At least according to Business Insider...

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-law-schools-us-2016-7

13. Bama
14. Berkeley

What do I know? Maybe its true, but I am dubious.

UCBerkGrad;842710273 said:

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At least according to Business Insider...

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-law-schools-us-2016-7

13. Bama
14. Berkeley

What do I know? Maybe its true, but I am dubious.

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There are a number of other questionable selections there as well.

GivemTheAxe;842710274 said:

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There are a number of other questionable selections there as well.

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Any ranking that doesn't have Yale number one and Boalt in the top 14 is automatically discredited.

Can someone post it?

This is probably how the Bama folks feel whenever we are ranked ahead of them in football.

Quote:

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So, to determine which law schools stand as the best in the country, Business Insider focused on the institutions that lead to top jobs in the legal world... [T]he ranking primarily homed in on the percentage of graduates who land full-time, long-term, highly coveted jobs, which includes positions at big law firms that pay well — those with over 251 employees — and federal clerkships, which are difficult to secure and frequently set up successful careers.

The ranking also took into consideration the percentage of graduates with full-time, long-term jobs that require passing the bar, the percentage that are unemployed but seeking employment, bar-passage rate, tuition, and median LSAT scores. You can read more about our methodology here.

Placing a higher weight on jobs — and no weight on selectivity or reputation — yielded unexpected results.

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.

BI as you'll recall ranked Irvine as America's 7th-best college town.
http://www.businessinsider.com/best-college-towns-in-america-2016-7

The biggest issue with these rankings like the Forbes rankings is that placing an emphasis on income and job prestige isn't a holistic measure of graduate productivity. I'd wager there's a lot of Boalt students who choose to pursue careers in less profitable fields because they have a sense of public service or duty, at least compared to a lot of other law school graduates.

82gradDLSdad;842710293 said:

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This is probably how the Bama folks feel whenever we are ranked ahead of them in football.

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When was that????

packawana;842710304 said:

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The biggest issue with these rankings like the Forbes rankings is that placing an emphasis on income and job prestige isn't a holistic measure of graduate productivity. I'd wager there's a lot of Boalt students who choose to pursue careers in less profitable fields because they have a sense of public service or duty, at least compared to a lot of other law school graduates.

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Your suggestion may be right. But I remember what I saw when I went to law school. Thirty years ago when I was graduating from law school, the rankings of schools with "income and job prestige" tended to track the rankings of the top schools--including Boalt, very closely. I saw almost no "altruistically motivated" law students who were able to get into a top ten or twenty school and who deliberately chose "public interest law." Life experience shows otherwise. The idealistic extremely successful 1L who says he or she despises the "corporate" firms who allegedly protect those who fleece others will still almost always take the top firm offer and the money.

Lol. Sure.

TheSouseFamily;842710313 said:

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When was that????

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Fairly often in mid 2000s, I'm guessing.

To the extent anyone in law cares about rankings, flat out no one gives a crap about any ranking other than US World News. That said, the criteria for those rankings is pretty eh.

I thought you were older than 9. We were #1 for a quarter in 2007.

TheSouseFamily;842710313 said:

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When was that????

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I graduated from Boalt well before the 90's and in my class there were many students dedicated to public interest law. They went to work for non-profits, social activist organizations, government agencies, etc. I frankly have never looked back at any rankings. The faculty was top notch and taught me enough to gain admission to respected and successful law firms where I have enjoyed a cross-section of interesting and dedicated clients. I haven't ever needed a magazine's validation as I am quite grateful for the experience I've had -- whether Boalt is #x or #y.

TheSouseFamily;842710313 said:

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When was that????

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Deutsch;842710330 said:

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I graduated from Boalt well before the 90's and in my class there were many students dedicated to public interest law. They went to work for non-profits, social activist organizations, government agencies, etc. I frankly have never looked back at any rankings. The faculty was top notch and taught me enough to gain admission to respected and successful law firms where I have enjoyed a cross-section of interesting and dedicated clients. I haven't ever needed a magazine's validation as I am quite grateful for the experience I've had -- whether Boalt is #x or #y.

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Same here Deutsch:
I graduated from Boalt in 1975. About half the Class had graduated from college 3+ years or more before going to law school and were not on the undergrad--law school--law firm track. We were mostly interested in saving the world and helping people.
A large number went into public environmental law, civil rights, helping the poor, working in Legal Aid offices, Public Defenders, representing farm workers, etc. Those jobs didn't provide job security or lots of money. I personally know a number who are now prominent but got there by putting lots of time in the trenches.

