Quote:

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"The A’s have won by having the smallest payroll, no superstars and a great team," Dykes says.

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...he compares your team to the Oakland A's (a very successful franchise, not hating on the A's, A's fans. It's just that very few teams have been able to replicate that success).

I do not take this as a good sign.


Edit: I sure some will jump on me, so let me elaborate. Last year was obviously not good. There is not much enthusiasm in the fanbase. I was not able to attend any spring practices or the spring game, so I had to rely on recaps from others. Considering we came off a 1-11 seasons, hopes are understandably low - it's always tough to tell what kind of team you have when they're playing themselves, so you tend to assume not too much of a change from the year before, especially with much the same personnel. But even the most optimistic people seem to think 4-6 wins - which is not good.

Dykes did say we were better than last year - I read that on twitter. It's hard to say if he meant we are better than we were last Spring or last season. Either way - this reference to the A's sounds like desperate rationalizing. To me it says our coach thinks we lack talent. If that's true, we are in for another long year, in all likelihood. I'd love to be proven wrong.

Better than Hoosiers

grandmastapoop;842310862 said:

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...he compares your team to the Oakland A's (a very successful franchise, not hating on the A's, A's fans. It's just that very few teams have been able to replicate that success).

I do not take this as a good sign.


Edit: I sure some will jump on me, so let me elaborate. Last year was obviously not good. There is not much enthusiasm in the fanbase. I was not able to attend any spring practices or the spring game, so I had to rely on recaps from others. Considering we came off a 1-11 seasons, hopes are understandably low - it's always tough to tell what kind of team you have when they're playing themselves, so you tend to assume not too much of a change from the year before, especially with much the same personnel. But even the most optimistic people seem to think 4-6 wins - which is not good.

Dykes did say we were better than last year - I read that on twitter. It's hard to say if he meant we are better than we were last Spring or last season. Either way - this reference to the A's sounds like desperate rationalizing. To me it says our coach thinks we lack talent. If that's true, we are in for another long year, in all likelihood. I'd love to be proven wrong.

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Saying we lack talent in this manner is a pretty subtle way of trying to protect your coaching turf. The problem, obviously, is this isn't the NFL where you can blame your GM for not getting you players and this isn't a lower league where there is no recruiting. It's D1 college football where you can go out and recruit talent and then coach them up to win. The bottomline is that Sonny has to win. I only wonder what kind of season he has to have to avoid a really, really hot seat.

The analogy plays if you think of 4-5 star players as the 'big time free agents' and they're likely to go to the usual suspects. With some success Cal's going to be in contention for them from time to time, but the reality is Cal needs to win by recruiting and targeting the right mix of 3 star and some 4 star level kids and putting together a team rather than a roster of kids ranked by scout/rivals/247/espn.

I think you missed the point. Comparing to the A's is somewhat appropriate. Cal is limited in its ability to compete against big time programs like U$C, Alabama and Ohio State. We do not have a strong football tradition. We do not have a rabid fan base. We do not have unlimited financial contribution from wealthy alumni/donor. We have strict academic standards. Therefore it's tough for us to attract top athletes. Do you really think we're the top 3 choices for most 4/5 star athletes?

You know your coach is desperate when his team doesn't win a single meaningful game. He should be desperate, and worried. Certainly concerned.

You can read whatever u want out that quote

Sonny let Tosh recruit idiots. Sonny let Teddy recruit only Elite 11's.

If Sonny's Freshmen and Redshirt Freshmen can't win at least 15 games, I say fire him!

After all, I went to Cal!

:woohoo:rant:woohoo

It's a poor analogy but I do get it. Sonny is pitching the team concept and winning with 2 star players.

Sure it's possible...in the WAC, MWC or Conference USA.

Boise St is a good example of this. The thing is, they play 1.5 decent teams a season from a major conference and get fat on the rest of their schedule. It's simply not the same in the Pac12 where the level of play is higher, and just about any team can beat another team on a given Saturday (minus our Golden Bears).

