Goff has very good size, but plenty of guys have that.

Goff has good accuracy, but there are other guys that can match him.

Goff has a good enough arm, but not plus arm at the next level

Goff's release is extremely quick - top of the range. Goff won't take a sack. However, there have been others with quick releases (Fouts and Marino come to mind) that were very hard to sack, but you could still rush them and reduce their effectiveness.

Goff's differentiator is his ability to read defenses generally, but much more specifically his ability to read blitzes and capitalize. There is really no point in blitzing Goff. Rush your four, try to get in his face and cut off the passing lanes, but blitzing is just an invitation. This is huge at the next level. Tom Brady has made a career out of this skill. I would never blitz Goff except possibly on a delayed action. As in, after 3 seconds, your coverage has held and now the receivers need to improvise. IMO, this is what is getting him the attention from the scouts.

No its his arm. Not every starter in the NFL can make the same throws.

We knew this from day 1, before he improved his defense reading

Dbearson;842552436 said:

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No its his arm. Not every starter in the NFL can make the same throws.

We knew this from day 1, before he improved his defense reading

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Sorry, disagree. Not every starter can make the same throws because there are a lot of starters that suck. Rodgers' combination of power and accuracy was/is significantly greater and there are at least 15 guys in the ballpark. The 1.8 second reads are insane and there is almost nobody else that can do it. His arm gives him an opportunity, but it would not be enough if that was all he was bringing to the table.

your flat out wrong

Sorry OTB but I think that's this offense not Goff. Colby Cameron did it at La Tech (10 sacks in 500+ attempts) and even Chase releases the ball quickly. They showed a stat on TV at some point (can't remember when, but it was maybe 2nd half at SDSU) about fastest average snap to throw times in the Pac-12 thus far this year and Goff was at the top at 1.8 seconds with Chase not far behind.

Goff won't take a sack? No point in blitzing him? Come on. He's good but not that good. No one is.

Unit2Sucks;842552453 said:

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Sorry OTB but I think that's this offense not Goff. Colby Cameron did it at La Tech (10 sacks in 500+ attempts) and even Chase releases the ball quickly. They showed a stat on TV at some point (can't remember when, but it was maybe 2nd half at SDSU) about fastest average snap to throw times in the Pac-12 thus far this year and Goff was at the top at 1.8 seconds with Chase not far behind.

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or maybe its because theyre all coached by the same guys too, teaching them the same fundamentals. fwiw, i think dykes and franklin are very good with teaching qbs. Goff is very well coached. his footwork is very advanced and in my opinion resembles more of a seasoned NFL vet, not a 3rd year college qb. i believe that this is what allows him to get the ball out so quickly.

Dbearson;842552436 said:

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No its his arm. Not every starter in the NFL can make the same throws.

We knew this from day 1, before he improved his defense reading

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I see an "average" NFL arm, in terms of strength/zip and an "above average" arm in terms of touch/accuracy. Combine this with his reads, fearlessness, pretty good size and decent mobility and you have a "top NFL prospect". His strength as a QB prospect might be that he doesn't have any glaring question marks.

Dbearson;842552452 said:

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your flat out wrong

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Then there are some people much more knowledgeable than I am and I assume also than you are that are flat out wrong also.

Nice to be so certain in your opinions that there is no allowance for the fact that somebody might have a different view without being flat out wrong. Given the fact that I was giving our quarterback a compliment for having a very unusual skill, I would think that expressing your view to the contrary without being a jerk about it might be something that someone who is over 5 years old and not on a Miller Lite commercial might be able to handle.

goff has a combo of making reads (blitzing muy malo with him) and a VERY quick release (true differentiating factor). He can make all the throws and he's pretty accurate even on the move, but he doesn't have the strongest arm (this is a VERY high bar there are some CANNON arms in the NFL--doesn't make for the best QB necessarily).

the thing is from the time he decides to throw to throwing is REALLY fast. Now the offensive system helps because it helps his decision making, but he still needs to make a decision. What changes as you get further along is your decision on who to throw to and when changes. Sure Forrest gets rid of it quick too, but I would bet he isn't making the same level of progression Goff is and his release takes longer

The quick read is pretty much the nature of these spread attacks. I suspect NFL defenses are a bit more difficult to read than those he's facing at this level and the athleticism of the DBs much greater. IMO, decision making and accuracy are both more critical than arm strength although there is a threshold level of arm strength necessary (otherwise, Kellen Moore is an NFL starter).

