Stadium + debt, etc: What SHOULD we have done?

10,117 Views | 109 Replies | Last: 8 yr ago by dajo9
Big C
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What SHOULD we have done, regarding the Memorial Stadium remodel/retrofit?

Another hit piece in "that newspaper" yesterday, discussing how Cal sports is being strangled by the annual deficit, and opining that we went way too luxe with the amenities and performance center...

I don't claim great expertise on this subject, but my take is that we did what we needed to do, but that we were just really unlucky to have it coincide with the Great Recession and a decade-long downturn in the football program.

Anybody have another take? Could it have been financed better?

We needed to do the retrofit and we needed to upgrade the facilities. It just had to be done and I'm glad we kept the same location. Okay, so the new facilities haven't exactly been the recruiting panacea we had hoped, but I'm pretty sure that having crap facilities (maybe even mediocre ones) are a recruiting negative.

My only "solution" is to get the football team winning again, have the University absorb some of the debt somehow and maybe lobby to be allowed to have more non-Cal events at CMS.

What's your best idea?

Go Bears!
71Bear
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Wifesafurd has written extensively on this subject, particularly as it pertains to the bonding issue. There have been a number of big mistakes made by the University that have led to the mess.

The answer today is place the burden for the seismic repair costs on the University and require the AD to pay the balance. It is not a perfect solution but it is the "right thing to do". How to pay the debt once that transaction has been finalized? A combination of increasing revenue streams and cutting several men's sports.
Strykur
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Get some fucking donors to pay up and give them whatever the hell they want.
Bobodeluxe
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Many here laughingly referred to Stanford's new stadium as Circus Minimus. Who is laughing now? We could have built the same stadium, at about twice the price, on the Edward's footprint. Two blocks from BART. WHAT COULD GO WRONG? No, we had Teddy, and we would be "winning so much, we would get tired of winning." Well, now we are totally, and completely, screwed.
bear2034
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Bobodeluxe;842863927 said:

Many here laughingly referred to Stanford's new stadium as Circus Minimus. Who is laughing now? We could have built the same stadium, at about twice the price, on the Edward's footprint. Two blocks from BART. WHAT COULD GO WRONG? No, we had Teddy, and we would be "winning so much, we would get tired of winning." Well, now we are totally, and completely, screwed.


The Edwards footprint is way too small unless a 20,000 seat stadium would have been ok.
CaliforniaEternal
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The only way we could have come out ahead was to have an alum build out the entire project like furd did with Arillaga. I don't know the exact particulars but based on the reported cost ($90M), Arrilaga built that project with zero or minimal profit margin.

Other than that, in hindsight a more conventional financing scheme would have been wise.

The worst part is the east side wasn't renovated and the porta-potties will remain on that side until the 22nd century if the stadium is still standing then.
bearchamp
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An additional consideration is that football, as played today, is not long for this world. The decision makers had to know this when they made the decision.
Blueblood
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oskirules;842863934 said:

The Edwards footprint is way too small unless a 20,000 seat stadium would have been ok.



Sure it would've been OK especially if Cal was a football member-only of the Mountain West Conference!:acclaim:
Big C
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Bobodeluxe;842863927 said:

Many here laughingly referred to Stanford's new stadium as Circus Minimus. Who is laughing now? We could have built the same stadium, at about twice the price, on the Edward's footprint. Two blocks from BART. WHAT COULD GO WRONG? No, we had Teddy, and we would be "winning so much, we would get tired of winning." Well, now we are totally, and completely, screwed.


If the alternative were Circus Minimus Redux on the Edwards site, then I'm glad we did what we did. A couple hundred million more in debt don't mean squat to me: I fly way below that radar.
bear2034
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Blueblood;842863951 said:

Sure it would've been OK especially if Cal was a football member-only of the Mountain West Conference!:acclaim:


We can switch to the MWC but we'd still have the smallest stadium in that conference. Then some time in the future when super conferences are formed, we won't be invited due to our minimus stadium and then we'd just end up playing in some random conference with a bunch of rejects. :p
BearlyCareAnymore
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Big C_Cal;842863911 said:

What SHOULD we have done, regarding the Memorial Stadium remodel/retrofit?

