I'd like your opinions. My granddaughter lives in a small CT town and is considering colleges to attend. She is a jr in HS, 2220 SAT, beautiful, strong (field hockey, shot, discus, jav), interested in engineering, but wants options, a loving, grown up, classy kid. Interested in a middle size school.

We have relatives in SCAL that she has visited and has taken a liking to the place. She will be visiting UCSD, CSLB (she may not know the size of this place) and Loyola Marymount this summer. Don't ask my why those 3 and not others, but she would be open to suggestions, I guess.

I would appreciate your thoughts on those 3 and other suggestions. I have my own thoughts about them, but I'm trying to keep my mouth shut. My daughter has asked for your input. Thanks.

If you can go to the clearly better school then you should.

Cslb will be too easy for her and she will be uninspired.
Loyola, just a paid for degree.

Of the 3, ucsd is clearly the better school reputation wise.

Is she only choosing schools by how much they party?

If she wants to live in SoCal she should go to USC

A great SAT and an interest in engineering. For a middle size school or schools I might suggest the Claremont Colleges, Pomona, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd. They are prestigious and in SoCal. However, the choices you mentioned are all a stones throw from the beach and Claremont is not. In that realm is Pepperdine in Malibu.

If not Cal, how about a NoCal school such as UCSC in a dramatic setting near the Pacific and with good connections to Silicon Valley. Of course, I would not recommend UCSB under present circumstances.

tommie317;842320831 said:

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If you can go to the clearly better school then you should.

Cslb will be too easy for her and she will be uninspired.
Loyola, just a paid for degree.

Of the 3, ucsd is clearly the better school reputation wise.

Is she only choosing schools by how much they party?

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Party? Hah. She's never even had a date; has no idea how beautiful she is; wouldn't think of partying - a very humble kid.

dajo9;842320833 said:

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If she wants to live in SoCal she should go to USC

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What about UCLA?

Her SAT is way too high to go to LMU or LB State. You need to sell her on Cal!

The difference between those schools and Cal is monumental (less so with UCSD). She seems to have the qualifications, why undersell herself? For a great education and total college experience I would suggest Cal, UCD, UCLA, USC (kills me suggesting the latter two, but this is for her). Is she set against NorCal, or does Cal have some vibe from her distance that doesn't ring well?

OdontoBear66;842320845 said:

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.....or does Cal have some vibe from her distance that doesn't ring well?

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Her first read of Bear Insider was less than positive....

I would not recommend a Cal State school for an out of state applicant. It simply isn't worth the cost. She should seriously consider whether she would do better at an R-1 institution (UC) or a teaching college (Cal States, many smaller private schools).

If you and/or her parents can easily afford to send her anywhere, then I would recommend that she attend the best school that will take her.

Reed College in Portland, OR. or Pomona College in SoCal.

Screw those schools, screw So Cal.....tell her there is only one legitimate option in the state. Go Bears!

6bear6;842320834 said:

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A great SAT and an interest in engineering. For a middle size school or schools I might suggest the Claremont Colleges, Pomona, Pitzer, Harvey Mudd. They are prestigious and in SoCal. However, the choices you mentioned are all a stones throw from the beach and Claremont is not. In that realm is Pepperdine in Malibu.

If not Cal, how about a NoCal school such as UCSC in a dramatic setting near the Pacific and with good connections to Silicon Valley. Of course, I would not recommend UCSB under present circumstances.

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+1

The list of recruiters at the Claremont colleges are unmatched in CA except by Cal, Furd, UCLA and perhaps USC.

Isn't the choice obvious? CalTech

2200+ SAT, engineer? It would be a travesty to attend a Cal State or LMU... i doubt she would find the environment stimulating (socially and academically). If she wants SoCal she needs to be looking at UCLA, USC, UCSD,Harvey Mudd, and depending on how competitive her GPA and extracurricular are, Cal Tech.

