believe it in my heart.

Cutting corners and gaming the system? Depends on what it is. Does it pass the "good guy sniff test"?
calbear93
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beeasyed;842283906 said:

i want our athletes to be smart and work hard too. that shouldn't change.

but i wouldn't care if our staff gamed the system and used the NCAA bylaws to its advantage. i'm sure there's plenty to be learned about how powerhouse programs stay powerhouse programs. not all of them involve stashing cash in coffee cups. there's something to be said about the dedication of LSU recruiters flying halfway across the country just to keep an eye on their hs targets going on a last second UCLA OV.

NCAA is a corrupt, self-serving organization that takes advantage of HS athletes. my own standard of ethics of how i act in my workplace doesn't really apply when thinking about how my school can do everything in its power--w/in the damn NCAA framework--to win. everyone within this system is trying to game it, so i'll be damned if my school is the only not attempting to, and proclaiming the moral victory.

i'm sure Stanfurd's med facilities are trying to find new strength-enhancing chemicals/supplements that aren't yet on the NCAA's radar. they're playing to their advantage; we should play to ours, whatever ours is. Cal needs to find out what's our secret sauce, and then use the hell out of it. playing the "we never speak bad about other programs" card only gets you so far.

and then there's the issue of outright cheating. i'm not a fan of it. i would prefer Cal not to do it. i wish we didn't fake injuries against Oregon. i wish we didn't even have to. but the fact is, JT decided to do it, and then when our bad actor was caught, we apologized nationally and finger-blamed To$h. have some balls and deny it like Northwestern. so my original point is the same. whatever Cal decides it needs to do, it needs to be 100% committed to doing it. i'm tired of seeing the administration & staff over the last decade implementing new things and not doing any one thing well. jack of all trades, master at none.


For the most part, I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with building a better mouse trap. In fact, I don't want our coaches to be sheep, just following what everyone else is doing. If they are finding a better, smarter way to play the game within the rules, we should all cheer that type of innovation.

I guess I quoted the wrong post. The following post was what I was really arguing against.

beeasyed;842283747 said:

at the end of the day, as long as it means Cal wins more (w/o threat of sanctions), i'm all for it, whatever it is. hell, i wouldn't even care if Cal cheated or cut some corners--as i'm sure most all college programs do--at this point.


I do care if they cheat. There is no real pride, pleasure or joy in a win or anything else obtained through cheating.

I also do care if they exploit 18 year-old co-eds to convince high school students to join our football program. As a parent, that would **** me off, and I couldn't find joy in rooting for a program like that. At the end of the day, a Cal win doesn't get me a single dollar more in my bank account or provide any tangible benefit other than pride in rooting for a program that I associate with. If I don't want to associate with that program, a win by that program doesn't benefit me at all. So, even if the NCAA and all other programs are corrupt and cheating, I don't want Cal to cheat. Maybe that is naive, but if they had to resort to cheating (if everyone is in fact cheating, the rules are stupid), I would lose all joy in following Cal football.
calbear93
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Big C_Cal;842283915 said:

Yeah, it's kinda like how I feel about the USA in foreign relations, vis a vis other countries: I want to be able to say that we are "the good guys" and be able to believe it in my heart.

Cutting corners and gaming the system? Depends on what it is. Does it pass the "good guy sniff test"?


I think you and I feel the same way about this issue. Football is entertainment. I may empathize with a coach, whose income is dependent on results, being tempted to cheat (not that I would ever feel as if there were any justification for cheating in any voluntary activity), I just don't see how I, as a fan looking to be entertained, would ever be OK with a sports team cheating.
beeasyed
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calbear93;842283916 said:

For the most part, I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with building a better mouse trap. In fact, I don't want our coaches to be sheep, just following what everyone else is doing. If they are finding a better, smarter way to play the game within the rules, we should all cheer that type of innovation.

I guess I quoted the wrong post. The following post was what I was really arguing against.



I do care if they cheat. There is no real pride, pleasure or joy in a win or anything else obtained through cheating.

I also do care if they exploit 18 year-old co-eds to convince high school students to join our football program. As a parent, that would **** me off, and I couldn't find joy in rooting for a program like that. At the end of the day, a Cal win doesn't get me a single dollar more in my bank account or provide any tangible benefit other than pride in rooting for a program that I associate with. If I don't want to associate with that program, a win by that program doesn't benefit me at all. So, even if the NCAA and all other programs are corrupt and cheating, I don't want Cal to cheat. Maybe that is naive, but if they had to resort to cheating (if everyone is in fact cheating, the rules are stupid), I would lose all joy in following Cal football.


haha that first post was a little over the top. i was thinking more about grey areas, loopholes, etc. rather than blatant cheating.

