BeggarEd;842329039 said:

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Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit
Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit Pantsuit

Am I doing it right now professor pompous?

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I'd say that you are behaving like a jerk. Yes.

A post-plastic surgery DrunkOski is celebrating the news.

it wasn't perfect but Sandy did a lot of good things. I'm personally grateful for her service and effort.

OneKeg;842329066 said:

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I hear you but I think you're referring to the "I am vindicated" thread. That thread is not this thread.

As for Sandy, I agree that with her handling of football and academics, it was time for a change. But it's all about selecting her replacement. Given our current precarious position, this is going to be one of the most important Cal Athletics hires in a long time. I am guardedly optimistic that Dirks and Wilton are the right people to handle it.

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We actually got lucky with who we had at AD when Tedford was hired. We had a tough as nails head coach as AD who wasn't really a good AD. As I've said before, he called his shot. He knew what it took to coach and he said he'd know those qualities when he interviewed the right person. In fact, he saw those qualities in two guys who would go on to become two good head football coaches: Marvin Lewis, who turned us down, and Jeff Tedford who turned us around, for awhile. I fear that when it comes time to replace Dykes we will have another PC AD who places too much emphasis on how someone does in an interview instead of all the tough, gritty qualities it takes to be a head football coach. We almost need a separate AD for football and one for every other sport. Maybe we'll get lucky.

82gradDLSdad;842329321 said:

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We actually got lucky with who we had at AD when Tedford was hired. We had a tough as nails head coach as AD who wasn't really a good AD. As I've said before, he called his shot. He knew what it took to coach and he said he'd know those qualities when he interviewed the right person. In fact, he saw those qualities in two guys who would go on to become two good head football coaches: Marvin Lewis, who turned us down, and Jeff Tedford who turned us around, for awhile. I fear that when it comes time to replace Dykes we will have another PC AD who places too much emphasis on how someone does in an interview instead of all the tough, gritty qualities it takes to be a head football coach. We almost need a separate AD for football and one for every other sport. Maybe we'll get lucky.

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(1) If you subscribe to the notion that Dirks and Wilton hired Cuonzo Martin and
(2) if you believe that hiring Martin exceeded expectations (by whatever degree) for finding a MBB head coach, and
(3) if you believe that Dirks and Wilton nudged Barbour out the door, then
(4) doesn't it make sense that Dirks and Wilton will not sign off on "another PC AD"?

The notion that Cal's current administration is incapable of recognizing excellence in Athletic Director candidates while understanding the challenges ahead seems to run counter to recent evidence. Dontcha think?

FiatSlug;842329375 said:

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(1) If you subscribe to the notion that Dirks and Wilton hired Cuonzo Martin and
(2) if you believe that hiring Martin exceeded expectations (by whatever degree) for finding a MBB head coach, and
(3) if you believe that Dirks and Wilton nudged Barbour out the door, then
(4) doesn't it make sense that Dirks and Wilton will not sign off on "another PC AD"?

The notion that Cal's current administration is incapable of recognizing excellence in Athletic Director candidates while understanding the challenges ahead seems to run counter to recent evidence. Dontcha think?

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I don't know how good a coach Martin is and Dirks looks very PC to me. He didn't even 'fire' Sandy. He reassigned her. That seems PC to me. You can cut the holier than thou style too.

82gradDLSdad;842329380 said:

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I don't know how good a coach Martin is and Dirks looks very PC to me. He didn't even 'fire' Sandy. He reassigned her. That seems PC to me. You can cut the holier than thou style too.

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Actually, Cal has had two "terminations" of ultra-high income empolyees (that I know of) since Dirks got settled - Buh and Sandy. In the past Cal would have paid the buyouts. In both cases, Cal did not pay the buyout but assigned them to positions WAAAAAY beneath their current status and essentially dared them to leave without the buyout. That is a pretty non-PC, hardass corporate hardball tactic (one I don't particularly like, by the way). Buh will probably stick around because he can't get close to those dollars elsewhere, but I don't see Sandy sticking to set up a lame UC extension program unless she was ready to make a life choice to cut back anyway.

We are just getting to know Dirks, but from what I've seen, he seems pretty hardcore. Of course when it comes to hiring coaches and AD's, he could be hardcore but wrong.

