Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

You should go ask Blockchain at Berkeley.

cubzwin;842841781 said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

My opinion only:

Bitcoin = gold

Other popular alt-coins = silver

I think that any useful features other coins can come up with can eventually be used with Bitcoin if deemed necessary. For example, for the longest time, the argument for Ethereum over Bitcoin was that Ethereum was able to implement "smart contracts" because it is a more sophisticated programming language than Bitcoin. However, Rootstock (a layer-2 solution on top of the Bitcoin protocol) is set to release soon that enables smart contracts pegged to the Bitcoin blockchain and is also 100% compatible with anything made for Ethereum. With Bitcoin's current size and scope, why would developers who made apps for Ethereum NOT do the same on Bitcoin, especially since it requires no work to port over?

I think the same thing will happen for most features, whether it be related to anonymity, property rights, network scaling, etc.

I personally agree with much of what is said in this article: https://medium.com/@jimmysong/why-bitcoin-is-different-than-other-cryptocurrencies-e16b17d48b94

Slightly OT:

I know bitcoin takes forever to mine, but I run my own business and have 30+ workstations plus a few servers that do nothing 14+ hours per day. My building also is also fully solar powered so I don't think the excess power usage will really cost me anything. I figure that I have unlimited PC computing power available for many years to come so I might as well make use of these assets anyway I can.

Can anyone recommend a good guide, on online site, or starting point for setting up a small networked bitcoin mining operation?

Or is it worthless for me to even try mining as my computing horsepower is nominal in comparison to some of the mining operations I have read about?

Interesting read - thanks!

Grimnebulin;842841885 said:

---

Slightly OT:

I know bitcoin takes forever to mine, but I run my own business and have 30+ workstations plus a few servers that do nothing 14+ hours per day. My building also is also fully solar powered so I don't think the excess power usage will really cost me anything. I figure that I have unlimited PC computing power available for many years to come so I might as well make use of these assets anyway I can.

Can anyone recommend a good guide, on online site, or starting point for setting up a small networked bitcoin mining operation?

Or is it worthless for me to even try mining as my computing horsepower is nominal in comparison to some of the mining operations I have read about?

---

It's worthless since the advent of Application Specific Integrated Cirtcuits for decoding the encryption algorithm Bitcoin uses. You may be able to make some money processing transaction on the block chain although I've never looked into how that works. If you do decide to go into it you'd want to join a mining pool and just get fractional bounties when your pool gets the correct key. Your work machines probably don't even have powerful GPUs which beat up on CPU mining prior to the introduction of ASICs. The vector processing and multiple threading in GPUs was a step up for decoding SHA.

-kap

I have a hard time seeing how the US will continue to allow unregulated cryptocurrencies indefinitely, although I concede that this is not an area I have looked into very closely. The fact that it's so easy to have your bitcoin misappropriated and that it's more or less impossible for US law enforcement to do anything about it, combined with the prominence these currencies play in illegal activities, I would be very concerned. I also don't think currency arbitrage combined with speculation is a smart way for me to allocate investment resources unless I am on the good side of asymmetric information. On the other hand, a US market may not be necessary for the stability of the currency value in the medium to long run and you could always exchange bitcoin for pesos and pesos for dollars, or what have you. Nonetheless I wouldn't want to be the one holding six or seven figures worth of bitcoin when the music stops playing.

Grimnebulin;842841885 said:

---

Slightly OT:

I know bitcoin takes forever to mine, but I run my own business and have 30+ workstations plus a few servers that do nothing 14+ hours per day. My building also is also fully solar powered so I don't think the excess power usage will really cost me anything. I figure that I have unlimited PC computing power available for many years to come so I might as well make use of these assets anyway I can.

Can anyone recommend a good guide, on online site, or starting point for setting up a small networked bitcoin mining operation?

Or is it worthless for me to even try mining as my computing horsepower is nominal in comparison to some of the mining operations I have read about?

