Not much to say. Can't believe they couldn't get it done against Trinidad and Tobego.
Soccer - US out of WC
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Last: 6 yr ago by sycasey
FOX lost out on some sponsor money.
"I would love to see one of these hotshot teams from Europe come here and play in our CONCACAF qualifying and really get a taste of this and see what that's about," Arena said. "This is very challenging, it's like survival of the fittest. They could do one of those TV shows on this. Who will survive in the end, that's basically what this is." -- Bruce Arena
Yes, Bruce, we had to contend with a mushy field and a raucous crowd of at least 1,000 T&T supporters! Unfair!
On the brighter side of this, the USNMT doesn't need to worry about a trip to the Trump White House.
Yes, Bruce, we had to contend with a mushy field and a raucous crowd of at least 1,000 T&T supporters! Unfair!
On the brighter side of this, the USNMT doesn't need to worry about a trip to the Trump White House.
Bear 19
Good. I don't want our children and future generations to be interested in such a boring and European sport.
USA! USA! USA! USA!
USA! USA! USA! USA!
ferCALgm2 said:
Not much to say. Can't believe they couldn't get it done against Trinidad and Tobego.
It is a joke. Same like my birth country Holland also did not make it to the World Cup.
Did he really say that?? Does he have any idea what kind of beatdown he would've gotten in CONMEBOL or UEFA? Then again, who could possibly compete against freakin' Panama or Honduras? They're consistently in the knockout stages of previous WCs right?Bear19 said:
"I would love to see one of these hotshot teams from Europe come here and play in our CONCACAF qualifying and really get a taste of this and see what that's about," Arena said. "This is very challenging, it's like survival of the fittest. They could do one of those TV shows on this. Who will survive in the end, that's basically what this is." -- Bruce Arena
Yes, Bruce, we had to contend with a mushy field and a raucous crowd of at least 1,000 T&T supporters! Unfair!
On the brighter side of this, the USNMT doesn't need to worry about a trip to the Trump White House.
Turrible.
Though on a karmic level it feels appropriate that the USA flamed out and failed to compete in Russia.
Though on a karmic level it feels appropriate that the USA flamed out and failed to compete in Russia.
Goobear said:ferCALgm2 said:
Not much to say. Can't believe they couldn't get it done against Trinidad and Tobego.
It is a joke. Same like my birth country Holland also did not make it to the World Cup.
Sorry goo, I guess my Rode Duivels monopolized all the talent in the Low Lands for the time being.
Granted we still have a hack for a coach
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Good. Although I will miss laughing at the boorish, once-every-four-years American fans and their silly flag waving and U-S-A chants.
What ever will the world stage do without the Americans to grace it?
What ever will the world stage do without the Americans to grace it?
sketchy9 said:Did he really say that?? Does he have any idea what kind of beatdown he would've gotten in CONMEBOL or UEFA? Then again, who could possibly compete against freakin' Panama or Honduras? They're consistently in the knockout stages of previous WCs right?Bear19 said:
"I would love to see one of these hotshot teams from Europe come here and play in our CONCACAF qualifying and really get a taste of this and see what that's about," Arena said. "This is very challenging, it's like survival of the fittest. They could do one of those TV shows on this. Who will survive in the end, that's basically what this is." -- Bruce Arena
Yes, Bruce, we had to contend with a mushy field and a raucous crowd of at least 1,000 T&T supporters! Unfair!
On the brighter side of this, the USNMT doesn't need to worry about a trip to the Trump White House.
We would have gotten trounced in the group stage in Russia next summer had we qualified. No question in my mind. I'm not sure how much better that would have been for growth of the sport.
At least now meaningful change might actually happen instead of just going through the motions, and we have the rare luxury of lots of time.
Yes de Rode Duivels should get far this time. Will be rooting for them. My favorite player is de Bruyne. Wow is he good!Grigsby said:Goobear said:ferCALgm2 said:
Not much to say. Can't believe they couldn't get it done against Trinidad and Tobego.