82gradDLSdad;842329380 said:

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I don't know how good a coach Martin is and Dirks looks very PC to me. He didn't even 'fire' Sandy. He reassigned her. That seems PC to me. You can cut the holier than thou style too.

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Well, her money is guaranteed for one more year so why not use her for something else? Seems like the smart thing to do. Same with Buh. If they leave early, they don't get their money, if they stay, they do grunt work someone else would do anyway, at an additional cost.

Beyond sports, Dirks has recently hired a very famous furdie as provost, and created a new VC position to clean up Cal's disastrous real estate portfolio which is sorely utilized. For free. He has done an incredible amount of work in his short time here.

OaktownBear;842329381 said:

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Actually, Cal has had two "terminations" of ultra-high income empolyees (that I know of) since Dirks got settled - Buh and Sandy. In the past Cal would have paid the buyouts. In both cases, Cal did not pay the buyout but assigned them to positions WAAAAAY beneath their current status and essentially dared them to leave without the buyout. That is a pretty non-PC, hardass corporate hardball tactic (one I don't particularly like, by the way). Buh will probably stick around because he can't get close to those dollars elsewhere, but I don't see Sandy sticking to set up a lame UC extension program unless she was ready to make a life choice to cut back anyway.

We are just getting to know Dirks, but from what I've seen, he seems pretty hardcore. Of course when it comes to hiring coaches and AD's, he could be hardcore but wrong.

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This is how I see it. Dirks made his rep at Columbia by being known as an organizational and fund raising wizard. He is hardcore. That is why he was hired.

I hope Dirks hits a home run with a football coach. It's a hard enough position to fill when you are just trying to identify a great football coach. It's impossible when you have other agendas you are trying to meet beyond how good a coach the guy is. We'll see because I can't see Dykes surviving. I have no problem being wrong and I wish Dirks and Dykes all the luck in the world. Lord knows Dykes deserves some good luck this year after last. BTW, I appreciate the explanations of Dirks' moves so far. Maybe I'm wrong on the PC categorization. There are reasons though why you fire people and not reassign them even if they are owed big money. The attitudes of the reassigned can't be 100% and can't be good for the others around them. And typically people at this level are pretty good at 'sounding' positive when they are not. I'm not a fan of demoting people in high positions. Either keep them or fire them. They have the potential to influence (infect?) too many people.

82gradDLSdad;842329380 said:

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I don't know how good a coach Martin is and Dirks looks very PC to me.

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No one really knows how good Martin will be at Cal. His track record at Missouri State and Tennessee suggests that he will be a very good MBB head coach at Cal. His three years at Tennessee produced an SEC conference record of 32-20 (.615), overall record of 63-41 (.606)

Why does Dirks look PC to you? I wonder if any chancellor at Cal would, by definition, look PC to you. Or did you view either Tien, Berdahl, or Birgineau as anything other than PC?

82gradDLSdad;842329380 said:

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He didn't even 'fire' Sandy. He reassigned her. That seems PC to me.

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I view Barbour's re-assignment as a firing. Barbour will not be Athletic Director after July 15 and she has one year remaining on her contract that will presumably not be renewed or extended.

I infer that you don't want to view it as a firing because it doesn't fit your narrative of Dirks being PC.

82gradDLSdad;842329380 said:

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You can cut the holier than thou style too.

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I can't possibly hope not to offend you, I guess. The style of my post was simply meant to present salient facts and a hypothetical. If that's holier-than-thou, then I'm guilty as sin.

FiatSlug;842329410 said:

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Why does Dirks look PC to you? I wonder if any chancellor at Cal would, by definition, look PC to you. Or did you view either Tien, Berdahl, or Birgineau as anything other than PC?

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Moreover, what does the description "PC" even mean in this case? I feel like it's being used to just mean "bad" and not what the term "politically correct" actually means, which is that people should avoid use of racially or sexually offensive terms and phrases. And I don't even see why that would be a bad thing in a Chancellor or other high-ranking University official. You want a guy who is willing to say racist and sexist things?

"PC" is about language use. It has nothing to do with how good an official will be at hiring competent people to important positions.

