OT: Howdy Doody to be released Friday

3,969 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 9 yr ago by Unit2Sucks
UrsaMajor
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Brock Turner the Furd Rapist gets out of jail on Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/remember-brock-turner-from-3-months-ago-hell-leave-jail-on-friday_us_57c58c81e4b0cdfc5ac9256b
GB54
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Brock Turner Bobblehead Day vs Kansas State
GB54
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I haven't seen it posted here but Judge Persky is only working civil not criminal cases in Santa Clara. This sounds better than it is- he "volunteered" to do this and is free to return to the criminal bench when he chooses
Strykur
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GB54;842719939 said:

Brock Turner Bobblehead Day


This would be a fantastic Big Game promotion.
bearister
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GB54;842719942 said:

I haven't seen it posted here but Judge Persky is only working civil not criminal cases in Santa Clara. This sounds better than it is- he "volunteered" to do this and is free to return to the criminal bench when he chooses


I think the effort to recall him sets a bad precedent. His conduct is a matter for the Commission on Judicial Performance to review.
GB54
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bearister;842719953 said:

I think the effort to recall him sets a bad precedent. His conduct is a matter for the Commission on Judicial Performance to review.


He was elected by the people, he can be removed by the people
UrsaMajor
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True. But I agree with bearister that it's a bad precedent. Apparently part of the reason for his leaving the criminal bench was that the SM County DA's office was asking for his recusal for any assault cases.
Strykur
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He has to fight like hell for this job because after this his career in law is probably over, he won't have a chance in any courtroom as counsel.
burritos
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GB54;842719942 said:

I haven't seen it posted here but Judge Persky is only working civil not criminal cases in Santa Clara. This sounds better than it is- he "volunteered" to do this and is free to return to the criminal bench when he chooses

He still gets to keep his pension though.
NewYorkCityBear
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UrsaMajor;842719963 said:

True. But I agree with bearister that it's a bad precedent. Apparently part of the reason for his leaving the criminal bench was that the SM County DA's office was asking for his recusal for any assault cases.


Apparently people made it clear during jury selection that they did not want to sit on his juries since he disregarded the jury's wishes in the Turner case.

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_29997198/judge-aaron-persky-prospective-jurors-refuse-serve
BearlyCareAnymore
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UrsaMajor;842719963 said:

True. But I agree with bearister that it's a bad precedent. Apparently part of the reason for his leaving the criminal bench was that the SM County DA's office was asking for his recusal for any assault cases.


If this starts happening to judges all over he place, I'll agree it is bad precedent. If it happens to one judge who ignores the law and the jury verdict and the people express their view on that, that is the way the system works. That is how the public lets members of the judiciary know they are out of step. And to be clear, if he had followed the sentencing guidelines, he'd be in the clear. He chose to ignore the will of the people.

I think it sets a good precedent because the bottom line is the reason why entitled rich snots rape girls is because they don't believe there will be consequences. They start going away for 10 years, the rapes will stop pronto.

As for the DA asking for recusals, not only do I not feel bad about that, they were doing their job. How would you feel if you were the DA and you decided to be "fair" to good ol' Persky and the next rape victim gets to watch her case get minimized and her attacker essentially set free? Their duty is not to Persky.

I would also say if the perpetrator had hacked somebody to death and the judge decided he should get a sentence far lighter than the guidelines, no one would be talking about the consequences of public outcry setting bad precedent. The worse precedent by far was set by Persky.
OneKeg
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I definitely do not intend to take either Turner's crime and punishment or Persky's fate lightly, but every time I see Persky's picture, Vizzini from The Princess Bride pops into my head...

Edited: DAMMIT Bearister beat me to the punch! Edited further: or did he? Now I don't see his post.

UrsaMajor
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I wasn't clear, OB. I am totally in support of the DA's position. My problem with judges being recalled for single verdicts is that it can lead to the end of the independent judiciary (which is why I don't like the idea of judges being elected). Judges often make unpopular decisions--that's their job; we don't vote on constitutional issues or criminal cases by plebiscite. Having said all of that, I, too, am appalled by the sentence and--by extension--by Persky as well.
GB54
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I don't think it threatens an independent judiciary because it's not easy- getting and verifying signatures, putting it on the ballot, hearing his case, voting- it's unlikely it happens unless there is cause
BearlyCareAnymore
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UrsaMajor;842719994 said:

I wasn't clear, OB. I am totally in support of the DA's position. My problem with judges being recalled for single verdicts is that it can lead to the end of the independent judiciary (which is why I don't like the idea of judges being elected). Judges often make unpopular decisions--that's their job; we don't vote on constitutional issues or criminal cases by plebiscite. Having said all of that, I, too, am appalled by the sentence and--by extension--by Persky as well.