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

kaplanfx;842841918 said:

---

It's worthless since the advent of Application Specific Integrated Cirtcuits for decoding the encryption algorithm Bitcoin uses. You may be able to make some money processing transaction on the block chain although I've never looked into how that works. If you do decide to go into it you'd want to join a mining pool and just get fractional bounties when your pool gets the correct key. Your work machines probably don't even have powerful GPUs which beat up on CPU mining prior to the introduction of ASICs. The vector processing and multiple threading in GPUs was a step up for decoding SHA.

-kap

---

Kinda what I thought....waste of time for me to pursue. Thanks!

GivemTheAxe;842842418 said:

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

LOL :rimshot

GivemTheAxe;842842418 said:

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

Respectfully disagree. Many actually see it as the world's first sound money, unable to be manipulated or inflated into oblivion at the whims of any entity such as a government or central bank. If what gives fiat currencies like the dollar, euro, etc. value is it being backed by a government, Japan recently passed legislation that recognizes Bitcoin as legal tender. Russia, India and Australia are the next most likely regions to follow suit. I would argue that the more governments that recognize it, the more it snowballs into eventual worldwide recognition as fear of missing out increases. Admittedly, it's still early times for Bitcoin though.

The person who plays banker is one's own self. That's the point of Bitcoin,...there's no need to trust any third party for anything. You don't have to trust a bank to grant you access to your funds, and you don't have to trust a government to NOT irresponsibly inflate and steal your purchasing power over time. I can settle a bar tab for a friend in Korea from across the world while enjoying a coffee at Strada, using the most cryptographically-secured payment network in the world, in just a few seconds, without having to trust a series of banks to not overcharge me unnecessary fees or unfair exchange rates along the way and then finally depositing funds after waiting for days into a foreign bank I'd then also have to trust. If you keep your private keys safe, your Bitcoins are safe and controlled only by you. If you lose your private keys, you lose your Bitcoins. In this way, it's no different than cash. Yes there will services (e.g. a Bitcoin "bank") that can manage the storage and spending of your Bitcoins for you just like online banking. Many people will be okay with trusting a third party for this already-familiar service. However, if one wanted to, one doesn't have to use them. It's still a choice, and the choice to control your own money is still there for everybody.

edwinbear;842842533 said:

---

Respectfully disagree. Many actually see it as the world's first sound money, unable to be manipulated or inflated into oblivion at the whims of any entity such as a government or central bank. If what gives fiat currencies like the dollar, euro, etc. value is it being backed by a government, Japan recently passed legislation that recognizes Bitcoin as legal tender. Russia, India and Australia are the next most likely regions to follow suit. I would argue that the more governments that recognize it, the more it snowballs into eventual worldwide recognition as fear of missing out increases. Admittedly, it's still early times for Bitcoin though.

The person who plays banker is one's own self. That's the point of Bitcoin,...there's no need to trust any third party for anything. You don't have to trust a bank to grant you access to your funds, and you don't have to trust a government to NOT irresponsibly inflate and steal your purchasing power over time. I can settle a bar tab for a friend in Korea from across the world while enjoying a coffee at Strada, using the most cryptographically-secured payment network in the world, in just a few seconds, without having to trust a series of banks to not overcharge me unnecessary fees or unfair exchange rates along the way and then finally depositing funds after waiting for days into a foreign bank I'd then also have to trust. If you keep your private keys safe, your Bitcoins are safe and controlled only by you. If you lose your private keys, you lose your Bitcoins. In this way, it's no different than cash. Yes there will services (e.g. a Bitcoin "bank") that can manage the storage and spending of your Bitcoins for you just like online banking. Many people will be okay with trusting a third party for this already-familiar service. However, if one wanted to, one doesn't have to use them. It's still a choice, and the choice to control your own money is still there for everybody.

---

Sure...if you say so Mr Madoff.

GivemTheAxe is completely clueless. Hopefully the majority of people think like him which would be a bullish indicator. When the crypto skeptics like GTA are singing the praises of cryptocurrencies it will be time to exit the trade.

An interesting City University in London analysis on different cryptocurrencies...link to full study at end of story.
Basically Bitcoin is losing market share to other currencies but should stay at or above 50% of the market until 2025.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607947/the-cryptocurrency-market-is-growing-exponentially/

cubzwin;842842540 said:

---

GivemTheAxe is completely clueless. Hopefully the majority of people think like him which would be a bullish indicator. When the crypto skeptics like GTA are singing the praises of cryptocurrencies it will be time to exit the trade.