But come on, the credited answer is Cal.

slider643;842320858 said:

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+1

The list of recruiters at the Claremont colleges are unmatched in CA except by Cal, Furd, UCLA and perhaps USC.

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That may be true for Pomona and CMC, but I'm almost certain UCSD does better than the rest. Plus Pomona and CMC don't offer engineering, Harvey Mudd does,and it is a decent school.

tommie317;842320860 said:

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Isn't the choice obvious? CalTech

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2200 SAT to CalTech? Good luck with that.

She should vist Cal Poly SLO. Strong engineering. Upper middle class environment. She will date.

Rushinbear;842320830 said:

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I'd like your opinions. My granddaughter lives in a small CT town and is considering colleges to attend. She is a jr in HS, 2220 SAT, beautiful, strong (field hockey, shot, discus, jav), interested in engineering, but wants options, a loving, grown up, classy kid. Interested in a middle size school.

We have relatives in SCAL that she has visited and has taken a liking to the place. She will be visiting UCSD, CSLB (she may not know the size of this place) and Loyola Marymount this summer. Don't ask my why those 3 and not others, but she would be open to suggestions, I guess.

I would appreciate your thoughts on those 3 and other suggestions. I have my own thoughts about them, but I'm trying to keep my mouth shut. My daughter has asked for your input. Thanks.

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Bobodeluxe has already mentioned Cal Poly SLO, and I want to chip in my two cents worth for the same school.

Cal Poly SLO (linked) has a strong engineering program with an excellent reputation throughout the United States. Cal Poly SLO also has, what many consider to be, the premier program in construction management in the Western US.

The campus is set apart from San Luis Obispo but is still accessible by the city bus system. The campus is very walkable and many students ride bikes around campus. There is also off-campus housing close to campus, although freshmen are required to live on-campus (or so I believe).

Why is it that I know something about Cal Poly SLO? I know engineers who earned their degree from that fine institution.

Also, my sons are enrolled there (the older son will be a senior in Business Administration in the fall, while the younger son will be a freshman in Journalism and Media at the same time).

oskihasahearton;842320856 said:

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Reed College in Portland, OR. or Pomona College in SoCal.

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Yes...and especially Cal Poly @ SLO.

tommie317;842320860 said:

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Isn't the choice obvious? CalTech

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This. Plus she'll be surrounded by guys so getting a date will be easy peasy.

oskihasahearton;842320856 said:

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Reed College in Portland, OR. or Pomona College in SoCal.

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My understanding of Reed is that although academically exceptional that it is "geeked" out to the extreme. Know instances of kids who left because of the "ambiance".

OdontoBear66;842320903 said:

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My understanding of Reed is that although academically exceptional that it is "geeked" out to the extreme. Know instances of kids who left because of the "ambiance".

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My classmates, friends and associates (and family) who are "Reedies" are very bright and creative people who remain closely tied to the college and their undergraduate experience. It is a "garden" for independent thinkers. It is not for everybody (what college is) but it is definitely worth a visit and consideration. Also, Portland is a great small city, especially for young people.

FiatSlug;842320874 said:

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Bobodeluxe has already mentioned Cal Poly SLO, and I want to chip in my two cents worth for the same school.

Cal Poly SLO (linked) has a strong engineering program with an excellent reputation throughout the United States. Cal Poly SLO also has, what many consider to be, the premier program in construction management in the Western US.

The campus is set apart from San Luis Obispo but is still accessible by the city bus system. The campus is very walkable and many students ride bikes around campus. There is also off-campus housing close to campus, although freshmen are required to live on-campus (or so I believe).

Why is it that I know something about Cal Poly SLO? I know engineers who earned their degree from that fine institution.

Also, my sons are enrolled there (the older son will be a senior in Business Administration in the fall, while the younger son will be a freshman in Journalism and Media at the same time).

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I have to agree on this one. I am a Cal Poly SLO engineering grad and I can't say enough good things about my experience. It would at least be worth a visit.