Any way, winning solves many things and that's pretty much the only way out of the hole here. I'm supporting Sonny Dykes because he's Cal's coach...but yeah, I'm a little skeptical about the coming season.

man, there are waaaay better quotes or observations than that to make your argument.

negativity fail.

Well, we DO lack talent this season. What the heck is he supposed to say?

We're probably less-than-conference-average at most every position except receiver. Some positions, like DL, maybe we're average or above IF we get a perfect storm of recovery-from-injury, otherwise forget about it.

The paradox is that there's pretty much NOTHING that Sonny Dykes can say right now that can please most people... and yet, as the face of the program, he's got to be out there saying something.

There's only one thing that's going to do the trick: Visible improvement on the field. Absolute minimum of three wins this fall, combined with passing the "eye test" of being fairly well-coached and being more competitive. (Continued academic progress and stemming the tide of early departures is a given.)

That said, I'm not sure what good it does to pick apart everything he says to the media.

I really want Dykes to succeed.

grandmastapoop;842310862 said:

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...he compares your team to the Oakland A's (a very successful franchise, not hating on the A's, A's fans. It's just that very few teams have been able to replicate that success).

I do not take this as a good sign.


Edit: I sure some will jump on me, so let me elaborate. Last year was obviously not good. There is not much enthusiasm in the fanbase. I was not able to attend any spring practices or the spring game, so I had to rely on recaps from others. Considering we came off a 1-11 seasons, hopes are understandably low - it's always tough to tell what kind of team you have when they're playing themselves, so you tend to assume not too much of a change from the year before, especially with much the same personnel. But even the most optimistic people seem to think 4-6 wins - which is not good.

Dykes did say we were better than last year - I read that on twitter. It's hard to say if he meant we are better than we were last Spring or last season. Either way - this reference to the A's sounds like desperate rationalizing. To me it says our coach thinks we lack talent. If that's true, we are in for another long year, in all likelihood. I'd love to be proven wrong.

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My issue with the quote is that the players we're leaning on to win for next season are actual "all-stars/superstars" or close to it in a sense as they are the 4-stars (5-star for Treggs from Scout) that were recruited by Tedford. Guys like Scarlett, Jalil, Sebastian, McClure, Treggs, Lawler, Goff, Lasco (high 3, low 4), and Barton (Sorry if I forgot anyone).

I agree with the idea that a Boise State is much more apt to compare to the A's since they succeeded in the past by taking 2-stars and recruits that were not identified as key components by other teams.

The A's don't lack talent and they have superior management...that's where the comparisons falter.

"There are rich teams and there are poor teams and then theres 50 feet of crap and then there's us."

so basically he thinks that we are worse than crap. 0-12!!!

StillNoStanfurdium;842310890 said:

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My issue with the quote is that the players we're leaning on to win for next season are actual "all-stars/superstars" or close to it in a sense as they are the 4-stars (5-star for Treggs from Scout) that were recruited by Tedford. Guys like Scarlett, Jalil, Sebastian, McClure, Treggs, Lawler, Goff, Lasco (high 3, low 4), and Barton (Sorry if I forgot anyone).

I agree with the idea that a Boise State is much more apt to compare to the A's since they succeeded in the past by taking 2-stars and recruits that were not identified as key components by other teams.

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Scarlett and Jalil haven't played a down for Dykes. Sebastian had less than half a game. Treggs, Lawler, Goff, Lasco (maybe a 4 star) and Barton (4 star?) were all underclassmen last season some are still underclassmen this season. Where are all the other stars that Tedford recruited to fill our pipeline?

Teams very rarely do well when they have to rely on so many underclassmen "stars" with little upperclass support.

GB54;842310892 said:

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The A's don't lack talent and they have superior management...that's where the comparisons falter.

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Right on !

slider643;842310909 said:

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Scarlett and Jalil haven't played a down for Dykes. Sebastian had less than half a game. Treggs, Lawler, Goff, Lasco (maybe a 4 star) and Barton (4 star?) were all underclassmen last season some are still underclassmen this season. Where are all the other stars that Tedford recruited to fill our pipeline?

Teams very rarely do well when they have to rely on so many underclassmen "stars" with little upperclass support.