It is a joke. Same like my birth country Holland also did not make it to the World Cup.
Sorry goo, I guess my Rode Duivels monopolized all the talent in the Low Lands for the time being.
Granted we still have a hack for a coach
Holland is a joke right now. They can hold hands with the US.
Coaches matter. It's that simple. Arena never could get it done. Make some changes.
BerlinerBaer said:
We would have gotten trounced in the group stage in Russia next summer had we qualified. No question in my mind. I'm not sure how much better that would have been for growth of the sport.
At least now meaningful change might actually happen instead of just going through the motions, and we have the rare luxury of lots of time.
Probably right. This team showed no sign that they were good enough to do anything in the World Cup even if they had qualified (which should be a fairly easy job in CONCACAF).
This feels like a general failure of the current generation of players who are supposed to be in their primes right now. The previous Cup runs were fueled by veterans (Donovan, Dempsey, Howard) who are now over the hill, and (especially in 2014) some European ringers like Jermaine Jones. Pulsilic is special and gives hope for the future, but you could see the problems in the leaky defense at the back end, which really showed up in road games. The two goals they gave up to Trinidad to lose this match were very weak, goals that a competent defense should not allow. The younger group currently competing in the U17 tournament seems like they might be better.
Klinsmann had his issues, but he probably had the right idea: U.S. players need to get seasoning in the tougher European leagues to be ready to play with the big boys. Bringing Bruce Arena back was a desperation move and a step backwards into the old "small time" days of U.S. Soccer; you can see that attitude in his comments about CONCACAF qualifying. It would be like us re-hiring Tedford now, a guy who used to be good but hasn't shown much ability to win in the modern game.
So maybe an obvious and conspicuous failure like this will convince the powers that be to change their thinking, and that would be the silver lining here. Even so, it's not good for a country still trying to build enthusiasm for the sport to miss out on the world's biggest event. Four years is a long time.
philly1121 said:
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Yes. Howard's game deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years; it's pathetic that USMNT didn't have anyone better to put in goal.
So little development of younger talent at almost every position. Pulisic looks like a future superstar, but he developed in Europe.
The pay-to-play, "travel team" youth development is rotten to the core. It develops the children of wealthy families who are looking for college soccer scholarships and thus both severely limits the talent pool and only develops the players they do have to a low ceiling, ie getting that college scholarship. And let's not even start on how funneling kids into college soccer does nothing to develop potential future world-class talent.
Goobear said:Yes de Rode Duivels should get far this time. Will be rooting for them. My favorite player is de Bruyne. Wow is he good!Grigsby said:Goobear said:ferCALgm2 said:
Not much to say. Can't believe they couldn't get it done against Trinidad and Tobego.
It is a joke. Same like my birth country Holland also did not make it to the World Cup.
Sorry goo, I guess my Rode Duivels monopolized all the talent in the Low Lands for the time being.
Granted we still have a hack for a coach
Holland is a joke right now. They can hold hands with the US.
Part talent deficit and the KNVB needs an overhaul to get back total voetbal.
Enjoy KDB but I'm more of a Hazardphile
Its possible Concacaf doesn't win a game Russia lol.
That was a shockingly embarrassing performance for the USMNT. There's not much in the short term that can be done about the poor overall talent level exacerbated by soccer not appealing to America's best athletes. But the effort and energy was truly woeful. Altidore, Gonzalez and many others looked asleep and indifferent. Unless your name is Pulisic, nobody involved in that joke of a game should ever be allowed to wear the national colors again. With so much on the line, to play with so little passion was totally bewildering and anyone with even the slightest interest in US Soccer should be disgusted.
lolokaydo said:
Good. I don't want our children and future generations to be interested in such a boring and European sport.
