CalBearinLA;842488131 said:

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Just because SOME children of alumni/donors don't get in, does NOT mean that Cal is not giving preference to their children. You know how many of these kids there are that apply per year?

For all you know, they could've been at the cusp of admittance, but were ultimately passed for someone more qualified.

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My personal belief is based on the fact that I've been told by Cal that they are prohibited by State law from giving preference to donors. One of those things that sounds good in theory but has some unexpected consequences.

Sebastabear;842488143 said:

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My personal belief is based on the fact that I've been told by Cal that they are prohibited by State law from giving preference to donors. One of those things that sounds good in theory but has some unexpected consequences.

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So is that Cals fault? Doesnt sound like it if its a state law

CalBearinLA;842488146 said:

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So is that Cals fault? Doesnt sound like it if its a state law

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"Fault" is a complicated topic here. If I were in Cal's administration I would be lobbying for ways to change this or work around it. Don't think either is happening. I would start by telling the State that this was all great when we were State funded, but when we went from 80% State funded to 11% these rules stopped working. No academic peer lives with these limitations and it hamstrings Cal's ability to build the relationships with donors it clearly now needs to survive under this paradigm shift.

I wonder what the response would be among alumni for a true privatization movement (clearly hypothetical).

I would donate more...but my donations are pretty small compared to most...but it would be more than I do now.

Sebastabear;842488157 said:

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"Fault" is a complicated topic here. If I were in Cal's administration I would be lobbying for ways to change this or work around it. Don't think either is happening. I would start by telling the State that this was all great when we were State funded, but when we went from 80% State funded to 11% these rules stopped working. No academic peer lives with these limitations and it hamstrings Cal's ability to build the relationships with donors it clearly now needs to survive under this paradigm shift.

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I get that it should be a two way street and Cal should be lobbying...but it seems that most people (not referring to you specifically Sebastabear) on this board are quick to bash on Cal without seeing the bigger picture...which as you stated, seems to be an issue that the State Law prohibits Cal from giving preferential treatment. I mean, look at the title of this thread, "UC BERKELEY ADMISSIONS SUCKS!!!!"

Unless there is definite proof that Cal really doesn't give a rat's @$$ about alumni and is NOT making any efforts to lobby for this change, then I wouldn't be so quick to blame the university exclusively

CalBearinLA;842488165 said:

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I get that it should be a two way street and Cal should be lobbying...but it seems that most people (not referring to you specifically Sebastabear) on this board are quick to bash on Cal without seeing the bigger picture...which as you stated, seems to be an issue that the State Law prohibits Cal from giving preferential treatment. I mean, look at the title of this thread, "UC BERKELEY ADMISSIONS SUCKS!!!!"

Unless there is definite proof that Cal really doesn't give a rat's @$$ about alumni and is NOT making any efforts to lobby for this change, then I wouldn't be so quick to blame the university exclusively

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Fair point. And honestly my belief is only based on some conversations over the years with admin as well as what is presented to a few Cal boards I sit on. Cal is a large and complex entity and rarely, if ever, operates in a homogeneous fashion. There may very well be things going on that I don't know about.

72CalBear;842487626 said:

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Sorry about those rejected..that's life..My high school seniors, many of whom go to four year schools, don't even apply to Cal or Ucla anymore like they used to. They see a total of 200,000 applicants and the word is out - Chinese, Asians, and "special kids" who didn't do all the student council, voluteering, resume building, and cheating in their AP classes to try and get in to either school with a 5.0 GPA! The other UCs suffer the same way - UCSD is reserved for scientists, UCD for farmers, UCSB surfers, UCI is also "all Asian" and hell to survive - Santa Cruz hardly matters to them - and the rest of the campuses are just blurs on their iphones. Sorry for those who wanted Cal, but there is nothing you can do about it. The JC route makes sense - even at Stanford where Foothill JC used to be a pipeline and Santa Monica CC to Ucla..Good luck all.

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So Chinese and Asians are different? Wow.

Sebastabear;842488078 said:

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That's horrifying. Seriously. What does it actually take to get admitted these days? I mean on some level the more stories like this I hear the more I think they just throw darts at a board in the admissions office.

