I am a daily red wine drinker and as such, am always looking for a good bottle of red in the twenty bucks a bottle league, plus or minus. I can find some Italian and French reds, sold in small lots to local wine stores for $18 to $28, but it is hit and miss as they they quickly sell out. I like the Europeans because they have a slightly lower alcohol content and are thus dryer. The best CA red I have found is Hafner Cabernet (a mail order boutique winery near Healdsburg, CA, with a Cal connection), just under 14% alcohol, great stuff, made like the best of French red, but at over $47 a bottle I don't drink it everyday. Much CA red is well over 14%, which means big, heavy flavor and getting blasted fast. Anyone else out there with this dilemma? What do you like?

Number 031343;842508169 said:

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I am a daily red wine drinker and as such, am always looking for a good bottle of red in the twenty bucks a bottle league, plus or minus. I can find some Italian and French reds, sold in small lots to local wine stores for $18 to $28, but it is hit and miss as they they quickly sell out. I like the Europeans because they have a slightly lower alcohol content and are thus dryer. The best CA red I have found is Hafner Cabernet (a mail order boutique winery near Healdsburg, CA, with a Cal connection), just under 14% alcohol, great stuff, made like the best of French red, but at over $47 a bottle I don't drink it everyday. Much CA red is well over 14%, which means big, heavy flavor and getting blasted fast. Anyone else out there with this dilemma? What do you like?

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Spit out that red wine! Spit out that red wine! Spit out that red wine!

Tablas Creek in Paso Robles, Patelin de Tablas. They're a French house that makes Rhone varietals in CA

grandmastapoop;842508171 said:

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Spit out that red wine! Spit out that red wine! Spit out that red wine!

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cheers

Charles Shaw. You get eight bottles for your $20

That is what you meant, right?

Made a note of that one, thanks!

Wow! Looks like a great alternative, what do you make that with?
Yes, despite my initial question, I am an easy make for attractive booze.

Try wtso on line. Been getting some good reds for $18
They are in New Jersey. Free shipping

My brother is on a perpetual search for a good CA red for $20. One type he likes is Justin. I'm not sure of the price he pays.

oskidunker;842508192 said:

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Try wtso on line. Been getting some good reds for $18
They are in New Jersey. Free shipping

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Thanks.

I like wine okay, but I think I'm in my "post-connoisseur" phase. I drink the Trader Joe's reds from France that average maybe $6 a bottle. They're about 13-13.5 % alcohol. To me, they seem fine for everyday. Can't see spending a lot more than that on an everyday wine, it just seems like a waste, or conspicuous consumption. Anybody think an average, educated French person spends a lot of euros on everyday wines? They do not. That's good enough for me.

At a dinner party recently, guys were all twirling around their wine glasses and talking like they knew wines. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but they bored the crap out of me.

I know nobody on this board reads the Chronicle because it sucks, but did anybody happen to see the recent article in a "Bay Area daily" about rich, young techies that are taking classes/tests to get sommelier designations? One of the clowns was quoted as saying something like it gives him a certain gravitas in social/cultural settings... he wears the sommelier pin sometimes. I'm thinking of my next novel (which will also be my first), something like "Desperately Seeking Gravitas".

I'm a reformed wine geek, and I have a real soft spot for Cali Pinots and Zins made by Cali Pinot makers. I've bought from a number of producers over the years, but in the interest of my liver and my bank account, I've made the decision to buy only from a select few producers. I, too, think I don't need high alcohol wines (and beers), but some producers do a far better job than others at keeping all that in balance.
In that price range I'd look into Sandler wines. Ed Kurtzman is one if the very best CA Pinot producers, he's based in SF, and the prices are absurdly good considering the quality. I'm also a very big fan of Joseph Swan, as Rod Berglund is some kind of wizard whose wines always seem to age wonderfully. Some of his bottles are in that price range, but keep an eye for older vintages that they release. They often release stuff that they've sat on for years.

I have spent the last 25 years making wine for major US companies.
- The best bargains in CA reds are Merlots. Long hangover from the Sideways mis-characterization. When ordering off a menu, I often go for Merlot. Best bang for the buck in CA red wines.
- (CA Pinot Noir and Cabernet would be the other end of the spectrum. Both varietals are priced at a healthy level.)
- If you like big wines, try a Lodi Petite Syrah. Any good Cab under $20 probably blended in a bunch of PetS to give it some oomph.

