So let's get this straight...

8,331 Views | 64 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by Go!Bears
tequila4kapp
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For as much as a **** show as some people think the transition was, Sonny Dykes regime was worse. This is the classic case of not liking change and uncertainty, of liking the devil you know more than the one you do not know.

I was hoping for the dream scenario too. I dread the idea of Kiesau. Nothing has been announced. Let's hold off on the hysteria until we see what transpires.
going4roses
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tequila4kapp;842793335 said:

For as much as a **** show as some people think the transition was, Sonny Dykes regime was worse. This is the classic case of not liking change and uncertainty, of liking the devil you know more than the one you do not know.

I was hoping for the dream scenario too. I dread the idea of Kiesau. Nothing has been announced. Let's hold off on the hysteria until we see what transpires.


You sure about that ? Other schools have 9 ish coaches recruiting and CAL?

I'll reserve Judgement(for now !!!) For the most part but
me from my personal (perspective) stand point I really can't see the light at the end of the tunnel.


Wish I could/have made some difference
BearlyCareAnymore
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heech;842793255 said:

Just responding to Cal89's point... stats aside, I don't think there was much dispute our offense was more than decent, almost good enough to compensate for our horrendously crappy defense. In any case, for those who didn't appreciate it, I guess they're happy we're flushing it down the toilet.

There is very much dispute. Our efficiency was mediocre. Looking at totals when you run a fast break offense is amateur hour. As is ripping a transition days after firing the coach and before the new coach is officially announced. As for "names" you are hearing, well, we were hearing Rivera and Spav, which not only didn't happen, but seems clear never were going to. This after our last basketball search had everybody and his brother named by insiders except for the guy who got the job and who it turned out was on our radar for weeks. Maybe it is time to realize that our inside info is lacking and wait to see what actually happens.

Wilcox + 9 guys off the street is already an improvement over last year's staff
heartofthebear
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If its Nick & Keisau, that could get me to renew.
going4roses
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Nick who cannon or ?
calfanz
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So...this is how bad it is. I am in the top 5% of all sunshine pumpers. I thought MW had a plan when he pulled this late season firing. Optimism had a brief appearance in my psyche.

Then no prompt hire.
No Tosh.
No Spav.

=no chance.

We will be back to the days of Holmoe...

At least with SD we could gloat with amazing catches, throws and the prolific offense.
Now we are going to be a $hit show of epically bad proportion.

Thank goodness for Cuonzo.
BearlyCareAnymore
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Cal89;842793260 said:

While I look at plenty of stats and efficiency metrics, it ultimately comes down to points - what decides the winners from losers. If a team chooses to run a buttload of plays, or not, is efficient or not (like yards per play), the bottom line when the clock is done moving is the production of points. We were nothing to write home about in conference games...


I agree with you, but I think insisting on points per game is a major flaw in your thinking. Points per possession is the relevant figure. If your offense gives the other team 2 more possessions on average, the other team will score more points. At one point late in the season, we had given up 13 more points per game on defense over last year and scored about the same. But if you factored in the increased possessions on both sides of the ball, over an average game we would have given up 8 more points on defense and scored 5 fewer on offense than last year. The strategy of playing fast and increasing possessions has a direct, easily measured impact on defense stats.

When you factor in # of possessions, our scoring offense plummeted down the rankings
okaydo
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calfanz;842793360 said:

So...this is how bad it is. I am in the top 5% of all sunshine pumpers. I thought MW had a plan when he pulled this late season firing. Optimism had a brief appearance in my psyche.

Then no prompt hire.
No Tosh.
No Spav.

=no chance.

We will be back to the days of Holmoe...

At least with SD we could gloat with amazing catches, throws and the prolific offense.
Now we are going to be a $hit show of epically bad proportion.

Thank goodness for Cuonzo.