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It was sad because she was so sad and I felt guilty for instilling a such a love for Cal and Berkeley in her, taking her to games since she was little, visiting the T-Rex skeleton, going to the top of the Campanile, roaming the campus and Telegraph. It was really the only school she ever wanted to go to and the one she had worked so hard to get into. Her problem was her GPA was "only" 3.8 (4.0 weighted with AP classes) giving her a class rank somewhere below 50 (roughly 20 valedictorians had perfect grades) at one of the top scoring schools in the country (MSJH) that gets only about 50 in (still more than any other school). She really would have been better off at a less rigorous/less competitive high school. Like some here, I thought that if she mentioned in her essay that she was African American and discussed the bias she had faced and overcome in high school that it would help her get into Cal. In her case, it did not (nor did it help her appeal). However, maybe it depends on the reader who gets assigned to you? The irony is that many of her classmates who got into Cal would have preferred the environment at the elite private schools that were throwing money at her unsolicited (based on her test scores) to come.

Instead she went to UCSD where she was one of 40 "African Americans" in her freshman class (of roughly 5,000).

That is one reason why it irks me to read people here act as if Cal/UC still has affirmative action or to complain about the environment around the Cal campus. There are LOTS of good schools with clean, boring suburban campuses with lots of parking and plenty of fast food chain options. There is only one Cal, so please choose Cal if you are going to love it and enjoy living in Berkeley, not just because it is the highest rated school you got into.

Son-of-California;842488080 said:

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Cal is one the of greatest universities in the entire world. There are some amazingly qualified and talented people that get passed over. Sadly, not everyone that deserves to get in does. Then there are some who get in that had no business there (but enough about me). I'm all for whatever keeps Cal the best school on the planet. Now, we need to work on our athletics...

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Great post.

calumnus;842488190 said:

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It is was sad because she was so sad and I felt guilty for instilling a such a love for Cal and Berkeley in her, taking her to games since she was little, visiting the T-Rex skeleton, going to the top of the Campanile, roaming the campus and Telegraph. It was really the only school she ever wanted to go to and the one she had worked so hard to get into. Her problem was her GPA was "only" 3.8 (4.0 weighted with AP classes) giving her a class rank somewhere below 50 (roughly 20 valedictorians had perfect grades) at one of the top scoring schools in the country (MSJH) that gets only about 50 in (still more than any other school). She really would have been better off at a less rigorous/less competitive high school. Like some here, I thought that if she mentioned in her essay that she was African American and discussed the bias she had faced and overcome in high school that it would help her get into Cal. In her case, it did not (nor did it help her appeal). However, maybe it depends on the reader who gets assigned to you?

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I think it's really unfortunate that someone, that grew up with Cal as her Dream school, did not get into Cal. Ethnicity aside, it should have been enough that 1) she went to a top scoring school and 2) she grew up with Cal in the family.

However, basically everybody I know has played the African American / bias card in their essays. Especially going to MSJH (I assume this is Mission San Jose), which is a fantastic school, I dont think it helps to include that in the essay. I went to a prestigious private school, and had several friends transfer out to less competitive schools and excel there. They ended up at Harvard/Yale/Ivies by standing out at a lesser school and would not have had that opportunity at a top HS. Even though playing the minority card in admissions seems like the easy out, it can hurt you since it is very, very overplayed.

Also, the plea for people to choose Cal only if they "love it and want to live in Berkeley" will only affect people on the waitlist. Other than that, everybody's free to apply wherever they want. If you were flat out rejected, this plea won't help much.

calumnus;842488190 said:

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It was sad because she was so sad and I felt guilty for instilling a such a love for Cal and Berkeley in her, taking her to games since she was little, visiting the T-Rex skeleton, going to the top of the Campanile, roaming the campus and Telegraph. It was really the only school she ever wanted to go to and the one she had worked so hard to get into. Her problem was her GPA was "only" 3.8 (4.0 weighted with AP classes) giving her a class rank somewhere below 50 (roughly 20 valedictorians had perfect grades) at one of the top scoring schools in the country (MSJH) that gets only about 50 in (still more than any other school). She really would have been better off at a less rigorous/less competitive high school. Like some here, I thought that if she mentioned in her essay that she was African American and discussed the bias she had faced and overcome in high school that it would help her get into Cal. In her case, it did not (nor did it help her appeal). However, maybe it depends on the reader who gets assigned to you? The irony is that many of her classmates who got into Cal would have preferred the environment at the elite private schools that were throwing money at her unsolicited (based on her test scores) to come.

Instead she went to UCSD where she was one of 40 "African Americans" in her freshman class (of roughly 5,000).

