Daily Cal's James Grisom story

28,985 Views | 215 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by BeggarEd
freshfunk
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NYCGOBEARS;842353299 said:

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Go on with your circular arguments. I'm going to focus in Sac State.


Well, you tell me:

"You skewer Sonny for not winning and now you're criticizing him for doing what if takes?"

You're saying it takes removing schollies to win. I think removing schollies from kids, in good standing, is ethically wrong. Ergo, you're implying that I'm OK with doing ethically wrong things to win. So I asked you if you were OK with it.

Once you accept that I actually find this morally reprehensible and not just think I'm trying to make an uproar because it's Sonny, then you'll understand. I also think our AD is a continued cluster.
btsktr
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freshfunk;842353289 said:

No, the gift was not guaranteed. But if it's nearly always the case that schollies are not revoked unless a student is no longer in good standing, then I think it's completely valid to be angry when it does happen. Again, legally it's OK but morally reprehensible. The associate AD is quoted as saying:



That's pretty cut and dry to me. There is no distinction made between schollies award to walk-ons or recruited athletes, which some seem to think create a distinction here. In fact the article seems to do the opposite:



Now if people can show me that this is common practice in respectable programs, I'll gladly sheath my anger. But Stiver is quoted as saying that they "make the coach live with it" and it's why Cal doesn't award four-year scholarships" which implies that this doesn't typically happen.


Let's say Cal used 83 scholarships last year. Would have rather had the staff keep the number of scholarships players at 83 when they know they are going to use them for upcoming recruiting class?

If you are so worried about walk-ons getting scholarships revoked (which they are not because they are for 1 year), would you rather have them never give out the extra scholarships they have? They could have never given Lapite and Grissom a shollie and kept the number at 83. But they tried to do the nice thing and award the extra schollies they had for 2013 to deserving walk ons.

I know that as a supporter of Cal, I want them to award any extra scholarships they have to walk ons. But I also want them use those a scholarships for recruiting the next year.

They did not have to award the scholarships to the walk ons, but because they had no other use for them in 2013, they figured they should give them out. But they have every right to use those scholarships the next year for recruiting.
txwharfrat
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The only way this reflects poorly on Dykes and Likens is the communications issue. It is pretty normal for a lot of walk-on scholarships to be one year - or even one semester. Strange that he thought this was permanent.

The other weird part ... didn't he notice that he was being overpaid? Where did the money go?
beeasyed
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freshfunk;842353311 said:

Well, you tell me:

"You skewer Sonny for not winning and now you're criticizing him for doing what if takes?"

You're saying it takes removing schollies to win. I think removing schollies from kids, in good standing, is ethically wrong. Ergo, you're implying that I'm OK with doing ethically wrong things to win. So I asked you if you were OK with it.

Once you accept that I actually find this morally reprehensible and not just think I'm trying to make an uproar because it's Sonny, then you'll understand. I also think our AD is a continued cluster.


Repeat after me:

"I realize I choose to follow a sport that is run and managed by a corrupt and for-profit organization called the NCAA. Its rules and bylaws not only allow for coaches to engage--and even encourage--in such practices, without consideration for the welfare of the student-athletes.
.
.
.
I also understand that it is common practice for all schools, far and wide, to not renew scholarships, or to free up a scholarship, by using various ploys and cleverly worded press releases suggesting a player has 'moved on' or 'chosen to focus on academics'.
"

Whew.
Eeyore
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NYCGOBEARS;842353258 said:

I'm sure that each position group has an allotment of schollies. As we know, wr is a position of depth for us. I'm not surprised or outraged by it.


Look, I get this practice of pulling scholarship is pretty common in other schools, but we are not an SEC school. We on BI are fanatic about football, but what separates us from fans of "football powerhouses" is that we value true student-athletes like Grisom. If you think otherwise, we should drop the #1 public university slogan and just recruit mercenaries. Most importantly, I'd like to think that Cal alums expect their school's staff to at least have the decency of treating others like human beings and tell them bad news in person (not via some admin email).
txwharfrat
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The difference is that James was a walk-on. Most of the time, those scholarships are awarded on a temporary basis. You can't compare it to Goff or Rubenzer. That is silly.
freshfunk
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beeasyed;842353304 said:

1. Hold your horses, we've only just won 1 game.

2. Dykes is trimming the roster. This is fair game.

3. Even people who don't support Dykes think this is above board, from a football perspective. Well maybe not the finding out by email part.