Another hit piece in "that newspaper" yesterday, discussing how Cal sports is being strangled by the annual deficit, and opining that we went way too luxe with the amenities and performance center...

I don't claim great expertise on this subject, but my take is that we did what we needed to do, but that we were just really unlucky to have it coincide with the Great Recession and a decade-long downturn in the football program.

Anybody have another take? Could it have been financed better?

We needed to do the retrofit and we needed to upgrade the facilities. It just had to be done and I'm glad we kept the same location. Okay, so the new facilities haven't exactly been the recruiting panacea we had hoped, but I'm pretty sure that having crap facilities (maybe even mediocre ones) are a recruiting negative.

My only "solution" is to get the football team winning again, have the University absorb some of the debt somehow and maybe lobby to be allowed to have more non-Cal events at CMS.

What's your best idea?

Go Bears!


I supported the stadium and facility upgrade because they said it would be entirely paid for by donors and ESP. That made it a no brainer. Had we instead had the assumption that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, there would have been an analysis of other options, including a bare minimum retrofit, looking at other building sites, looking at leasing one of the other local stadiums.

I love Memorial stadium. I think our athletes deserve great facilities. You know what? We couldn't afford it. The crap way they handled the stadium has done incredible damage to the athletic department. Even if the campus chooses to take on the debt, you run into the problem that the opponents of the stadium project will have been proven right that the school will ultimately have paid for it and will be given legitimacy for everything else they fight against.

If they had said the campus would be paying $20M a year for the stadium, there is no way in hell they would have gotten approval for the project. I think it is the right thing to do for the campus to take this on now, but I'm one alum who is ticked off about it.
bearloyal
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oskirules;842863934 said:

The Edwards footprint is way too small unless a 20,000 seat stadium would have been ok.


We could have demolished Edwards, Evans Diamond, and Hellman Tennis Center and used that footprint for a new stadium. With a two-deck stadium, we could easily fit a 60,000 capacity structure on that site. Baseball and tennis could have been located to new facilities on the existing Memorial Stadium site, and track could have been eliminated, which is going to happen anyway.
bear2034
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bearloyal;842863963 said:

We could have demolished Edwards, Evans Diamond, and Hellman Tennis Center and used that footprint for a new stadium. With a two-deck stadium, we could easily fit a 60,000 capacity structure on that site. Baseball and tennis could have been located to new facilities on the existing Memorial Stadium site, and track could have been eliminated, which is going to happen anyway.


That proposal looks more expensive to me. The demolition of CMS and all the regrading in Strawberry Canyon is a huge cost, you're going to have to something about that large dirt hill when you remove the east side seating. Then you still have the problem of a baseball stadium sitting on the Hayward fault. We also have to find a place for the soccer teams.
Bobodeluxe
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oskirules;842863934 said:

The Edwards footprint is way too small unless a 20,000 seat stadium would have been ok.


Wrong. When you include the then dilapidated tennis courts, the footprints are almost identical. Thes site was "seriously" considered, but rejected because the stadium would be around 38,000, too small for a juggernaut.
Alkiadt
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CaliforniaEternal;842863941 said:

The only way we could have come out ahead was to have an alum build out the entire project like furd did with Arillaga. I don't know the exact particulars but based on the reported cost ($90M), Arrilaga built that project with zero or minimal profit margin.

Other than that, in hindsight a more conventional financing scheme would have been wise.

The worst part is the east side wasn't renovated and the porta-potties will remain on that side until the 22nd century if the stadium is still standing then.


Nope...Stanford is a private university. They can do whatever the hell they want on that land.
Cal is a state university, and construction projects are subject to much more scrutiny and regulation. No private donor would ever get to do what Arrilaga got to do.
Bobodeluxe
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oskirules;842863971 said:

That proposal looks more expensive to me. The demolition of CMS and all the regrading in Strawberry Canyon is a huge cost, you're going to have to something about that large dirt hill when you remove the east side seating. Then you still have the problem of a baseball stadium sitting on the Hayward fault. We also have to find a place for the soccer teams.


Soccer and track were proposed to move up to the Memorial site.

I spent many days at Memorial during the rebuild, talking with many different folks involved. They couldn't plan completely until the stadium was demolished. Didn't know what they were going to find. Things were a little losey goosey 90-something years ago. Also, the engineering standards were bumped up concurrent with the project timetable.