For me I felt honored to have a world class faculty talking about new and interesting ways to look at and use the law -- not how to find a job.

I am now 70 years old but still enjoy the practice of law because of what my law school profs instilled in me.

Even by the Business Insider's own stated metrics, this is ridiculous. The percent of Alabama grads with "highly coveted positions? is less than a 1/3 of Boalt's (17% vs. 54%). Their average LSAT scores are also lower. So where does Bama shine you ask? Bar passage rate of 95% vs. Boalt's 88% is the answer.

Let's see... what possibly could explain this other than the quality of the law school? Could it possibly be that the Alabama bar is slightly less difficult than the California bar?

Nah, I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.

dchu101;842710327 said:

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To the extent anyone in law cares about rankings, flat out no one gives a crap about any ranking other than US World News. That said, the criteria for those rankings is pretty eh.

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I'd say, given the snobbery that is prevalent in the legal profession, that quite a significant number of lawyers care strongly about law school rankings. Though you are correct that no one cares about Business Insider, as U.S. News seems to have the market cornered on law school rankings, undergraduate rankings, and other professional school and graduate school rankings.

68great;842710348 said:

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Same here Deutsch:
I graduated from Boalt in 1975. About half the Class had graduated from college 3+ years or more before going to law school and were not on the undergrad--law school--law firm track. We were mostly interested in saving the world and helping people.
A large number went into public environmental law, civil rights, helping the poor, working in Legal Aid offices, Public Defenders, representing farm workers, etc. Those jobs didn't provide job security or lots of money. I personally know a number who are now prominent but got there by putting lots of time in the trenches.

For me I felt honored to have a world class faculty talking about new and interesting ways to look at and use the law -- not how to find a job.

I am now 70 years old but still enjoy the practice of law because of what my law school profs instilled in me.

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This so sad to me. Collectively we decided to make even public law school very expensive and when we did, we diminished the ability of today's students to follow your example. Today they graduate with multiple six figures of debt and are compelled to chase the paycheck. Public service is a pipe dream. We have really shot ourselves in the foot.

Go!Bears;842710368 said:

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This so sad to me. Collectively we decided to make even public law school very expensive and when we did, we diminished the ability of today's students to follow your example. Today they graduate with multiple six figures of debt and are compelled to chase the paycheck. Public service is a pipe dream. We have really shot ourselves in the foot.

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I know that Harvard Law School encourages students to go into public service. If you decide to work in that area for 5 years after graduation your law school tuition debt will be forgiven. Not sure about the details but report comes from a student who looked into the program.

Maybe Boalt can implement something along those lines.

I believe that's a federal program.

Sec! Sec! Sec!

Cal88;842710395 said:

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Sec! Sec! Sec!

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The SEC is killing it on the Bachelorette too. It's an all SEC final for pete's sake. Amirite, okaydo?

So much for the branding "Berkeley Law!" Sounds like a terrorist group. Talking with law school administration, I was really surprised at their not so well rounded knowledge of real world perception of the name Berkeley Law and the irony in the name.

I heard they are considering a change...to... "Berkeley Law Matters!"

barabbas;842710468 said:

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So much for the branding "Berkeley Law!" Sounds like a terrorist group. Talking with law school administration, I was really surprised at their not so well rounded knowledge of real world perception of the name Berkeley Law and the irony in the name.

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UCBerkGrad;842710273 said:

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At least according to Business Insider...

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-law-schools-us-2016-7

13. Bama
14. Berkeley

What do I know? Maybe its true, but I am dubious.

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Ha! Alabama law better than Berkeley law?

Now, that is funny.

Dark Reverie;842710504 said:

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Ha! Alabama law better than Berkeley law?

Now, that is funny.

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One can always count on DR for support when the foe is Alabama.

GivemTheAxe;842710393 said:

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I know that Harvard Law School encourages students to go into public service. If you decide to work in that area for 5 years after graduation your law school tuition debt will be forgiven. Not sure about the details but report comes from a student who looked into the program.

Maybe Boalt can implement something along those lines.

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The Federal program forgives after 10 years of working in the PS sector and making your payments, It's not bad, but it's not good.

Go!Bears;842710567 said:

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The Federal program forgives after 10 years of working in the PS sector and making your payments, It's not bad, but it's not good.

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It basically works out to being forgiven the interest. And it only applies to federal loans. And, at least a decade ago, the annual maximum for federal loans did not meet even half of tuition, never mind all the other costs of attendance.

Also private grants and state funding available.

barabbas - I totally agree with you - very bad choice. Sounds like a contradiction - maybe it should be Berkeley vs. the Law.

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