That is one reason why it irks me to read people here act as if Cal/UC still has affirmative action or to complain about the environment around the Cal campus. There are LOTS of schools with clean, boring suburban campuses with lots of parking and plenty of fast food chain options. There is only one Cal, so please choose Cal if you are going to love it and living in Berkeley, not just because it is the highest rated school you got into.

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I'm not entirely sure that the schools put much stock into the rank. I had a class rank at MSJHS of 250/425 with an overall GPA of 3.5 (UC GPA of 4.3) and got in just fine. I'm also not an (underrepresented) minority, nor a 1st generation college student, so I couldn't play that card. I did get to take a crapton of AP classes sophomore year, since half the school is in AP. At a less competitive school I highly doubt I would have had those same resources, which would have resulted in a lower weighted GPA and very likely a rejection given that there would have been no way for me to differentiate myself from the pack.

CalBearinLA;842488196 said:

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I think it's really unfortunate that someone, that grew up with Cal as her Dream school, did not get into Cal. Ethnicity aside, it should have been enough that 1) she went to a top scoring school and 2) she grew up with Cal in the family.

However, basically everybody I know has played the African American / bias card in their essays. Especially going to MSJH (I assume this is Mission San Jose), which is a fantastic school, I dont think it helps to include that in the essay. I went to a prestigious private school, and had several friends transfer out to less competitive schools and excel there. They ended up at Harvard/Yale/Ivies by standing out at a lesser school and would not have had that opportunity at a top HS. Even though playing the minority card in admissions seems like the easy out, it can hurt you since it is very, very overplayed.

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I believe you are right. Unfortunately, she was advised to include it by people (including college advisors) who honestly believed it would help (it had been reported that the "comprehensive review" was to increase Cal's underrepresented minorities, there was even a lawsuit by affirmative action opponents on that basis). My understanding after the fact is that it depends on the reader and that some of Cal's essay readers are so firmly against affirmative action (before or after being instructed what Prop 209 says) that they actually view mentioning you are African American as a negative (as you suggest).

pingpong2;842488197 said:

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I'm not entirely sure that the schools put much stock into the rank. I had a class rank at MSJHS of 250/425 with an overall GPA of 3.5 (UC GPA of 4.3) and got in just fine. I'm also not an (underrepresented) minority, nor a 1st generation college student, so I couldn't play that card. I did get to take a crapton of AP classes sophomore year, since half the school is in AP. At a less competitive school I highly doubt I would have had those same resources, which would have resulted in a lower weighted GPA and very likely a rejection given that there would have been no way for me to differentiate myself from the pack.

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Hey, you got in, can't argue with success. However, what year was that? What was Cal's admission criteria then? How many kids got into Cal your year from MSJH? Why do you think you got in but roughly 200 or so kids with better grades at your same school did not? How did you "differentiate yourself from the pack"?

calumnus;842488200 said:

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I believe you are right. Unfortunately, she was advised to include it by people (including college advisors) who honestly believed it would help (it had been reported that the "comprehensive review" was to increase Cal's underrepresented minorities, there was even a lawsuit by affirmative action opponents on that basis). My understanding after the fact is that it depends on the reader and that some of Cal's essay readers are so firmly against affirmative action (before or after being instructed what Prop 209 says) that they actually view mentioning you are African American as a negative (as you suggest).

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Could be that or, in my opinion, the mention of ethnicity in that context in essays doesn't make an applicant stand out anymore. I mentor many undergrads and HS students now, and they're default prompts for admissions essays are almost always to rely on ethnicity and the struggle. As an admissions person, I would most likely scan through and dismiss essays that have this as the main prompt since I'd rather see someone that has written about something else to show off how they are multidimensional and not cookie cutter.

being african american doesn't necessarily help, but having a thoughtful essay that articulates how your struggles helped you grow and make you more qualified for the college experience, might. your selected major makes a difference, too. i know a lot of people who got rejected after applying "undeclared." even though most kids really don't know what the heck they want to be before they get to college, and many still don't after, selecting a major and having an articulate essay that corresponds to your goals shows focus, drive and passion. this probably stands out, but i'm not on an admission committee.

calumnus;842488203 said:

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What year was that? What was Cal's admission criteria then? How many kids got into Cal your year from MSJH? Why do you think you got in but the kids with better grades did not? How did you "differentiate yourself from the pack"?

