True Detective: The latest plot twist in LA's quest for a NFL team

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wifeisafurd
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After a bitterly disappointing 90 minute finish to True Detective, here is another story with an overly complex and poorly presented plot, that may leave everyone disappointed and confused (let's have a plot about two completely powerless kids who by revenge, end up almost taking down a gigantic criminal conspiracy that runs what looks like the City of Vernon, and a project that looks like the Bullet Train, by never focusing on the kids and their actions for 8 episodes), from the LA Times:

The NFL is having a hard time lining up more than one temporary site in case two teams were to relocate to Los Angeles. The Coliseum is the only venue willing to house a team while a stadium was being built and has made it clear it wants one pro team.

While this is a headache for the league, it's not a game changer. Some might surmise that, because there's only one such vacancy, it has to mean the St. Louis Rams are the franchise that will be given the green light to move.

But as anyone who has followed this saga for 20 years knows, it's risky to apply logic to any of this process. Illogical twists and turns have been the defining characteristic of the L.A. story.

In June, the NFL sent requests for proposals to five area venues the Coliseum, Rose Bowl, StubHub Center, Angel Stadium and Dodger Stadium.


The Rose Bowl and StubHub Center declined to respond to the league. USC, which operates the Coliseum, has a contract that says the stadium can host only one NFL team, and it is willing to do so. The two ballparks have not given a definitive answer, publicly at least, but each has scheduling issues with the football/baseball overlap in August and September.

The league sees this more as an inconvenience than something that would dictate the outcome of who would eventually move. The tail in this case the availability of temporary venues will not wag the dog here.

It has caused the NFL to consider some unorthodox possibilities if two teams were to simultaneously relocate, such as the Raiders relocating but continuing to play their games in Oakland while a new stadium were being built in Carson, or playing in San Antonio, or perhaps spending a month in London until a baseball stadium were to become available.

All of this underscores a basic truth: The L.A. puzzle isn't checkers, it's three-dimensional chess.

There's another complicating aspect to this. Next week, NFL owners will meet in Chicago to discuss the L.A. situation and hear from backers of the competing Inglewood and Carson proposals, and from City of San Diego officials. For a lot of these owners, L.A. is not top of mind. They don't lose sleep about the "California dilemma," or follow each incremental development in the push to bring pro football back to the nation's second-largest market. They only pay attention to it when they get occasional updates at meetings.

These are the people who ultimately will decide if a team gets to move. A team needs at least 24 of 32 votes for approval. So the message those owners are receiving that L.A. won't jump through hoops to get an NFL team the way other cities might could color their decision and enthusiasm about the market.


NFL Executive Vice President Eric Grubman, who is overseeing the L.A. process, said he's not concerned about the current status of temporary venues, and that the situation will work itself out by the end of the year.

"If Eric does not have two viable options, then, yes, it will send a signal [to owners]," said Marc Ganis, a sports business consultant who has worked closely with the NFL for years. "But if Eric is able to devise two viable options, then it will just be considered part of the process.

"But if they have to contort too much, if they say, 'We've got to consider playing in Oakland or San Diego even though it's dead man walking,' those are the kind of considerations that would get people to say, 'Wait a minute, is there really a market in L.A.? Do they really want the NFL there?' It would just cause them to think about it."

Now, even with the snubs from the Rose Bowl and StubHub Center, the NFL is continuing to move forward.

For the time being, it's just another day in L.A.

Final note on the LA NFL saga: I have blue balls in my stomach (you need to have endured the second season of True Detective to understand this one of many idiotic dialogue gems perpetrated on poor Vince Vaughn).
SonOfCalVa
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wifeisafurd;842522708 said:

... While this is a headache for the league, it's not a game changer. Some might surmise that, because there's only one such vacancy, it has to mean the St. Louis Rams are the franchise that will be given the green light to move...


Los Angeles Rams ... something catchy about that, not sure why :p
510Bear
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Is anyone else getting really sick of this ongoing trainwreck of a story? It's not like there's much to be excited about the idea of a team (or two) in LA that will have more big-money corporate support than average fan support. And it's tiring to hear about the endless chess moves by TPTB to try to make this happen.