All this was done PRIOR to the Great Recession. A different time and a different universe.
GivemTheAxe
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oskirules;842863934 said:

The Edwards footprint is way too small unless a 20,000 seat stadium would have been ok.


Agree. Plus building on the Edwards Stadium site us an idea that passed by 100 years ago. Now with all the developments around that site it would be impossible. In addition the university would still have to pay for cost of removing the stadium
Big C
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71Bear;842863916 said:

Wifesafurd has written extensively on this subject, particularly as it pertains to the bonding issue. There have been a number of big mistakes made by the University that have led to the mess.

The answer today is place the burden for the seismic repair costs on the University and require the AD to pay the balance. It is not a perfect solution but it is the "right thing to do". How to pay the debt once that transaction has been finalized? A combination of increasing revenue streams and cutting several men's sports.


Would WiaF or anybody care to summarize, in layman's terms?
CaliforniaEternal
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Alkiadt;842863986 said:

Nope...Stanford is a private university. They can do whatever the hell they want on that land.
Cal is a state university, and construction projects are subject to much more scrutiny and regulation. No private donor would ever get to do what Arrilaga got to do.


UC is able to lease out land to an outside entity that is then donated back after construction is completed by the outside entity. This was how Blum Hall and Legends Aquatic Center were developed.
Big C
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OaktownBear;842863961 said:

I supported the stadium and facility upgrade because they said it would be entirely paid for by donors and ESP. That made it a no brainer. Had we instead had the assumption that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, there would have been an analysis of other options, including a bare minimum retrofit, looking at other building sites, looking at leasing one of the other local stadiums.

I love Memorial stadium. I think our athletes deserve great facilities. You know what? We couldn't afford it. The crap way they handled the stadium has done incredible damage to the athletic department. Even if the campus chooses to take on the debt, you run into the problem that the opponents of the stadium project will have been proven right that the school will ultimately have paid for it and will be given legitimacy for everything else they fight against.

If they had said the campus would be paying $20M a year for the stadium, there is no way in hell they would have gotten approval for the project. I think it is the right thing to do for the campus to take this on now, but I'm one alum who is ticked off about it.


When you say "the crap way they handled the stadium", the implication is that, even with what they knew ten years ago, they should've done it differently. To what extent were we the victims of bad luck (double whammy of economic + football downturn) and to what extent was it poor decision-making?

With projects like this, I firmly believe in "thinking big". Okay, so it looks like we thought too big. If the economy doesn't go back into the dumper and we start to challenge for conference championships fairly soon, will that go a long ways towards turning the situation around?
Yogi Is King
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Big C_Cal;842863911 said:

What SHOULD we have done, regarding the Memorial Stadium remodel/retrofit?

Another hit piece in "that newspaper" yesterday, discussing how Cal sports is being strangled by the annual deficit, and opining that we went way too luxe with the amenities and performance center...

I don't claim great expertise on this subject, but my take is that we did what we needed to do, but that we were just really unlucky to have it coincide with the Great Recession and a decade-long downturn in the football program.

Anybody have another take? Could it have been financed better?

We needed to do the retrofit and we needed to upgrade the facilities. It just had to be done and I'm glad we kept the same location. Okay, so the new facilities haven't exactly been the recruiting panacea we had hoped, but I'm pretty sure that having crap facilities (maybe even mediocre ones) are a recruiting negative.

My only "solution" is to get the football team winning again, have the University absorb some of the debt somehow and maybe lobby to be allowed to have more non-Cal events at CMS.

What's your best idea?

Go Bears!


Before that question can be fairly answered, I think Cal's questionable accounting practices need to be brought into question.

First off, what other university that builds a stadium with debt service places the expectation that the costs for paying off the stadium need to come solely from Athletic Department revenues with no contribution from the University proper. I'd be prepared to bet we are the only one.

Second, which other universities, if any, charge their own athletic department out-of-state tuition costs for their athletes?

Third, why are revenues generated by Cal athletic events not 100% Cal athletic revenue. Why do concessions revenue go to Cal Dining? Why doesn't parking revenue go to the Athletic Department? It wouldn't exist without the athletic event occuring.