4. You reference Kev's message:

"Regardless, it's senseless that the program can unilaterally end the relationship without penalty but the player can't. If the team can terminate the scholarship on a yearly basis, there's no reason that the player shouldn't be able to walk away from the team at the end of any year without sitting out a year. That's just bull****."

So you're against this entire college system. Well, go reform it then.

5. All colleges do this in various guises to various extents. Difference is we rarely do it, and we almost never do it to full-ride athletes. Unless they're bad apples. But even then, we just "recommend" them to go pro. Or leave on their own.


Yes, and after that 1 game many are willing to crown him king. Plus you have the usual suspects of Dykes defender-at-all costs (minus Eeyore, which is shocking).

Blaming the whole college system is to sidetrack this specific issue at one specific school. School's choose how they handle this situation. Some schools give 4 year schollies, some give 1. According to our associate AD (and head of compliance), all student athletes get 1 and are not revoked unless there's an issue with the student and coaches are left continue giving it to them even if the athletes don't turn out how the coaches thought they would. This is how Cal chooses (or used to choose) to do it because we can be better than other schools and we can fulfill our promise to the students and be more than just an organization for sports business.

Blaming me for not reforming the entire college system is like blaming me for not curing hunger when I choose to donate to the local foot shelter. I care about Cal not about the vagaries of other programs out there, many who are willing to do anything to win.
txwharfrat
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We very rarely even hear about walkons getting scholarships. Dykes was the one that started announcing them. Tedford never announced them. You had to kind of "guess" who might have temporarily been awarded one.

Many times ... the walk-ons get one when they are seniors, so your point is kind of irrelevant. Right now, the only publicly confirmed non-senior WO to have a scholarship this fall is Stephen Anderson. Will he be on scholly next fall too? Who knows.
jamonit
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btsktr;842353312 said:

Let's say Cal used 83 scholarships last year. Would have rather had the staff keep the number of scholarships players at 83 when they know they are going to use them for upcoming recruiting class?

If you are so worried about walk-ons getting scholarships revoked (which they are not because they are for 1 year), would you rather have them never give out the extra scholarships they have? They could have never given Lapite and Grissom a shollie and kept the number at 83. But they tried to do the nice thing and award the extra schollies they had for 2013 to deserving walk ons.

I know that as a supporter of Cal, I want them to award any extra scholarships they have to walk ons. But I also want them use those a scholarships for recruiting the next year.

They did not have to award the scholarships to the walk ons, but because they had no other use for them in 2013, they figured they should give them out. But they have every right to use those scholarships the next year for recruiting.


This is exactly right... Some people can't seem to grasp that they are receiving a scholarship because we were below the 85 number and have the ability to give a free year of education to a hard working walkon. In doing so though it is not the same as a recruited athlete in that they will be able to use that scholarship for recruiting the next year. You usually never hear about it because most coaches over sign and don't give out a ton of walkon scholarships and when they do SRs are the most likely to get them as a reward. We just happen to not have a lot of SRs last year or this year so some JRs got them. That is a good thing and Grisom earned that scholarship last year with his hard work.

Now the screw up with the double payment is what sucks. As for him not knowing or being told... I don't know about that. I think things are usually pretty clear and who knows if he wasn't paying attention or just assuming he would be automatically given another year. We don't know the whole story and as I said it sounds like Grisom doesn't know the whole story from his end. Why would he have to give back 11K if he was only over paid 4K and gave it back? Not sure what happened, but I think we all agree it sucks and if we can help out we should all try.
freshfunk
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Eeyore;842353318 said:

Look, I get this practice of pulling scholarship is pretty common in other schools, but we are not an SEC school. We on BI are fanatic about football, but what separates us from fans of "football powerhouses" is that we value true student-athletes like Grisom. If you think otherwise, we should drop the #1 public university slogan and just recruit mercenaries. Most importantly, I'd like to think that Cal alums expect their school's staff to at least have the decency of treating others like human beings and tell them bad news in person (not via some admin email).