This all just makes me appreciate franchises like the Packers and Chiefs more.
Sebastabear
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Yeah, what was up with that True Detective finale? What a train wreck (pardon the pun). How did the Mexicans find Vince Vaughn? Where were Nails, the girl from Wedding Crashers and Vaughn's wife supposed to be going? Whose baby was that? What did any of this have to do with the bullet train? What happened to lady cop's dad? So many questions.
oski003
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510Bear;842522967 said:

Is anyone else getting really sick of this ongoing trainwreck of a story? It's not like there's much to be excited about the idea of a team (or two) in LA that will have more big-money corporate support than average fan support. And it's tiring to hear about the endless chess moves by TPTB to try to make this happen.

This all just makes me appreciate franchises like the Packers and Chiefs more.


Translation: I hate L.A.
wifeisafurd
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Sebastabear;842522968 said:

Yeah, what was up with that True Detective finale? What a train wreck (pardon the pun). How did the Mexicans find Vince Vaughn? Where were Nails, the girl from Wedding Crashers and Vaughn's wife supposed to be going? Whose baby was that? What did any of this have to do with the bullet train? What happened to lady cop's dad? So many questions.


Let me add some other holes in the plot.

First Episode: Paul gets a call, is late and goes speeding out in his motorcycle madly rushing to discover Caspere's body. Turns out Paul is working with the Vinci police, who he got the call from.. Problem is they didn't kill Caspere, it was the some guy wearing a bird head, who by the way we saw wearing the head in the car as we watch Caspere sitting in the car on the way to having his body dumped where Paul found it. This of course only become apparent in the finale, where we expect the bird guy to be the Vinci Leutenant and instead its some guy we saw for 10 second in Episode 3. So how did Paul get the call about the body?

Later, Paul is able to use the Los Angeles library computer to download critical information on the robbery, including LAPD criminal and employee records to track down the robbery. I guess the library hacked the LAPD's secured files. But its good that Paul did at print that out, and is seen getting maybe an inch worth of contracts during the orgy, because the only other physical evidence that we were shown ever being obtained is when Ani got the tape from the killer's sister, So when Ray tells Ami to be sure to take all the evidence is kinda funny because there hardly is any. Oh wait a minute, bird head boy was gathering evidence that Ray now has. Only one little problem, Ray never gets that evidence to Ani. OOOPs! Nevertheless, at the end of the finale, Ani is seen handing over mounds of paper on the bed, etc. to the reporter. Where did all this evidence come from? What makes it even more ironic is Ani gets on the boat with this little suitcase so we know she couldn't have brought all that evidence with her. So where did all this freaking physical evidence come from?

And Ray says he can lose anyone, so does he go to a public place and escape into a crowd or something you would expect. Oh no he goes into the a freaking forest where he can't escape anyone, and does a poor imitation of High Sierra.

Oh, and let's have the mastermind behind all the corruption be some 20 year old whose sole role in the eight episodes is two minutes parading around in a speedo, and throwing a hooker off a balcony. And while your at it, let's use the finale to introduce Frank's dad, some unknown black gang (or whatever they were supposed to represent) and then perhaps inadvertently mock the absurd monologues and strange dictionary poor Vince Vaughn had to recite, when Jordan suddenly appears to announce "you can't act..." before telling Frank his body is 50 yards back. Wife and I were so busy laughing at the you can't act line we missed the line about his body having already fallen. Wife also wanted to know if Jordan relocated her ring back at the train station. Women...

I feel like I need to hire a True Detective to figure out why 8 of the 8.5 hours of this season were spent on nothing that really added to the plot, endless names that confused, and red herrings. Okay blue herrings and blue balls, since this is a Cal site.
Big C
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Sebastabear;842522968 said:

Yeah, what was up with that True Detective finale? What a train wreck (pardon the pun). How did the Mexicans find Vince Vaughn? Where were Nails, the girl from Wedding Crashers and Vaughn's wife supposed to be going? Whose baby was that? What did any of this have to do with the bullet train? What happened to lady cop's dad? So many questions.


The next-to-last episode was the only one I really liked this year. Last night's season finale: On a par with the other episodes this season... held my interest, but disappointing.

They were all supposed to meet up in Venezuela, but Frank and Ray didn't make it. The baby was Ray and Ani's, from their one coupling. That was the good news: His second son would hear about the best side of him. The lady cop's Dad ended up meeting Don Draper and creating the famous Coke ad (okay, I might be confused about that last part).

