Apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I just watched the game broadcast and noticed five men in the backfield on the trick 2-pt. conversion play that was so crucial. Cal lined up legally, with Cochran in tight on the left end and Hinant to his right in the tackle position. On the right side Wharton was split wide and behind the line and Watson was in the slot and on the line. He signaled to Wharton to make sure he stayed back, leaving Watson as the right end and eligible. So in the backfield besides Wharton was Webb, a running back whose number I couldn't see behind him, and Robertson slotted left. All well and good. Seven on the line and four in the backfield. Then came the trickery. Cochran shifted from left end all the way to the slot position at right end, taking the place of Watson, who moved back into the backfield. Cochran's move drew all the attention--would they throw the ball to the big guy--as it slyly uncovered Hinant, who was now the eligible left end. When the play started Cochran waved his hands, seeming to call for the ball, while Robertson angled from the left slot over the middle, drawing all the defenders there with him to the right and leaving Hinant unnoticed to slip into the left corner all by himself for the easy catch from Webb. BUT--Watson's shift into the backfield made him the fifth back--Webb, Wharton, Robertson, Watson and the other running back. And no one took Watson's place on the line. Cochran simply moved from one end to the other. Maybe Wharton was supposed to step up to the line on the far right, but if he did that I didn't see it. And no official seemed to notice this, and no one on the broadcast made any mention of it whatsoever. I know, I know--I must be crazy. Because if everyone else sees a thing one way and I see it differently I must be wrong. But that's the way I saw It!

LibbBear;842749406 said:

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Apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I just watched the game broadcast and noticed five men in the backfield on the trick 2-pt. conversion play that was so crucial. Cal lined up legally, with Cochran in tight on the left end and Hinant to his right in the tackle position. On the right side Wharton was split wide and behind the line and Watson was in the slot and on the line. He signaled to Wharton to make sure he stayed back, leaving Watson as the right end and eligible. So in the backfield besides Wharton was Webb, a running back whose number I couldn't see behind him, and Robertson slotted left. All well and good. Seven on the line and four in the backfield. Then came the trickery. Cochran shifted from left end all the way to the slot position at right end, taking the place of Watson, who moved back into the backfield. Cochran's move drew all the attention--would they throw the ball to the big guy--as it slyly uncovered Hinant, who was now the eligible left end. When the play started Cochran waved his hands, seeming to call for the ball, while Robertson angled from the left slot over the middle, drawing all the defenders there with him to the right and leaving Hinant unnoticed to slip into the left corner all by himself for the easy catch from Webb. BUT--Watson's shift into the backfield made him the fifth back--Webb, Wharton, Robertson, Watson and the other running back. And no one took Watson's place on the line. Cochran simply moved from one end to the other. Maybe Wharton was supposed to step up to the line on the far right, but if he did that I didn't see it. And no official seemed to notice this, and no one on the broadcast made any mention of it whatsoever. I know, I know--I must be crazy. Because if everyone else sees a thing one way and I see it differently I must be wrong. But that's the way I saw It!

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That was a sweet play. Just to clarify, are you saying that you couldn't see if Wharton stepped up on the far right, or you could see on the broadcast that he did not step up? It would be an easy (and correct) shift for the receiver to just step back up to the line when the formation changed. Would this have made Cochran covered and illegible? If so, he could still wave his hands -- just can't go downfield or get the ball. Pretty clever if it was all designed that way.

AeroBear;842749481 said:

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That was a sweet play. Just to clarify, are you saying that you couldn't see if Wharton stepped up on the far right, or you could see on the broadcast that he did not step up? It would be an easy (and correct) shift for the receiver to just step back up to the line when the formation changed. Would this have made Cochran covered and illegible? If so, he could still wave his hands -- just can't go downfield or get the ball. Pretty clever if it was all designed that way.

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Well I think he did not step up, but I'll have to look at it again later today to check. You're correct though. If he did step up, as I'm guessing he was supposed to, Cochran could do all the waving in the world and he would not be eligible. I do recall that he did not cross the line, so that if he had become ineligible he could not be flagged for being an ineligible receiver downfield.

uhh game over ... we won there were alot of flags some good some not right and some flags that dong make sense

they catching interference on Patrick in the 4th qtr ... maybe i dont know what the rule is but on punts the catcher has to wave fair catch did he ?

LibbBear;842749406 said:

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BUT--Watson's shift into the backfield made him the fifth back--Webb, Wharton, Robertson, Watson and the other running back. And no one took Watson's place on the line. Cochran simply moved from one end to the other. Maybe Wharton was supposed to step up to the line on the far right, but if he did that I didn't see it...

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You are correct sir! Wharton should have stepped up to the line, making Cochran ineligible, but that wouldn't matter.

Here's the screen cap:

AeroBear;842749481 said:

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That was a sweet play. Just to clarify, are you saying that you couldn't see if Wharton stepped up on the far right, or you could see on the broadcast that he did not step up? It would be an easy (and correct) shift for the receiver to just step back up to the line when the formation changed. Would this have made Cochran covered and illegible? If so, he could still wave his hands -- just can't go downfield or get the ball. Pretty clever if it was all designed that way.

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Ok just checked. When Cochran shifted to the right he immediately pointed to Wharton. Was he reminding Wharton to stop up to the line? If so, Wharton didn't get the message. He remained stationary two yards off the line until the ball was snapped. So yes for sure--five men in the backfield. At the snap, Cochran for his part stepped back into the backfield as he raised his arms deceptively calling for the ball, so that if he were ineligible, as I guess he was designed to be, he could not be an ineligible receiver downfield. By the way, I mention this not to suggest that Cal's victory was tainted or anything, just as a point of interest. Officials miss stuff all the time. I just found it fascinating that no one else seemed to notice this. Although maybe Helfrich (sp.?) did. There was a tight shot of him after the play wildly signaling for someone to come over to him--maybe an official or maybe just one of his players. In any case this was a beautifully, deceptively designed play. Consider, for instance, that Cal rarely even uses a tight end--so no one noticed Hinant tucked in there in a tackle position.

Another point. They used to make an announcement when someone with an interior lineman's number such as Cochran's 75 enters the game as an eligible receiver. I think he had to report to the official before the play so an announcement could be made. There was no such announcement. Is that still the rule? Even if so, it wouldn't have mattered because Cal had no intention of making him eligible. All in all, a wonderfully designed play that worked to perfection. And if Wharton had only stepped up to the line during the shift, it even would have been legal! Ha ha! Go Bears!!!

LibbBear;842749578 said:

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Ok just checked. When Cochran shifted to the right he immediately pointed to Wharton. Was he reminding Wharton to stop up to the line? If so, Wharton didn't get the message. He remained stationary two yards off the line until the ball was snapped.

Another point. They used to make an announcement when someone with an interior lineman's number such as Cochran's 75 enters the game as an eligible receiver. I think he had to report to the official before the play so an announcement could be made. There was no such announcement. Is that still the rule?

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Cochran wasn't pointing at Wharton, he was asking the line judge for confirmation that he was lined up on the line. Receivers do that often when they are lined up wide.

The left tackle that became eligible was wearing a receiver's number, that's why they didn't have to report to the ref.