USA! USA! USA! USA!
our children all play it already. but they do then decide its boring and either stop sports or play others.
it would be nice to win the WC once but the US seems determined to go through these "hype - bust - suck" cycles, which from my casual observer spot they've been doing since I knew what the world cup was (e.g. 20-25 years minimum)
BearSD- This is the very core of the problem for developing international level players. Your assessment is right on. In Europe the best players are picked out early and developed through their club system. They play year round and do way more training and skill development than we do here. Soccer while an athletic endeavor is at it's core a skill game. Of course if you are a superior athlete in combination with skill you will excel. But skills are needed.BearSD said:philly1121 said:
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Yes. Howard's game deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years; it's pathetic that USMNT didn't have anyone better to put in goal.
So little development of younger talent at almost every position. Pulisic looks like a future superstar, but he developed in Europe.
The pay-to-play, "travel team" youth development is rotten to the core. It develops the children of wealthy families who are looking for college soccer scholarships and thus both severely limits the talent pool and only develops the players they do have to a low ceiling, ie getting that college scholarship. And let's not even start on how funneling kids into college soccer does nothing to develop potential future world-class talent.
The US Soccer federation has favored athleticism and size at the youth level over skill for years. We are seeing the results of that thinking in international events. Not in World Cup, fail to make the Olympics (US under 23) and out of U17 world Cup as well.
Combining the flawed selection criteria with the pay to play component which eliminates so many talented kids who do not have the ability to pay or travel for practices, scrimmages and tournaments and you end up with a pool of players that is nowhere near close to the best players.
College soccer (and my son played) will never prepare you for anything beyond college soccer. The substitution rules are different, the practices are geared towards games and little time is spent on skill development. And they play a total of 18-20 matches before NCAA tournament against teams that have similar skill. My son played against better players in club matches.
Finally and this is a big one. Americans want to play games. They want trophies, they want the action of games and tournaments. Many of these tournaments are showcase events with college scouts attending. Players attempt to catch the eyes of the coaches with individual play rather than team play. It gets rewarded and so it goes.
If the USA wants to be a true power on the international level in soccer, they have much to change. IMO will not happen and despite having the greatest level of participation in the world at the youth level the USA will constantly come up short because of the training and selection process in place.
Lastly Bruce Arena is a dinosaur and his awful 4-4-2 formation needs to be put out to pasture. He is an awful coach and belongs nowhere near a real soccer program. Gulati is a bureaucrat that is corrupt and needs to be removed as well. The system is entrenched and will be hard to cleanse. That is why the US stinks at soccer. Starts at 8 years old and ends up in losses to Trinidad and Tobago who should have been beaten by a score of 5-0 at a minimum.
BearSD said:philly1121 said:
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Yes. Howard's game deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years; it's pathetic that USMNT didn't have anyone better to put in goal.
So little development of younger talent at almost every position. Pulisic looks like a future superstar, but he developed in Europe.
The pay-to-play, "travel team" youth development is rotten to the core. It develops the children of wealthy families who are looking for college soccer scholarships and thus both severely limits the talent pool and only develops the players they do have to a low ceiling, ie getting that college scholarship. And let's not even start on how funneling kids into college soccer does nothing to develop potential future world-class talent.
Spot on. Agree with everything you said. This pay to play system is something that has to change. I think Taylor twellman said something about this yesterday.
And like other posters have said - Altidore, Dempsey, Bradley, Gonzalez. They should never wear the crest again.
Just curious. What is your solution?6956bear said:BearSD- This is the very core of the problem for developing international level players. Your assessment is right on. In Europe the best players are picked out early and developed through their club system. They play year round and do way more training and skill development than we do here. Soccer while an athletic endeavor is at it's core a skill game. Of course if you are a superior athlete in combination with skill you will excel. But skills are needed.BearSD said:philly1121 said:
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Just curious What is your solution?
Yes. Howard's game deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years; it's pathetic that USMNT didn't have anyone better to put in goal.
So little development of younger talent at almost every position. Pulisic looks like a future superstar, but he developed in Europe.