As to the bullet train, that was the weakest part of the season: The villains were way too fragmented. You had the corrupt city officials, their offshoot, the diamond heist guys, the revenge-of-the-victims-of-the-diamond-heist-guys, the Russian mobster, the Armenians, the corporate mobster, the Mexicans, some sort of Bohemian-Grove-gone-amok overall conspiracy... throw in Rick Springfield and a bird mask here and there and wow, just wow. Not to mention some of the dialog.
sycasey
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You know how on a DVD sometimes they have extra "deleted scenes" for you to watch, and if you like the movie at first you're excited to watch them, because hey, it's more stuff from that movie I liked! Then you watch those scenes and it quickly becomes obvious why they were deleted. Not even because they're all bad, but because they are redundant. They don't add anything to the plot.

True Detective Season 2 feels like all of the "deleted scenes" are still in there. Pizzolatto needed an editor. The story is all over the place and feels pointless, because he's spending too much time keeping all the balls in the air and not enough time actually building the narrative towards a conclusion we care about. Season 1 worked a lot better because we just had two cops and one villain they were chasing, and moreover, the story was just way tighter. You knew why those guys were going to this place or questioning that guy; I can't say that about this season.
wifeisafurd
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510Bear;842522967 said:

Is anyone else getting really sick of this ongoing trainwreck of a story? It's not like there's much to be excited about the idea of a team (or two) in LA that will have more big-money corporate support than average fan support. And it's tiring to hear about the endless chess moves by TPTB to try to make this happen.

This all just makes me appreciate franchises like the Packers and Chiefs more.


I hear the story will all be explained in the finale next week following the NFL meetings. Really...
510Bear
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wifeisafurd;842523003 said:

I hear the story will all be explained in the finale next week following the NFL meetings. Really...


Right. But a season finale, not a series finale....

This whole thing is kind of like what would have happened if "Lost" were allowed to go on for 21 seasons.
CAL6371
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Agreed - this season had an interesting topic but the confusing mishmash of characters and extraneous junk made it a second rate series. Corruption in a small industrial city in LA - who would have thunk it? I knew the real chief of police there when he was in Ventura County (in the Ventura PD and Chief at Simi Valley) - no one here was shocked at his behavior there.
Great opening song for the series, but the rest was poor imo.
ColoradoBear
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To break from the spoilers,

It would make sense for the NFL to let the Rams move now and Kroeke build his stadium under the condition he will accept another one in the future (and have some terms agreed upon regarding the 2nd team's relocation fee, mechanics, what kind of splits go to the NFL versus the rams, etc). He actually has the $$ to get it done (and if he's bluffing, it would be know pretty fast, so then the market would open up to other teams who may be more serious). The various two team deals seem like way to many moving parts, especially when it's the raiders and chargers... both teams really don't have ownership groups that have much cash backing outside their own team.

The fact that the NFL keeps delaying this decision, but in small increments, clearly indicates the teams (mostly StL?) via the NFL are trying to extort more public $$$ from their current cities. A game of chicken, but is the money there outside of LA? Oakland seems like it's in the position least willing to put up $$$ (Alameda County wants out of the complex, the city is broke, and the city seems to know a small baseball stadium with 10x as many home dates would be a better thing to invest in.... plus fisher/wolff absolutely have the $$$ to create a ballpark village on their own, but won't do it if other entities are involved)...... but how dire is the situation in StL or SD? The funny thing about the Rams lease is how stupid the city was in writing it. StL is CLEARLY not a top tier NFL team/city, so the requirement that the stadium kept in the top tier through improvements is laughable.

Also, if there is no suitable temp location in LA, send a team off to London for a year or two.
wifeisafurd
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510Bear;842523027 said:

Right. But a season finale, not a series finale....

This whole thing is kind of like what would have happened if "Lost" were allowed to go on for 21 seasons.


Great last line.
hehatenate
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sycasey;842523002 said:

You know how on a DVD sometimes they have extra "deleted scenes" for you to watch, and if you like the movie at first you're excited to watch them, because hey, it's more stuff from that movie I liked! Then you watch those scenes and it quickly becomes obvious why they were deleted. Not even because they're all bad, but because they are redundant. They don't add anything to the plot.