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2005. Back then it was about 50 as well. Differentiator was that I took AP Physics, AP Bio, AP Calculus BC, and AP Stats as a sophomore, and by senior year ran out of math and science classes so I was able to petition to take half my courses at Ohlone and CSU Hayward instead (which in turn transferred over as credit at Cal and allowed me to get first dibs for classes during TeleBears each semester). I used my personal statement to highlight the whole process of challenging myself and taking the initiative to petition to take college courses in lieu of high school courses, figuring that's something AdCom would want to see.

My brother applied in 2010, and he had a class rank of around 80 something and got in as well, hence why I'm fairly convinced rank doesn't mean a whole lot. ECs was pretty much on par with what everyone else has: Model UN, Quiz Bowl, Band, and maybe some other minor small. His academics were unspectacular and consistent with everyone else, but his differentiator was a perfect 2400 and three 800s on the SATII. I'm guessing that was what did the trick. Kind of like what our football team needs to succeed; an OK defense to keep the game close, and then a high-power offense to blow the other team away.

In any case, the folks with higher rank who didn't get in 1) didn't score well enough on the SATs and SAT IIs, 2) didn't take enough AP classes, and 3) probably didn't market themselves well in their personal statement. I can only imagine today it's probably even more critical to have high test scores and a transcript loaded with advanced classes just to hold serve. The way I see it, a ton of extracurriculars helps get you in, but it doesn't help overcome "lower" scores/GPAs because there are a bevy of other applicants with a ton of ECs and higher scores/GPAs (and I say "lower" because what's considered low by Cal admit standards is pretty darn high). ECs just helps you build separation from the folks who have high scores but less ECs, and at the end of the day, you really need to excel in both aspects to have the best shot and not have to rely on the AdComs attitude on the day they evaluate your application.

What sucks is there are two many people. There are double the people but not double the open spots and Cal. Take this for consolation, you have iphones now instead of rotary phones. There are other things that are better now than back then obviously, admission spot availability is just not one of them.

pingpong2;842488212 said:

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2005. Back then it was about 50 as well. Differentiator was that I took AP Physics, AP Bio, AP Calculus BC, and AP Stats as a sophomore, and by senior year ran out of math and science classes so I was able to petition to take half my courses at Ohlone and CSU Hayward instead (which in turn transferred over as credit at Cal and allowed me to get first dibs for classes during TeleBears each semester). I used my personal statement to highlight the whole process of challenging myself and taking the initiative to petition to take college courses in lieu of high school courses, figuring that's something AdCom would want to see.

My brother applied in 2010, and he had a class rank of around 80 something and got in as well, hence why I'm fairly convinced rank doesn't mean a whole lot. ECs was pretty much on par with what everyone else has: Model UN, Quiz Bowl, Band, and maybe some other minor small. His academics were unspectacular and consistent with everyone else, but his differentiator was a perfect 2400 and three 800s on the SATII. I'm guessing that was what did the trick. Kind of like what our football team needs to succeed; an OK defense to keep the game close, and then a high-power offense to blow the other team away.

In any case, the folks with higher rank who didn't get in 1) didn't score well enough on the SATs and SAT IIs, 2) didn't take enough AP classes, and 3) probably didn't market themselves well in their personal statement. I can only imagine today it's probably even more critical to have high test scores and a transcript loaded with advanced classes just to hold serve. The way I see it, a ton of extracurriculars helps get you in, but it doesn't help overcome "lower" scores/GPAs because there are a bevy of other applicants with a ton of ECs and higher scores/GPAs (and I say "lower" because what's considered low by Cal admit standards is pretty darn high). ECs just helps you build separation from the folks who have high scores but less ECs, and at the end of the day, you really need to excel in both aspects to have the best shot and not have to rely on the AdComs attitude on the day they evaluate your application.

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My understanding is that, right now, you stand a better chance being very highly ranked from a underrepresented HS in an underrepresented area, than being a lot less highly ranked, coming from, say, a Lowell or an MSJ... if the other, more important metrics (GPA, SAT, EC, PS) are basically equal. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

burritos;842488223 said:

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What sucks is there are two many people. There are double the people but not double the open spots and Cal. Take this for consolation, you have iphones now instead of rotary phones. There are other things that are better now than back then obviously, admission spot availability is just not one of them.

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Neither are our Rose Bowl aspirations, sadly.