The pay-to-play, "travel team" youth development is rotten to the core. It develops the children of wealthy families who are looking for college soccer scholarships and thus both severely limits the talent pool and only develops the players they do have to a low ceiling, ie getting that college scholarship. And let's not even start on how funneling kids into college soccer does nothing to develop potential future world-class talent.
The US Soccer federation has favored athleticism and size at the youth level over skill for years. We are seeing the results of that thinking in international events. Not in World Cup, fail to make the Olympics (US under 23) and out of U17 world Cup as well.
Combining the flawed selection criteria with the pay to play component which eliminates so many talented kids who do not have the ability to pay or travel for practices, scrimmages and tournaments and you end up with a pool of players that is nowhere near close to the best players.
College soccer (and my son played) will never prepare you for anything beyond college soccer. The substitution rules are different, the practices are geared towards games and little time is spent on skill development. And they play a total of 18-20 matches before NCAA tournament against teams that have similar skill. My son played against better players in club matches.
Finally and this is a big one. Americans want to play games. They want trophies, they want the action of games and tournaments. Many of these tournaments are showcase events with college scouts attending. Players attempt to catch the eyes of the coaches with individual play rather than team play. It gets rewarded and so it goes.
If the USA wants to be a true power on the international level in soccer, they have much to change. IMO will not happen and despite having the greatest level of participation in the world at the youth level the USA will constantly come up short because of the training and selection process in place.
Lastly Bruce Arena is a dinosaur and his awful 4-4-2 formation needs to be put out to pasture. He is an awful coach and belongs nowhere near a real soccer program. Gulati is a bureaucrat that is corrupt and needs to be removed as well. The system is entrenched and will be hard to cleanse. That is why the US stinks at soccer. Starts at 8 years old and ends up in losses to Trinidad and Tobago who should have been beaten by a score of 5-0 at a minimum.
I hope this doesn't set back the sport as much as I expect. If Americans like anything less than losing it might be not even qualifying.
At least women's soccer is good. That should help.
At least women's soccer is good. That should help.
Ironies:
Pulisic could have chosen to play for Croatia--who's still in it (playoff), and Johansson is Icelandic, and Iceland qualified. Now they're both stuck playing for USA for the rest of their careers.
Pulisic could have chosen to play for Croatia--who's still in it (playoff), and Johansson is Icelandic, and Iceland qualified. Now they're both stuck playing for USA for the rest of their careers.
Damn good question Bonsall. Any solution that does not tap into the Hispanic pipeline of players is destined to fall short. My experience with youth soccer was that many of the very best players were Hispanic. They grow up playing the game with their families and friends not even in an organized fashion. It is a game that many love and play in much the same way other groups play basketball or baseball in the park. My son played on a club team that was half Hispanic. The passion they have for the game is crazy. But many are not in a good financial situation. The club subsidized many of them to at least some degree. The marginal players families were outraged. They felt like they were used to subsidize players that played over their child. Politics rule the day at many clubs.bonsallbear said:Just curious. What is your solution?6956bear said:BearSD- This is the very core of the problem for developing international level players. Your assessment is right on. In Europe the best players are picked out early and developed through their club system. They play year round and do way more training and skill development than we do here. Soccer while an athletic endeavor is at it's core a skill game. Of course if you are a superior athlete in combination with skill you will excel. But skills are needed.BearSD said:philly1121 said:
FIRE Sunil Gulati. Fire Bruce Arena. There is no excuse for what happened tonight. Tim Howard earned legend status in a losing effort at the last World Cup. But he should never be allowed to play on the National Team again after he let that bomb in. Freaking awful.
Just curious What is your solution?
Yes. Howard's game deteriorated rapidly over the last 3 years; it's pathetic that USMNT didn't have anyone better to put in goal.
So little development of younger talent at almost every position. Pulisic looks like a future superstar, but he developed in Europe.
