US Patent Office Cancels Washington Redskins Trademark

17,586 Views | 145 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by OldBlue1999
sycasey
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PappyVW65;842326521 said:

What's interesting to me is that no one gave two shits about this topic for the good part of 81 years until the media decided to make it an issue and bring the political posturing baggage with it.



Yeah well, people were a lot more racist for the better part of the last 81 years. It's called progress.
GB54
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CalZebra2012;842326533 said:

Wonder if Harry Reid will ask this Navajo high school (on the reservation) to change it's name from "Redskins" to something else. The are clearly behind the times and engaged in self-directed racism because they are using a racial slur to describe themselves. We have to help them.

http://rmusdhs.ss4.sharpschool.com/home


Good. Let Snyder sell 51% to the Indians and keep the name.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326541 said:

Yeah well, people were a lot more racist for the better part of the last 81 years. It's called progress.


Really?
Vandalus
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sycasey;842326358 said:

My point here is that there is something inherently offensive about some of these words. Words have meaning. Yes, the context can change that meaning sometimes, but I don't think it's true to say that the meaning only comes from intent. There is a certain inherent meaning it carries. The N-word carries a meaning. A rap artist like Kanye West may be changing that meaning in context, in the sense of "taking it back," but that contextual meaning still kind of relies upon the original meaning, which is that of an offensive racial slur.

So if you are going to use a word like "Redskin" to name a football team, you'd better have a really, REALLY good reason. I haven't really heard one yet.


93gobears
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CalZebra2012;842326533 said:

Wonder if Harry Reid will ask this Navajo high school (on the reservation) to change it's name from "Redskins" to something else. The are clearly behind the times and engaged in self-directed racism because they are using a racial slur to describe themselves. We have to help them.

http://rmusdhs.ss4.sharpschool.com/home


And when I fill out any government form that asks about race and my options are White do I complain?

White, the color of my skin.
sycasey
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93gobears;842326544 said:

Really?


I don't understand the question. You're asking if the country was more racist in the past than it is now?
GMP
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93gobears;842326548 said:

And when I fill out any government form that asks about race and my options are White do I complain?

White, the color of my skin.


An intelligent and substantive contributions as usual, 93gobears.

/sarcasm
93gobears
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Vandalus;842326547 said:




Don't you know that you can't say ****** on BI?
YuSeeBerkeley
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GB54;842326479 said:

For someone who claims not to be bothered by names you seem very bothered.


Why, because I called out your faulty logic and your hypocrisy? And when did I say I'm not bothered by names? Nice straw man argument.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326550 said:

I don't understand the question. You're asking if the country was more racist in the past than it is now?


You said people were more racist 81 years ago.
Vandalus
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93gobears;842326553 said:

Don't you know that you can't say ****** on BI?


I was just adding discourse to this academic discussion.
sycasey
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Vandalus;842326547 said:




That's a great bit. FWIW, I would use the actual word on here if it wasn't sure to be bleeped out by the software.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326559 said:

That's a great bit. FWIW, I would use the actual word on here if it wasn't sure to be bleeped out by the software.


Thanks for stealing my jokes, Dane Cook.
Cal_Fan2
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sycasey;842326541 said:

Yeah well, people were a lot more racist for the better part of the last 81 years. It's called progress.


Like I wrote earlier, I'm kind of agnostic...not because I don't think "redskin" is a slur, it is, but because there seems to be a lot of selective thought on it. The National Congress of American Indians, the oldest and largest American Indian and Alaskan Native group in the U.S. since 1944 wrote a white paper in 2013 about how ALL native American Indian symbols are insensitive, racist and caricatures....along with all war chants, Indian dances and other Indian rituals used colleges and pros. These should be addressed as well if you think the NCAI has standing etc. This includes the Chiefs, Braves, Blackhawks etc as well as all college and high school teams...