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I'm not sure what your point is. I'm saying that the talent that we're expecting to show improvement is by and large from high school recruits that were projected to do well at the next level.

If we were really more like the A's we'd be leaning on a bunch of diamond in the rough 2 and 3 stars to do better than anyone would predict. My issue was with underselling the talent that's on the team.

Not "rationalizing," just lowering expectations.

StillNoStanfurdium;842310912 said:

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I'm not sure what your point is. I'm saying that the talent that we're expecting to show improvement is by and large from high school recruits that were projected to do well at the next level.

If we were really more like the A's we'd be leaning on a bunch of diamond in the rough 2 and 3 stars to do better than anyone would predict. My issue was with underselling the talent that's on the team.

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My point is that we're having to rely far too heavily on underclassmen, stars or not.

Last season, this season and probably next season we will be very similar to A's. We'll be relying on up and coming players just as the A's rely on them before they sign a big contract and go elsewhere.

What's next, a "Hoosiers" analogy?

slider643;842310916 said:

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My point is that we're having to rely far too heavily on underclassmen, stars or not.

Last season, this season and probably next season we will be very similar to A's. We'll be relying on up and coming players just as the A's rely on them before they sign a big contract and go elsewhere.

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Ah, I was thinking more along the lines of Moneyball A's having to pick up undervalued players rather than the angle of developing young players and having them go elsewhere.

So your saying there's a chance

Big C_Cal;842310884 said:

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Well, we DO lack talent this season. What the heck is he supposed to say?

We're probably less-than-conference-average at most every position except receiver. Some positions, like DL, maybe we're average or above IF we get a perfect storm of recovery-from-injury, otherwise forget about it.

The paradox is that there's pretty much NOTHING that Sonny Dykes can say right now that can please most people... and yet, as the face of the program, he's got to be out there saying something.

There's only one thing that's going to do the trick: Visible improvement on the field. Absolute minimum of three wins this fall, combined with passing the "eye test" of being fairly well-coached and being more competitive. (Continued academic progress and stemming the tide of early departures is a given.)

That said, I'm not sure what good it does to pick apart everything he says to the media.

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+1

Big C_Cal;842310884 said:

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Well, we DO lack talent this season. What the heck is he supposed to say?

We're probably less-than-conference-average at most every position except receiver. Some positions, like DL, maybe we're average or above IF we get a perfect storm of recovery-from-injury, otherwise forget about it.

The paradox is that there's pretty much NOTHING that Sonny Dykes can say right now that can please most people... and yet, as the face of the program, he's got to be out there saying something.

There's only one thing that's going to do the trick: Visible improvement on the field. Absolute minimum of three wins this fall, combined with passing the "eye test" of being fairly well-coached and being more competitive. (Continued academic progress and stemming the tide of early departures is a given.)

That said, I'm not sure what good it does to pick apart everything he says to the media.

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This is fair. And, I assure you, I'm more positive than most. But when I saw that quote I made an audible groan. It's almost like a 6'4 PF in college telling scouts that he's the next Charles Barkley. Yeah, well. That's not very reassuring.

82gradDLSdad;842310870 said:

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Saying we lack talent in this manner is a pretty subtle way of trying to protect your coaching turf. The problem, obviously, is this isn't the NFL where you can blame your GM for not getting you players and this isn't a lower league where there is no recruiting. It's D1 college football where you can go out and recruit talent and then coach them up to win. The bottomline is that Sonny has to win. I only wonder what kind of season he has to have to avoid a really, really hot seat.

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Exactly. Last year at this time Sonny said the talent was there and that we would surprise some people. If he knew what he was doing he would have recognized a talent deficiency, adjusted his system to play to their strengths and recruited to correct the deficient areas. He's failed on those fronts.

Plus comparing yourself to the A's is absurd. Beane and Alderson who hired him, Depodesta, Forst are nothing short of brilliant; Sonny and Co., not so much.

The reason why it doesn't matter what example Dykes uses is because it doesn't really matter what he says to the press at all.