GranadaHillsBear;842552454 said:

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Goff won't take a sack? No point in blitzing him? Come on. He's good but not that good. No one is.

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I don't mean that he will literally never take a sack. I mean that blitzing him is a really bad strategy. There is no point in doing it because it makes him more effective. Blitzing is a big neon sign to Goff saying "throw it here!". I'm pretty sure that you would find his completion percentage is higher when blitzed than when not. I think that is probably what Moraga meant when he responded to the SDSU poster saying he hoped SDSU would blitz. Blitzing is a risk-reward situation, and it does not come out in favor of the defense.

I had heard this from a number of people about Goff and it hit home this morning how useful it is when I saw a stat that so far this season, Luck is passing in the forty percents when blitzed, vs. Brady who is passing in the eighty percents. Think of what that does for your offense.

there is definitely a combo of accuracy/arm strength with accuracy being more important, below which it ain't gonna work.

but what differentiates the Peyton's and Brady's vs the 16 bottom half guys is mostly between the ears. And it isn't so much who's smart/dumb it's more who's got "it". Which of course is the problem cause ain't no surefire way to identify "it". Cept it was pretty damn obvious Rogers had "it". Goff MIGHT (love him but c'mon you just never know). Mariotta is a lot closer to having "it" than Jameis IMO. Jameis I don't think has "it" at all. He's actually impresses me in that for a guy who's pretty damn athletically awkward (watch him run) he's gone A LONG way. I just don't think he's gonna pan out. What little I've seen of Hackenberg convinces me he doesn't have "it". cook I think has back up written all over him (hey THAT's a GREAT GIG). The tOSU guys haven't looked good this year.

Unit2Sucks;842552453 said:

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Sorry OTB but I think that's this offense not Goff. Colby Cameron did it at La Tech (10 sacks in 500+ attempts) and even Chase releases the ball quickly. They showed a stat on TV at some point (can't remember when, but it was maybe 2nd half at SDSU) about fastest average snap to throw times in the Pac-12 thus far this year and Goff was at the top at 1.8 seconds with Chase not far behind.

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The stat is the offense. Many offenses don't want you getting rid of it that fast because it doesn't give enough time for the play they are running to develop. Yes, if Goff were in a different offense, he would not be throwing at 1.8 seconds. And I agree that the offense emphasizes reading blitzes. But I think Goff is special at doing it regardless of offense. I could certainly be wrong and maybe the offense is making that particular skill look better than it is, in which case, I honestly don't think Goff will succeed as much as we think at the next level.

moonpod;842552470 said:

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goff has a combo of making reads (blitzing muy malo with him) and a VERY quick release (true differentiating factor). He can make all the throws and he's pretty accurate even on the move, but he doesn't have the strongest arm (this is a VERY high bar there are some CANNON arms in the NFL--doesn't make for the best QB necessarily).

the thing is from the time he decides to throw to throwing is REALLY fast. Now the offensive system helps because it helps his decision making, but he still needs to make a decision. What changes as you get further along is your decision on who to throw to and when changes. Sure Forrest gets rid of it quick too, but I would bet he isn't making the same level of progression Goff is and his release takes longer

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this is how I see it as well.

What I've seen is that our receivers and goff this year are on the same page in a way that we haven't seen until this year. For every time I've seen a blitz, we have a WR making the correct route adjustment to break it off into the vacated zone and goff throws that way almost immediately. If the Wr and the QB aren't on the same page, that's an incompletion or worse.

What sets him apart is the look in his eyes.

OaktownBear;842552431 said:

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Goff has very good size, but plenty of guys have that.

Goff has good accuracy, but there are other guys that can match him.

Goff has a good enough arm, but not plus arm at the next level

Goff's release is extremely quick - top of the range. Goff won't take a sack. However, there have been others with quick releases (Fouts and Marino come to mind) that were very hard to sack, but you could still rush them and reduce their effectiveness.