Square those accounting issues away and then we can begin to have an honest account of what the deficit truly is and how much revenue we think we should be bringing in and how big of a department we want to run.
philbert
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CaliforniaEternal;842864001 said:

UC is able to lease out land to an outside entity that is then donated back after construction is completed by the outside entity. This was how Blum Hall and Legends Aquatic Center were developed.


Was this option presented and/or available when the stadium was redone? If it was an option and not used, I'd like to know why.
Strykur
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philbert;842864040 said:

Was this option presented and/or available when the stadium was redone? If it was an option and not used, I'd like to know why.


The stadium is a landmark, so probably was not an option.
bearloyal
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oskirules;842863971 said:

That proposal looks more expensive to me. The demolition of CMS and all the regrading in Strawberry Canyon is a huge cost, you're going to have to something about that large dirt hill when you remove the east side seating. Then you still have the problem of a baseball stadium sitting on the Hayward fault. We also have to find a place for the soccer teams.


Leave the east-side seating there to be used for the baseball field and the tennis courts. Orient the baseball field so that only the outfield is on the Hayward Fault; no structure would be on the fault. Eliminate the soccer teams in addition to the track teams.
tommie317
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Raiders 2019
TomBear
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I wonder how we will feel in a few years when, God willing, we have a football team that is contending for championships on a regular basis. If the stadium fills up routinely, I think a lot of negativism will be muted.
Oski87
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that is also how Oregon got around their laws with the Football complex.
tequila4kapp
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The stadium work had to happen. Both for seismic and football reasons. The money part sucks. WIAF has spoken to bonding particulars. We shouldn't have ceded so much to neighborhood groups. That's all I've got
Cave Bear
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I find two alternatives that would have been vastly better than what they did.

(1) They could have gone with a less ambitious renovation. The only requirement was seismic safety, everything beyond that was optional. The seismic retrofits were estimated at $18 million in 1998. Even if that number is off by 50% or more, we might have saved hundreds of millions of dollars by opting to only address the seismic safety issue. Of course this option would have left Memorial in poor shape in other regards, but we would have been at our leisure to address those other issues in a more practical manner.

(2) They could have required that the debt-service fund be fully-grown to handle the interest payments before the loan was taken out. Instead of making payments to financiers, the university could have loaned those sums annually as capital to the fund and then waited for it to have compounded to the point where the capital could be returned to the university from the fund while the remainder of the fund would still be sufficiently large such that its interest could meet the financing interest. The problem with that method is speed. It would take up to 20 years for the fund to be large enough, though if they acquired an large initial endowment the time frame could be reduced considerably (I believe such an endowment could easily have been raised). Still, it would have meant the stadium wouldn't be built for over a decade.

Politics is a big problem with Option (2) They sold the stadium project as something which would require no diversion of funds. The entire fund was supposed to be self-generated by the stadium project through donors, corporate sponsorship and ESP. If instead the project had proposed an $18,000,000 annual outlay from the general athletic budget, it might have been DOA (even though the outlay would be temporary and be returned in 15-20 years). Option (2) was probably also less desirable to Sandy Barbour (and others) because it would have meant the stadium would actually have been built during a future administration's tenure rather than her own. I have little doubt that getting the stadium done was (at least for awhile) a nice feather in Barbour's cap and probably factored into her decision to green-light an irresponsible financing model.

That last part will continue to bother me for a long time. When in 2013 the athletic department was finally forced to concede that the financing model had failed, Barbour said "Clearly, initial seat sales goals were overly ambitious. Why that was doesn't really matter. We needed to adjust." However, I think "why that was" does really matter. I think it matters because there are real benefits to having the cause for our current situation well known. What was the basis for the projection of ESP sales? Who exactly made that projection and who was in the chain that approved it? Why didn't they build in a longer period after commencing sales before committing to the loan? They waited just one year after selling ESP seats before starting construction. If they had waited three years instead they would have seen the model fail before committing to the financing. Finally, why did it take the athletic department so long to realize their error and make changes to the model?