:bravo

We should be much better than this! We should fulfill our promises to our student athletes and the chief promise is an education.
boredom
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beeasyed;842353291 said:


ALL THE TIME. and it's happened here too before. whatever Stiver said is just to cover Cal's ass from a PR point of view. other schools have nicer-sounding excuses that never get exposed in their schools' papers.

"medical retirement"
"focusing on academics"
"expanding his interests outside of football"

....etc.


the medical retirement stuff is done as a way of roster management but there's a BIG difference. Those players are still on scholarship, they're just no longer allowed to play football and don't count against the scholly limit. While somewhat shady, this practice doesn't screw over the kid. Pulling the scholarship does.

If nothing else, the coaching staff sounds like they screwed up in communicating that it was a 1 year deal. The arguments in this thread over the language in the scholarship agreement and whether it's "pulling" or "not renewing" are silly. Dykes has the legal right to pull / not renew. I think he has a moral obligation to make it clear to each player that's offered a scholarship how long its for and what it takes to keep it or have it no longer be there the following year.
txwharfrat
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Where do you get off using the terminology "pulliing scholarships"? Awarding a walk-on a temporary one year scholarship and then not renewing it is now "pulling" a scholarship. It is living up to your contractual obligation, but not extending beyond that.

What is your deal?
freshfunk
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beeasyed;842353316 said:

Repeat after me:

"I realize I choose to follow a sport that is run and managed by a corrupt and for-profit organization called the NCAA. Its rules and bylaws not only allow for coaches to engage--and even encourage--in such practices, without consideration for the welfare of the student-athletes.
.
.
.
I also understand that it is common practice for all schools, far and wide, to not renew scholarships, or to free up a scholarship, by using various ploys and cleverly worded press releases suggesting a player has 'moved on' or 'chosen to focus on academics'.
"

Whew.


Yes, but we choose how Cal is run.

And, look, if you're OK with doing anything to win then why do we bother touting our academics? Why bother talking about the academic quality or even the decency of the kids that come to the program? Why bother worrying about APR? Let's lower our standards as low as possible so we can maximize our wins.

How can we ever compete against a program like Furd that is graduating 100% of their kids? It's possible that other program start using this against us (ie, "Cal revokes schollies arbitrarily.").
jamonit
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txwharfrat;842353320 said:

The difference is that James was a walk-on. Most of the time, those scholarships are awarded on a temporary basis. You can't compare it to Goff or Rubenzer. That is silly.


I give up... Either they don't want to give up their argument and admit they just don't either understand or didn't know... OR they are just using this to slam Sonny Dykes again... Either way it is boring and I am not going to continue to waste time trying to get them to understand that a walkon isn't the same thing as a recruited athlete and that their is no revoking involved. This is the same stupid thing that freshfunk loves to do. Take hardly any facts about something he knows very little about and them complain over and over. Good luck getting them to see the light or admit they just didn't know.
NYCGOBEARS
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txwharfrat;842353329 said:

Where do you get off using the terminology "pulliing scholarships"? Awarding a walk-on a temporary one year scholarship and then not renewing it is now "pulling" a scholarship. It is living up to your contractual obligation, but not extending beyond that.

What is your deal?


You are talking to a brick wall tex.
beeasyed
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freshfunk;842353323 said:

Yes, and after that 1 game many are willing to crown him king. Plus you have the usual suspects of Dykes defender-at-all costs (minus Eeyore, which is shocking).

Blaming the whole college system is to sidetrack this specific issue at one specific school. School's choose how they handle this situation. Some schools give 4 year schollies, some give 1. According to our associate AD (and head of compliance), all student athletes get 1 and are not revoked unless there's an issue with the student and coaches are left continue giving it to them even if the athletes don't turn out how the coaches thought they would. This is how Cal chooses (or used to choose) to do it because we can be better than other schools and we can fulfill our promise to the students and be more than just an organization for sports business.