Agree with all the Cal Poly SLO recommendations. Engineering school has an excellent reputation (as do various other programs there), the weather is awesome, location and community are great. Lived there for 20 years and loved it, as does everyone who lives there. Also, SLO was found a couple of years ago to be the "the happiest town in America!" How can you beat that? I suggest they visit on a Thursday so as to enjoy the downtown Farmer's Market that starts at 6 pm. All the best to her wherever she goes.

I wouldn't recommend going to California and attending a college that nobody on the east coast has heard of unless she is planning on staying out here. But that may naturally follow.

Another vote for Cal Poly SLO. Both my sons are recent Cal Poly grads, one in Materials Engineering and one in Industrial Technology (which is in the business school), and had great experiences. Good labs. Engaged faculty. You get engineering classes your first year (unlike most UCs where you get none your freshman year and only 2-3 your soph). Lots of TEAM projects at Cal Poly and this is important! When your (was it cousin or niece?) walks into a technical job, she'll be part of a team, so why go to a school where the kids are so conditioned to compete for the best grade that they don't know how to cooperate? Unfortunately, I've heard from a couple of recent Cal students that this is what the vibe in the engineering college is like now.

Worried that a "state school" is not as competitive as UCs? Cal Poly's SAT/ACT for 2012 freshman are comparable or better than all UCs except Berkeley and UCLA. And frankly, UCLA's engineering school is not a standout. As for job prospects, one son was hired as an engineer at Solyndra and the other, who graduated last June, is an engineer at Tesla (after summer interships at Apple). And, both graduated in 4 years.

One tip to pass along, regardless of the school: she should consider applying to one of the lesser-known engineering majors. The key is to get accepted to the engineering college, so apply to the majors that aren't as well known, where there's less competition for a slot. Once she's in, switching is easy. My younger son applied in Materials Engineering and liked it so much he never switched (that was my major at Cal, as well).

I've gone on too long, but one last anecdote. We were down there one time and saw a student riding around the engineering buildings on an obviously home-made recumbent carbon fiber bike. That's the kind of real engineering projects that undergrads get to take on at Cal Poly.

Given those three options, UCSD is definitely the best choice. Given her engineering interest and her SAT scores, why isn't she considering Cal Tech in Pasadena? Of course, Cal and UCLA would also be good choices, as would be Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo.

Rushinbear;842320830 said:

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We have relatives in SCAL that she has visited and has taken a liking to the place. She will be visiting UCSD, CSLB (she may not know the size of this place) and Loyola Marymount this summer. Don't ask my why those 3 and not others, but she would be open to suggestions, I guess.

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Claremont-McKenna or Cal Tech.

If she wants to go small, Claremont Colleges. If she wants to go big, UCLA or UCSD. I would encourage her to visit there along with the Berkeley campus before getting too set on a specific geography.

Youth is great in its excitement and preconceived notions. She really does not know California. Why not give it a try out? Bet she would wind up in Nor Cal with the obvious SoCal choices UCLA, UCSD, Claremont, etc.

Cannot see that Cal, Davis, or SLO would not blow all of them away for a total college experience, unless the young lady was taken with Hollywood's glamour, which I cannot fathom or measure.

OdontoBear66;842321001 said:

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Youth is great in its excitement and preconceived notions. She really does not know California. Why not give it a try out? Bet she would wind up in Nor Cal with the obvious SoCal choices UCLA, UCSD, Claremont, etc.

Cannot see that Cal, Davis, or SLO would not blow all of them away for a total college experience, unless the young lady was taken with Hollywood's glamour, which I cannot fathom or measure.

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I don't think Reed has engineering, and those scores probably won't get her into CalTech, Mudd, or Cal Engineering. USC, UCLA, Cal Poly SLO, UCSD, UCD would be great options. The other Claremont schools are much more liberal arts/business oriented. Another option is Lewis & Clark in Portland which is a very good school and not nearly as geeky as Reed.

