Do you still buy ESP or Chairbacks w/o a tax deduction? Do you reduce your ESP/Chairback investment? Some of us are curious. Thanks for the input. No shaming please.

The wife and I decided to invest in our ESP tickets one more year, by purchasing before 2018. Going forward, without the tax deduction, we are not sure it makes sense to continue. We wouldn't have purchased the ESP tickets originally if not for the tax deduction.

I had ESP tickets but I upgraded them in quantity and quality. I dropped my chairbacks for basketball. Taxes had nothing to do with either decision. I dropped basketball because I can't get to more than 3 or 4 games per season. I may get them again in a few years if my schedule changes enough for it to make sense.

The only impact of the tax situation was that I frontloaded a substantial lump sum payment in 2017 so I could deduct it. The tax deduction was nice to have but it never has or will drive these sorts of decisions for me.

Keeping 2 ESP seats but frontloaded several years of payment against the principal in 2017 to significantly reduce yearly payment going forward since no part of it will be tax deductible starting this year.

Have 2 MBB season tics and am also keeping them, but they are not chairbacks so N/A for that. Admittedly, I've given away over half of them (for free) via ticket exchange this season (mostly because I was away or busy, not because the team is bad).

The tax benefits aren't really a concern. Is/was a nice perk. Nothing changes.

We saddled up and paid the entire remaining balance on our two ESP seats. Free football forever from hereon out! Whee! We will be renewing our Men's BB season tickets (not chairback) and will continue going to 10-15 Women's BB games each year.

Go Bears.

I do some tax stuff, but not a ton of individual work. If you are ESP and want to stay committed to it and have the funds to do so, you may benefit from a Charitable Trust. If I remember right you can set one up and fund it (and deduct it) now, for qualified contributions to be distributed over time. Anyways, ATO should be all over this for the ESP backers or anyone else who will be losing a large deduction for Cal Sports donations in the future. Not sure if this would have closed at 12/31/17 or may still be open.

It may be worth asking your tax advisor.

Keeping my two Stadium Club seats, as the tax deduction wasn't a big factor for that anyway. Also, keeping my chairback in basketball.

WIAF (or anyone else who might know) -- have there been a lot of cancellations in ESP? If so, was the tax change cited as a major reason? I would be surprised if there was a large dip in renewals due to the loss of tax deductibility. I think it's more likely that it just got more difficult to get new customers into ESP. I haven't asked my rep lately and it might be too early to know but I was curious if there was a particular reason to start this thread.

My two ESP seats are fully paid for. I plan to keep purchasing my two chairback basketball seats each year.

CRBear said:

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I think it's more likely that it just got more difficult to get new customers into ESP.

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Not in ESP now, but my group has progressed the last couple of years from QQ --> West Side --> Chairbacks and considered ESP. The major deal breaker for us to upgrade for ESP has been the late game times for young families, but the loss of the tax deduction would make it harder to justify the increased outlay, as we all itemize.

I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

CRBear said:

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WIAF (or anyone else who might know) -- have there been a lot of cancellations in ESP? If so, was the tax change cited as a major reason? I would be surprised if there was a large dip in renewals due to the loss of tax deductibility. I think it's more likely that it just got more difficult to get new customers into ESP. I haven't asked my rep lately and it might be too early to know but I was curious if there was a particular reason to start this thread.

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Don't know, and I don't think Cal will know for some time. I know there was a bump with people paying early to beat the tax deadline. Have heard predictions which I can't share.

FWIW, I talked with development chairs or AD's for a few other Pac schools and they are quoting estimated drops that seem high (30 to 40%). Going nationally, there is a view that the top football programs (TOSU, Alabama and many other SEC schools, Penn State, etc.) won't be impacted as there will be a line to take any decent tickets donors turn-in due to the tax hit. Probably true of elite basketball programs like Duke as well.

I would be careful about post 12/31/17 charitable trusts or other schemes until Treasury Regs. come out.

rkt88edmo said:

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I do some tax stuff, but not a ton of individual work. If you are ESP and want to stay committed to it and have the funds to do so, you may benefit from a Charitable Trust. If I remember right you can set one up and fund it (and deduct it) now, for qualified contributions to be distributed over time. Anyways, ATO should be all over this for the ESP backers or anyone else who will be losing a large deduction for Cal Sports donations in the future. Not sure if this would have closed at 12/31/17 or may still be open.

It may be worth asking your tax advisor.

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Wondered about that. Does your Charitable Trust allow you to personally benefit from a contribution? Our foundation does not and for that reason I resisted purchasing ESP. I don't need the aggravation if the IRS determines that personal use and deductibility don't mix. A trust and a foundation are different animals, but I am concerned about incurring penalties because we might violate the terms of the foundation. Any estate planners handy to advise?

I will remain an ESP bear. It would be nice to have the deduction, but that was not my main reason to purchase.

I'm retired. Much of the success I've had in life is due to my Cal education. I figure the University and team needs my support more than ever.