The pay-to-play, "travel team" youth development is rotten to the core. It develops the children of wealthy families who are looking for college soccer scholarships and thus both severely limits the talent pool and only develops the players they do have to a low ceiling, ie getting that college scholarship. And let's not even start on how funneling kids into college soccer does nothing to develop potential future world-class talent.
The US Soccer federation has favored athleticism and size at the youth level over skill for years. We are seeing the results of that thinking in international events. Not in World Cup, fail to make the Olympics (US under 23) and out of U17 world Cup as well.
Combining the flawed selection criteria with the pay to play component which eliminates so many talented kids who do not have the ability to pay or travel for practices, scrimmages and tournaments and you end up with a pool of players that is nowhere near close to the best players.
College soccer (and my son played) will never prepare you for anything beyond college soccer. The substitution rules are different, the practices are geared towards games and little time is spent on skill development. And they play a total of 18-20 matches before NCAA tournament against teams that have similar skill. My son played against better players in club matches.
Finally and this is a big one. Americans want to play games. They want trophies, they want the action of games and tournaments. Many of these tournaments are showcase events with college scouts attending. Players attempt to catch the eyes of the coaches with individual play rather than team play. It gets rewarded and so it goes.
If the USA wants to be a true power on the international level in soccer, they have much to change. IMO will not happen and despite having the greatest level of participation in the world at the youth level the USA will constantly come up short because of the training and selection process in place.
Lastly Bruce Arena is a dinosaur and his awful 4-4-2 formation needs to be put out to pasture. He is an awful coach and belongs nowhere near a real soccer program. Gulati is a bureaucrat that is corrupt and needs to be removed as well. The system is entrenched and will be hard to cleanse. That is why the US stinks at soccer. Starts at 8 years old and ends up in losses to Trinidad and Tobago who should have been beaten by a score of 5-0 at a minimum.
But is an broader sense there needs to be a realistic path to professional soccer in the US. College is absolutely the way to go for the vast majority of young players who do not have the skills and ability to be a pro. The problem is that in Europe for example the best players are found by ages 14-16. They play in the large clubs and develop under paid professional coaches and staff. In an environment geared towards professional development. They train with others with similar aspirations. They work at their game and learn to become pro players.
They are ready to play by 20-22 years of age (some earlier than that) . Once in a pro environment the best players can advance to elite club play and international play. In the US we do not have this sort of system that houses the players, schools the players, gets them the best training and readies them for professional play.
It could look a little like these prep schools we see all over the place for hoops. But you would need to have these kids move to an area, either live in a dormitory setting or with families in the area. Many parents would not allow this to happen. These "schools" would then have 9 month training specifically designed to prepare players for professional play and expose the top European clubs to these players and they would be able to select kids for participation in their clubs if applicable.
But this takes money and lots of it. You need to have top coaches and facilities. Professional staff that is paid well enough to work full time with these kids. You also need to be willing to forego college. College is not going to prepare anybody to become a terrific player that can realistically compete at the international level of play.
Athletic apparel and equipment companies need to invest and US Soccer and MLS need to invest. European partnerships need to be identified and they will need to invest. The European clubs need to win. They will invest if there is a reason to. In Europe they can easily move around and see many of the top players as the countries are all close together. The USA is a good distance away and they know the training provided currently is not worthy of great investment in either time or money.
MLS is a substandard pro league. It is a league where aging stars from elsewhere come to play out their careers once they have been passed over by the next wave of younger stars. But MLS is a business and is not interested in investing in American youth players as long as they can continue to mine South America, Central America and Europe and pluck their aging stars. Why develop when you can simply select.
But is a requirement if US Soccer is to truly compete in International Play. They can continue as is and most likely make World Cups. This was an aberration. But should open the eyes of US Soccer.
The odd thing is my son was a huge beneficiary of the current system when he played. We really enjoyed his time in it. He played all over the US was involved in National Championship events and top tournaments in every time zone. He played in college and played in camps against some of these very players now representing the US (Altidore and Zusi). They literally roll the ball out there and scrimmage. Very fun but not top training.