OaktownBear;842329381 said:

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Actually, Cal has had two "terminations" of ultra-high income empolyees (that I know of) since Dirks got settled - Buh and Sandy. In the past Cal would have paid the buyouts. In both cases, Cal did not pay the buyout but assigned them to positions WAAAAAY beneath their current status and essentially dared them to leave without the buyout. That is a pretty non-PC, hardass corporate hardball tactic (one I don't particularly like, by the way). Buh will probably stick around because he can't get close to those dollars elsewhere, but I don't see Sandy sticking to set up a lame UC extension program unless she was ready to make a life choice to cut back anyway.

We are just getting to know Dirks, but from what I've seen, he seems pretty hardcore. Of course when it comes to hiring coaches and AD's, he could be hardcore but wrong.

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This is right on. I see similarities in the corporate world where there's not enough reason to let someone go but people want to get rid of underperformers so they can put on crap projects. They are then forced to leave on their own if they care about their career at all.

FiatSlug;842329410 said:

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No one really knows how good Martin will be at Cal. His track record at Missouri State and Tennessee suggests that he will be a very good MBB head coach at Cal. His three years at Tennessee produced an SEC conference record of 32-20 (.615), overall record of 63-41 (.606)

Why does Dirks look PC to you? I wonder if any chancellor at Cal would, by definition, look PC to you. Or did you view either Tien, Berdahl, or Birgineau as anything other than PC?



I view Barbour's re-assignment as a firing. Barbour will not be Athletic Director after July 15 and she has one year remaining on her contract that will presumably not be renewed or extended.

I infer that you don't want to view it as a firing because it doesn't fit your narrative of Dirks being PC.



I can't possibly hope not to offend you, I guess. The style of my post was simply meant to present salient facts and a hypothetical. If that's holier-than-thou, then I'm guilty as sin.

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I haven't paid much attention to the chancellors and so I can't comment on who of them looked PC or not PC. The only AD that didn't look PC to me was Gladstone. He said what he meant and meant what he said. He wouldn't say he reassigned someone when he actually fired them. If Sandy was fired I expect a non-PC person to say "I fired her." And yes, I suspect anyone to hold the chancellor position at a top college to be PC. In part it is how they got the job. I just hope that behind closed doors they are smart enough to know that their AD and football coach are (or should be) sports people first and political/corporate citizens second. If they are not we will be spinning our wheels. And the holier than thou remark has as much to do with your tone toward other posters as it does with your "dontcha think" wisecrack. You can have any persona you want on this board, obviously. But to me you come across as a know it all. Not the end of the world but I thought I'd let you know, for what it's worth.

82gradDLSdad;842329620 said:

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I haven't paid much attention to the chancellors and so I can't comment on who of them looked PC or not PC. The only AD that didn't look PC to me was Gladstone. He said what he meant and meant what he said. He wouldn't say he reassigned someone when he actually fired them. If Sandy was fired I expect a non-PC person to say "I fired her." And yes, I suspect anyone to hold the chancellor position at a top college to be PC. In part it is how they got the job. I just hope that behind closed doors they are smart enough to know that their AD and football coach are (or should be) sports people first and political/corporate citizens second. If they are not we will be spinning our wheels. And the holier than thou remark has as much to do with your tone toward other posters as it does with your "dontcha think" wisecrack. You can have any persona you want on this board, obviously. But to me you come across as a know it all. Not the end of the world but I thought I'd let you know, for what it's worth.

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First of all, I'm not going to take sides between you and Fiat. You guys can have at it.

However, on the PC aspect and expecting a non-PC person to say "I fired her". I think you are assuming that it is somehow for show or for the feeling of Sandy or her supporters. But plain and simple if he says he fired her, her lawyer will be on the phone in 10 seconds demanding, and getting, the buyout check. It is great when people speak the truth, but not when it costs them 7 figures. Going from AD to setting up a sports management class, not even within the regular class offering but within the UC extension is about as obvious a firing as you can get. In some ways, it is more humiliating then a straight "you're fired"

OaktownBear;842329700 said:

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First of all, I'm not going to take sides between you and Fiat. You guys can have at it.

