It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

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I've been ready for a change since I decided not to renew my season Tix this year. Not being able to consistently stop anyone won't get us anywhere. And I'm on record as saying I go to watch good football not good students playing mediocre to bad football.

I think you are mistaking a multitude of voices with a single consciousness. The community consists of different opinions; some that want to fire Ykes, some that think we deserve a NC and a lot of other forms. When we experience a great win, you hear from one group of voices. When we experience a frustrating loss, a different set of voices. I don't actually think that the majority of posters to this forum actually change their opinion that much - they just raise their voice at different times. Unless you are going to review each individuals history of posts and prove me wrong (I'm too lazy), I think you will find that the smallest differences do NOT turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard".

Also, FWIW, someone can support Cal Football, but also believe that Sonny Dykes is the not the best coach for the program. Those are not really mutually exclusive attitudes. In fact, some might argue that the opposite is true.

:gobears:

82gradDLSdad;842744455 said:

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I've been ready for a change since I decided not to renew my season Tix this year. Not being able to consistently stop anyone won't get us anywhere. And I'm on record as saying I go to watch good football not good students playing mediocre to bad football.

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Agreed. We should be 5-1 and in the hunt right now, especially with furd and Oregon looking like wounded prey. Of course, there would be the small matter of beating the teams that have beaten them, but if our coaching staff could just avoid these facepalm-type mistakes like the big-boy programs' coaches do, we'd have a fighting chance in those games.

Instead, we seem almost certain to get curbstomped by UW and WSU, and could very well lose to Oregon, furd, fUCLA and fUSC, thus ending up 3-9. Not exactly what we hoped for in year 4 of the Sonny era. If anyone doubts that outcome could happen, just consider that we lost to the conference's "worst team".

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

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The one constant is absolutely horrible defense, both in our wins and in our losses, for the past 4 years. I think just about everyone on this board agrees with that.

I predicted 5-1 to start. But I understand the season has ups and downs, the team has strengths and weaknesses, and that losing two LBs and two safeties right before the season started hurt a lot. I think with this team there are a few more victories to come and some close losses, too. Nonetheless, Go Bears!

Did you see who Cal lost to? A loss to a respectable Utah team is one thing, but to lose to the conference doormat this year reflects on how poorly this program is performing. I doubt this defeat changed anyone's opinion either way though, because the body of evidence is already well established. I'll continue to cheer for wins knowing that a coaching change is unlikely to happen this year due to many factors, but this program is as bad on defense as Holmoe's was on offense.

510Bear;842744466 said:

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Agreed. We should be 5-1 and in the hunt right now, especially with furd and Oregon looking like wounded prey. Of course, there would be the small matter of beating the teams that have beaten them, but if our coaching staff could just avoid these facepalm-type mistakes like the big-boy programs' coaches do, we'd have a fighting chance in those games.

Instead, we seem almost certain to get curbstomped by UW and WSU, and could very well lose to Oregon, furd, fUCLA and fUSC, thus ending up 3-9. Not exactly what we hoped for in year 4 of the Sonny era. If anyone doubts that outcome could happen, just consider that we lost to the conference's "worst team".

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It could happen, but the odds say it won't. Our bye comes at a good time, as we'll be able to regroup mentally and (hopefully) physically. Also, the conference is very unpredictable this year. The only teams that are fairly consistent are UW and Utah, and both played a poor game on the road (UW escaped with the win in theirs). We get fUCLA and Furd in Berkeley. WSU is not a sure loss for us, by the way, as Leach teams typically have one or two head-scratching losses.

chazzed;842744479 said:

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It could happen, but the odds say it won't. Our bye comes at a good time, as we'll be able to regroup mentally and (hopefully) physically. Also, the conference is very unpredictable this year. The only teams that are fairly consistent are UW and Utah, and both played a poor game on the road (UW escaped with the win in theirs). We get fUCLA and Furd in Berkeley. WSU is not a sure loss for us, by the way, as Leach teams typically have one or two head-scratching losses.

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Let's volunteer to deliver the "Pirate" one of those head-scratching losses!

Not as confident about furd. We continue to match up really badly with them and I'm thinking they'll benefit from the "USC effect" against us. Having won 6 straight against us, most of them not even close, they'll firmly believe they can beat us and our team might agree.

chazzed;842744479 said:

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WSU is not a sure loss for us, by the way, as Leach teams typically have one or two head-scratching losses.

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Cal Football: We'll make you scratch your head!! (new t-shirt slogan)
Here's a video of BI after the Oregon State Game....it was intense.
[video=youtube;-JQJYTYnfxk][/video]

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

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Its the nature of the internet and instant gratification. I assure you if Cal beats what may (I said may) be a weak Furd team this year, no one will remember OSU.

wifeisafurd;842744567 said:

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Its the nature of the internet and instant gratification. I assure you if Cal beats what may (I said may) be a weak Furd team this year, no one will remember OSU.