Big C_Cal;842488226 said:

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My understanding is that, right now, you stand a better chance being very highly ranked from a underrepresented HS in an underrepresented area, than being a lot less highly ranked, coming from, say, a Lowell or an MSJ... if the other, more important metrics (GPA, SAT, EC, PS) are basically equal. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

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Maybe, but the caveat with attending a lower performing school is that you likely won't have the opportunities that you might have at a higher performing school. You can have the same GPA, the same SAT scores, but you might not be able to load up on things like debate team, science bowl, math team, every AP class under the sun, cool projects, counselors and teachers who know what to say in the recs to get the students in, etc.

Big C_Cal;842488226 said:

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My understanding is that, right now, you stand a better chance being very highly ranked from a underrepresented HS in an underrepresented area, than being a lot less highly ranked, coming from, say, a Lowell or an MSJ... if the other, more important metrics (GPA, SAT, EC, PS) are basically equal. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

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UC added "Eligibility in Local Context" (top 9% from every high school) LINK

For awhile Cal reserved 50% of the freshman class for the top 2% from every public high school in California. May still, or may have gone to a more holistic/subjective evaluation of EVERYONE which takes into account the resources available to you.
From the Berkeley website: LINK

Quote:

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All achievement—both academic and non-academic/personal—is considered in the context of your educational circumstances, with an emphasis on the opportunities or challenges presented to you and your response to them. It is important tonote that no single attribute or characteristic guarantees the admission of any applicant to Berkeley.

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PingPong's example, though at a different time, showed how he really challenged himself by taking classes at the local CC.

burritos;842488223 said:

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What sucks is there are two many people. There are double the people but not double the open spots and Cal. Take this for consolation, you have iphones now instead of rotary phones. There are other things that are better now than back then obviously, admission spot availability is just not one of them.

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Do online applications result in more people applying? Is it easier to not -- as we did in the olden days -- have to go to print everything out and go to the post office?

pingpong2;842488228 said:

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Maybe, but the caveat with attending a lower performing school is that you likely won't have the opportunities that you might have at a higher performing school. You can have the same GPA, the same SAT scores, but you might not be able to load up on things like debate team, science bowl, math team, every AP class under the sun, cool projects, counselors and teachers who know what to say in the recs to get the students in, etc.

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I think the sweet spot is somewhere in between, not the best school or the worst, but being a smart, motivated kid at a large public school that has lots of AP classes, debate teams, etc., but where the number of kids competing for those classes/spots is relatively small (but big enough to be a peer group) so you can really load up on AP classes, awards, activities, etc.

calumnus;842488232 said:

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PingPong's example, though at a different time, showed how he really challenged himself by taking classes at the local CC.

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In all honesty, my mom made me do it. I was just excited about the prospect of getting a car to drive to and fro. Were it up to me I'd probably have just put everything on cruise control and gone through the entire year with a heavy case of senioritis. And in all seriousness, the CC classes turned out to be arguably easier than the AP classes, but they sure sounded better on my application. It helped that the majority of students who took those classes didn't do all that well in high school (hence why they were enrolled there in the first place).

pingpong2;842488239 said:

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In all honesty, my mom made me do it. I was just excited about the prospect of getting a car to drive to and fro. Were it up to me I'd probably have just put everything on cruise control and gone through the entire year with a heavy case of senioritis. And in all seriousness, the CC classes turned out to be arguably easier than the AP classes, but they sure sounded better on my application. It helped that the majority of students who took those classes didn't do all that well in high school (hence why they were enrolled there in the first place).

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Oh I understand, it is just that it (probably) differentiated you from the hundreds of other MSJH students who were all taking AP classes, filling up on extra-curriculars etc.

Though at the end of the day, the bottom line is kids (and their parents) have to accept that there is a certain amount of randomness in the process (especially who reviews your application/reads your essay).

Very different than in my day when it was a pure formula based on your SAT scores (with 1600 as the max) and A-F requirement GPA (with very few AP classes offered and no one I knew taking SAT prep classes).

bearsandgiants;842488209 said:

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being african american doesn't necessarily help, but having a thoughtful essay that articulates how your struggles helped you grow and make you more qualified for the college experience, might. your selected major makes a difference, too. i know a lot of people who got rejected after applying "undeclared." even though most kids really don't know what the heck they want to be before they get to college, and many still don't after, selecting a major and having an articulate essay that corresponds to your goals shows focus, drive and passion. this probably stands out, but i'm not on an admission committee.

