both have 2 lb's and 5 db's no ?

im just curious

Good question. I think it is accurate to say our base defense is a 4-2-5 now. Our recruiting seems to reflect that as well.

dajo9;842529797 said:

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Good question. I think it is accurate to say our base defense is a 4-2-5 now. Our recruiting seems to reflect that as well.

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I know there is a ton of passing in the P12, so nickle makes sense, but it's tough when there's some pretty good depth at LB.

in the 4-2-5 the 2 on the outside must be able to hold an edge and cover. When I use to coach, our outside guys we called spurs...they had to be proficient in jamming receivers on the line as well as dropping into their zones(. Typically you still had a strong side/weak side spur..one was a bit quicker one was a bit stronger. Usually they can be built like safeties...Strong Safety/Free Safety builds.

Normally, when a base 4-3 or 3-4 team goes nickel, they do it situationally on passing downs. The nickel back is brought in primarily as a pass defender, and usually to cover a specific kind of WR: the guy in the slot. Nickel backs are often fast-twitch kind of guys, and can be a little smaller than starting CB's, who have to play on the outside and press against/run with larger split ends. Because their use is mostly situational, they'll play in a limited set of coverages, and will be operating out of a limited number of fronts with few run responsibilities.

Base 4-2-5 teams developed to combat the spread in all of its forms, are designed to be an every-down defense, and have more diversity in their playbook than a typical nickel package would. Nickle backs in these defenses often have important responsibilities vs. the spread run game, and can be more in the safety mold, or even safety/OLB tweeners. They might be asked to fold into the B-gap against the run, to blitz off the edge, or to drop into coverage. In base 4-2-5 defenses the nickel back is almost a unique position in its own right.

Edit-MinotStateBeav's description is great for 4-2-5's that play with 8-man front principals, where you're really almost looking at a fast version of the 4-4 (4 DL, 2 LB's, 2 spurs). My description is more oriented toward teams that play with split safety coverages, where you have a more traditional starting 4 in your secondary + a Shaq Thompson/Sua Cravens-style nickel back taking the schematic place of one of your OLB's.

LACalFan;842529805 said:

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I know there is a ton of passing in the P12, so nickle makes sense, but it's tough when there's some pretty good depth at LB.

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there will be packages for them all .. we will stay fresh in games and late in the season .. as well as being able manage/ handle a dinged up guy or two ... without significant drop off ?

thx for info

MinotStateBeav;842529811 said:

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in the 4-2-5 the 2 on the outside must be able to hold an edge and cover. When I use to coach, our outside guys we called spurs...they had to be proficient in jamming receivers on the line as well as dropping into their zones(. Typically you still had a strong side/weak side spur..one was a bit quicker one was a bit stronger. Usually they can be built like safeties...Strong Safety/Free Safety builds.

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This would make sense because both our LB recruits seem to have safety builds. We had no LB recruits last year.

For those interested in learning more about the 4-2-5, I would suggest googling "Bud Foster defense". Va tech runs one of most well know 4-2-5 schemes in CFB.

Both of you guys nailed it! Nice to see real knowledge on here.

berk18;842529814 said:

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Normally, when a base 4-3 or 3-4 team goes nickel, they do it situationally on passing downs. The nickel back is brought in primarily as a pass defender, and usually to cover a specific kind of WR: the guy in the slot. Nickel backs are often fast-twitch kind of guys, and can be a little smaller than starting CB's, who have to play on the outside and press against/run with larger split ends. Because their use is mostly situational, they'll play in a limited set of coverages, and will be operating out of a limited number of fronts with few run responsibilities.

Base 4-2-5 teams developed to combat the spread in all of its forms, are designed to be an every-down defense, and have more diversity in their playbook than a typical nickel package would. Nickle backs in these defenses often have important responsibilities vs. the spread run game, and can be more in the safety mold, or even safety/OLB tweeners. They might be asked to fold into the B-gap against the run, to blitz off the edge, or to drop into coverage. In base 4-2-5 defenses the nickel back is almost a unique position in its own right.

Edit-MinotStateBeav's description is great for 4-2-5's that play with 8-man front principals, where you're really almost looking at a fast version of the 4-4 (4 DL, 2 LB's, 2 spurs). My description is more oriented toward teams that play with split safety coverages, where you have a more traditional starting 4 in your secondary + a Shaq Thompson/Sua Cravens-style nickel back taking the schematic place of one of your OLB's.

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did not know va tech ran 4-2-5 ...

going4roses;842529858 said:

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did not know va tech ran 4-2-5 ...

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TCU, too.

alarsuel;842529967 said:

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TCU, too.

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i was aware of gary running it ...though not va tech

going4roses;842529972 said:

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i was aware of gary running it ...though not va tech

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VT moved away from their 4-4/eight man front to a 4-3 defense with the rise of the spread offense. You can only play a limited amount of coverages with three players in your secondary (Cover 1, Cover 3, Cover 2 Robber). They turned the "Rover" into a full time defensive back, giving them a fourth player in the secondary and the ability to play Cover 4 ("quarters") and variations of Cover 4.

For more information read this article: http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2011/9/28/2454131/inside-the-virginia-tech-defense

Totally different. Nickel is a personnel package, 425 is a scheme. Nickel can be as simple as a defensive back replacing a linebacker in passing downs (often it is that simple). 425 is different, as noted above, you have spur players (kind of safety/olb hybrids) and often split field coverages. Just a totally different defense. There are some really good articles on TCU - you can also find some play books. They are very well known in the coaching community for this type of defense.

If you want to read up on the 425:
http://coachhoover.blogspot.dk/2011/12/4-2-5.html?m=1

great

lots of stuff to read and learn

my god that coach hoover link is IN depth

great stuff

http://grantland.com/features/hard-knocks-playing-defense-with-tcus-gary-patterson/

Found this for you too g4r

[video=youtube;GBfof91dB1A][/video]

Of note, Bud Foster's 4-2-5 was converted into a bear defense on 54 of 74 total snaps against the Buckeyes, and in doing so held them to a season-low 108 yards on the ground and causing three interceptions. Here's a pretty detailed (fan) breakdown of Vtech's bear defense.

http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2015/09/10081/depth-analysis-hokies-bear-defense

edit - should have added, their version of the bear had cover zero on the back-end. Very high risk, high reward, but was designed to stop the run, and if you play your keys correctly as a DB in man defense, you should never (theoretically) get beat on play action.

wow more visuals demo drills ...

thx vand