The coaching search lasted 4 days. I know it would've been great to have a press conference for the new coach Monday morning. But even if it was Chip Kelly, you would still have to have a semblance of a "search."
FloriDreaming
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Cal89;842793254 said:

In conference games is likely the difference. Need to look at the games that most matter against the same competition. We were a very distant 3rd this year at 33.8 PPG. Last year 6th best...


With Kiseau Cal will be dead last.

No-offense football sucks to watch. I hate soccer games.

As a Rams fan I can tell you boring offense + good defense = find something else to do on Saturdays. Even when the Rams won they were insufferable to watch.

Kiseau = Buh but with less loyalty.
FloriDreaming
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OaktownBear;842793361 said:

I agree with you, but I think insisting on points per game is a major flaw in your thinking. Points per possession is the relevant figure. If your offense gives the other team 2 more possessions on average, the other team will score more points. At one point late in the season, we had given up 13 more points per game on defense over last year and scored about the same. But if you factored in the increased possessions on both sides of the ball, over an average game we would have given up 8 more points on defense and scored 5 fewer on offense than last year. The strategy of playing fast and increasing possessions has a direct, easily measured impact on defense stats.

When you factor in # of possessions, our scoring offense plummeted down the rankings


Yes points per possession is a great metric. What was Kiseau's points per possession at Fresno State? .000003?? Hey, let's bring him in for an interview!
txwharfrat
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Let's hope your idea of "big boy football" doesn't equal 1950's style offense like so many others in this board are hoping for. I couldn't stand to see us go back to 2009-2012 style Tedford offense.... that was horrific. In any case if we have a dramatic change to offense and don't have the bodies on D - then 2017 is looking like 2013 all over again....
txwharfrat
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heartofthebear;842793350 said:

If its Nick & Keisau, that could get me to renew.


Kidding, right? No sarcasm emoji?
heech
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txwharfrat;842793395 said:

Let's hope your idea of "big boy football" doesn't equal 1950's style offense like so many others in this board are hoping for. I couldn't stand to see us go back to 2009-2012 style Tedford offense.... that was horrific. In any case if we have a dramatic change to offense and don't have the bodies on D - then 2017 is looking like 2013 all over again....

2009-2012 offense? Man. I'm sure many of us are thinking 2001 offense right now.
txwharfrat
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heech;842793419 said:

2009-2012 offense? Man. I'm sure many of us are thinking 2001 offense right now.


Yep ... that would be worse..
ibhoagiesforlife
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Cal89;842793216 said:

I feel the anger and frustration, but what unit was top 10 in the country?


Pointing out a top 10 offense while ending up in the bottom tier of the conference is quite the moral victory. I'd rather place last in offense and first in the conference.
BearlyCareAnymore
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heech;842793214 said:

We just paid $6mm to completely dismantle the unit that was top-10 in the country, and replace with a first-time HC. And the potential coordinator names I'm hearing now are Hardy Nickerson and Eric Kiesau? In the mean time, every program in our conference is upgrading their coaching staff + recruiting their brains out, while we a) probably don't have any coaches on the road, b) have no connections to the recruits previously committed.

Fuc!ing awesome. If we alums remotely cared about this program, we would be calling for Mike Williams' head on a platter. I'm done. I'm *not* renewing.


So let ME get this straight. You support Dykes through the worst season in Cal history, through 4 straight losing seasons in conference, and through 4 putrid performances against Stanford and you can't even support the new guy until his press conference?

Some of you need to decide whether you are Sonny fans or Cal fans.
upsetof86
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txwharfrat;842793422 said:

Yep ... that would be worse..