True Detective Season 2 feels like all of the "deleted scenes" are still in there. Pizzolatto needed an editor. The story is all over the place and feels pointless, because he's spending too much time keeping all the balls in the air and not enough time actually building the narrative towards a conclusion we care about. Season 1 worked a lot better because we just had two cops and one villain they were chasing, and moreover, the story was just way tighter. You knew why those guys were going to this place or questioning that guy; I can't say that about this season.


I wish Burris would've saved one last bullet...for me. There's 8 hours of my life I'll never get back.

Seriously, agree with the deleted scenes part; they need to get that director from Season 1 and pay him his money. Reminds me of the '93 NFL season when Emmitt Smith held out and they started 0-2: yes you are worse without him, pay the man (they went on to win the SB).
sycasey
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hehatenate;842523103 said:

I wish Burris would've saved one last bullet...for me. There's 8 hours of my life I'll never get back.

Seriously, agree with the deleted scenes part; they need to get that director from Season 1 and pay him his money. Reminds me of the '93 NFL season when Emmitt Smith held out and they started 0-2: yes you are worse without him, pay the man (they went on to win the SB).


Yeah, I suspect that the director from Season 1 (Cary Fukunaga) did a lot to help shape the story into something more coherent. The other problem is that Pizzolatto spent years writing that first season, and meanwhile this one was churned out in less than a year. He clearly needed more time to edit, but either the network demanded it or it was hubris on the writer's part, thinking he could make it work even with a shorter turnaround. Not so much.
NYCGOBEARS
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So are you guys saying that I should forget about watching this season?
sycasey
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NYCGOBEARS;842523121 said:

So are you guys saying that I should forget about watching this season?


Lower your expectations.
FiatSlug
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ColoradoBear1;842523095 said:

To break from the spoilers,

It would make sense for the NFL to let the Rams move now and Kroeke build his stadium under the condition he will accept another one in the future (and have some terms agreed upon regarding the 2nd team's relocation fee, mechanics, what kind of splits go to the NFL versus the rams, etc). He actually has the $$ to get it done (and if he's bluffing, it would be know pretty fast, so then the market would open up to other teams who may be more serious). The various two team deals seem like way to many moving parts, especially when it's the raiders and chargers... both teams really don't have ownership groups that have much cash backing outside their own team.

The fact that the NFL keeps delaying this decision, but in small increments, clearly indicates the teams (mostly StL?) via the NFL are trying to extort more public $$$ from their current cities. A game of chicken, but is the money there outside of LA? Oakland seems like it's in the position least willing to put up $$$ (Alameda County wants out of the complex, the city is broke, and the city seems to know a small baseball stadium with 10x as many home dates would be a better thing to invest in.... plus fisher/wolff absolutely have the $$$ to create a ballpark village on their own, but won't do it if other entities are involved)...... but how dire is the situation in StL or SD? The funny thing about the Rams lease is how stupid the city was in writing it. StL is CLEARLY not a top tier NFL team/city, so the requirement that the stadium kept in the top tier through improvements is laughable.

Also, if there is no suitable temp location in LA, send a team off to London for a year or two.


That the NFL is using LA to extort stadium concessions for franchises in other cities is a given. What would make the most sense for those other cities is not to play ball: tell the NFL to put up or shut up. Until current NFL cities get enough gumption to tell the NFL, "You're not worth it." they will continue to be played like a violin as long as LA does not have an NFL franchise.

If St. Louis had this kind of gumption, they'd let the Rams go and never look back. The Cardinals are committed to St. Louis. Why should St. Louis throw money away on a NFL franchise that plays 10 home dates a year when they could use that same money on (1) public safety, (2) public education, and (3) infrastructure rehabilitation and improvements (in short, things essential to a thriving economy)?

In the same vein, Oakland should tell the Raiders to move (to LA or anywhere else for that matter) or shut up.
bearister
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True Detective, Season 2 = Style over Substance
bearister
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NYCGOBEARS;842523121 said:

So are you guys saying that I should forget about watching this season?


No, it is still better than most movies and TV shows (which is setting the bar pretty low). Don't be tired when you watch it. There are a few first class action sequences in it. I saw this movie the other night and liked it (the hot robot from Ex Machina is in it):

wifeisafurd
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NYCGOBEARS;842523121 said:

So are you guys saying that I should forget about watching this season?