Let me come at this another way. Of course judges have to make unpopular decisions at times. Of course we shouldn't just toss judges willy nilly for one decision. But what I think many who make your argument are discounting is that many people agree with that principle and would be very hesitant to recall a judge and take that very much into account before deciding that his behavior is disqualifying. I assume if a serial killer were convicted by a jury of killing 50 people and the judge said - 6 months probation, you'd acknowledge that this one, unpopular decision should lead to his removal from the bench. In this case, he didn't just make an unpopular decision. This isn't like the Supreme Court ruling that flag burning is protected speech under the Constitution. It isn't the Rose Bird court making constitutional and legislative interpretations of California law and the US and California Constitutions. This is a judge who said, well the jury convicted of X crime. The people of California have passed sentencing guidelines saying this crime should be punished by X years in jail. Mmmm. No. Because I can.

I would like you to consider the decades, actually centuries, of rape of women enabled by judges making awful decisions. Judges deciding you can't rape your wife. I was given the treat of reading one judge's holding in law school that went like this. Any respectable woman would choose death over rape. Therefore, she would fight to the death to stop the rape. This woman isn't dead. Therefore on some level she must have consented. No rape. This was from the 20th century.

If our judicial system hadn't massively failed on the issue of rape for years, I submit the rate of occurrence of what is misnamed "date rape" or "acquaintance rape" would be dramatically lower. There have been numerous cases since Doody's where judges have similarly said "gee he seems like a good guy that made a mistake and ruining his life doesn't seem to make much sense". I'm going to step out of reality for a minute and assume Doody is an awesome guy. Doody will go on to solve world hunger and do it for free. Well, I'd argue that Doody was a guy for whom the threat of a long prison sentence would have a significant deterrent effect. Had the Doody's of the past gotten put away, Doody doesn't do what Doody did. Because Doody is not punished, later Doody's keep up the legacy. (and for those that are going to say punishment isn't a deterrent, that is significantly untrue and is a misapplication of the conclusion that the death penalty MIGHT not have much deterrent effect as opposed to significant prison sentences). There is a reason the rate of sexual assault is higher at elite private schools than public schools. Rich boys think they will get away with it because rich boys get away with it.

When people pass a law to get a conviction. When the DA actually has the guts to try the case. When the jury ignores the usual blame the victim argument and returns a guilty verdict and the last line of defense for the rapists are judges who look at the criminal and think "there but for the grace of God go I", it needs to be stopped. I ask you, which precedent would you rather set? You have to pick one. Judges are exceeding rarely recalled. Rape victims are abused by the judicial system daily. IMO, a few strategic recalled would be an extremely effective way of speeding up justice that is a long time overdue. The next time a judge looks at Doody, remembers his own Frat days, and feels sorry for Doody, I want him asking whether Doody is worth throwing his career away over.
OdontoBear66
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bearister;842719953 said:

I think the effort to recall him sets a bad precedent. His conduct is a matter for the Commission on Judicial Performance to review.


It speaks to the ruling being so egregious in proportion and the fear that the Commission would not act (likes like as in law, medicine, etc.).

The incidence of punishment of peers by Ethics Committees and Commissions is ridiculously low in the professions. There is a curtain of protection based on understanding and fear of those involved in the judgment. And I speak from having been on and chairing a professional ethics committee for over three years. Also, note the use of "so egregious".
510Bear
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This thread title is really unfair to Howdy Doody, who doesn't deserve to be compared to Brock Turner.
BGGB2
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Good writeup, OTB. I'm sold.

OaktownBear;842720013 said:

...... There is a reason the rate of sexual assault is higher at elite private schools than public schools. Rich boys think they will get away with it because rich boys get away with it......


This statement smells like the truth to me. But have there been actual studies to confirm this?

OaktownBear;842720013 said:

......If our judicial system hadn't massively failed on the issue of rape for years, I submit the rate of occurrence of what is misnamed "date rape" or "acquaintance rape" would be dramatically lower. ....