Also, why are there images that absolutely bring up racist stereotypes still in use? Is it because they are now common place and not deemed racist anymore?. That would make sense to me if the redskin argument holds water......some of these are down right pejoratives, or have been in the past. The first two predate the "Redskins". Get rid of all of it, not just some if you want to be seen as fair to the cause. There certainly are groups of people who find these offensive or stereotypical...be proactive.

















Vandalus
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93gobears;842326564 said:

Thanks for stealing my jokes, Dane Cook.


Haha. I loved that bit in the show. It's amazing that he got Dane Cook to agree to do that scene.
93gobears
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Don't forget Betty Crocker.
sycasey
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93gobears;842326557 said:

You said people were more racist 81 years ago.


That is correct.
93gobears
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grandmastapoop;842326552 said:

An intelligent and substantive contributions as usual, 93gobears.

/sarcasm


Go White Guys.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326569 said:

That is correct.


Correct in that you wrote it?

Or correct in that it is true?
sycasey
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93gobears;842326572 said:

Correct in that you wrote it?

Or correct in that it is true?


Both.
OldBlue1999
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sycasey;842326493 said:

This is the result of a suit brought by a private party, the ruling in which merely creates additional incentive for them to change the name.


I'm not even sure it creates much additional incentive to stop using the name. Certainly this may tend to signal that social and political attitudes have shifted, and those can have an impact on a company's bottom line (not to mention jury verdicts), but from a purely trademark perspective I think the impact is probably minimal or at least highly variable by region. IMO, the main benefits to federal registration are constructive nationwide use and incontestibily, but those are of little use to the team at this point.

Constructive use is beneficial mainly to young or regional businesses so they can minimize the risk of priority disputes with other smaller businesses from different regions down the road as they expand. Regardless which side of the race debate you fall on, REDSKINS is recognized across the US as the name of the football team from Washington DC, probably universally our very close to it. At the very least, there is no credible competition from another football team using that name in the US, particularly at the for profit level. (High schools regularly appropriate pro and college trademarks, wholesale and as derivatives, and nobody really makes a big deal out of it or challenges the implied assertion that it's fair use, because it almost certainly is.) So IMO they don't really need constructive nationwide use anymore because they've got actual nationwide (and probably worldwide) use, which always trumps anyways.

Incontestibility is the real long term benefit, but as they just learned it is a misnomer. All incontestibility does is eliminate some of the bases for cancellation, not all of them. For example, it does not eliminate cancellations based on allegations that the mark was not properly registrable at the time it was registered, such as immoral or scandalous matter. So whatever incontestibility they (or any other mark for that matter) ever had or thought they had was always illusory, at least to a certain degree.

But infringement lawsuits are never heard by the TTAB, and are always case by case unless, I suppose, somehow a group of alleged infringers qualified for class status. At its core trademark law is rooted in state laws, typically those governing unfair competition. Trademarks also can typically be registered at the state level (not sure about all states, but in CA you definitely can). So infringement lawsuits can be and often are filed and heard in state courts. Of course, they also can be and often are filed and heard in federal district courts, but those cases are based on diversity, not subject matter jx. (The PTO registers trademarks under Commerce Clause authority, a prerequisite is interstate commerce.)

So from an infringement defense standpoint, which let's face it is by far the #1 reason people own trademarks, it's very unclear if anything has materially changed. You'd really need to know the law and attitudes of at least all 50 states, which I don't.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326574 said:

Both.


Really?
CalZebra2012
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68great;842326517 said:

You mean like the government refusing to recognize treaties with numerous Indian tribes or refusing to enforce Supreme Court decrees regarding their rights. Or do you mean only protections for the "white men's rights".:p
Kimosabe.:p


"Kimosabe" and "Tonto" are offensive because they stereotype Native Americans as subservient to whites and as people not able to speak in complete sentences. It perpetuates the stoic warrior image.
OldBlue1999
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Trademark law doesn't dictate what terms and imagery companies can our can't use in a general sense. It dictates what one company can prevent another company from using. If a company loses that ability, it just means anyone can use the term or image.
93gobears
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OldBlue1999;842326588 said:

Trademark law doesn't dictate what terms and imagery companies can our can't use in a general sense. It dictates what one company can prevent another company from using.