Blaming me for not reforming the entire college system is like blaming me for not curing hunger when I choose to donate to the local foot shelter. I care about Cal not about the vagaries of other programs out there, many who are willing to do anything to win.


1. 3 years after this multiyear scholarship thing has been made legal, VERY FEW SCHOOLS do it. usually the smaller, less competitive schools do it to try to get a recruiting edge. Illinois, Fresno State.

2. Comparing this system wide policy to global hunger is an unfortunate exaggeration. Many schools do not abuse this policy. Cal does not. Let's say for a second that full-ride scholarships deserve a multiyear agreement. Fine. We're talking about WALK-ONs. They're lucky to be awarded a schollie at all. That's strictly a performance gift. Not something promised when they chose to come to Cal after they were admitted ON ACADEMICS.

I do not think it is unethical or underhanded to renew/not renew a walk-on's scholarship.
NYCGOBEARS
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jamonit;842353333 said:

I give up... Either they don't want to give up their argument and admit they just don't either understand or didn't know... OR they are just using this to slam Sonny Dykes again... Either way it is boring and I am not going to continue to waste time trying to get them to understand that a walkon isn't the same thing as a recruited athlete and that their is no revoking involved. This is the same stupid thing that freshfunk loves to do. Take hardly any facts about something he knows very little about and them complain over and over. Good luck getting them to see the light or admit they just didn't know.


+1 sigh...
Eeyore
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txwharfrat;842353329 said:

Where do you get off using the terminology "pulliing scholarships"? Awarding a walk-on a temporary one year scholarship and then not renewing it is now "pulling" a scholarship. It is living up to your contractual obligation, but not extending beyond that.

What is your deal?


Fine, substitute "not renewing scholarship" for "pulling scholarship". My stance does not change. Even if you don't want to renew, then tell him in person. Dykes/Likens are not oblivious to Grisom's financial situation. Daily Cal had an article about Grisom a year ago. If you're not renewing, tell him early and tell him yourself. Don't cop out and let some admin email do the job for you.
Eeyore
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NYCGOBEARS;842353337 said:

You are talking to a brick wall tex.


I guess you and tx are fine being fired via HR email than being told by your boss in person.
btsktr
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Eeyore;842353341 said:

Fine, substitute "not renewing scholarship" for "pulling scholarship". My stance does not change. Even if you don't want to renew, then tell him in person. Dykes/Likens are not oblivious to Grisom's financial situation. Daily Cal had an article about Grisom a year ago. If you're not renewing, tell him early and tell him yourself. Don't cop out and let some admin email do the job for you.

It is for 1 YEAR! Get your head out of you ass. He signed on for 1 year and he got his 1 year. There was nothing to revoke or pull because the contract had all ready come to an end.
NYCGOBEARS
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Eeyore;842353343 said:

I guess you and tx are fine being fired via HR email than being told by your boss in person.


hyperbole
hīˈpərbəlē/
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric.
freshfunk
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btsktr;842353312 said:

Let's say Cal used 83 scholarships last year. Would have rather had the staff keep the number of scholarships players at 83 when they know they are going to use them for upcoming recruiting class?

If you are so worried about walk-ons getting scholarships revoked (which they are not because they are for 1 year), would you rather have them never give out the extra scholarships they have? They could have never given Lapite and Grissom a shollie and kept the number at 83. But they tried to do the nice thing and award the extra schollies they had for 2013 to deserving walk ons.

I know that as a supporter of Cal, I want them to award any extra scholarships they have to walk ons. But I also want them use those a scholarships for recruiting the next year.

They did not have to award the scholarships to the walk ons, but because they had no other use for them in 2013, they figured they should give them out. But they have every right to use those scholarships the next year for recruiting.


That's one way of looking at it. Yet, our own associate AD says this isn't common practice and the athletes typically keep schollies. If it were me, I'm not granting schollies unless I'm making a full commitment to give that every year until they graduate. I'm giving schollies to schollie athletes, not just using them to use them. Balancing schollies is hard enough, let alone having to make the difficult decision of deciding, every year, who gets revoked and who doesn't.