Agree with the frustrations re the way the shift has been made and likewise this "let's get the band back together" talk regarding coaching choices. At the end of the day all the best and longest running programs were built on great ownership of the business/process the folks who select the coaches and build identities and cultures. All I hear from the AD is a "wish" or "belief" that we can do with football what we have done with say rugby or swimming. I mean come on really? This is a McKinsey kind of problem we have and I'm not kidding. Where is the foundational understanding of the landscape and who we are and therefore the strategies we should employ? And stick to them while measuring progress. Silver bullet get rich quick schemes aren't sustainable as we can see. We will lose many sports (we should have a long time ago) and we risk getting exiled to Ivy League leagues i.e. Bye bye legacies.
Cal89
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OaktownBear;842793361 said:

I agree with you, but I think insisting on points per game is a major flaw in your thinking. Points per possession is the relevant figure. If your offense gives the other team 2 more possessions on average, the other team will score more points. At one point late in the season, we had given up 13 more points per game on defense over last year and scored about the same. But if you factored in the increased possessions on both sides of the ball, over an average game we would have given up 8 more points on defense and scored 5 fewer on offense than last year. The strategy of playing fast and increasing possessions has a direct, easily measured impact on defense stats.

When you factor in # of possessions, our scoring offense plummeted down the rankings


I like points per possession too, often called points per drive. I also found points per offensive play very interesting. I'll just say that I've been knee-deep in this stuff many times, including FEI, S&P ratings, dropping all this stuff into spreadsheets, sorting, filtering, running pivot tables. I keep coming back to PPG, because after all that work, it gets right to the point, with very minimal difference when compared to efficiency approaches. Yes, I know it is simplistic, and it is, but simple is good and desirable when it works well. If a team is scoring 40, 50+ a game, they are quite likely pretty dang efficient too in our clock-controlled game...

The good news here, for the sake of addressing this thread, the OP's concern - we are not losing some powerhouse offense. That is the case whether looking at SD's body of work at Cal, or even last year, focusing more on the Spav delta. PPG or yards per play were, as stated earlier, rather average over SD's years here (about 5th best in the conference). We improved PPG from 2015 by a little, but with a massive jump in plays per game. In 2015 we were like the 6th fastest paced offense in the Pac-12. We slowed down ever year under TF, which was totally contrary to what he preached to us in the beginning, in his seminars. It was evident to me that he was tinkering with the System to make it run right, rather un-System like, and concerning. From the middle of the Pac in plays per game in 2015 to the most in FBS in 2016 (I think the most, if not, very close), is a damn big difference. We ended-up producing 2 more points a game within conference...

Spav recruits well, is well-liked and might indeed go-on to greatness. We now need to a new OC, and others on the staff. We never got the 52 PPG experienced at La Tech in 2012. Not even 42. What we averaged much closer to 32 PPG, and in conference games in the SD era, a little over 30 PPG, which year-in and year-out is average Pac-12 scoring... As I've said many times, we never got that prolific offense that led the nation in scoring. What did translate to Cal beautifully was SD's nation leading worst D!

I continue to rejoice that we at least have a fresh start now...
heartofthebear
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txwharfrat;842793411 said:

Kidding, right? No sarcasm emoji?


Not kidding
Never had a majority point of view.
At least I don't slobber over guys like Chip and Tosh, who are not going to recruit academically at all.
heech
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heartofthebear;842793459 said:

Not kidding
Never had a majority point of view.
At least I don't slobber over guys like Chip and Tosh, who are not going to recruit academically at all.

You know who could recruit academically really well? Me. Root for me, I promise you national merit scholars at every position.
NYCGOBEARS
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heartofthebear;842793459 said:

Not kidding
Never had a majority point of view.
At least I don't slobber over guys like Chip and Tosh, who are not going to recruit academically at all.

And Sonny had a great record of recruiting academically minded players where exactly?
socaliganbear
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Oh sh*t... we're about to be Oregon State. 2015/16 Oregon State. A great Defensive coach without great defensive talent and a meh offense.
NYCGOBEARS
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socaliganbear;842793472 said:

Oh sh*t... we're about to be Oregon State. 2015/16 Oregon State. A great Defensive coach without great defensive talent and a meh offense.