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I will. I won't forget how easily teams move the ball on us. Just like I haven't forgotten how inept Holmoe's teams were. You're wrong to think that any win here and there erases what is generationally bad defense and a sub .500 record.

82gradDLSdad;842744599 said:

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I will. I won't forget how easily teams move the ball on us. Just like I haven't forgotten how inept Holmoe's teams were. You're wrong to think that any win here and there erases what is generationally bad defense and a sub .500 record.

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Your in the minority here. Most posters think the coaching staff is great or horrible depending on the outcome of the most recent game.

wifeisafurd;842744635 said:

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Your in the minority here. Most posters think the coaching staff is great or horrible depending on the outcome of the most recent game.

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Boy, not the ones I watch the games with. I don't know how you forget most of these defensive efforts. I mean 97 snaps in a game you won!!!??? Incredible...and not in a good way.

I predicted a 4-8 or 5-7 season from the start. I think the season will end up about where I predicted - with a lousy front seven on defense, it was foreordained.
Sonny's offense is very exciting, but he can't pick a DC (although I thought Kaufman would be better) and he can't recruit defensive players for the front seven.
I wanted Pedersen, then Andersen then MacIntyre before Dykes, but I don't have a vote. I agree with those who want to go to a successful coach from a lesser conference.

CAL6371;842744647 said:

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I predicted a 4-8 or 5-7 season from the start. I think the season will end up about where I predicted - with a lousy front seven on defense, it was foreordained.
Sonny's offense is very exciting, but he can't pick a DC (although I thought Kaufman would be better) and he can't recruit defensive players for the front seven.
I wanted Pedersen, then Andersen then MacIntyre before Dykes, but I don't have a vote. I agree with those who want to go to a successful coach from a lesser conference.

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Well there's our problem: we are only playing 6 out of the bad front 7

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

---

Nope. The general narrative here is the defense is awful. That has been and still is the case. That is not just an instant reaction to one game, but rather 4 seasons. This latest performance was simply in theme with that. Sure, some people want Dykes fired, but that's also not new. In reality, most want a better defense. The biggest call is for a new DC. And again, that's not a new reaction to the OSU game. He's been mostly mediocre to terrible. From his recruiting to his player development.

We got rocked on defense by OSU and yet nothing is different, everything is the same. This is not about instant gratification or being reactionary to the latest game. Is our defense still bad after all these years? Yes? OK, great. Nothing instant or reactionary about that assessment.

Dykes has consistently turned out one of the worst defenses in the entire country during his tenure here. He clearly has very interest in this unit otherwise it would have improved. He turned around the offense through intense recruiting and coaching. The defense got the leftovers in recruiting

82gradDLSdad;842744644 said:

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Boy, not the ones I watch the games with. I don't know how you forget most of these defensive efforts. I mean 97 snaps in a game you won!!!??? Incredible...and not in a good way.

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Well i get exacerbated by the poor tackling and defenders being constantly out of position, and some really dumb special teams play, but the comments after the games tend to be way more extreme, one way or the other, depending on the game outcome, so I think at lot of what is in the OP is accurate. Just saying.

wifeisafurd;842744710 said:

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Well i get exacerbated by the poor tackling and defenders being constantly out of position, and some really dumb special teams play, but the comments after the games tend to be way more extreme, one way or the other, depending on the game outcome, so I think at lot of what is in the OP is accurate. Just saying.

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Fair enough. I do think the average Cal fan wants Sonny and the team to succeed and will slightly overreact to a win. When our typical (horrible defense) loss happens we get four years of frustration coming out

The sad part is that as late as 2008 (the last time we beat them in the rain soaked Masoli game -- the beat downs started in 2009), we were a better program than Oregon even without the new CMS. Since then they have been to multiple BCS games and 2 national championship games (just pause and think about that for a moment). So finally they are down, and now it's our turn. Except our turn was a 8-5 last season (topped off by a glorious Armed Forces Bowl win) and we needed every ounce of magic from the #1 draft pick in the NFL to do so. While Oregon and Furd are down this season, we can't take advantage as we are scuffling. Washington and Wazzu are making their moves. A win over dreaded Oregon State would have put us in good shape to at least compete for a Pac-12 North title. We're back in the dumps after that loss, and a great opportunity has been wasted.

chazzed;842744479 said:

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It could happen, but the odds say it won't. Our bye comes at a good time, as we'll be able to regroup mentally and (hopefully) physically. Also, the conference is very unpredictable this year. The only teams that are fairly consistent are UW and Utah, and both played a poor game on the road (UW escaped with the win in theirs). We get fUCLA and Furd in Berkeley. WSU is not a sure loss for us, by the way, as Leach teams typically have one or two head-scratching losses.