And, frankly, if that's the case why limit this to walk-on players? Why not put up recruited players to having their schollies revoked? Every year, you must earn it.. all 85 kids. Didn't perform last year? Doesn't matter, bam it's gone. If this were based on performance, we should've revoked half the team's schollies last year.
oski003
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First person who uses the term "straw man" wins this argument!
Vandalus
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freshfunk;842353225 said:

"
What he is saying is that recruited players don't lose scholarships (at Cal). Walk-ons get them for that year, when earned. Then they go back to being walk-ons. He is not the first nor last walk on to go back to paying their own way. "


Can you tell me the last time this happened at Cal without using Google?


Without using google I can tell you that it's common knowledge from personal experience. At Cal, in non revenue sports, it's widely understood that the partial scholarships (since that's what like 80% are on, especially male athletes) that are awarded are on a one year basis and can/will be revoked if you don't perform up to coaches expectations. There is A TON of pressure to perform. This is the norm. Everyone knows it, everyone talks about it openly (not in front of coaches, but it came up often enough). Revenue sport athletes that are recruited guys have the opposite expectation - it's just known that you get it for 4-5 years and that's the way it is, but you can be damned sure that a walk on player who is subsequently granted a scholarship knows that it can be taken away next year. It's also VERY clear if you actually read the scholarship agreement.

And as others have said, almost all awarded scholarships to walkons occur when they are seniors. This was definitely an anomaly.
gobears725
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freshfunk;842353351 said:

That's one way of looking at it. Yet, our own associate AD says this isn't common practice and the athletes typically keep schollies. If it were me, I'm not granting schollies unless I'm making a full commitment to give that every year until they graduate. I'm giving schollies to schollie athletes, not just using them to use them. Balancing schollies is hard enough, let alone having to make the difficult decision of deciding, every year, who gets revoked and who doesn't.

And, frankly, if that's the case why limit this to walk-on players? Why not put up recruited players to having their schollies revoked? Every year, you must earn it.. all 85 kids. Didn't perform last year? Doesn't matter, bam it's gone. If this were based on performance, we should've revoked half the team's schollies last year.


thatd just be pushing over the edge, but FF do you think that its any coincidence that so many players left the program after last season? Some will cite academics, some a transfer etc. they dont need to revoke them most of the time. just ease the guy out the door.
freshfunk
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jamonit;842353333 said:

I give up... Either they don't want to give up their argument and admit they just don't either understand or didn't know... OR they are just using this to slam Sonny Dykes again... Either way it is boring and I am not going to continue to waste time trying to get them to understand that a walkon isn't the same thing as a recruited athlete and that their is no revoking involved. This is the same stupid thing that freshfunk loves to do. Take hardly any facts about something he knows very little about and them complain over and over. Good luck getting them to see the light or admit they just didn't know.


Look, I get you feel differently and that's fine. We will just not see eye-to-eye on certain things and, you know what? That's completely OK with me. I know you will choose not to see things my way and I'll gladly not talk to you because it's a waste of my breath.

But your knee-jerk reaction is to accuse me of "slamming Sonny Dykes again" as if that were my primary motivation is wrong. Regardless of who's coach, this is wrong. I criticized Barbour for her failing and I had nothing personally against her (she wasn't FB coach).

Now I don't think you'll believe me and I don't really care. You can put me on ignore. I'm fine debating this with people who won't completely discount anything I say because of some personal bias.
Eeyore
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btsktr;842353344 said:

It is for 1 YEAR! Get your head out of you ass. He signed on for 1 year and he got his 1 year. There was nothing to revoke or pull because the contract had all ready come to an end.


Is this the best potty-mouthed response you can come up with? Weak... you've gotta come stronger at me. More vulgar the better.

Btw, I'm not aligning myself with FF on this. He's on his own.
jamonit
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txwharfrat;842353314 said:

The only way this reflects poorly on Dykes and Likens is the communications issue. It is pretty normal for a lot of walk-on scholarships to be one year - or even one semester. Strange that he thought this was permanent.

The other weird part ... didn't he notice that he was being overpaid? Where did the money go?