Sales were meeting projections for the first few quarters of the program, but it started to slow down in late 2011 and virtually froze in 2012. Yet it took until Mar/Apr of 2013 for them to publicly admit defeat and publish a new funding model. Later that year they decided to change the frequency of reporting the stadium financial data from quarterly to biannual (and in 2014 changed it again from biannual to annual). The initial incompetence combined with the reluctance to admit error is not forgivable in my eyes--especially since Barbour (et al) has never repented for the project.

I know none of this matters now. Sandy Barbour is long gone and we are where we are financially, but all of this just chokes me with frustration. How is the athletic department chronically awful at business when Cal has such fabulous business school (and the athletic department is populated by so many alums)?
wifeisafurd
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OaktownBear;842863961 said:

I supported the stadium and facility upgrade because they said it would be entirely paid for by donors and ESP. That made it a no brainer. Had we instead had the assumption that it would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, there would have been an analysis of other options, including a bare minimum retrofit, looking at other building sites, looking at leasing one of the other local stadiums.

I love Memorial stadium. I think our athletes deserve great facilities. You know what? We couldn't afford it. The crap way they handled the stadium has done incredible damage to the athletic department. Even if the campus chooses to take on the debt, you run into the problem that the opponents of the stadium project will have been proven right that the school will ultimately have paid for it and will be given legitimacy for everything else they fight against.

If they had said the campus would be paying $20M a year for the stadium, there is no way in hell they would have gotten approval for the project. I think it is the right thing to do for the campus to take this on now, but I'm one alum who is ticked off about it.


I'm going to respond to Oak because I view him as the "rational Cal fan" and he is quite good at finding the flaws in other's arguments.

I believe there was many mistakes in planing and implementation of the SAHPC and Memorial rebuild, which are both financial, planning and construction in nature. While I think these misstates are instructive, they were made by individuals who are now gone (admittedly Brystorm still is around), and they have resulted in sunk costs. The debt service is what the debt service is today, and while some tinkering with ESP is possible, we are left on the revenue side with essentially in the same position that exists today. If I had a crystal ball and was in power, I would have likely recommended following the UCLA route and renting a stadium or look at other options as Oak suggests. IMO, you have to look forward and '71 has a pretty good summary what logically will happen.

As I said in another thread, the debt issue has different components, and while important is not the end all to what ails I/A. The revenue stream to repay the debt, to the extent it relies on one program, football, is unreliable as revenue from that program will vary on how well the program is winning (which likely will vary over time), and football TV revenues which also is likely to vary as the platform for broadcasting is changing, and for other reasons which involve a discourse on TV sports that no wants to read. Moreover, the structure of the debt is overly sensitive to interest rates. If rates go up, reinvestment of capital fund proceeds could even exceed the interest due. Interest rates stay low, the more negative variance there is from the original model. Bottom line is any reduction in the debt means a far more stable athletic department. That said, I don't see how Cal I/A gets the benefit of the revenue produced by a football team with competitive facilities and ESP from build-out of clubs and not pay the related debt service. I can see how a forward thinking Chancellor would find it beneficial to reduce the debt for reasons that are in the University's interest, especially if she can get big brother UC (who was asleep when it came refinancing the debt in the lower interest rate environment before the Regents imposed a credit limit due to reckless borrowing the the UC level) will underwrite some portion of the debt in order to avoid paying for new land costs (and to expedite housing that would otherwise take years more and ****-off the City of Berkeley with land acquisition involved). This is a win-win. And my guess is there are other plans at work to get the debt more manageable.

That doesn't mean there can be business as usual because the current model of football paying the deficits of so many teams doesn't work, and in the long run gets worse. IMO, you can't cut teams in such a horrible way that you alienate donors and end-up with a net loss of money (see Sandy Barbour). But making programs more accountable for reducing their operating deficits or other prudent financial driven incentives or disincentives make sense. Or change the current business model over some time period. But the status quo doesn't work regardless of whatever this Chancellor can do about the debt issue. The good news is the new Chancellor actually wants to do something to make I/A work in the future and is reaching out to different stakeholders. The newspaper writers simply don't understand the issues involved; although, Wilner at least has a general understanding (he just doesn't understand the specifics). Anything you read in the Comical or most publications is garbage, and all poster do here is beat each other-up over inaccurate information.
okaydo
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Cave Bear;842864113 said:

I find two alternatives that would have been vastly better than what they did.