Pretty much.
oskigobears
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All you negabears need to take a long weekend away, and come back on Tuesday ready to support our new coach and the future.
The sun is out.
Stop whining..
GO BEARS!
chazzed
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Those in charge set the program back more than it needed to be set, that's for sure. Now, we can only hope that the new coaching staff works out.
heech
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oskigobears;842793484 said:

All you negabears need to take a long weekend away, and come back on Tuesday ready to support our new coach and the future.
The sun is out.
Stop whining..
GO BEARS!

In other words, stop being so darn objective. Just enjoy the losses.
FloriDreaming
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OaktownBear;842793428 said:

So let ME get this straight. You support Dykes through the worst season in Cal history, through 4 straight losing seasons in conference, and through 4 putrid performances against Stanford and you can't even support the new guy until his press conference?

Some of you need to decide whether you are Sonny fans or Cal fans.


Baloney. I'm a Cal fan. Not a Sonny fan, not a Tedford fan, not a Wilcox fan. I can support a team while being skeptical of the new coach and critical of our AD, who has proven himself unfit for the job IMO. Those aren't contradictory positions.

Sonny did a lot of good things, as did Sandy. And they both did a lot of bad things too. In the end Sonny fired himself with his poor judgment and Williams' firing him wasn't a genius stroke but an obvious move that too ok too long.

I can support the upgrade in offense and oppose a direction toward boring Fisher Rams offense while supporting the team. And I can be optimistic about the defense while opposing the hiring of Tosh. None of those positions makes me a bad fan or unfaithful supporter. In fact just the opposite, coaches and ADs need checks and balances from the fan and alumni base.

I find it insulting that the same person who attacked anyone who said anything good about Sonny (and he's done a LOT of good and yes, turned the program around from where it was when he inherited it, just not as much as fans would have liked) now attacks anyone who doesn't blindly follow Williams and Wilcox, despite some very strong evidence that these two don't fully have their acts together, to put it mildly.

So objectivity for thee, mindless pumping for me, is that your new motto?
Go!Bears
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Uthaithani;842793519 said:

Baloney. I'm a Cal fan. Not a Sonny fan, not a Tedford fan, not a Wilcox fan. I can support a team while being skeptical of the new coach and critical of our AD, who has proven himself unfit for the job IMO. Those aren't contradictory positions.

Sonny did a lot of good things, as did Sandy. And they both did a lot of bad things too. In the end Sonny fired himself with his poor judgment and Williams' firing him wasn't a genius stroke but an obvious move that too ok too long.

I can support the upgrade in offense and oppose a direction toward boring Fisher Rams offense while supporting the team. And I can be optimistic about the defense while opposing the hiring of Tosh. None of those positions makes me a bad fan or unfaithful supporter. In fact just the opposite, coaches and ADs need checks and balances from the fan and alumni base.

I find it insulting that the same person who attacked anyone who said anything good about Sonny (and he's done a LOT of good and yes, turned the program around from where it was when he inherited it, just not as much as fans would have liked) now attacks anyone who doesn't blindly follow Williams and Wilcox, despite some very strong evidence that these two don't fully have their acts together, to put it mildly.

So objectivity for thee, mindless pumping for me, is that your new motto?


This is kinda where I am. I will be there, cheering as loud as possible and hoping Wilcox kills it - but I'm sorry, this does not look like progress. I hope I am wrong, but past experience is not encouraging.
going4roses
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oskigobears;842793484 said:

All you negabears need to take a long weekend away, and come back on Tuesday ready to support our new coach and the future.
The sun is out.
Stop whining..
GO BEARS!



No

Did I go from sunshine pumper to negra in 7-10 days ?

Did that really just happen?

Oh boy
going4roses
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Sun is out but it's still pretty chilly
Go!Bears
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going4roses;842793547 said:

No

Did I go from sunshine pumper to negra in 7-10 days ?

Did that really just happen?

Oh boy


Yeah, weird how that happened.
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