And I will always be a Bear. GO BEARS!!

Bear8 said:

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rkt88edmo said:

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I do some tax stuff, but not a ton of individual work. If you are ESP and want to stay committed to it and have the funds to do so, you may benefit from a Charitable Trust. If I remember right you can set one up and fund it (and deduct it) now, for qualified contributions to be distributed over time. Anyways, ATO should be all over this for the ESP backers or anyone else who will be losing a large deduction for Cal Sports donations in the future. Not sure if this would have closed at 12/31/17 or may still be open.

It may be worth asking your tax advisor.

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Wondered about that. Does your Charitable Trust allow you to personally benefit from a contribution? Our foundation does not and for that reason I resisted purchasing ESP. I don't need the aggravation if the IRS determines that personal use and deductibility don't mix. A trust and a foundation are different animals, but I am concerned about incurring penalties because we might violate the terms of the foundation. Any estate planners handy to advise?

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The charitable trusts do let you direct where the contribution is made, not sure about the personal benefit side, but I would assume that personal benefits are nondeductible, which could mean the trust can't make them.

However, the market value of anything you receive should reduce the amount that is deductible for charity, which is why you will often see things tagged with the FMV of the item you are receiving when you make a donation. Seat licenses are a tricky thing, the IRS treats them similar to options for the purposes of gains calculation for licenses that you can sell (like SF Giants). Not sure what the rules are with ESP licenses and if they can be sold. Also not sure that the "right to buy a ticket" (which is what seat license usually are, as you have to buy the ticket on top of that, but I am not ESP and haven't looked into it) has any value. Thus the seat license (option) may have "zero value" if it can't be transferred or redeemed for cash.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

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It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

CRBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

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It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

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He didn't necessarily blame Cal for #2 and #3. However, Cal needs to used its 1/12 voice to address those concerns because lots of people have complaints about those issues.

Yogi Bear said:

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CRBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

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It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

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He didn't necessarily blame Cal for #2 and #3. However, Cal needs to used its 1/12 voice to address those concerns because lots of people have complaints about those issues.

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Completely agree. I was encouraged by the new chancellor doing just that in recent interviews. From what I can tell, she's been the most vocal of all 12 university leaders on the topic. The other folks who I've seen publicly criticize these sorts of things are coaches like Chris Petersen.

Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

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Sorry, I don't understand your post. "Nice knowing you"? I don't believe I know you. What do you mean?
I'll still be at the games, come up and say hi. However, I'll warn you, I don't usually get along very well with condescending pr!cks.

Yogi Bear said:

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CRBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

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Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

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It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

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He didn't necessarily blame Cal for #2 and #3. However, Cal needs to used its 1/12 voice to address those concerns because lots of people have complaints about those issues.

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Thanks, Yogi.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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CRBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

---

Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

---

It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

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He didn't necessarily blame Cal for #2 and #3. However, Cal needs to used its 1/12 voice to address those concerns because lots of people have complaints about those issues.

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Thanks, Yogi.

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You're welcome. Rage on brother!

Chapman_is_Gone is gone

CRBear said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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CRBear said:

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Jeff82 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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I won't be donating / ESPing this season and for the foreseeable future, for three reasons, and it has nothing to do with tax deductibility. I am tired of my loyalty and my generosity being treated with little respect.

1) Cal went cheap on the Wyking Jones hire. Apparently Cal doesn't need my money, because they sure didn't spend it to get a talented, proven coach.

2) The 6/13 day game time announcement window. Absolutely insulting to fans, especially those who have to buy airline tickets.

3) Non-traditional, absurd days (Thurs/Fri) and starting times for football and, to a lesser extent, basketball. Absolutely insulting to fans and their long-established traditions.

Once the baffoon leaves the AD office, and if Cal makes a smart hire -- someone who will fight for the casual fan as much as he/she wh0res out to Learfield -- I may revisit my decision.

---

Nice knowing you. By the way, it's b-u-f-f-o-o-n. A misspelled dig loses its impact.

---

It's certainly not my place to tell someone else what to do with his money but I would point out that issues #2 and 3 were brought about the conference as a whole. Cal, regardless of the AD, is one voice out of 12 and not a particularly influential one at that. There are a lot of things that one could legitimately blame Mike Williams for (such as #1) but those are two bad examples.

---

He didn't necessarily blame Cal for #2 and #3. However, Cal needs to used its 1/12 voice to address those concerns because lots of people have complaints about those issues.

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Completely agree. I was encouraged by the new chancellor doing just that in recent interviews. From what I can tell, she's been the most vocal of all 12 university leaders on the topic. The other folks who I've seen publicly criticize these sorts of things are coaches like Chris Petersen.

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Washington and Furd Presidents have been publicly critical as well. Like the Chancellor, they are relatively new to the job. Since the new campus leaders did not approve the TV deals when it occurred, they are in a better position to criticize than the Presidents that supported the TV deals originally (and now don't like the consequences).