What do you mean by "misnamed"? I don't believe these terms were created with the intention of creating a class of sexual assaults which is somehow 'less serious' than stranger rape. Rather, I think they were created to raise the seriousness of sexual assaults which in the bad old days might have been dismissed as 'misunderstandings'. We need these terms to get the idea across that, just because the victim and the perpetrator know each other, sexual assault is still rape.
Phantomfan
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GB54;842719955 said:

He was elected by the people, he can be removed by the people

Recall's and impeachment is a critical (and underused) part of this kind of government. IMHO.
GB54
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510Bear;842720023 said:

This thread title is really unfair to Howdy Doody, who doesn't deserve to be compared to Brock Turner.


Howdy always minded his wood- I always respected him for that
bearister
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http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-stanford-judge-recall-20160616-snap-story.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_30025027/brock-turner-opposition-recall-judge-stanford-swimmer-case
OdontoBear66
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bearister;842720110 said:

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-stanford-judge-recall-20160616-snap-story.html

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_30025027/brock-turner-opposition-recall-judge-stanford-swimmer-case


And the sources are the LA Times and Edwin Chemerinsky??? Of course they are against. That is why you can't get a fair judgment from within. Persky is apparently a very good and reasoned judge, but on this one he made a very bad call. For the most part, the public should not be included in the justice department directly, but for something far, far out I feel they need a sense of access.
sp4149
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In the several months of discussion about Brock Turner's "light sentence" most rhetoric seems to ignore the consequences of life-time registration as a sex offender or trivialize it as meaningless.
The reality for most is that it makes resuming life after jail time virtually impossible in California. I wonder if anyone has ever asked convicted sex offenders if they would be willing to spend an
extra five years in prison to avoid registration as a sex offender.
In comparing the Turner case to the Indiana University rape case earlier this summer which resulted in a misdemeanor sentence of time served (one day) for a serial rapist; there are similarities
and differences. Similarities the women had been drinking ( however the women in Indiana were conscious and aware), the attackers attempted a sexual assault (but Turner was able to perform
and performed his penetration with a foreign object), all seemed to have indifferent treatment at medical faciltiies, all seem to be traumatized by their court experiences.
Differences; the women in Indiana were awake and aware during the assault however the prosecutors dismissed their testimony in order to enter into a plea bargain; no witnesses came forward
in Indiana while at Stanford there were two witnesses that stopped the assault; the victims in Indiana will have lifetime memories of their assaults while the Stanford victim has no memory, her
trauma has come after, all feel poorly treated by the legal process, the victims in Indiana were not consulted by the prosecutors prior to the plea deal reduction to a misdemeanor, the Stanford
victim actually got a felony conviction, but wanted a stiffer sentence; the Stanford attacker really wasn't a rich kid, the Indiana attacker was a very rich kid.

Comparing the two cases, I feel the Indiana attacker got off far easier and the legal result is more egregious; the Indiana victims have suffered greater harm. Lifetime registration as a sex offender
is far worse than a day in jail. I would feel more outrage if Turner had got the 'soft' legal outcome given to the serial rapist in Indiana.
OdontoBear66
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sp4149;842720183 said:

In the several months of discussion about Brock Turner's "light sentence" most rhetoric seems to ignore the consequences of life-time registration as a sex offender or trivialize it as meaningless.
The reality for most is that it makes resuming life after jail time virtually impossible in California. I wonder if anyone has ever asked convicted sex offenders if they would be willing to spend an
extra five years in prison to avoid registration as a sex offender.
In comparing the Turner case to the Indiana University rape case earlier this summer which resulted in a misdemeanor sentence of time served (one day) for a serial rapist; there are similarities
and differences. Similarities the women had been drinking ( however the women in Indiana were conscious and aware), the attackers attempted a sexual assault (but Turner was able to perform
and performed his penetration with a foreign object), all seemed to have indifferent treatment at medical faciltiies, all seem to be traumatized by their court experiences.
Differences; the women in Indiana were awake and aware during the assault however the prosecutors dismissed their testimony in order to enter into a plea bargain; no witnesses came forward
in Indiana while at Stanford there were two witnesses that stopped the assault; the victims in Indiana will have lifetime memories of their assaults while the Stanford victim has no memory, her
trauma has come after, all feel poorly treated by the legal process, the victims in Indiana were not consulted by the prosecutors prior to the plea deal reduction to a misdemeanor, the Stanford
victim actually got a felony conviction, but wanted a stiffer sentence; the Stanford attacker really wasn't a rich kid, the Indiana attacker was a very rich kid.