Exactly. Now no Chinese are going to jail in America for exporting counterfeit Redskin hoodies.

It's so nice we live in a country were you can say that.
sycasey
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93gobears;842326583 said:

Really?


I think I already answered this question.
sycasey
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OldBlue1999;842326580 said:

So from an infringement defense standpoint, which let's face it is by far the #1 reason people own trademarks, it's very unclear if anything has materially changed. You'd really need to know the law and attitudes of at least all 50 states, which I don't.


From what I can tell, no one is really sure of the impact here, since something like this has never happened before (a major, popular sports team losing a trademark to its name). The Uni Watch blog has a decent breakdown for laypeople:

http://www.uni-watch.com/2014/06/19/a-closer-look-at-yesterdays-skins-ruling/
93gobears
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sycasey;842326599 said:

I think I already answered this question.


Whether or not your statement is truthful or not is open to debate.

Right?

Or do you own this topic?
OldBlue1999
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93gobears;842326591 said:

Exactly. Now no Chinese are going to jail in America for exporting counterfeit Redskin hoodies.


Actually, there are criminal penalties for trademark infringement under certain circumstances and Homeland Security and ICE do enforce counterfeiting to a certain extent for federal registrations that are recorded with Customs. I've been focused on domestic game related activities, but actually that's potentially a big deal for the team with respect to merchandising that they will probably keep fighting over.

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/notices/tmrecorduscustoms.jsp
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1312/131202washingtondc.htm
93gobears
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sycasey;842326600 said:

From what I can tell, no one is really sure of the impact here, since something like this has never happened before (a major, popular sports team losing a trademark to its name). The Uni Watch blog has a decent breakdown for laypeople:

http://www.uni-watch.com/2014/06/19/a-closer-look-at-yesterdays-skins-ruling/


Yeah, it's happened before.

With these same parties.

Last time it was overturned on appeal by a real court.

This is nothing but political kabuki.
93gobears
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OldBlue1999;842326603 said:

Actually, there are criminal penalties for trademark infringement under certain circumstances and Homeland Security and ICE do enforce counterfeiting to a certain extent for federal registrations that are recorded with Customs. I've been focused on domestic game related activities, but actually that's potentially a big deal for the team with respect to merchandising that they will probably keep fighting over.

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/notices/tmrecorduscustoms.jsp
http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1312/131202washingtondc.htm


Actually the point I was trying to make was that this ruling only affects the criminal prosecution of trademark infringement, not the civil side of affairs.
OldBlue1999
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93gobears;842326606 said:

Actually the point I was trying to make was that this ruling only affects the criminal prosecution of trademark infringement, not the civil side of affairs.


Ok, gotcha. Good point.
sycasey
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93gobears;842326602 said:

Whether or not your statement is truthful or not is open to debate.



Of course it is, but you aren't debating it. You're just asking "Really?" over and over again. If you have an argument to make, make it.
sycasey
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93gobears;842326604 said:

Yeah, it's happened before.

With these same parties.

Last time it was overturned on appeal by a real court.

This is nothing but political kabuki.


It was overturned due to lack of legal standing, not on the merits. The current plaintiffs are supposed to now have standing, so we will see.
93gobears
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sycasey;842326610 said:

It was overturned due to lack of legal standing, not on the merits. The current plaintiffs are supposed to now have standing, so we will see.


Here. When you throw around a statement like:

Quote:

Yeah well, people were a lot more racist for the better part of the last 81 years. It's called progress.


...please don't include me, my siblings, my friends, my parents, or my grandparents.

The equal treatment of "all god's children" is not a concept invented in 2008, 1964, or even 1865.
 
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