We loved his time and it was good for us and him. He was not going to be a pro player, just a very good youth and college player. I love soccer, it is a great game that is unappreciated by many Americans. That many do not care that the US failed to qualify for the World Cup shows just how hard it will be to get the US to the level it could be. It could and should be a powerhouse internationally.
In fairness, there has been a ton of progress in US Soccer over the last two decades. Within my lifetime, I've seen it go from: (1) expected to miss the World Cup and no one in the USA watched the World Cup anyway to (2) expected to always make the World Cup and usually advance out of the group stage. Missing out is now considered an embarrassment. That was not true when I was a kid. So that is good progress and the federation deserves credit for growing the game to this point.6956bear said:
We loved his time and it was good for us and him. He was not going to be a pro player, just a very good youth and college player. I love soccer, it is a great game that is unappreciated by many Americans. That many do not care that the US failed to qualify for the World Cup shows just how hard it will be to get the US to the level it could be. It could and should be a powerhouse internationally.
But you are probably right that the current methods have hit a ceiling and if the US wants to move past that ceiling and be an actual threat to win against the best teams they will have to rethink their approach.
I am feeling very sad today about the US not qualifying. The World Cup will not be the same without the US in it. It is the highlight of my sports viewing life. Or maybe just my life in general.
This US team was just not good. I think it was the relatively least talented US team since 1990. For whatever reason there was a lost generation. Even if the US made it, it was almost certainly going to be 3 and out. Yes there should be a turnover in leadership starting with Gulati. Yes they need a better coach than the hack Arena and his ridiculous 442 formation that leaves acres of space in the middle field, with only the washed up Michael Bradley to patrol it. The US is way behind Mexico and Costa Rica, and I would argue they are also behind Honduras. Finishing behind Panama was bad luck, but being fourth best in the region should not be the goal.
But the future is bright. Right now Pulisic, Yedlin, and Brooks are the only players who could start on a top 10 in the world team. All are under 25 so they should be at their peaks in 2022. The US U20 team was very good at the last World Cup. The US U17 team is one of the favorites at the world cup which is happening right now. Check them out; they are amazing. Ethan Horvath, now playing in Belgium, is at least a solid keeper, which cannot be said about anyone on the roster.
So the team that will peak around 2024 is
G: Ethan Horvath
D: Sergino Dest, Matt Miazga, John Brooks, DeAndre Yedlin
M: Andrew Carleton, Chris Durkin, Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic
F: Josh Sargent, Haji Wright
Some of those guys won't develop as hoped, but there are many others waiting in the wings The team above, with a few changes, can compete with the top10 in the world. Hopefully a new leader will be chosen who can bring them together.
Sluggo
This US team was just not good. I think it was the relatively least talented US team since 1990. For whatever reason there was a lost generation. Even if the US made it, it was almost certainly going to be 3 and out. Yes there should be a turnover in leadership starting with Gulati. Yes they need a better coach than the hack Arena and his ridiculous 442 formation that leaves acres of space in the middle field, with only the washed up Michael Bradley to patrol it. The US is way behind Mexico and Costa Rica, and I would argue they are also behind Honduras. Finishing behind Panama was bad luck, but being fourth best in the region should not be the goal.
But the future is bright. Right now Pulisic, Yedlin, and Brooks are the only players who could start on a top 10 in the world team. All are under 25 so they should be at their peaks in 2022. The US U20 team was very good at the last World Cup. The US U17 team is one of the favorites at the world cup which is happening right now. Check them out; they are amazing. Ethan Horvath, now playing in Belgium, is at least a solid keeper, which cannot be said about anyone on the roster.
So the team that will peak around 2024 is
G: Ethan Horvath
D: Sergino Dest, Matt Miazga, John Brooks, DeAndre Yedlin
M: Andrew Carleton, Chris Durkin, Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic
F: Josh Sargent, Haji Wright
Some of those guys won't develop as hoped, but there are many others waiting in the wings The team above, with a few changes, can compete with the top10 in the world. Hopefully a new leader will be chosen who can bring them together.
