OaktownBear;842329373 said:
First of all, your list is riddled with inaccuracy. For instance, I don't know how Asomugha managed to be second in the Pac-10 in interceptions in 2003 while he was playing for the Raiders, but he had 1 inteception in 2000, 3 in 2001, and 3 in 2002.
Another example - Terrell Williams never did anything under Tedford. He barely played. As for running backs, Tedford would have been ecstatic to have Lasco and Muhammed in 2002. They have much higher potential than the runningbacks Tedford inherited - what the coach does with them is another issue.
By the end you seem to just be listing Holmoe guys that started under Tedford. Well, I can do that with Tedford guys that started last year. It is pointless. Somebody has to start. I think it is extremely funny that you list OL's who were crashingly bad as a unit until Tedford got here.
You also (as is your common practice) misrepresent what I said. I didn't say they were a dung heap. They weren't. I was actually one of the few at the time who said that Tedford had enough talent to show some improvement and I expected him to do so. I said that people BELIEVED at the time they were. That is flat out true. People wanted Boller benched. People said they didn't care if players left because they all sucked. People laughed when we got the bowl ban because of its supposed irrelevance. Not just a couple people. Most people. I argued, as I am now, that they were being unfair to the players because coaching made them look bad. I was right then. I believe I'm right today.
How do you know, for instance, that we don't have a Wendell Hunter on the roster among guys like Nickerson and Jefferson? We didn't know that Wendell Hunter was going to step up when Tedford was hired. You are assuming it because you haven't seen it.
Your whole post misses the point entirely. My point is that those were good players who demonstrated they were good players once the lousy coach left and Tedford came in. So your stating how awesome they all became after Tedford coached them really does nothing but bolster my point. My point is that we have many good players on the roster today who would demonstrate it if they had a good coach. The reason people think they suck is that their performance sucked. The reason their performance sucked is, like under Holmoe, they had a lousy coach.
We got blown out by Colorado - one of the worst teams in major college football. We barely beat Portland State. If nothing else, those results - coupled with no positive results to counter them - should demonstrate to anyone that we were performing way below our talent level even if you think our talent sucks. No way our talent was that bad.
Here is what you wrote in post #72: "Everyone believed Tedford was inheriting a dung heap, and if he coached them like Sonny they would still believe that to this day. Lousy coaching makes players look lousy."
Taken literally, "everyone" means every person, including you and me and all who follow Cal football. Now you are excluding yourself from that group, and saying you are one who did not believe it was a dung heap that Tedford inherited. If you had been forthcoming and written that in your original post, I would have agreed with you and there would have been no need for me to waste all the time I did responding to your post.
Your words, "dung heap", referred to Cal players of 2002, when Tedford inherited them from Tom Holmoe, and the words "them" and "they" clearly refer to Holmoe players who were later coached by Tedford. I didn't misrepresent anything you wrote, and I resent the implication that I do this to you as a matter of "common practice".
As to Nnamdi Asomugha, he played for Tom Holmoe in 1999, 2000, and 2001. I made a typo on the year 2003. It should have been 2001. I apologize for the mistake, but I can't see how that changes the fact that Nnamdi was a darn good player before Tedford inherited him for his senior year.
As to Terrell Williams, he was on the PAC10 All-Freshman team, and won the team's award as Most Valuable Freshman, all due to the excellent job he did running the football when Joe Igber got hurt and could not play in 2001. When Tedford inherited Williams, he was an established player with an outstanding freshman season under his belt. Muhammad is a talent, but as freshmen, Williams outgained him 688 yards to 445, behind what you called "a crashingly bad offensive line". Behind that bad line, Williams rushed for 105 yards per game in his last five games of 2001. The running backs Tedford inherited were much better. Igber, Williams, and Echemandu (who I forgot to include) were all very good running backs. Dykes inherited only the injured Lasco and often injured Bigelow, plus the freshman Muhammad. Under Tedford, Williams played behind Igber (who had returned from injury) in 2002, and he blew out the ligaments in his knee, missing 3 games and then missing all of the 2003 season. He was never able to regain the form he had as a freshman. In 2011, Lasco redshirted, and in 2012 Lasco had 6 carries. How can you possibly judge Lasco as superior to Williams as a proven player at the point when they were inherited by the incoming coach? Hopefully Lasco has put his injuries behind him and can reach the potential we think he has.
I made a list of good Cal players I could remember who played for Holmoe and Tedford. When I make a list of players, I try and include all I can remember, even if I end up including players who don't support my case. I don't intentionally cherry pick, as you did by using the one typo I made regarding Asomugha's playing years to accuse me of presenting a list of players "riddled with inaccuracies". One typo leads to a huge exaggeration. Actually, my list of players who played for Holmoe and were inherited by Tedford was incomplete. Here are some more Holmoe players who played in the NFL:
Mark Wilson
Adimchinobe Echemandu
Mawuko Tugmenyoh
Chase Lyman
L.P. Ladouceur
My list of Holmoe players who made it to the NFL without ever playing for Jeff Tedford was also incomplete. Here are the rest:
Jeremy Newberry
Marquis Smith
Matt Beck
Dameane Douglas
Derrick Gardner
Chidi Iwouma
Keith Miller
Jeremiah Parker
John Romero
Katu Serwanga
Bobby Shaw
Tarik Smith
John Welbourn
Josh White
Brandon Whiting
In his five years at Cal, Tom Holmoe sent a total of 23 players to the NFL, before Jeff Tedford ever arrived in Berkeley. Tedford inherited an additional 14 future NFL players from Tom Holmoe, whom Tedford eventually sent to the NFL. Tedford in his first five years sent 14 players, whom he had recruited himself, to the NFL. So Tedford sent a total of 27 players to the NFL in his first five years, 14 of whom had been recruited and/or coached by Holmoe.
Your point about Wendell Hunter is well taken. Sometimes one can see great potential in a freshman and sometimes not. Most observers could see that freshman Lorenzo Alexander had NFL in his future, and I think he would have made it to the NFL regardless of which coach tutored him. Sometimes it takes a 4th year under a new coach like with Boller. But Tedford did inherit a number of players who had individual accomplishments recognized by the PAC10 and the media, even if the 2001 team was a bad team. He did have a decent nucleus of veterans to work with. Dykes did not.
ykes