that said, i get your point about not wanting to root for a program that you can't feel good about. that's fair. but i'm tired of seeing Cal being the goody two shoes with nothing to show for itself besides low APR rates and 1-11 at the moment. and yes, i COMPLETELY blame the NCAA for creating an atmosphere that encourages exploitation of rules, skirting the spirit of the law, and gaming the system. but if this is the status quo, then Cal needs to embrace it, and do what it has to do to excel.

and yes, CB93, if i had a daughter, i'd keep her the hell away from hostess organizations, above board or not. :facepalm
calbear93
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beeasyed;842283923 said:

haha that first post was a little over the top. i was thinking more about grey areas, loopholes, etc. rather than blatant cheating.

that said, i get your point about not wanting to root for a program that you can't feel good about. that's fair. but i'm tired of seeing Cal being the goody two shoes with nothing to show for itself besides low APR rates and 1-11 at the moment. and yes, i COMPLETELY blame the NCAA for creating an atmosphere that encourages exploitation of rules, skirting the spirit of the law, and gaming the system. but if this is the status quo, then Cal needs to embrace it, and do what it has to do to excel.

and yes, CB93, if i had a daughter, i'd keep her the hell away from hostess organizations, above board or not. :facepalm


:beer:

:gobears:
DangerBear
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beeasyed;842283923 said:


and yes, CB93, if i had a daughter, i'd keep her the hell away from hostess organizations, above board or not. :facepalm


I thought you trusted me?? :beer:
beeasyed
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DangerBear;842283932 said:

I thought you trusted me?? :beer:


:rollinglaugh: i'm sure if i had a daughter, i'd trust no man.

anyone else is fair game though, line em up!

Cal8285
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OaktownBear;842283910 said:

In order to see whether my claim that Cal's offense won't be impacted is correct, considering that the statement was made that Cal wasn't really running hurry up most of the year the way they want, I went back and looked at the LaTech - aTm game with an eye on the play clock. I got through 3 quarters before deciding it was enough. LaTech was playing fast, very fast at times. They usually were snapping in with the clock in the low 20's. They only beat 29 seconds three times - one time on a spike. The other two times were after very short plays. I'd encourage people to watch some of it. It is very hard to beat 29 on the play clock unless you are spiking the ball. This rule is just not going to slow down the offense.
I haven't gone back to look at any recent games, hurry up offense or no, to see how long it takes the officials to spot the ball. In ancient times before the 40 second clock, the 25 second clock started when the ball was marked ready for play. I didn't pay a lot of attention except when a team was trying to run out the clock at the end of the game. Even with pretty short running plays and the officials moving really fast, the best they would usually do is about 7 seconds. Based on crude observation in those days, 10 seconds was about average, 12 seconds wasn't unusual.

Do officials do this job a lot faster now with the 40 second clock? Did officials act slower in the old days when it only affected when the 25 second clock started? Forget about how long it takes the offense to get set again, the officials also need to get the ball ready for play, another reason why the ball will rarely be snapped with 30 or more seconds left on the play clock.

Rather than this new rule, however, I would like it better if the officials just waited until play clock shows whatever it is they want it to show before they indicated ready for play. Forget about a delay of game penalty, don't give the hurry up offense one more thing to think about. It is already a delay of game penalty if the offense snaps the ball before the officials have given the go ahead for the snap, why not just continue that? If the offense is subbing in players, the referee indicates to hold the snap until the defense has a chance to sub in. Why not also hold the snap until there are 30 seconds left on the clock? Or 29? Or whatever time makes sense? Make things the same as they are now in terms of what can cause the offense to be called for delay of game for snapping too quickly.

If there is anything about the new rule that really bugs me, it is that it hasn't really been well thought out. This isn't a competition committee type thing, where someone has looked at how the game is played and came up with a way to make the game better, more fair, less BS gamesmanship, whatever. If that was the issue, then a lot of different solutions could be looked at and analyzed, including the Oaktown solution of "no looking to the sidelines once lined up."

Instead, it is purported to be a safety thing, with no real basis to say it improves safety other than the "common sense" argument which seems pretty bogus, given that this rule seems backed by those who play a slower pace and opposed by those who play a faster pace. Safety seems to be a load of crap in this discussion. Fake injuries? That should be an issue, but I haven't seen anyone from the committee discussing that issue.