Comparing the two cases, I feel the Indiana attacker got off far easier and the legal result is more egregious; the Indiana victims have suffered greater harm. Lifetime registration as a sex offender
is far worse than a day in jail. I would feel more outrage if Turner had got the 'soft' legal outcome given to the serial rapist in Indiana.


Turner needed both. Registration as a sex offender and reasonable jail time to send a message, a stiff one, that rape is unacceptable in our society. Let's get on with it.
BearlyCareAnymore
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sp4149;842720183 said:

In the several months of discussion about Brock Turner's "light sentence" most rhetoric seems to ignore the consequences of life-time registration as a sex offender or trivialize it as meaningless.
The reality for most is that it makes resuming life after jail time virtually impossible in California. I wonder if anyone has ever asked convicted sex offenders if they would be willing to spend an
extra five years in prison to avoid registration as a sex offender.
In comparing the Turner case to the Indiana University rape case earlier this summer which resulted in a misdemeanor sentence of time served (one day) for a serial rapist; there are similarities
and differences. Similarities the women had been drinking ( however the women in Indiana were conscious and aware), the attackers attempted a sexual assault (but Turner was able to perform
and performed his penetration with a foreign object), all seemed to have indifferent treatment at medical faciltiies, all seem to be traumatized by their court experiences.
Differences; the women in Indiana were awake and aware during the assault however the prosecutors dismissed their testimony in order to enter into a plea bargain; no witnesses came forward
in Indiana while at Stanford there were two witnesses that stopped the assault; the victims in Indiana will have lifetime memories of their assaults while the Stanford victim has no memory, her
trauma has come after, all feel poorly treated by the legal process, the victims in Indiana were not consulted by the prosecutors prior to the plea deal reduction to a misdemeanor, the Stanford
victim actually got a felony conviction, but wanted a stiffer sentence; the Stanford attacker really wasn't a rich kid, the Indiana attacker was a very rich kid.

Comparing the two cases, I feel the Indiana attacker got off far easier and the legal result is more egregious; the Indiana victims have suffered greater harm. Lifetime registration as a sex offender
is far worse than a day in jail. I would feel more outrage if Turner had got the 'soft' legal outcome given to the serial rapist in Indiana.


Oh man! Brain wave! I just had a great idea on how to save federal, state, and local governments tons of money. Shut down every prison and every jail! Make all criminals register! That will show them! Why pay for Charles Manson's care and feeding. Charlie is now a registered murderer! I mean that will stick with him. Who will ever hire Charles Manson? Registered pick pockets! Registered burglars! Registered robbers! I know you'll go for this idea because I know you don't think that rape is a lesser crime than pick pocket. Please. I'd like to hear you argue why we should jail a single pickpocket or burglar ahead of Doody. Why does Doody get away with merely public scorn which he can choose to ignore or not while Jimmy Lightfingers gets to enjoy time in the slammer. That is, unless you think that pickpocketing is worse than what Doody did.

C'mon! This is an awesome idea! In fact, I can add to it. Make them wear a red letter on their chest that denotes their crime for all to see.

The thing that is so repugnant about your constant hammering this issue is that underlying it is the belief that Doody as a member of a privileged class has a lot of social standing that he doesn't want to lose and so merely registering as a sex offender is a brutal punishment, while some poor schmoe doesn't have any social standing to lose, so he has to pay with his freedom.

Registering as a sex offender was never intended as a punishment. It is to protect the community AFTER they serve their punishment. Are there doors closed to Doody? Yes. Are there still plenty open to him that allow him to live a happy, healthy life with no remorse if that is what he chooses? Absolutely.

And guess what? Justice is frequently not served. Going out and finding cases where justice was also not served does not make this one okay.
UrsaMajor
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You make an excellent case, OB, and I have to say that it is persuasive. Well done. My only concern is that some may make the same case for other kinds of cases, but in this instance, you are certainly right, IMO.
bearister
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...and speaking of Chuck:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3767372/Is-Charles-Manson-victim-New-memoir-Beach-Boy-Mike-Love-claims-bandmate-Dennis-Wilson-witnessed-shooting.html
okaydo
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Welp....

Unit2Sucks
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To OTB's point - I would also point out that in California you can't use the megans's law list to make employment decisions so it's not quite the catastrophe for sex offenders in CA that it might be in other states. We also have other protections for ex-cons to make it harder to discriminate against them in employment practices so jail time served doesn't destroy one's ability to earn a living.
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