(1) They could have gone with a less ambitious renovation. The only requirement was seismic safety, everything beyond that was optional. The seismic retrofits were estimated at $18 million in 1998. Even if that number is off by 50% or more, we might have saved hundreds of millions of dollars by opting to only address the seismic safety issue. Of course this option would have left Memorial in poor shape in other regards, but we would have been at our leisure to address those other issues in a more practical manner.

(2) They could have required that the debt-service fund be fully-grown to handle the interest payments before the loan was taken out. Instead of making payments to financiers, the university could have loaned those sums annually as capital to the fund and then waited for it to have compounded to the point where the capital could be returned to the university from the fund while the remainder of the fund would still be sufficiently large such that its interest could meet the financing interest. The problem with that method is speed. It would take up to 20 years for the fund to be large enough, though if they acquired an large initial endowment the time frame could be reduced considerably (I believe such an endowment could easily have been raised). Still, it would have meant the stadium wouldn't be built for over a decade.

Politics is a big problem with Option (2) They sold the stadium project as something which would require no diversion of funds. The entire fund was supposed to be self-generated by the stadium project through donors, corporate sponsorship and ESP. If instead the project had proposed an $18,000,000 annual outlay from the general athletic budget, it might have been DOA (even though the outlay would be temporary and be returned in 15-20 years). Option (2) was probably also less desirable to Sandy Barbour (and others) because it would have meant the stadium would actually have been built during a future administration's tenure rather than her own. I have little doubt that getting the stadium done was (at least for awhile) a nice feather in Barbour's cap and probably factored into her decision to green-light an irresponsible financing model.

That last part will continue to bother me for a long time. When in 2013 the athletic department was finally forced to concede that the financing model had failed, Barbour said “Clearly, initial seat sales goals were overly ambitious. Why that was doesn’t really matter. We needed to adjust.” However, I think "why that was" does really matter. I think it matters because there are real benefits to having the cause for our current situation well known. What was the basis for the projection of ESP sales? Who exactly made that projection and who was in the chain that approved it? Why didn't they build in a longer period after commencing sales before committing to the loan? They waited just one year after selling ESP seats before starting construction. If they had waited three years instead they would have seen the model fail before committing to the financing. Finally, why did it take the athletic department so long to realize their error and make changes to the model?

Sales were meeting projections for the first few quarters of the program, but it started to slow down in late 2011 and virtually froze in 2012. Yet it took until Mar/Apr of 2013 for them to publicly admit defeat and publish a new funding model. Later that year they decided to change the frequency of reporting the stadium financial data from quarterly to biannual (and in 2014 changed it again from biannual to annual). The initial incompetence combined with the reluctance to admit error is not forgivable in my eyes--especially since Barbour (et al) has never repented for the project.

I know none of this matters now. Sandy Barbour is long gone and we are where we are financially, but all of this just chokes me with frustration. How is the athletic department chronically awful at business when Cal has such fabulous business school (and the athletic department is populated by so many alums)?



It was almost exactly 20 years ago -- Friday, October 24, 1997 -- that UC Berkeley held a press conference to announce that 57 buildings were seismically poor or very poor. Officials found that Memorial Stadium was "poor" and that it would cost $14 million to fix.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/extras/1997/SAFER/Pages/findings.html




So apparently the preliminary number went up to $18 million the following year.

I haven't dug into the numbers. I'm just guestimating. But I can't imagine a proper retrofit of Memorial Stadium costing $14 million or $18 million ($27 million in today's dollars). Or even double that. Or triple. Or quadruple that.

Even if everything went according to plan, with no treesitters, I can't imagine a stadium retrofit being that low. That seems like a drop in the bucket, especially with what they were trying to accomplish.

I mean, what kind of retrofit can you actually get for $14 million/$18 million?

And how long do you put off doing a proper retrofit? 10? 20 years? 50 years? How long can you kick the can down the road?
calumnus
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okaydo;842864128 said:

It was almost exactly 20 years ago -- Friday, October 24, 1997 -- that UC Berkeley held a press conference to announce that 57 buildings were seismically poor or very poor. Officials found that Memorial Stadium was "poor" and that it would cost $14 million to fix.

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/extras/1997/SAFER/Pages/findings.html




So apparently the preliminary number went up to $18 million the following year.