I think it would be good to have new rules that would get rid of all the BS gamesmanship that goes on in connection with the hurry up offense, but some proposed new rule hastily put together by coaches who like to go slow is just more BS gamesmanship. Get people who are sincerely focused on allowing the fast paced offense but getting rid of gamesmanship and looking at safety, and I'll bet that they could come up with a new rule that most fans of college football would support regardless of what offense their team runs. Maybe the proposed rule is OK, but I suspect there are better alternatives, and I know the process by which the new proposed rule was arrived at was BS.
SRBear
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This is a fight of big, strong teams vs quick, conditioned teams. Both want to take advantage of their strengths. This is an attempt at taking away the advantage of a style of play.
BearlyCareAnymore
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Cal8285;842283943 said:

I haven't gone back to look at any recent games, hurry up offense or no, to see how long it takes the officials to spot the ball. In ancient times before the 40 second clock, the 25 second clock started when the ball was marked ready for play. I didn't pay a lot of attention except when a team was trying to run out the clock at the end of the game. Even with pretty short running plays and the officials moving really fast, the best they would usually do is about 7 seconds. Based on crude observation in those days, 10 seconds was about average, 12 seconds wasn't unusual.

Do officials do this job a lot faster now with the 40 second clock? Did officials act slower in the old days when it only affected when the 25 second clock started? Forget about how long it takes the offense to get set again, the officials also need to get the ball ready for play, another reason why the ball will rarely be snapped with 30 or more seconds left on the play clock.

Rather than this new rule, however, I would like it better if the officials just waited until play clock shows whatever it is they want it to show before they indicated ready for play. Forget about a delay of game penalty, don't give the hurry up offense one more thing to think about. It is already a delay of game penalty if the offense snaps the ball before the officials have given the go ahead for the snap, why not just continue that? If the offense is subbing in players, the referee indicates to hold the snap until the defense has a chance to sub in. Why not also hold the snap until there are 30 seconds left on the clock? Or 29? Or whatever time makes sense? Make things the same as they are now in terms of what can cause the offense to be called for delay of game for snapping too quickly.

If there is anything about the new rule that really bugs me, it is that it hasn't really been well thought out. This isn't a competition committee type thing, where someone has looked at how the game is played and came up with a way to make the game better, more fair, less BS gamesmanship, whatever. If that was the issue, then a lot of different solutions could be looked at and analyzed, including the Oaktown solution of "no looking to the sidelines once lined up."

Instead, it is purported to be a safety thing, with no real basis to say it improves safety other than the "common sense" argument which seems pretty bogus, given that this rule seems backed by those who play a slower pace and opposed by those who play a faster pace. Safety seems to be a load of crap in this discussion. Fake injuries? That should be an issue, but I haven't seen anyone from the committee discussing that issue.

I think it would be good to have new rules that would get rid of all the BS gamesmanship that goes on in connection with the hurry up offense, but some proposed new rule hastily put together by coaches who like to go slow is just more BS gamesmanship. Get people who are sincerely focused on allowing the fast paced offense but getting rid of gamesmanship and looking at safety, and I'll bet that they could come up with a new rule that most fans of college football would support regardless of what offense their team runs. Maybe the proposed rule is OK, but I suspect there are better alternatives, and I know the process by which the new proposed rule was arrived at was BS.


You are right about the officials spotting the ball. I think they move faster when the offense is in hurry up, but there were a good number of plays where LaTech was waiting for the spot, and that was after the clock hit 30. Honestly, I think I'd prefer they jus go to the old rule, but I guess the downside is that officials might be accused of intentionally moving slow or fast depending on who is mad.

My issue with calling it gamesmanship for slow play teams to call for this rule is that when you watch it, 10 seconds between plays is extremely fast. If they were really trying to game the situation, they could have proposed something that would slow the game down a lot more. As I said, it is hard to get any play off other than a spike. Or the other alternative is if you are over the ball and you see the defense subbing, you can snap it just to get the penalty. I think the main thing this rule does is give the defense certainty that they have 10 seconds to sub without the offense quick snapping them. That is not much time to sub. Guys who are tired or hurt likely will have to signal the sidelines that they need to come out, let the sideline get a guy ready while the next play goes, and run out at the end of the play. Formation subs will have to be very well orchestrated.

LaTech had aTm's defense chasing even when they were snapping at 20-25 seconds. You simply do not need to snap faster than 10 seconds to play the strategy.
turkey02
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OaktownBear;842283984 said:


LaTech had aTm's defense chasing even when they were snapping at 20-25 seconds. You simply do not need to snap faster than 10 seconds to play the strategy.