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I would agree with you about the bye, but Dykes is winless when coming off a bye week since being at Cal.

In 2014 and 2015, after Bye Weeks, we lost @AZ on a hail mary, lost @UCLA and lost @USC. We also beat Air Force after several bye weeks (bowl game).

Not great, but not what you make it out to be.

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

---

This is well said and pretty much it is my central complaint with the board, especially since folks base their expectations on poor reasoning to start with.

I have never have cared as much about winning as "how they play". I suppose if Cal played poorly and somehow won 10 or 11 games, I'd shut up.
But I also shut up if Cal plays well and loses, even if it means they win only 4 or 5 games.
But that is just my opinion from the standpoint of the entertainment side.

There is another side of being a fan and this side is often confused with being a "negabear". These fans, and I am one of them, are concerned with the longterm health of the program as it relates to deeper issues like finances and administration. These fans aren't paying attention so much to how entertaining the team is, they are concerned with the financial impact of having a losing program and or a dysfunctional administration.

But both types of fans, and I am both, need to assess whether or not the current coaches are going to be able to recruit effectively to satisfy their goals in the future. What I see at Cal under Dykes is a really impotent situation recruiting on defense covered over by an offense that is exciting. But even that exciting offense is starting to get old because the excitement is really just stress: The stress of having to score all the time to have a chance.
If you like constant stress or you think it is exciting, keep promoting Dykes.

I was very reticent to come down on Dykes early on. And I had several wars on this board with folks like Oaktown over that. The reason was that I wanted coaching stability. Well time has passed and I don't see much change. We really aren't that far from the type of year that got JT fired. Sure Dykes has done all of this under pressure to get the APR up. And he's achieved that. But I don't take any satisfaction in knowing that because a lot of Dykes' failures are preventable and have nothing to do with the academic side of it. If you believe that he could not find more than 2 qualified LBs last recruiting cycle then, yeah, support Dykes. I don't believe that. And what really angers me is the spin move to go to a 4-2-5 in order to cover for that. That is big cowardly CYA and BS move all wrapped into one.

So I also will not renew season tickets. And in fairness it has little to do with Dykes. But it does have to do with the dysfunctional of Cal football in general, of which Dykes is a big symtom.

6bear6;842744454 said:

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It's amazing how the smallest difference in the result of a game can turn people from supporters to "fire the bastard!" We held off a Utah team at the goal line on October 1, and won by five points. On October 8, we came back from 17 points down against the purported worst team in the Pac12 to tie it up and go to OT. We then lost by three points. Same players, same coaches, similar plays in both instances. In the first, the team is aroused and at home, in the other, the team travels and has, perhaps, a let-down emotionally. We win the first and lose the second. In each case, our defense performed less than adequately. Utah did a very good job of keeping the ball away from our offense by nibbling and scratching their way to first down after first down. We simply couldn't halt their inevitable drive, except in the last minute. OSU set records for rushing against us and we had the same problem at stopping their inevitable drive.

In my opinion, and probably the opinion of most people here, we definitely should have defeated SDSU and OSU. The ASU game was anticipated to be tight. The Sun Devils gave us all we could handle one year ago and we were fortunate to win that game. So ASU was a toss up. Many thought we would fall to Texas. We fooled them and came away a winner. Would we feel as strongly, as many apparently do, to fire the staff if the schedule had gone as predicted and we stood at 4-2 at this point?

---

This is well said and pretty much it is my central complaint with the board, especially since folks base their expectations on poor reasoning to start with.

I have never have cared as much about winning as "how they play". I suppose if Cal played poorly and somehow won 10 or 11 games, I'd shut up.
But I also shut up if Cal plays well and loses, even if it means they win only 4 or 5 games.
But that is just my opinion from the standpoint of the entertainment side.

There is another side of being a fan and this side often confused with being a "negabear". These fans, and I am one of them, are concerned with the longterm health of the program as it relates to deeper issues like finances and administration. These fans aren't paying attention so much to how entertaining the team is, they are concerned with the financial impact of having a losing program and or a dysfunctional administration.

But both types of fans, and I am both, need to assess whether or not the current coaches are going to be able to recruit effectively to satisfy their goals in the future. What I see at Cal under Dykes is a really impotent situation recruiting on defense covered over by an offense that is exciting. But even that exciting offense is starting to get old because the excitement is really just stress: The stress of having to score all the time to have a chance.
If you like constant stress or you think it is exciting, keep promoting Dykes.