---

How about if I post a big Mea Culpa on this board when I am converted to Bitcoin so you will know when it's time to get out.
That should be just after I forsake being a Cal fan and begin to find amusing the Stanfurd Band's "zany antics". (Sorry can't post the "sarcasm" emoji)

When I posted about getting into Bitcoin in May it was selling for $2300. Now it is over $7500. GivemTheAxe was comparing Bitcoin proponents to Bernie Madoff and saying anyone who bought Bitcoin was the object of P.T. Barnum's scorn. Over a 300% gain. Who's a sucker now ax in the neck?

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ywbbpm/bitcoin-mining-electricity-consumption-ethereum-energy-climate-change

Quote:

---

An index from cryptocurrency analyst Alex de Vries, aka Digiconomist, estimates that with prices the way they are now, it would be profitable for Bitcoin miners to burn through over 24 terawatt-hours of electricity annually as they compete to solve increasingly difficult cryptographic puzzles to "mine" more Bitcoins. That's about as much as Nigeria, a country of 186 million people, uses in a year.

This averages out to a shocking 215 kilowatt-hours (KWh) of juice used by miners for each Bitcoin transaction (there are currently about 300,000 transactions per day). Since the average American household consumes 901 KWh per month, each Bitcoin transfer represents enough energy to run a comfortable house, and everything in it, for nearly a week. On a larger scale, De Vries' index shows that bitcoin miners worldwide could be using enough electricity to at any given time to power about 2.26 million American homes.

---

Seems wasteful to me. But I'm probably missing something.

cubzwin said:

---

When I posted about getting into Bitcoin in May it was selling for $2300. Now it is over $7500. GivemTheAxe was comparing Bitcoin proponents to Bernie Madoff and saying anyone who bought Bitcoin was the object of P.T. Barnum's scorn. Over a 300% gain. Who's a sucker now ax in the neck?

---

As unit said, short term is one thing. Get out before the music stops unless you are in the market for sex slaves and illegal contraband. Many made a killing in 2000 on internet dog toy sites and lost it all by 2002 if they didn't get out. Those that made out did so by anticipating the behavior of those who had less knowledge

Governments will not allow currency they can't control especially as its use by criminal enterprises grows.

https://e-coin.com/

cubzwin said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

What is your expected future free cash flow from this investment and what is it based on?

Also, what is the expected future free cash flow of the asset?

edwinbear said:

---

GivemTheAxe;842842418 said:

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

Respectfully disagree. Many actually see it as the world's first sound money, unable to be manipulated or inflated into oblivion at the whims of any entity such as a government or central bank. If what gives fiat currencies like the dollar, euro, etc. value is it being backed by a government, Japan recently passed legislation that recognizes Bitcoin as legal tender. Russia, India and Australia are the next most likely regions to follow suit. I would argue that the more governments that recognize it, the more it snowballs into eventual worldwide recognition as fear of missing out increases. Admittedly, it's still early times for Bitcoin though.

The person who plays banker is one's own self. That's the point of Bitcoin,...there's no need to trust any third party for anything. You don't have to trust a bank to grant you access to your funds, and you don't have to trust a government to NOT irresponsibly inflate and steal your purchasing power over time. I can settle a bar tab for a friend in Korea from across the world while enjoying a coffee at Strada, using the most cryptographically-secured payment network in the world, in just a few seconds, without having to trust a series of banks to not overcharge me unnecessary fees or unfair exchange rates along the way and then finally depositing funds after waiting for days into a foreign bank I'd then also have to trust. If you keep your private keys safe, your Bitcoins are safe and controlled only by you. If you lose your private keys, you lose your Bitcoins. In this way, it's no different than cash. Yes there will services (e.g. a Bitcoin "bank") that can manage the storage and spending of your Bitcoins for you just like online banking. Many people will be okay with trusting a third party for this already-familiar service. However, if one wanted to, one doesn't have to use them. It's still a choice, and the choice to control your own money is still there for everybody.