Another +1 for Cal Poly SLO for all the reasons above. If she's coming out I'd definitely recommend adding it to the list... Some of the strongest engineering alums I've worked with and it seems to be very much inline with her desired qualifications.

Is Cal-Poly SLO a Research-1 (R-1) institution?

More so than the name and reputation, I think this is one of the most important things that college applicants need to figure out. Are they best suited for a teaching college (which most of the Cal States are) or a research institution?

A teaching college means that the professors have higher teaching loads and thus are not able to research and publish very much. They might teach 3 or 4 classes per semester. With this tremendous load, they aren't making significant new discoveries. These institutions tend to assign less reading and lab work to their students. The primary mode of instruction is the teacher him or herself, with the help of textbooks. There is much less original research. This is the model that virtually all High Schools follow, so it is a fairly easy transition for many incoming freshmen.

A R-1 institution means that the professors are evaluated far more on research than they are on teaching. They have much smaller teaching loads (typically 2 classes per semester, but sometimes even less). The professors get more substantial and more frequent sabbaticals, and more research money. They tend to assign more far original research to their students. And they more truly original insights to share. Textbooks are not employed as much. Often times, these new discoveries can lead to very vibrant learning experiences for students. But as we all experienced at Cal, occasionally it leads to a disconnected or distracted professor who realizes that the end-of-semester evaluations will not determine whether they get tenure or not.

We have all seen students with 4.4 HS GPAs who have crashed and burned at Cal. We have also all seen students who were terrible at HS, but who truly excelled once they eventually got to Cal. I think a lot of this has to do with the different model of education. Some kids thrive at a teaching college. Others at a R-1 institution.

There are very good teaching colleges. And there are very good R-1 institutions. There are very bad teaching colleges. And there are very bad R-1 institutions.

My advice is to talk to your granddaughter about what sort of learning environment she thinks she would excel in. Then find the school in that category that works best for her. But comparing a teaching college (CSULB) and a R-1 school like UCSD doesn't make a lot of sense.

It is fairly easy to tell if a university is an R-1 or a teaching institution. Just call the admissions department and ask how many classes each faculty teaches per semester. More than 2 = teaching college.

Rushinbear;842320830 said:

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I'd like your opinions. My granddaughter lives in a small CT town and is considering colleges to attend. She is a jr in HS, 2220 SAT, beautiful, strong (field hockey, shot, discus, jav), interested in engineering, but wants options, a loving, grown up, classy kid. Interested in a middle size school.

We have relatives in SCAL that she has visited and has taken a liking to the place. She will be visiting UCSD, CSLB (she may not know the size of this place) and Loyola Marymount this summer. Don't ask my why those 3 and not others, but she would be open to suggestions, I guess.

I would appreciate your thoughts on those 3 and other suggestions. I have my own thoughts about them, but I'm trying to keep my mouth shut. My daughter has asked for your input. Thanks.

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Thank you, one and all. I have passed along your thoughts to my daughter who will take it from here.

I am staying away from direct conversation about this unless asked. My granddaughter has two other sets of grandparents, all well-educated. Each of them has been unabashedly selling their school to her and the onslaught has become overwhelming. So, in the interest of reducing the pressure and according her the space to make her own decision, my daughter is serving as the go-between. Seems to be working better; maybe not in as timely a way, but what good is impatience anyway?

I appreciate the time you took to give such thoughtful feedback.

I also second SLO. In every team competition while I was a member of SHPE, SLO was always our toughest competition in the state.

CSULB isn't as bad as you might think, many grads are doing very well alongside me at Northrop Grumman.

UCSD is good, but jeez is it depressing. No culture, no social scene.

Is it easier to get into Cal Tech as a female? 2200 probably won't cut it for most applicants. If she wants to look outside California perhaps MIT would be an option.