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I think there is a grain of truth here - I have assisted several senior students with their personal essay to Cal and other UC's and "circumstances" and "challenges" certainly seem to count. Whenever one of my students gets accepted to Cal - I search them for any common traits: There don't seem to be any other than perhaps "exceptional" something or other (ie. art or music awards, volunteer recognition, first family member to apply to college, single parent family, and then of course BIG obstacles that have been overcome. It's always surprising to hear that so many applicants "get" in to Ucla, not Cal, or Stanford, Ivy's, etc. It is hard to come up with any guidelines other than very high GPA/SAT + exceptional stuff.

I guess its worth noting that at JC's there are no AP classes and you don't report SAT scores transferring from JC to the UC system (private schools like Stanford still want them reported).

While I would argue that my JC classes were no easier than my AP classes, I will definitely agree that they were a lot less competitive.

And having written that you would think JC's are a dirty little secret back door into schools like Cal, but JC transfers tend to perform much much better than students admitted as freshman in upper division courses.

All that said...grade inflation is just sad and has made it impossible to use grades as a true differentiator between students. It wasn't hard to see the difference between two students getting A's in my honors classes, but when all was said and done they got the same grade.

I also don't like how much gaming of the system has come about due to grade inflation and the stress put on students to be perfect. At Berkeley half the people in my frat made up their course load 100% based on % of A's the professor gave out based on rate my professor.com. whether the class was interesting or would further their education was irrelevant to them all they cared about was the grade. I imagine that sort of thing happens at high schools that offer multiple AP classes too.

~MrGPAC

The shortage of prestige public universities is acute and the parents and students know it - thus the tremendous application numbers and then the manuevering, grade inflating, and cheating to try and get accepted. My wife teaches 5th grade in a moderately affluent neighborhood and she put a Cal flag up in her classroom in September, only to be challenged by parents to also include Ucla, and then of course, USC and Stanford. But those were the only other flags that were insisted. You can ride your bike from her school to LB State, yet parents want the top notch schools this early on with their kids. The emphasis on grades is unbelievable and she is forever stressed about keeping up on make-up work and extra credit - none of these parents want to see any grade lower than an A..Think about what this does to the young student who in fact, may have interests, skills, and desires outside of the four year university degree. Examples: Our two sons who went into firefighting, leaving the college degree to our daughter. At the high school where I teach, we actually attempted to make the A-G requirements OUR graduation requirements! The legacy of that fallacy is something we are still dealing with today!

Big C_Cal;842488226 said:

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My understanding is that, right now, you stand a better chance being very highly ranked from a underrepresented HS in an underrepresented area, than being a lot less highly ranked, coming from, say, a Lowell or an MSJ... if the other, more important metrics (GPA, SAT, EC, PS) are basically equal. Can anybody confirm or deny this?

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Anecdotally only. Daughter's friend's older sister went to a large, competitive public HS (something like 27 weighted classes offered). She did well but did not get perfect grades. Rejected by Cal and Ucla two years ago, Her cousin, same year, went to a nearby Hs in a working class community that offered only a few weighted courses. Lower gpa and over 100 points lower on sat. Admitted to both cal and ucla. Both are indian-american females.

calumnus;842488232 said:

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PingPong's example, though at a different time, showed how he really challenged himself by taking classes at the local CC.

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Classes at a competitve HS are much harder than any JC. Probably at CSU too.

MisterNoodle;842488403 said:

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Anecdotally only. Daughter's friend's older sister went to a large, competitive public HS (something like 27 weighted classes offered). She did well but did not get perfect grades. Rejected by Cal and Ucla two years ago, Her cousin, same year, went to a nearby Hs in a working class community that offered only a few weighted courses. Lower gpa and over 100 points lower on sat. Admitted to both cal and ucla. Both are indian-american females.

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This. I recognize that it is anecdotal only, but it really does seem to be the case.

MisterNoodle;842488406 said:

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Classes at a competitve HS are much harder than any JC. Probably at CSU too.

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Actually, my daughters' friends from MSJH universally say college (Cal, UCLA, UCSD, Harvard, Stanford, Duke etc. ) is easier.

GATC;842487842 said:

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I think you have to donate more. A friend donated $2.5M and got a room named after him, but his son did not get into Cal. I got invited to the ceremony and they served punch and cookies and had to listen to people making speeches. I get better punch and cookies when I donated blood.

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People want to know why donations are hard to come by.

okaydo;842487986 said:

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So THAT's why a whopping 5 Pacific Islanders were enrolled last year.

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These are sobering numbers...