I haven't dug into the numbers. I'm just guestimating. But I can't imagine a proper retrofit of Memorial Stadium costing $14 million or $18 million ($27 million in today's dollars). Or even double that. Or triple. Or quadruple that.

Even if everything went according to plan, with no treesitters, I can't imagine a stadium retrofit being that low. That seems like a drop in the bucket, especially with what they were trying to accomplish.

I mean, what kind of retrofit can you actually get for $14 million/$18 million?

And how long do you put off doing a proper retrofit? 10? 20 years? 50 years? How long can you kick the can down the road?


I had several ideas on how it could have been done on the cheap (all center on moving consessions and restroms outside the structure and adopting the ancient stadium model--infillng to create a solid structure with reinforced tunnels for access). However, that is all moot, we did what we did. We need to use our creativity to solve the problem. I do think the athletic department should get credit if the Edwards Stadium (and Evans Field while we are at it) land is given up. Maybe other University land can be developed too? Strawberry Canyon? Homes near LHS? I definitely think we need to have larger music events there or pro soccer...
Cave Bear
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okaydo;842864128 said:

I haven't dug into the numbers. I'm just guestimating. But I can't imagine a proper retrofit of Memorial Stadium costing $14 million or $18 million ($27 million in today's dollars). Or even double that. Or triple. Or quadruple that.

Even if everything went according to plan, with no treesitters, I can't imagine a stadium retrofit being that low. That seems like a drop in the bucket, especially with what they were trying to accomplish.

I mean, what kind of retrofit can you actually get for $14 million/$18 million?

And how long do you put off doing a proper retrofit? 10? 20 years? 50 years? How long can you kick the can down the road?


Good points/questions. Thanks for posting the SAFER link.

I don't know how accurate that estimate was, but it is the only appraisal I know of and even if it was off by 300%+ it still would have represented a much lower scale of debt for the university. What's above that line should be regarded as completely elective, and unless the estimate is off by 10x or more it comes out to over $300 million in elective spending on Memorial + SAHPC.

The crippling deficit is an incredibly dangerous position for the athletic department to be under. It's going to get much worse in 16 years when the principal starts fazing in. The stadium financing plan was a travesty regardless of how palatable the alternatives to our ideal rebuild would have been (which amazingly is what we got), and it was not unforeseen. There were public warnings at the time that the plan was not advisable and people here expressed accurate misgivings.

Ironically, football is safer in Berkeley than in most of America. Even if they got rid of football they couldn't get rid of the debt and they need football to pay the loan off. Memorial ensured that IA couldn't get rid of football for at least the next century, so I thank Sandy for that much. Beyond football (and bball), the future of athletics at Cal looks really grim.
Wags
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Cave Bear;842864113 said:

I know none of this matters now. Sandy Barbour is long gone and we are where we are financially, but all of this just chokes me with frustration. How is the athletic department chronically awful at business when Cal has such fabulous business school (and the athletic department is populated by so many alums)?


You make an awful lot of excellent points Cave Bear.

I'm convinced that the Cal Athletic Department has been filled (over the years) with people that have very poor business acumen and do not know how to lead or communicate. IMO, Sandy Barbour in particular, was someone that was guilty of this. She frequently overpromised.... and under-delivered, making up stuff as she went along. The same can be said of Brostrom.
82gradDLSdad
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calumnus;842864134 said:

I had several ideas on how it could have been done on the cheap (all center on moving consessions and restroms outside the structure and adopting the ancient stadium model--infillng to create a solid structure with reinforced tunnels for access). However, that is all moot, we did what we did. We need to use our creativity to solve the problem. I do think the athletic department should get credit if the Edwards Stadium (and Evans Field while we are at it) land is given up. Maybe other University land can be developed too? Strawberry Canyon? Homes near LHS? I definitely think we need to have larger music events there or pro soccer...


" I definitely think we need to have larger music events there or pro soccer..."

Cal needs to speak with alum Larry Baer. He has events at AT&T park that generate millions per year. The agreement with the hill people needs to be reworked and we need to start having many, many events at Memorial. Instant money maker.
And we need to rework the concession contract so that its profits flow to the AD. I've heard that the concessions are the biggest profit center for the Giants during their many events.
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