Its like being the sober, married guy at a strip club with hot women. Very frustrating, particularly after season 1. Your a Cal fan, so you might like frustration.
Sebastabear
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The Daily Beast had an entertaining article saying (in essence) that this seasons True Detective was so bad and over the top that it would eventually be a cult classic. Here's the concluding paragraph:

Quote:

Whether by design or not, Pizzolatto has created a tremendously entertaining, campy neo-noir that will, years from now, be celebrated as a cult favorite. Where else can you see Tim Riggins play a closeted gay biker cop who pops Viagra to sex women, the chatterbox from Swingers ripping out a 400-pound pimp’s gold grill with pliers, Regina George slicing-and-dicing an orgy security guard, or Colin Farrell threatening to butt-**** a small child’s father on his family’s front lawn with his mom’s headless corpse?


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/10/true-detective-season-2-s-fatal-finale-why-nic-pizzolatto-s-show-will-be-a-cult-classic.html
Bear8
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I tried to watch it, but I'm having trouble seeing Vince Vaughn as a tough guy. He's a comedian or at least a light hearted guy in most movies. Too radical a change for me.

Stan Kroenke (?) has the reputation as a non-bullshitter. When he decides to move nothing is allowed to stand in his way. The best example is buying 60 acres of land where Hollywood Park used to stand and already breaking ground at the site. My money is on him. Frankly, I don't want the Raiders. Too many bad memories at the Coliseum. The Chargers are terrified that their hold on Orange County would be lost if LA gets a team. Their geographic pull would be substantially reduced. However, I would accept the Chargers, the NFL version of the Clippers, as a second team in SoCal.
NYCGOBEARS
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wifeisafurd;842523179 said:

Its like being the sober, married guy at a strip club with hot women. Very frustrating, particularly after season 1. Your a Cal fan, so you might like frustration.


Damn wife, way to kill whatever small of amount of enthusiasm I had left for watching the show. :p
wifeisafurd
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NYCGOBEARS;842523308 said:

Damn wife, way to kill whatever small of amount of enthusiasm I had left for watching the show. :p


Or you could spend those saved 8.5 hours on BI....
NYCGOBEARS
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wifeisafurd;842523452 said:

Or you could spend those saved 8.5 hours on BI....


Oh yeah, calbear80 and hanky1 have got me so enthused.
GMP
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NYCGOBEARS;842523467 said:

Oh yeah, calbear80 and hanky1 have got me so enthused.


I think Season 2 was not as bad as people are saying, and that Season 1 is not as good as people think/thought/remember.
sycasey
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grandmastapoop;842523469 said:

I think Season 2 was not as bad as people are saying, and that Season 1 is not as good as people think/thought/remember.


Probably true (depending on who you are talking to) but Season 2 is still a big step down.
okaydo
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sycasey;842523002 said:


True Detective Season 2 feels like all of the "deleted scenes" are still in there. Pizzolatto needed an editor. The story is all over the place and feels pointless, because he's spending too much time keeping all the balls in the air and not enough time actually building the narrative towards a conclusion we care about. Season 1 worked a lot better because we just had two cops and one villain they were chasing, and moreover, the story was just way tighter. You knew why those guys were going to this place or questioning that guy; I can't say that about this season.


Time magazine's TV critic, who was hired on Monday as the New York Times' chief TV critic, had an interesting article on auteur theory and why Pizzolatto shouldn't have done it alone.

http://time.com/3990805/true-detective-finale-louie-tv-auteurs/

To add to that article, great shows like The Wire, Breaking Bad and even The Sopranos -- which all have 1 guy at the creative force -- also had dynamic writer's rooms. The Wire had a former detective and some famous crime writers on its writing staff. The Sopranos had the creator of Mad Men and the creator of Boardwalk Empire on its staff, and Breaking Bad, if you listened to the podcasts, would be nothing without the debates set off in its writers room.


Vox, meanwhile, says:

Quote:

Essentially every flaw of the season stems from this one point. The central story of three very different police officers investigating the death of a corrupt city manager turned out to have enough story in it to fill maybe two or three hours. To compensate for this, Pizzolatto kept tossing more and more things into the season's story.


http://www.vox.com/2015/8/10/9125723/true-detective-finale-recap-season-2
jaccpot10
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grandmastapoop;842523469 said:

I think Season 2 was not as bad as people are saying, and that Season 1 is not as good as people think/thought/remember.