However, on the PC aspect and expecting a non-PC person to say "I fired her". I think you are assuming that it is somehow for show or for the feeling of Sandy or her supporters. But plain and simple if he says he fired her, her lawyer will be on the phone in 10 seconds demanding, and getting, the buyout check. It is great when people speak the truth, but not when it costs them 7 figures. Going from AD to setting up a sports management class, not even within the regular class offering but within the UC extension is about as obvious a firing as you can get. In some ways, it is more humiliating then a straight "you're fired"

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Ok, I'll relent on the PC thing. I understand why, financially and professionally, Dirks made the statements he did. I just hope that when it comes to hiring people to resuscitate our football program he listens to folks like Jack Clark and Steve Gladstone who know what it takes to lead young men in a tough sport. Maybe the next AD will be someone who handles all the other sports and duties except for football. I would love to see Dirks think out of the box given that D1 football is no longer just another sport for the AD to manage in addition to the 20+ others we have. Maybe we need a GM of football who reports to the AD and who is a football guy/girl (well, probably guy) and who knows a good coach when he interviews one. I know that costs money but it doesn't cost as much as having a bad team.
Basically, I guess I use PC to mean those that say and do what is expected of them regardless of the outcomes. And then defend those outcomes by saying they are saying and doing what the job entails. That's not good enough.
BTW FiatSlug, you usually do a fine job presenting 'salient facts'. It was the timing of your 'dontcha think' along with some other poster referencing you in another post that caused me to 'complain'. I usually have no problem with your posts. You know more about this stuff than I do. I'm just spouting off most of the time.

82gradDLSdad;842329712 said:

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Ok, I'll relent on the PC thing. I understand why, financially and professionally, Dirks made the statements he did. I just hope that when it comes to hiring people to resuscitate our football program he listens to folks like Jack Clark and Steve Gladstone who know what it takes to lead young men in a tough sport. Maybe the next AD will be someone who handles all the other sports and duties except for football. I would love to see Dirks think out of the box given that D1 football is no longer just another sport for the AD to manage in addition to the 20+ others we have. Maybe we need a GM of football who reports to the AD and who is a football guy/girl (well, probably guy) and who knows a good coach when he interviews one. I know that costs money but it doesn't cost as much as having a bad team.
Basically, I guess I use PC to mean those that say and do what is expected of them regardless of the outcomes. And then defend those outcomes by saying they are saying and doing what the job entails. That's not good enough.
BTW FiatSlug, you usually do a fine job presenting 'salient facts'. It was the timing of your 'dontcha think' along with some other poster referencing you in another post that caused me to 'complain'. I usually have no problem with your posts. You know more about this stuff than I do. I'm just spouting off most of the time.

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What I would like to see is for us to take advantage of the many people who are connected to Cal that could bring expertise, knowledge and connections to a search. Guys like Herm Edwards, Ron Rivera, Mooch, Craig Morton, players like Aaron Rodgers or maybe Forsett who have been exposed to coaches in the NFL, certainly Jack Clark, maybe some other coaches on staff who are proven winners and understand the proper use of sports psychology in training athletes at a major college level. We have a lot of resources who are connected to recruiting, the NFL, other colleges, who know who the talented young coaches are and who have the connections to help the search. More than we've ever had before. The next search, whenever that comes, should bring all those resources to bear, not rely on some search firm. (which actually I think was the ultimate PC thing to do - Gladstone didn't use one.)

OaktownBear;842329752 said:

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What I would like to see is for us to take advantage of the many people who are connected to Cal that could bring expertise, knowledge and connections to a search. Guys like Herm Edwards, Ron Rivera, Mooch, Craig Morton, players like Aaron Rodgers or maybe Forsett who have been exposed to coaches in the NFL, certainly Jack Clark, maybe some other coaches on staff who are proven winners and understand the proper use of sports psychology in training athletes at a major college level. We have a lot of resources who are connected to recruiting, the NFL, other colleges, who know who the talented young coaches are and who have the connections to help the search. More than we've ever had before. The next search, whenever that comes, should bring all those resources to bear, not rely on some search firm. (which actually I think was the ultimate PC thing to do - Gladstone didn't use one.)

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Amen to this.

Hey, I've been called pompous (and worse) many times before now. And I know that the way something sounds in my head as I read or type it won't necessarily sound the same way in someone else's head as they typed or read the same thing.