---

You do have to trust that your stored bitcoins aren't stolen. And since the biggest incentive to use bitcoins exists for criminals and tax dodgers I'd say you are swimming with sharks. But please, let us know how it works out for you.

I'll add that the flexibility of fiat currencies is precisely why they are superior. If an economy should be growing at a high rate, why should it be money constrained? Money supply should grow (and recede) with the economy, not based on the whims of an algorithm or mining innovations.

Slight inflation is good for the middle class because it erodes the value of debt making the average person wealthier and the average bank less wealthy. Sustained inflation is nearly always matched by changes in wage growth, so inflation is not the boogeyman so many people are trained by banks to think of it.

Query for the adherents, the hope or expectation of bitcoin is that it will replace the dollar and eventually all currencies? If not over a decade maybe over a lifetime? Or is it speculation(but not really cause we know it's just going up and the anti-bitcoiners are slow-to-the-party-dollar chumps)?

cubzwin said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

Does anyone know how to assess the intrinsic value of a bitcoin? How do you know what the value should be and whether it is overvalued? You can't look at discounted cash flow, EBIT / EBITDA, etc. to see if the multiple is too high. All you can do is see what someone is willing to pay and try to connect roughly on some tangential macroeconomic conditions, right? How is this not gambling?

burritos said:

---

Query for the adherents, the hope or expectation of bitcoin is that it will replace the dollar and eventually all currencies? If not over a decade maybe over a lifetime? Or is it speculation(but not really cause we know it's just going up and the anti-bitcoiners are slow-to-the-party-dollar chumps)?

---

That's not going to happen. EVER. Why would the government give up control over something so critical as currency when they can make laws to make illegal the bitcoins? You think we will give up the Fed, the interest rate, sanctions, and all the treasury and Fed functions?

dajo9 said:

---

cubzwin said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

What is your expected future free cash flow from this investment and what is it based on?

Also, what is the expected future free cash flow of the asset?

---

Since there is no cash flow from operations and capital expenditures, there is no free cash flow or free cash flow to net income conversion. I assume that was your point and that there is no real way to value bitcoin. All you can do is hope that someone wants to pay more for your bitcoin that you paid.

edwinbear said:

---

GivemTheAxe;842842418 said:

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

Respectfully disagree. Many actually see it as the world's first sound money, unable to be manipulated or inflated into oblivion at the whims of any entity such as a government or central bank. If what gives fiat currencies like the dollar, euro, etc. value is it being backed by a government, Japan recently passed legislation that recognizes Bitcoin as legal tender. Russia, India and Australia are the next most likely regions to follow suit. I would argue that the more governments that recognize it, the more it snowballs into eventual worldwide recognition as fear of missing out increases. Admittedly, it's still early times for Bitcoin though.

The person who plays banker is one's own self. That's the point of Bitcoin,...there's no need to trust any third party for anything. You don't have to trust a bank to grant you access to your funds, and you don't have to trust a government to NOT irresponsibly inflate and steal your purchasing power over time. I can settle a bar tab for a friend in Korea from across the world while enjoying a coffee at Strada, using the most cryptographically-secured payment network in the world, in just a few seconds, without having to trust a series of banks to not overcharge me unnecessary fees or unfair exchange rates along the way and then finally depositing funds after waiting for days into a foreign bank I'd then also have to trust. If you keep your private keys safe, your Bitcoins are safe and controlled only by you. If you lose your private keys, you lose your Bitcoins. In this way, it's no different than cash. Yes there will services (e.g. a Bitcoin "bank") that can manage the storage and spending of your Bitcoins for you just like online banking. Many people will be okay with trusting a third party for this already-familiar service. However, if one wanted to, one doesn't have to use them. It's still a choice, and the choice to control your own money is still there for everybody.

---

Fair enough...That explains why crypto currency could become the major world currency in the future...

It doesnt explain why you would "invest" in the idea, and especially not an individual flavor.

Tech in the '90s was a fad. It wasnt creating additional value. People had the same arguments in investing in it that they do now with crypto. People who backed it said it was world changing, the people who dismissed the boom said it was just bull**** zero value add speculation.