I was very reticent to come down on Dykes early on. And I had several wars on this board with folks like Oaktown over that. The reason was that I wanted coaching stability. Well time has passed and I don't see much change. We really aren't that far from the type of year that got JT fired. Sure Dykes has done all of this under pressure to get the APR up. And he's achieved that. But I don't take any satisfaction in knowing that because a lot of Dykes' failures are preventable and have nothing to do with the academic side of it. If you believe that he could find more than 2 qualified LBs last recruiting cycle then, yeah, support Dykes. I don't believe that. And what really angers me is the spin move to go to a 4-2-5 in order to cover for that. That is big cowardly CYA and BS move all wrapped into one. Dykes has a disease, which is that he is heavily biases towards giving scholarships to WRs, thereby restricting the number of scholies available to others.

So I also will not renew season tickets. And in fairness it has little to do with Dykes. But it does have to do with the dysfunctional of Cal football in general, of which Dykes is a big symtom.

oski003;842744875 said:

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In 2014 and 2015, after Bye Weeks, we lost @AZ on a hail mary, lost @UCLA and lost @USC. We also beat Air Force after several bye weeks (bowl game).

Not great, but not what you make it out to be.

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He still hasn't won. I will give you that coming out the gates we looked really prepared for that Arizona game. But, against UCLA, USC, & SDSU we got off to horrible starts. We we were probably slight underdogs in all of these games, but in 3 of the 4 we didn't even give ourselves a good shot of winning because of our poor start.

Losing on the road to 10 win teams is hardly conclusive of lack of ability to play after a bye.

oski003;842744894 said:

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Losing on the road to 10 win teams is hardly conclusive of lack of ability to play after a bye.

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UCLA last year had the exact same record that we did at 8-5 and USC finished 9-4 in 2014. The only 10 win team was 2014 Arizona at 10-4. SDSU is obviously still up in the air, but they are also a non-Power 5 team.

And to me it is not just the losing, but the way we have started games coming out of bye weeks. I actually thought we played very well against Arizona. I remember thinking to myself "The coaches made really good use of the bye week and we seem ultra prepared". I just hope I feel like that again next Saturday, but I have my doubts.

Good line but they have to play a front 6 - they don't have even two lb who could start on any other team, so they play only two. Remember when we had a front 8? In 1968 on defense they used four down linemen and four linebackers and had one excellent one in reserve (Phil Croyle) In those days we could select and recruit defensive players. Of course, the offense was boring beyond belief.

ive felt that Dykes isnt going to win anything significant of note for awhile now(since 2014) and game to game doesnt change that for me. He's a mediocre coach that does some good things(offense, discipline, team concept, effort) but ultimately doesnt do other things well that will always hold him back(recruiting, defense, game management/strategy, special teams). He's a .500 type of coach, sometimes he'll be a little over (7-8 wins), sometimes a little under (4-5 wins).

The thing is I actually dont think that he will ever completely bottom out because his teams tend to fight hard and give effort. I'll enjoy the team game to game, but know that contending for a pac-12 championship is pretty much out of the question

Could not agree more! But this is what or all that Cal wants. It's does not have a tradition of winning BIG, but just be respectable. Give them a 500 and a second tier bowl ever third year and everyone is happy. That is who are. Accept it!

Just because we only have 2 LBs doesn't mean we have to play 4-2-5. I think a creative DC, given that we are thin at LB, would show 1 or even 2 safeties in and around the box throughout the game not just at the end of it when we have no alternative other than to sell out to stop the run. Come on Art, put a creative cap on and start moving guys around to cover our weaknesses. Don't just sit there and get run over.

CAL6371;842745069 said:

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Good line but they have to play a front 6 - they don't have even two lb who could start on any other team, so they play only two. Remember when we had a front 8? In 1968 on defense they used four down linemen and four linebackers and had one excellent one in reserve (Phil Croyle) In those days we could select and recruit defensive players. Of course, the offense was boring beyond belief.

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I certainly agree with you that daring and creativity on defense have not been the hallmarks of the Kaufman era. I originally thought that he was a good hire and have supported him. But after three years and poor recruiting on defense, I have to agree that he has proven that is not the man for the job.
I also agree with those who note that the difference in any contest between winning and losing is often quite small. But it is the good coaches who are consistently on the plus side of the ledger. Dykes and Kaufman have not been on the plus side with any consistency.

We lost to Oregon State, arguably the worst team in the Pac 12, two steps forward, two steps back, good teams don't allow this to happen on a consistent basis and now it is time to move on.

We aren't the only ones with a BYE. So does Oregon. They should be a rusty as us when the game starts.