He's going to be judged this season for his performance on the field. After 1-11, another sh*t season isn't going to save him, whether or not his analogy to the A's is accurate. If he has a good season, all the things he has said will be validated. If not, everything he has said will be interpreted as lies.

All comes down to winning. Everything else is just filler.

Big C_Cal;842310884 said:

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Well, we DO lack talent this season. What the heck is he supposed to say?

We're probably less-than-conference-average at most every position except receiver. Some positions, like DL, maybe we're average or above IF we get a perfect storm of recovery-from-injury, otherwise forget about it.

The paradox is that there's pretty much NOTHING that Sonny Dykes can say right now that can please most people... and yet, as the face of the program, he's got to be out there saying something.

There's only one thing that's going to do the trick: Visible improvement on the field. Absolute minimum of three wins this fall, combined with passing the "eye test" of being fairly well-coached and being more competitive. (Continued academic progress and stemming the tide of early departures is a given.)

That said, I'm not sure what good it does to pick apart everything he says to the media.

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We lack talent not because of being in a small market but because of Dykes and his coaching staff. Some talent left because of the coaching staff's incompetence and the coaching staff didn't recruit well enough over the last year to bring in sufficient talent. We probably have less talent than a year ago--eg, no NFL ready DL like Deandre Coleman.

beeasyed;842310974 said:

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The reason why it doesn't matter what example Dykes uses is because it doesn't really matter what he says to the press at all.

He's going to be judged this season for his performance on the field. After 1-11, another sh*t season isn't going to save him, whether or not his analogy to the A's is accurate. If he has a good season, all the things he has said will be validated. If not, everything he has said will be interpreted as lies.

All comes down to winning. Everything else is just filler.

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Then he should STFU and focus on coaching instead of wasting energy coming up with stupid analogies.

Looperbear;842310975 said:

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We lack talent not because of being in a small market but because of Dykes and his coaching staff. Some talent left because of the coaching staff's incompetence and the coaching staff didn't recruit well enough over the last year to bring in sufficient talent. We probably have less talent than a year ago--eg, no NFL ready DL like Deandre Coleman.

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While that is true, it's hard to accurately divide the blame between the implosion of the season, vs. staff's recruiting abilities(or lack thereof). of course--that assumes the implosion isn't 100% the fault of the staff to begin with. i don't think most self-respecting blue chips would want to play for a team that fired its winningest HC then went 1-11 under the new staff.

Looperbear;842310976 said:

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Then he should STFU and focus on coaching instead of wasting energy coming up with stupid analogies.

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I have no problem with your recommendation. But you know damn well that if he just stuck to one-liners and the usual coachspeak, another group of posters will then complain that "one year and he already sounds like JT."

Like I mentioned--doesn't matter what he says. So I guess you rather not have any interviews at all then?

Pointless and stupid post, even for your standards. That he went 1-11 is reason to believe he may be in over his head or desperate. This innocuous comment is the least of our concerns.

SurvivorOf1and10fkaLEA;842310978 said:

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Pointless and stupid post, even for your standards. That he went 1-11 is reason to believe he may be in over his head or desperate. This innocuous comment is the least of our concerns.

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:acclaim:

Looperbear;842310975 said:

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We lack talent not because of being in a small market but because of Dykes and his coaching staff. Some talent left because of the coaching staff's incompetence and the coaching staff didn't recruit well enough over the last year to bring in sufficient talent. We probably have less talent than a year ago--eg, no NFL ready DL like Deandre Coleman.

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So you're saying that Dykes FR recruits should have lead us to glory last season? And the incoming FR this season should lead us to glory this season?

I'll have what you're smoking.

slider643;842310980 said:

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I'll have what you're smoking.

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I wouldn't. Sounds like a bad buzz.

slider643;842310980 said:

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So you're saying that Dykes FR recruits should have lead us to glory last season? And the incoming FR this season should lead us to glory this season?

I'll have what you're smoking.

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Any lack of talent last year was on his predecessor. Not entirely true this year. Ex: JT came in here and saw a lack of talent, particularly team speed. Look at his first class, it was full of JUCOs and he kept the desirable talent that had been left to him in part by showing he was more competent than his predecessor.