I also tend to compartmentalize things when others don't and vice versa. I'm a human syncopator. As my wife has sometimes observed, I tend to put the em-PHAS-is on the wrong syl-LAB-le.

socaliganbear;842329382 said:

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Well, her money is guaranteed for one more year so why not use her for something else? Seems like the smart thing to do. Same with Buh. If they leave early, they don't get their money, if they stay, they do grunt work someone else would do anyway, at an additional cost.

Beyond sports, Dirks has recently hired a very famous furdie as provost, and created a new VC position to clean up Cal's disastrous real estate portfolio which is sorely utilized. For free. He has done an incredible amount of work in his short time here.

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Bingo!
+1

This PC talk is a bunch of bull. This is about professional courtesy, respect and being human.

Look SB overall did a good job while at Cal, not perfect but overall she gave it her best, got good results. In a situation like this, a dedicated employee is forced to step-down...so why hammer her, why not just draw and quarter her like so many wanted to do to Tedford? Yeah baby, lets draw blood!!!

Seriously, say what you want about SB but she was the first truly professional AD Cal has had, and that brought results like facilities. So after someone gives you ten years, handles massive Berkeley crap (hello tree sitters) with a deft hand and moves everything forward, you just don't kick them to the curb and stomp them. Nope you make nice, find a weird but reasonable exit plan to save face and you thank that person for their service.

beelzebear;842329796 said:

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This PC talk is a bunch of bull. This is about professional courtesy, respect and being human.

Look SB overall did a good job while at Cal, not perfect but overall she gave it her best, got good results. In a situation like this, a dedicated employee is forced to step-down...so why hammer her, why not just draw and quarter her like so many wanted to do to Tedford? Yeah baby, lets draw blood!!!

Seriously, say what you want about SB but she was the first truly professional AD Cal has had, and that brought results like facilities. So after someone gives you ten years, handles massive Berkeley crap (hello tree sitters) with a deft hand and moves everything forward, you just don't kick them to the curb and stomp them. Nope you make nice, find a weird but reasonable exit plan to save face and you thank that person for their service.

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As I said elsewhere, Sandy gave it her all and appeared to love Cal. In the end, I didn't agree with a lot of her vision, but I don't enjoy her firing on a personal level, though I believe it needed to happen and I'm excited by the opportunity Cal now has.

I agree with you that she really was the most professional AD we'd ever had. That to me is part of the problem at Cal with sports. We always seem to be behind the curve. Cal hires a succession of AD's on a model that was probably acceptable in 1950. So with Sandy they bump up to a 1985/1990 era model and of course it is a huge improvement. She ran a department that was much more professional than previous but was not up to par with current standards. I'd say marketing was a good example. In the past they pretty much didn't try or they tried in a putting a sign out saying "Lemonade 5 cents a cup" kinda way. Under Sandy, they tried hard but were frankly amateur time - not understanding their customers, trying to imitate others they think are cool and creating bad imitations that didn't fit at Cal, and doing things that seemed awesome to them but didn't have any real payoff for Cal. (The uniform/font unveiling was probably the last straw for me).

Cal needs to get ahead of the curve with this hire.

OaktownBear;842329805 said:

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I agree with you that she really was the most professional AD we'd ever had. That to me is part of the problem at Cal with sports. We always seem to be behind the curve. Cal hires a succession of AD's on a model that was probably acceptable in 1950. So with Sandy they bump up to a 1985/1990 era model and of course it is a huge improvement. She ran a department that was much more professional than previous but was not up to par with current standards. I'd say marketing was a good example. In the past they pretty much didn't try or they tried in a putting a sign out saying "Lemonade 5 cents a cup" kinda way. Under Sandy, they tried hard but were frankly amateur time - not understanding their customers, trying to imitate others they think are cool and creating bad imitations that didn't fit at Cal, and doing things that seemed awesome to them but didn't have any real payoff for Cal. (The uniform/font unveiling was probably the last straw for me).

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Looking back on it, I have to agree. Sandy is still probably one of the best ADs Cal has had, but in part that's because her predecessors set such low bars. The hope (as with Tedford) was that she could grow as the program needed to grow, but it looks like that's not happening . . . time for new blood.