So why even have a 10 second rule?
BearlyCareAnymore
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turkey02;842283991 said:

So why even have a 10 second rule?


without it, or something like it, the offense can run up to the line and if the ref spots the ball in 7 seconds, they can quick snap it if the defense is trying to sub. Once at the line, if the defense does not try to sub, the offense can stand up and look at the sideline for the play and can take as much time as they want. In other words, the offense can sub whenever they feel like it and the defense can't sub unless the offense does. If a guy on offense is tired or dinged up, they can sub him out. If a guy on defense is tired or dinged up, they can't until the offense subs. It gives the offense the chance to take advantage of a personnel issue on defense while the defense does not have this chance. IMO, that is not fair.
turkey02
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OaktownBear;842283994 said:

without it, or something like it, the offense can run up to the line and if the ref spots the ball in 7 seconds, they can quick snap it if the defense is trying to sub. Once at the line, if the defense does not try to sub, the offense can stand up and look at the sideline for the play and can take as much time as they want. In other words, the offense can sub whenever they feel like it and the defense can't sub unless the offense does. If a guy on offense is tired or dinged up, they can sub him out. If a guy on defense is tired or dinged up, they can't until the offense subs. It gives the offense the chance to take advantage of a personnel issue on defense while the defense does not have this chance. IMO, that is not fair.


I'd rather just change the rule to 'both sides get a chance to sub' rather than an arbitrary time limit.
calbear93
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turkey02;842283998 said:

I'd rather just change the rule to 'both sides get a chance to sub' rather than an arbitrary time limit.


Other than for the last two minutes of each half, that's what this rule basically does (i.e., allow both sides to sub). However, to ensure that the defense can't unnecessarily delay an offense that is based on moving quickly and developing a pace, the defense, if it chooses to sub, must sub during the first 10 seconds. This requires the defenses to be organized and quick but does allow them to sub even if the offense chooses not to sub. The only real objection to this rule would be that it prevents offense from dictating when teams on either side may make substitution. For some teams, this was an important advantage enjoyed by offense, and the proposed change to the rule hurts certain teams that took advantage of this control granted to the offense.
Cal8285
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OaktownBear;842283984 said:

. . . My issue with calling it gamesmanship for slow play teams to call for this rule is that when you watch it, 10 seconds between plays is extremely fast. If they were really trying to game the situation, they could have proposed something that would slow the game down a lot more. . . .
It wouldn't be gamesmanship to call for the rule next year, it is gamesmanship to do it this year.

This year, the only rule changes that can be approved are ones that involve player safety. So, rather than say, "This proposed rule makes it a better, more fair game, and will decrease fake injuries," they argued, "This is needed for player safety," and therefore had to come up with a rule that didn't look like it was necessarily trying to address fairness or competition or gamesmanship issues. Otherwise, they would have had to play by the rules and wait until next year to seek a rule change.

It looks like Troy Calhoun, chair of the Football Rules Committee, is figuring this out, and now says that unless there is actually evidence that there is a safety issue, unless there is certainty that there is a safety issue this will help, the change won't happen this year. Saban's and Bielema's self-serving statements that this is needed for safety shouldn't substitute for medical evidence.

Guys like Gus Malzahn and Mike Leach have engaged in BS on their side, they have greatly overstated how much this rule will change the game, but Malzahn and Leach and Sonny are right that the safety issue is BS, and Saban and Bielema saying it is needed for player safety are engaging in total BS gamesmanship in order to get a change made now instead of next year. If they wait until next year, they can get rid of the BS safety arguments and start making the kind of arguments you are making, about what is best for the game of college football, and probably come up with a rule that you and I will both like better than the current proposal.
gobears725
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Cal8285;842284178 said:

It wouldn't be gamesmanship to call for the rule next year, it is gamesmanship to do it this year.

This year, the only rule changes that can be approved are ones that involve player safety. So, rather than say, "This proposed rule makes it a better, more fair game, and will decrease fake injuries," they argued, "This is needed for player safety," and therefore had to come up with a rule that didn't look like it was necessarily trying to address fairness or competition or gamesmanship issues. Otherwise, they would have had to play by the rules and wait until next year to seek a rule change.

It looks like Troy Calhoun, chair of the Football Rules Committee, is figuring this out, and now says that unless there is actually evidence that there is a safety issue, unless there is certainty that there is a safety issue this will help, the change won't happen this year. Saban's and Bielema's self-serving statements that this is needed for safety shouldn't substitute for medical evidence.

Guys like Gus Malzahn and Mike Leach have engaged in BS on their side, they have greatly overstated how much this rule will change the game, but Malzahn and Leach and Sonny are right that the safety issue is BS, and Saban and Bielema saying it is needed for player safety are engaging in total BS gamesmanship in order to get a change made now instead of next year. If they wait until next year, they can get rid of the BS safety arguments and start making the kind of arguments you are making, about what is best for the game of college football, and probably come up with a rule that you and I will both like better than the current proposal.


+1, this thing just reeks of Saban throwing his weight around. i dont believe that there is any way that they can prove that this is a safety issue as far as stats are concerned. the issue of fairness may be a valid argument, but save it for when they are supposed to look at the issue.
 
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