Goff's differentiator is his ability to read defenses generally, but much more specifically his ability to read blitzes and capitalize. There is really no point in blitzing Goff. Rush your four, try to get in his face and cut off the passing lanes, but blitzing is just an invitation. This is huge at the next level. Tom Brady has made a career out of this skill. I would never blitz Goff except possibly on a delayed action. As in, after 3 seconds, your coverage has held and now the receivers need to improvise. IMO, this is what is getting him the attention from the scouts.

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I agree with everything you've said here, but I'd also add another thing - upside. His accuracy is very good now and it's improved significantly from 2013-now. So he'd be entering the NFL with average accuracy and a good chance he'll improve on that.

His arm strength is average NFL. This was his weakness coming in and he's improved a lot in this area. He starts off okay but with all kinds of upside here.

His evasiveness shouldn't be underestimated. NFL teams crave QBs who can buy time in the pocket instead of running away at the first sign of pressure.

Football intelligence, as you alluded to, is a huge differentiator. That can make an average QB (like Brady) into a extraordinary QB. And it points to a QB who will be able to make that leap to the next level in terms of team leadership and understanding the playbook. This, plus Goff's ability to improve year over year, is why I just can't see him staying another year. Hope I'm wrong.

Go Bears!!

I think you and I may actually agree but I would phrase it more like moonpod has. I think Goff is elite at his pocket feel/poise this year. He glides around the pocket with chaos all around him and manages to make the perfect pass where others would be throwing it away, scrambling or even worse throwing it up for grabs. Goff is able to take say the worst 20% of dropbacks and make them look like normal passing attempts. To me that's his special skill. Sonny/Tony will always have a guy who can get rid of the ball quickly, that's the offense. What they won't always have is a guy who figures out a way to turn a play where the DL blew up the OL into something that looks like we're playing 7 on 7. Jared has already done it a bunch of times this year and he's not done.

OaktownBear;842552483 said:

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The stat is the offense. Many offenses don't want you getting rid of it that fast because it doesn't give enough time for the play they are running to develop. Yes, if Goff were in a different offense, he would not be throwing at 1.8 seconds. And I agree that the offense emphasizes reading blitzes. But I think Goff is special at doing it regardless of offense. I could certainly be wrong and maybe the offense is making that particular skill look better than it is, in which case, I honestly don't think Goff will succeed as much as we think at the next level.

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The answer is:

E) All of the above.

Nasal Mucus Goldenbear;842552508 said:

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What sets him apart is the look in his eyes.

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The ability to read defensive substitutions and fake injuries.

As you can see by this thread, Goff has lots of strengths!

One note about arm strength. We should be talking about game situation arm strength. Goff fires bullets when it's needed and he drives the ball downfield 40 yards or so with incredible ease. It's definitely a plus not a negative. There's no throw in the NFL playbook that he can't make consistently.

I will just add another, he's also special because of the combination of his arm talent, quick release, and the way he sees the field. His throws are described as "beautiful" because of this gift. He throws into tight windows with perfectly placed balls down the field.

His weakness? Ball security. It's easier for teams to rush him and make him fumble than it is to intercept him. He needs to get stronger for the next level.

Just saw this thread... Whether we like to acknowledge it or not, the System is a factor at some level, as with the decision-making, as has been discussed. Some might see that as a rather big factor. From what I saw of Forrest, he too gets rid of it quickly, but probably not doing so with the same accounting as Goff. But, that's to be expected. After this Saturday, Goff is likely to have about 1,200 passes as a Golden Bear. There has been a ton of investment, with obvious rewards and dividends...

Someone brought-up Colby Cameron. I had done the same a few months back, also noting the ridiculously low sack rate, one that I postulated to be the best ever possibly. His TD / INT ratio in 2012, greater than 6:1, completion percentage about 69%.

I had seen this before, but now after watching Goff for a few years, seeing these types of throws from Cameron is interesting...

http://www.patriots.com/video/2013/03/18/2013-draft-prospects-colby-cameron-qb

NYCGOBEARS;842552565 said:

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The answer is:

E) All of the above.

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+1 mark my words goff will be an elite nfl quarterback bc of his football intellect and his accuracy. Do not worry about his build; he is only 21 and in any event he is very durable. Just bc you are thick doesnt mean you avoid injury well. Strength is overrated for a qb. This guy has pocket presence, he doesnt need to shrug pass rushers. Elite nfl qb.