Wineries like Bronco (maker of Charles Shaw) and McManis make bulk wine for most of their better-known competitors.

Good values there (McManis Petite is around $10 at BevMo or Total Wine).

Last Fall I attended a fundraiser where a Robert Hall cabernet was one of the options. I really enjoyed it and now search it out when I am looking for a good red in the price range you are talking about. Here is a web link with ratings of their wines: http://buyingguide.winemag.com/wineries/robert-hall

Also, a friend of mine told me about a little known winery in the Paso Robles area by the name of Caparone. Caparone makes very good reds and every bottle is $14. Here is a link to a Yelp review of Caparone: http://www.yelp.com/biz/caparone-winery-paso-robles

Had a bottle of Layer Cake Shiraz last night with a steak. Good wine for @ $15-17.

Join the Jacuzzi winery in Sonoma and have them ship you your wines. They provide the best bang for your buck in the valley IMO and import most of their grapes from Italy.

Joining gets you 25% off each bottle and they have a great variety of unique reds. They have a solid cab for $18, a great Nero D'Avola, a very good Barbera, and a Primitivo all for just under $20 they also have a Montepulciano that is pricier but worth the splurge every now and then.

Reds from Chile and Argentina are generally very good. You can head to wine shops and do well getting things under $20 in those sections.

Yes Argentinian wines are a good value and decent quality, a lot of their reds have an old world quality to them due to the older winemaking traditions.

"Reds" is a bit too wide, it depends what you are pairing it with. For meats, Cahors is one of the best values from France (southwest), incidentally heavily leaning on the Malbec varietal, which is often used in Argentinian reds. About $10-$15.

For CA, Edmunds St John is a good winery that makes original reds in the $20 price range, southern french style syrah-grenache, great with tomato sauce dishes and aps, or lighter gamays.

Beckmen cuvee le bec 2012, not a first growth, but not bad

slobear;842508343 said:

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Last Fall I attended a fundraiser where a Robert Hall cabernet was one of the options. I really enjoyed it and now search it out when I am looking for a good red in the price range you are talking about. Here is a web link with ratings of their wines: http://buyingguide.winemag.com/wineries/robert-hall

Also, a friend of mine told me about a little known winery in the Paso Robles area by the name of Caparone. Caparone makes very good reds and every bottle is $14. Here is a link to a Yelp review of Caparone: http://www.yelp.com/biz/caparone-winery-paso-robles

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Thanks for those leads and the links. I forgot about Robert Hall, though I seem to recall hearing good things about them some time. I will look into Caparone.

Cal88;842508380 said:

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Yes Argentinian wines are a good value and decent quality, a lot of their reds have an old world quality to them due to the older winemaking traditions.

"Reds" is a bit too wide, it depends what you are pairing it with. For meats, Cahors is one of the best values from France (southwest), incidentally heavily leaning on the Malbec varietal, which is often used in Argentinian reds. About $10-$15.

For CA, Edmunds St John is a good winery that makes original reds in the $20 price range, southern french style syrah-grenache, great with tomato sauce dishes and aps, or lighter gamays.

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Thanks for those suggestions.

Thanks for that. I recall reading an article about Italian wines increasing their share of the CA market a couple of years ago. Jacuzzi sounds interesting.

Big C_Cal;842508215 said:

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I like wine okay, but I think I'm in my "post-connoisseur" phase. I drink the Trader Joe's reds from France that average maybe $6 a bottle. They're about 13-13.5 % alcohol. To me, they seem fine for everyday. Can't see spending a lot more than that on an everyday wine, it just seems like a waste, or conspicuous consumption. Anybody think an average, educated French person spends a lot of euros on everyday wines? They do not. That's good enough for me.

At a dinner party recently, guys were all twirling around their wine glasses and talking like they knew wines. Maybe they do, maybe they don't, but they bored the crap out of me.