Yeah I am not sure what happened with the communication. If they didn't tell him or just assumed he understood that a walkon scholarship is not a renewable agreement that needs to be revoked then this is a good learning experience for next time. Even if they did it should be used as so. Make sure they understand what it is they are getting... Sadly though it will probably mean that walkon scholarships will probably all be given to SRs now.

I agree on the second part as well? He didn't notice the 11K extra? He said he got 4K extra and gave that back, but that is even weirder. That means he was given 15K extra and gave 4K back? If not he should be able to show what he was given, how much he gave back, and they would have records of payments made to him. Something is not right there.
liverflukes
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oski003;842353357 said:

First person who uses the term "straw man" wins this argument!


I prefer "red herring" as well as "ad hominem" attack use on this board. Both are used ad nauseam IMO.
Unit2Sucks
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freshfunk;842353351 said:

If it were me, I'm not granting schollies unless I'm making a full commitment to give that every year until they graduate.


So you would have let a guy like Grisom bust his ass to work multiple jobs to pay for school and have a scholly go to waste in 2013? I don't understand that at all. I don't like what happened to him and I would be more than happy to join into any compliant efforts to help him, but not using up all your extra schollys to give hard-working walk-ons 1-year deals is a step backwards. Clearly when you grant a one-year scholly to a walk-on you have to make it clear that he's back to the back of the line the next year depending on how many kids you sign, etc. but to let those go to waste would be a big morale-killer.
freshfunk
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Vandalus;842353360 said:

Without using google I can tell you that it's common knowledge from personal experience. At Cal, in non revenue sports, it's widely understood that the partial scholarships (since that's what like 80% are on, especially male athletes) that are awarded are on a one year basis and can/will be revoked if you don't perform up to coaches expectations. There is A TON of pressure to perform. This is the norm. Everyone knows it, everyone talks about it openly (not in front of coaches, but it came up often enough). Revenue sport athletes that are recruited guys have the opposite expectation - it's just known that you get it for 4-5 years and that's the way it is, but you can be damned sure that a walk on player who is subsequently granted a scholarship knows that it can be taken away next year. It's also VERY clear if you actually read the scholarship agreement.

And as others have said, almost all awarded scholarships to walkons occur when they are seniors. This was definitely an anomaly.


Thanks for your reply, Vandy. If we have any former schollie athletes on the board, it would be interesting to hear your positions as well.

What's funny is that you say that "you can be damned sure that a walk on player who is subsequently granted a scholarship knows that it can be taken away next year" and, yet, here we are. Perhaps it's not as clear cut and obvious as you think.
jamonit
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Eeyore;842353341 said:

Fine, substitute "not renewing scholarship" for "pulling scholarship". My stance does not change. Even if you don't want to renew, then tell him in person. Dykes/Likens are not oblivious to Grisom's financial situation. Daily Cal had an article about Grisom a year ago. If you're not renewing, tell him early and tell him yourself. Don't cop out and let some admin email do the job for you.


Oh crap so you have all the sides to this whole story? Why didn't you just say so and save everyone time that you know for a fact that Sonny and/or Likens and/or anyone else in the AD never explained it wasn't a renewable scholarship that needs to be revoked, aka needing approval to not renew? It is amazing because when I sign contracts they never go over stuff with me making sure I understand. They are like please sign right here and we won't explain about what you are signing.
freshfunk
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Unit2Sucks;842353369 said:

So you would have let a guy like Grisom bust his ass to work multiple jobs to pay for school and have a scholly go to waste in 2013? I don't understand that at all. I don't like what happened to him and I would be more than happy to join into any compliant efforts to help him, but not using up all your extra schollys to give hard-working walk-ons 1-year deals is a step backwards. Clearly when you grant a one-year scholly to a walk-on you have to make it clear that he's back to the back of the line the next year depending on how many kids you sign, etc. but to let those go to waste would be a big morale-killer.