Right now Bitcoin is the big boy. Is Bitcoin the Pets.com or Amazon.com? There are literally 500 other crypto options. What is the currency that emerges? Because right now you cant use "crypto" to do anything. You can use a flavor (like bitcoin) of crypto to make a transaction if that place accepts that flavor.

So what is the play? Go with the popular one that is absurdly inflated? The one where what you used to buy a pizza yesterday would buy you a house today? That seems like an insanely risky investment.

And if the goal is currency, why are you "investing" in currency now? Do you also invest in government backed currencies heavily or is this one special? And if it is special, why? Because it is showing geometric value changes? Why would it act like that if it is the stable currency you think it is? They two dont pass a simple sanity check. The very fact that it is growing so fast makes it unstable, breaking the idea that anyone will touch it as an actual currency.



I mean, not even touching the downsides to using a fixed supply of money - not even touching the problems of crypto as a currency... Speculation in it is absurdly risky. It is probably the most risky "investment" possible. Are the potential gains worth it?

The only people I know who think so are completely financially illiterate.






Just as a quick sanity check: What percentage of people you know are using bitcoin to buy something? Everyone (100%) I know is holding it, because throwing it away on an exchange of goods or services doesnt make sense.

dajo9 said:

---

It's fun when calbear93 and I agree on something

---

I disagree.

GivemTheAxe said:

---

Grimnebulin;842841885 said:

---

Slightly OT:

I know bitcoin takes forever to mine, but I run my own business and have 30+ workstations plus a few servers that do nothing 14+ hours per day. My building also is also fully solar powered so I don't think the excess power usage will really cost me anything. I figure that I have unlimited PC computing power available for many years to come so I might as well make use of these assets anyway I can.

Can anyone recommend a good guide, on online site, or starting point for setting up a small networked bitcoin mining operation?

Or is it worthless for me to even try mining as my computing horsepower is nominal in comparison to some of the mining operations I have read about?

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

Although Gold and Silver do have productive independent value separate from their value as investments, one imagines that the lion's share of their market value depends exactly on the degree of agreement as to that value. But couldn't the same could be said about any currency?

I'm in Ethereum and Litecoin, but I have been focusing on Blockchain technology rather than crypto currency.

dajo9 said:

---

edwinbear said:

---

GivemTheAxe;842842418 said:

---

Gold = gold
Silver = silver
Bitcoin = Monopoly money. (Worth something only as long as everyone agrees to play by the same rules. And only as secure as the person trusted to play banker.). If you want to play. Go ahead. But remember what PT Barnum said.

---

Respectfully disagree. Many actually see it as the world's first sound money, unable to be manipulated or inflated into oblivion at the whims of any entity such as a government or central bank. If what gives fiat currencies like the dollar, euro, etc. value is it being backed by a government, Japan recently passed legislation that recognizes Bitcoin as legal tender. Russia, India and Australia are the next most likely regions to follow suit. I would argue that the more governments that recognize it, the more it snowballs into eventual worldwide recognition as fear of missing out increases. Admittedly, it's still early times for Bitcoin though.

The person who plays banker is one's own self. That's the point of Bitcoin,...there's no need to trust any third party for anything. You don't have to trust a bank to grant you access to your funds, and you don't have to trust a government to NOT irresponsibly inflate and steal your purchasing power over time. I can settle a bar tab for a friend in Korea from across the world while enjoying a coffee at Strada, using the most cryptographically-secured payment network in the world, in just a few seconds, without having to trust a series of banks to not overcharge me unnecessary fees or unfair exchange rates along the way and then finally depositing funds after waiting for days into a foreign bank I'd then also have to trust. If you keep your private keys safe, your Bitcoins are safe and controlled only by you. If you lose your private keys, you lose your Bitcoins. In this way, it's no different than cash. Yes there will services (e.g. a Bitcoin "bank") that can manage the storage and spending of your Bitcoins for you just like online banking. Many people will be okay with trusting a third party for this already-familiar service. However, if one wanted to, one doesn't have to use them. It's still a choice, and the choice to control your own money is still there for everybody.