Sluggo
U.S. Women's Soccer stars are the only legitimate American soccer stars.
Promotion relegation is needed. The MLS interest (money making) diametrically opposes soccer's development in the United States. The problem is that the closed league system doesn't work because unlike the other 4 major sports league, MLS is not the destination spot for 95% of the top players.
While the owners have acted in their best interests to ensure money making they have effectively capped their profits. This is especially problematic with current cable cutting issues and lack of a quality product.
It is in the best interest of soccer in US both for the national team and the domestic leagues to move toward an open league structure. Given the sheer numbers this is the only way to greatly improve talent recognition and development.
The college level of play is probably at 6th division of the English pyramid.
While the owners have acted in their best interests to ensure money making they have effectively capped their profits. This is especially problematic with current cable cutting issues and lack of a quality product.
It is in the best interest of soccer in US both for the national team and the domestic leagues to move toward an open league structure. Given the sheer numbers this is the only way to greatly improve talent recognition and development.
The college level of play is probably at 6th division of the English pyramid.
Certainly promotion and relegation would help. But it will never happen as new owners paid way too much for their teams for this to happen. It needed to built into the original bylaws of MLS.Grigsby said:
Promotion relegation is needed. The MLS interest (money making) diametrically opposes soccer's development in the United States. The problem is that the closed league system doesn't work because unlike the other 4 major sports league, MLS is not the destination spot for 95% of the top players.
While the owners have acted in their best interests to ensure money making they have effectively capped their profits. This is especially problematic with current cable cutting issues and lack of a quality product.
It is in the best interest of soccer in US both for the national team and the domestic leagues to move toward an open league structure. Given the sheer numbers this is the only way to greatly improve talent recognition and development.
The college level of play is probably at 6th division of the English pyramid.
Anyway, it does not matter much, because US soccer professional development mostly takes place in Germany. Development is fine going up to 16. Between 16 and 18 the best players play division 2 before they go to Germany. It is not the best system, but it is working. See my other post.
Sluggo
I think this is how some other countries do it, right? The South American powerhouses like Argentina and Brazil are under no illusions that their domestic leagues are going to prepare their best players for competing on the world stage. They all go to Europe.sluggo said:
Certainly promotion and relegation would help. But it will never happen as new owners paid way too much for their teams for this to happen. It needed to built into the original bylaws of MLS.
Anyway, it does not matter much, because US soccer professional development mostly takes place in Germany. Development is fine going up to 16. Between 16 and 18 the best players play division 2 before they go to Germany. It is not the best system, but it is working. See my other post.
Sluggo
The Brazilian and Argentina leagues are far superior to MLS despite their top players seeking employment in Europe.
The top players go to Europe for the $$$$$$. The South American leagues do not pay anything like Europe. Not even close. The domestic leagues in South America are not much better than MLS. Maybe they were at one time but no longer.sycasey said:I think this is how some other countries do it, right? The South American powerhouses like Argentina and Brazil are under no illusions that their domestic leagues are going to prepare their best players for competing on the world stage. They all go to Europe.sluggo said:
Certainly promotion and relegation would help. But it will never happen as new owners paid way too much for their teams for this to happen. It needed to built into the original bylaws of MLS.
Anyway, it does not matter much, because US soccer professional development mostly takes place in Germany. Development is fine going up to 16. Between 16 and 18 the best players play division 2 before they go to Germany. It is not the best system, but it is working. See my other post.
Sluggo
Just sad. Pulisic has to wait 5 years now to play in his first WC. That's not right.
I am only a casual observer but I was once told that the transfer fee system is different elsewhere. In Europe, a club who identifies, invests in and develops a young player stands to reap millions if the player becomes good enough to be "sold" to a top tier pro club. They have every incentive to develop skills rather than to just try to win games, as we do here.
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