Honestly, you get into a morally gray area when you consider their personal financial situation. You could easily ask why give a schollie to a recruited player whose parents are rich when they could come on as a walk-on and you could give that schollie to a needy walk-on.
btsktr
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freshfunk;842353351 said:

That's one way of looking at it. Yet, our own associate AD says this isn't common practice and the athletes typically keep schollies. If it were me, I'm not granting schollies unless I'm making a full commitment to give that every year until they graduate. I'm giving schollies to schollie athletes, not just using them to use them. Balancing schollies is hard enough, let alone having to make the difficult decision of deciding, every year, who gets revoked and who doesn't.

And, frankly, if that's the case why limit this to walk-on players? Why not put up recruited players to having their schollies revoked? Every year, you must earn it.. all 85 kids. Didn't perform last year? Doesn't matter, bam it's gone. If this were based on performance, we should've revoked half the team's schollies last year.


I had a cousin who was offered a walk-on spot at UCLA for men's water polo. The coach at UCLA explained to him that he might have the opportunity to earn a scholarship on a yearly basis, if there we extras available. There never was any extras and he quit the team.

If you think about a kid who was offered a scholarship out of high school, he is probably told that we will honor this commitment throughout your time here if you remain in good academic standing. As a walk-on, the coaches probably tell you that you have an opportunity to earn a scholarship if there are extras available.

It was never REVOKED because there was never a guarantee for a second year. The deal was that you made the team as a walk-on and were never guaranteed a scholarship. But luckily for you we have the opportunity to pay for 1 year of education to the amount of scholarships we have available.

If the AD was so against NOT RENEWING a scholarship, then why would they them do this? The deal at most schools today is that if you are offered a scholarship out of high school then we will RENEW every year as long as you are in good academic standing.
KevBear
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jamonit;842353308 said:

If you are a recruited scholarship athlete you will be renewed every year unless their is a reason not performance based to revoke. Walkons who receive a scholarship do not fall under this same thing. They are given a 1 year scholarship as a reward. Most are given to SRs who have worked hard every year as a reward. As a walkon you can again earn a scholarship the following the year, but it is not guaranteed and doesn't need to be signed off to revoke like a recruited athlete does.


I think that there are problems with your understanding. I do not buy your story that (non-senior) walk-ons who are awarded a scholarship categorically have in the past fallen under a separate administrative practice in the Cal FB program where the renewal of their scholarship is subject to a different review policy than other players.

I can recall several senior walk-ons who were not meaningful contributors on the field who were rewarded for their efforts with scholarships. In those cases, the issue of renewal is not applicable. Here the concept of the "reward" scholarships created by having <85 scholarship players on the roster makes sense.

I can't recall very many underclassmen walk-ons who were given scholarships who were not meaningful contributors on the field. I also cannot recall any of them losing the scholarship after it had been awarded (except for Lapite who was mentioned earlier in the thread and who had graduated--I'm pretty sure Cal has made even recruited scholarship athletes who had remaining eligibility but were not wanted move on after graduating).

Regardless, we know of many, many walk-ons who earned a scholarship as underclassmen and remained as scholarship players their entire careers. Are you telling me that each offseason after they were initially given scholarships that Tedford called Chris Manderino or Mike Mohammed into his office and said, "Congrats, your scholarship will be renewed this year" and before that they were sweating it? No, I bet you anything that was not the case, that once they were given their scholarships there was never another conversation about whether the scholarship would be renewed beyond whatever formality every scholarship player--recruited or not--undergoes to "renew" their scholarship each year.

At least one of the following things must be true for Dykes to not be in the wrong here:

(1) It must be common practice for underclassmen walk-ons to assume--without being told--that if they are given a scholarship it will only be for that year unless they're explicitly told otherwise.

(2) Dykes told Grisom when he gave him the scholie that it would only be for that year.

Grisom's experience implies that (1) is not true, since he assumed his scholarship was permanent. I also do not believe that (1) is true. In fact, I suspect that it is the opposite, that if a coach intends to give a freshman walk-on a scholarship only for that year that he will make it explicitly clear "This is only for this year. I make no promises after that." (at least on a team that claims to not revoke the scholarships of recruited players for performance reasons)

Grisom directly claims that (2) is not true.

Is there more to this story? Dykes knows, but we don't because he won't speak up.
 
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