---

You do have to trust that your stored bitcoins aren't stolen. And since the biggest incentive to use bitcoins exists for criminals and tax dodgers I'd say you are swimming with sharks. But please, let us know how it works out for you.

I'll add that the flexibility of fiat currencies is precisely why they are superior. If an economy should be growing at a high rate, why should it be money constrained? Money supply should grow (and recede) with the economy, not based on the whims of an algorithm or mining innovations.

Slight inflation is good for the middle class because it erodes the value of debt making the average person wealthier and the average bank less wealthy. Sustained inflation is nearly always matched by changes in wage growth, so inflation is not the boogeyman so many people are trained by banks to think of it.

---

I think what you said makes sense. My argument, however, is that we can't TRUST those who steward our money supply to make good, fair decisions that keep money supply, inflation, etc. in line with your "should happens." I'd also argue that what you said is from a very US-centric perspective, but the US is not the world. If you ask people from Venezuela or Zimbabwe whether they'd rather keep their wealth in the Bolivar or Bitcoin, I think you'd get much different answers from someone living in the US. As Americans, we don't really FEEL the negative aspects of government/money as much as others do around the world, and so we're more prone to automatically poo-pooing something like Bitcoin. At the end of the day, however, Bitcoin is bigger than the US alone. My prediction is that over time, more countries around the world will begin experimenting/collecting/using Bitcoin creating a domino-effect that will either force the US to participate or be left out. For example, what if a constantly sanctioned country like Iran suddenly decides "screw this" and starts accepting Bitcoin in payment for oil? Doesn't really take much in my opinion,...but I guess time will tell.

Also, despite what many people think, Bitcoin is NOT anonymous, so using it for tax dodging or drugs is actually not a very smart thing to do, unless you really know how to acquire/use Bitcoin in a way that keeps you anonymous, which is difficult and many people don't. And it's not like if Bitcoin didn't exist all tax dodging and drug trading would cease. The US Dollar has been facilitating those trades for long, long before Bitcoin ever existed. Bitcoin would actually keep things more transparent and prevent the elites from hiding wealth in off-shore institutions around the world.

"My argument, however, is that we can't TRUST those who steward our money supply to make good, fair decisions that keep money supply, inflation, etc. in line with your "should happens."

LOL. The modern monetary system has worked out REMARKABLY well for the US. I mean remarkably if you look at the past 70 years in the context of the prior copntext of 400+ years of capitalism. Central banks have their problems but they have done a remarkably good job of stewardship. You should read up on 19th century panics to see what happens when you don't have central banks controlling a monetary system. You could read the current BitCoin Bubble as the past as prologue.

socaltownie said:

---

"My argument, however, is that we can't TRUST those who steward our money supply to make good, fair decisions that keep money supply, inflation, etc. in line with your "should happens."

LOL. The modern monetary system has worked out REMARKABLY well for the US. I mean remarkably if you look at the past 70 years in the context of the prior copntext of 400+ years of capitalism. Central banks have their problems but they have done a remarkably good job of stewardship. You should read up on 19th century panics to see what happens when you don't have central banks controlling a monetary system. You could read the current BitCoin Bubble as the past as prologue.

---

Like I said, the world is much, much bigger than the US, and there are tons of examples of governments irresponsibly running their economy and currency into the ground. Just because the US has been much less affected relative to others (thus far) doesn't mean Bitcoin wouldn't still be useful for the billions of non-Americans around the world.

dajo9 said:

---

cubzwin said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

What is your expected future free cash flow from this investment and what is it based on?

Also, what is the expected future free cash flow of the asset?

---

The same as gold's

edwinbear said:

---

dajo9 said:

---

cubzwin said:

---

Putting my toe in the water finally. Maybe I'll get a basket of different currencies to diversify risk.

https://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2017/05/25/scorching-hot-bitcoin-drops-300-in-an-hour-and-still-rises-on-the-day/

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/ethereum-price-bitcoin-rally.html

---

What is your expected future free cash flow from this investment and what is it based on?

Also, what is the expected future free cash flow of the asset?

---

The same as gold's

---

Gold - another investment you won't find in my portfolio