I know nobody on this board reads the Chronicle because it sucks, but did anybody happen to see the recent article in a "Bay Area daily" about rich, young techies that are taking classes/tests to get sommelier designations? One of the clowns was quoted as saying something like it gives him a certain gravitas in social/cultural settings... he wears the sommelier pin sometimes. I'm thinking of my next novel (which will also be my first), something like "Desperately Seeking Gravitas".

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I drank some of Trader Joe's low cost French reds a few years ago and thought some were good and others not so good. I just wore out the ones I likes and moved on. Thanks for your comments, it may be a good time to go back and see what they have on the shelves now. Interesting thing about some low cost French and Italian reds is that while they may be rough the first day you open them, put the cork back in and let them sit on the counter for one or two more days and try them again. Some of them really improve, you don't think you are drinking the same wine that you opened, the difference is so great. Still, I have a hunch europe's best wine bargains stay in europe. I think we get a lot of europe's overproduction which leads to a lot of hit and miss results. I may be wrong.

I also like your comments about the techies and wine "education" or whatever it was that was taking place. I saw that article and declined to read it after looking at the pictures. I operate on one premise: "If it doesn't taste good, even after three days airing, don't buy it again." Wine snobbery is for the desperate. Do they plan to leave the price sticker on it? I think it is all about name dropping. I once tried a bottle of cabernet at $125 just to see if it was four or five times as good as what I was drinking. It was a good wine, but not four or five times as good, not even close. Let me know when you publish that book.

Thanks to all! I have a great list going here.

Number 031343;842508410 said:

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I drank some of Trader Joe's low cost French reds a few years ago and thought some were good and others not so good. I just wore out the ones I likes and moved on. Thanks for your comments, it may be a good time to go back and see what they have on the shelves now. Interesting thing about some low cost French and Italian reds is that while they may be rough the first day you open them, put the cork back in and let them sit on the counter for one or two more days and try them again. Some of them really improve, you don't think you are drinking the same wine that you opened, the difference is so great. Still, I have a hunch europe's best wine bargains stay in europe. I think we get a lot of europe's overproduction which leads to a lot of hit and miss results. I may be wrong.

I also like your comments about the techies and wine "education" or whatever it was that was taking place. I saw that article and declined to read it after looking at the pictures. I operate on one premise: "If it doesn't taste good, even after three days airing, don't buy it again." Wine snobbery is for the desperate. Do they plan to leave the price sticker on it? I think it is all about name dropping. I once tried a bottle of cabernet at $125 just to see if it was four or five times as good as what I was drinking. It was a good wine, but not four or five times as good, not even close. Let me know when you publish that book.

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Very true about the wines that are better the next day. LOL, my wife won't drink it if it's been opened for more than 2 days... "Is it still okay to drink?" I score points by finishing those for her and letting her open a new bottle.

Thanks for not taking it the wrong way when I may have seemed to disparage the idea of a $20 every day wine. I once bought a particular Chateauneuf du Pape at TJ's that was really good... bought it at the holidays, I wanna say it was $26... even though that is a bit beyond my price point... I liked it so much it started to become my everyday. Finally, they stopped carrying that one and its replacement wasn't as good. Point is, I might go above the $5-10 range, if I really noticed a payoff. In fact, I just might try a few wines mentioned in this thread, so thanks.

You're very lucky in the Bay Area as far as wine imports, with the best choices and prices in N. America. Yes the fare at the big chains and supermarkets is more ngociant-driven (large dealers with commercial clout who bottle stuff from large vats), but there are plenty of good winesellers in the Bay who go the distance and deal with quality, off-the-beaten-path vintners.

"The Buccaneer - Dead Drift Red".
$19.95 at BevMo, but can be with a 5 cent special so you can get two for $20.
93 points on Wine Spectator, but that's what someone else thinks. I've tried it, like the blend very much, so I'll drink more.
Introduced it to some others who like younger reds like I do and they've been impressed as well.

Have you tried any Carol Shelton wines in Santa Rosa? I like her reds especially Zins. Go to http://www.carolshelton.com/. She has some under $20 especially if you join her wine club. She has some good whites too. One of her whites won best of show at the California State Fair last year.