Agreed. I like Season 2, and I thought the season finale was pretty good and realistic in terms of the bad guys mostly "winning." The Season 2 finale was much better than the trite Hollywood ending of Season 1 when Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey suddenly made up after years of hating each other, and prevailed triumphantly over the bad guy, surviving bullets and punches.

Season 1, especially its ending, wasn't THAT good.
sycasey
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jaccpot10;842523588 said:

Agreed. I like Season 2, and I thought the season finale was pretty good and realistic in terms of the bad guys mostly "winning." The Season 2 finale was much better than the trite Hollywood ending of Season 1 when Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey suddenly made up after years of hating each other, and prevailed triumphantly over the bad guy, surviving bullets and punches.

Season 1, especially its ending, wasn't THAT good.


I'm not one of those who hated the ending to the first season. I get why people expected something more nihilistic, but an ending of cautious optimism I think is decently supported by the material as well.

The issue with Season 2 is not so much the ending but how much less entertaining the road to that ending was. The ending lacked punch because they didn't make the audience care as much.
okaydo
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sycasey;842523711 said:

I'm not one of those who hated the ending to the first season. I get why people expected something more nihilistic, but an ending of cautious optimism I think is decently supported by the material as well.


I think part of the blame with Season 1 being disappointing is the Internet world we live in, where every potential clue has to be examined and people come up with wild conspiracy theories -- when Pizzolatto kept insisting throughout Season 1 that there was no massive mystery. (Of course, he's partly to blame.) The conspiracy theorists tried to do the same with Mad Men and trying to link it to the Manson murders.
Vandalus
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sycasey;842523711 said:

I'm not one of those who hated the ending to the first season. I get why people expected something more nihilistic, but an ending of cautious optimism I think is decently supported by the material as well.

The issue with Season 2 is not so much the ending but how much less entertaining the road to that ending was. The ending lacked punch because they didn't make the audience care as much.


Maybe I'm a sucker, but I thought the ending had a lot of suspense to it. I felt bad for all of them in the end. I liked the Frank part the most even though it was the most gut wrenching to watch (pun!). I liked the visions that he had, especially the last which had a subtle play/nod to the final plot twist in Vertigo.

As much of a bummer as it was, I appreciated that he didn't try to wrap up such a dark story with a happy ending, like so many other Hollywood endings try (and fail) to do. I didn't think the season was as entertaining as the first, but I still looked forward to watching the show and don't feel cheated out of the 8.5 hours that I spent on it.
sycasey
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Vandalus;842523736 said:

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I thought the ending had a lot of suspense to it. I felt bad for all of them in the end. I liked the Frank part the most even though it was the most gut wrenching to watch (pun!). I liked the visions that he had, especially the last which had a subtle play/nod to the final plot twist in Vertigo.


I think the Season 2 ending would have worked if the rest of the season leading up to it had been better. Well, most of it anyway (not sure about the last tag of Ani and Jordan somehow meeting up and also having a baby with them). But by the end I didn't care enough about Ray and Frank to feel much during their final scenes. That's more a failure of the previous 8 hours than of these scenes themselves.
Sebastabear
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Vandalus;842523736 said:

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I thought the ending had a lot of suspense to it. I felt bad for all of them in the end. I liked the Frank part the most even though it was the most gut wrenching to watch (pun!). I liked the visions that he had, especially the last which had a subtle play/nod to the final plot twist in Vertigo.

As much of a bummer as it was, I appreciated that he didn't try to wrap up such a dark story with a happy ending, like so many other Hollywood endings try (and fail) to do. I didn't think the season was as entertaining as the first, but I still looked forward to watching the show and don't feel cheated out of the 8.5 hours that I spent on it.


Candidly I thought the plot in Season 2 was a mess but I did kind of enjoy it overall. Watching Vaughn try to find his way in the role was fun (he was much better at the end than at the beginning where his performance was utterly cringe worthy). Also some of the scenes were so over the top that you had to appreciate the audacity if nothing else. And while Season 1 was beautifully acted by the two leads, I just can't get into anything that takes place in a swamp. LA provides a lot more interest for me. But am I glad I watched it? Pickings are pretty slim in August so I guess I'd say yes.
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