Was in the jacquzzi wine club for a year. Did not like most of their wines. That being said,it is a beautiful facility. Havrnt tried any in 10 years. Maybe they are better now

RJABear;842508341 said:

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I have spent the last 25 years making wine for major US companies.
- The best bargains in CA reds are Merlots. Long hangover from the Sideways mis-characterization. When ordering off a menu, I often go for Merlot. Best bang for the buck in CA red wines.
- (CA Pinot Noir and Cabernet would be the other end of the spectrum. Both varietals are priced at a healthy level.)
- If you like big wines, try a Lodi Petite Syrah. Any good Cab under $20 probably blended in a bunch of PetS to give it some oomph.

Wineries like Bronco (maker of Charles Shaw) and McManis make bulk wine for most of their better-known competitors.

Good values there (McManis Petite is around $10 at BevMo or Total Wine).

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Agree with all of this. Can't find the source right now, but seem to recall some trivia where Miles was supposed to say "I'm not drinking any &$^#ing Cabernet Sauvignon!", but Merlot flowed off the tongue better, so they switched it. If so, would be crazy to think a small tweak in the script would make such a sea change in wine supply / demand.

My tastes might be cheap, but also enjoy folie a deux (some like menage a trois found in most costcos for $10), dancing bull zins, picket fence pinot, layer cake shiraz, and some other screw top with a clever name (red girl boom?), among others.

hehatenate;842509002 said:

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Agree with all of this. Can't find the source right now, but seem to recall some trivia where Miles was supposed to say "I'm not drinking any &$^#ing Cabernet Sauvignon!", but Merlot flowed off the tongue better, so they switched it. If so, would be crazy to think a small tweak in the script would make such a sea change in wine supply / demand.

My tastes might be cheap, but also enjoy folie a deux (some like menage a trois found in most costcos for $10), dancing bull zins, picket fence pinot, layer cake shiraz, and some other screw top with a clever name (red girl boom?), among others.

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Well, it was a book first. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I do recall that it was Merlot in the book, as well. If so, whatever you read was full of sh-t.

grandmastapoop;842509012 said:

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Well, it was a book first. It's been a long time since I read the book, but I do recall that it was Merlot in the book, as well. If so, whatever you read was full of sh-t.

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Many wine snobs never drink cheap California Merlot. Generally, it's the White Zinfandel of Reds.

NYCGOBEARS;842509015 said:

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Many wine snobs never drink cheap California Merlot. Generally, it's the White Zinfandel of Reds.

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The biggest knock on Merlot I can think of is that it is reputed to be the favorite red wine of House Speaker John Boehner. IMHO, Boehner is such a heavy smoker his throat is probably now heavily coated. I doubt he could tell the difference between Merlot and 10W40 motor oil.

NYCGOBEARS;842509015 said:

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Many wine snobs never drink cheap California Merlot. Generally, it's the White Zinfandel of Reds.

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Not sure that I agree.
- If you mean poorly informed wine 'snobs', then OK. Truly knowledgeable wine lovers know the role that Merlot plays in Bordeaux.
- If you mean cheap (<$6) Merlot, then OK. Wine snobs love finding $25 bargains, they seldom buy any wines for $5.
I used to make more than 300,000 cases of wine per year above $50 per bottle. I was pretty glued into the luxury wine business.

hehatenate;842509002 said:

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Agree with all of this. Can't find the source right now, but seem to recall some trivia where Miles was supposed to say "I'm not drinking any &$^#ing Cabernet Sauvignon!", but Merlot flowed off the tongue better, so they switched it. If so, would be crazy to think a small tweak in the script would make such a sea change in wine supply / demand.

My tastes might be cheap, but also enjoy folie a deux (some like menage a trois found in most costcos for $10), dancing bull zins, picket fence pinot, layer cake shiraz, and some other screw top with a clever name (red girl boom?), among others.

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We reviewed a lot of statistical analyses of wine trends. The shift away from Merlot was pronounced and long lived and occurred right when Sideways was in theaters. Had to change many long term vineyard and grape contracts as a result. Seemed incredible that the sea change was real. It was.

Manage a Trois is a sub-brand of Folie a Deux.

The key to enjoying wine is drinking what you like. Don't worry whether your taste is 'cheap' or not in line with critics. Why pay more for something that does not taste as good to you ?