Bear19 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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concordtom said:

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Memorial has fake grass. What does Furd have?

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One has to wonder if Cal's fake surface -- which negatively impacts the fan game day experience -- has a material impact on recruits' school decisions versus schools like Stanfurd that have natural grass. Certainly, it must have some impact.

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I doubt surface composition is even thought about by HS kids. Many HS fields are artificial these days.

How does the surface of the field "negatively impact the fan game day experience"?

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Because it looks fake. Memorial doesn't look as good as it did when it was natural grass. Football is MEANT to be played on natural grass. Baseball, too. And soccer. And, any sport for that matter.

Chapman_is_Gone said:

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Bear19 said:

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Chapman_is_Gone said:

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concordtom said:

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Memorial has fake grass. What does Furd have?

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One has to wonder if Cal's fake surface -- which negatively impacts the fan game day experience -- has a material impact on recruits' school decisions versus schools like Stanfurd that have natural grass. Certainly, it must have some impact.

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I doubt surface composition is even thought about by HS kids. Many HS fields are artificial these days.

How does the surface of the field "negatively impact the fan game day experience"?

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Because it looks fake. Memorial doesn't look as good as it did when it was natural grass. Football is MEANT to be played on natural grass. Baseball, too. And soccer. And, any sport for that matter.

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The only games that should be played on a carpet are miniture golf and Twister.

More on Furd.....

OK Anecdote is not the singular of data but this data point is telling.

Their all-world Running back (now we can then devolve into a discussion of the glove, coaching up, talent assessment, etc. etc. but lets just not. Lets just not)

Christian McCaffery is the son of an NFL wide receiver 8 years with the Doncos. He retired in place in Highland's Ranch Colorado - a community located about 1/2 between Denver and Colorado Springs with a median household income $113,944 and 1.6% of the population below the federal poverty line. It is 88.7% white. Christain attended Valor Christain - a school with a list price of 19K this year. It was financed largely from the contributions of Ed McVaney, the founder of JD Edwards.

Now you just are smoking some good legal stuff (both Colorado and California) if you want to argue that a kid like McCaffery is going to fit in at Cal.

Then you go through the rest of their revenue sport rosters. They either have or have gotten kids from La Jolla Country Day (28K a year), Bishops (33K) and Francis Parker (>30K) - private schools in San Diego I know WELL. I am less well versed on Harvard Westlake so I will leave it for others on the board to chim in. I also know that they have recruited out of Torrey Pines HS - a public but whose attendance area includes Rancho Santa Fe and Fairbanks (both communities with Meidan house prices well over 2.5 million).

I spent a few hours a year or so ago going over their football rosters and checking out their High schools and the attendance area. Over and over again it was privates _OR_ exurban public schools where the high housing prices act as a barrier to entry to the middle class. Obviously this is a proxy variable since it is not easy to track to ground what their parents do but it seems highly likely if not clear that they are from the welll paid professional class (while our team is made up, frankly of the Jabari Bird's of the world - solidly middle class families doing right by their kids. Go Jabari!!)

Now then - perhaps "1%" is an overstatement (and probably struck close to home to BI'ers who reside in these very similar communities - (I do, we are right out side Fairbanks wtih lawyers and doctors around). But it is a simple case, as a reading of socio-economic data will indicate, that this is a very privledged life - perhaps not in the upper 1% but definately in the upper tenth. That isn't the background of the majority of our ROSTER (but may be for our student body).

Finally and I will also let this sink in, I think a lot of Bi'ers project themselves onto recruits. But unless you are African American and grew up in solidly middle class (or in sometimes lower middle class communities) you really don't have a CLUE as to where these kids feel comfortable (and where they do not). Many of YOU may have wanted to go to EITHER Furd or Cal (or aspire to that for your kids) but that may again be a projection. As the father of an African American son, even one raised in an affluent suburb, I would think twiece about not voiceing concerns with Furd or most Ivies (I would think Columbia works). Not that these are not great schools but it isn't clear that it would be an experience either in the short or long term that would leave him happy or connected to the larger community he _IS_ by being an African American part of. Much of this is mute - as a math wiz and strong desire for engineering I can easily see him at a place like Harvey Mudd where he has visited and that would make SoCal Sr. ridiculously happy and proud.

PS to the above: Again one of the advantages that Furd has is that as communities like Highland Ranch have become more commonplace (David Brooks is great here from the popular side and then all the "sorting" literature in academic sociology) and P5 has largely Shrunken to BIG publics and a few outliers like Furd the Cardinal is uniquely situated in a sellers market. Where ELSE in P5 land does a kid like McCafferty obviously fit in?????

PPS. Again, don't project. Imagine that you grew up in a 90% white community with ridiculously strong born again mega churches and wanted for nothing after your dad played 13 years in the NFL. Would you REALLY be happy living in the Cal dorms???????

Trying to imagine why one kid or another picks another school besides Cal, parse all the supposed advantages/disadvantages and then generalize them is futile at best.

Are we winning more than our fair share of recruiting battles for kids out coaches want? Is our win ability improving? These are the questions to ask.

Bear19 said:

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Trying to imagine why one kid or another picks another school besides Cal, parse all the supposed advantages/disadvantages and then generalize them is futile at best.

Are we winning more than our fair share of recruiting battles for kids out coaches want? Is our win ability improving? These are the questions to ask.

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It all boils down to "Cal is not for everyone". That is an immutable fact that has not changed in the last half-century. Add to that the questions in the last paragraph and you have all the information you need. The socio-economic mumbo-jumbo is just that - mumbo-jumbo........

CalBarn said:

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packawana said:

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We need to beat Furd this year. Unless we can provide a superior football product, high-academic students will always look at Furd first and us second.

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Yes, we need a better football product to show kids. But I disagree that high-academic students "will always look at Furd first and us second." Just another excuse to use when we get beat in recruiting. I didn't even give Stanford a second thought when I chose Cal. Not EVERY high-academic student will choose them over us.
Cal has plenty to offer to attract students......not everyone likes Stanford. Just sayin'........

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History tell us that we don't win recruiting battles against furd unless are football product is much better than theirs!!! Even kids that may like Cal more fall victim to parents and high school teachers whose mentality is if you get into Stanford, you go there.
Natalie Coughlin had to throw a fit to fend off her parents when she decided on Cal. Most kids don't have the fortitude or confidence not to give into the pressure. Also, with furd's financial assistance, Furd will almost always be less expensive. Another example is former Cal QB Rich Campbell. He was placed in another home, by Cal coaches,for the week prior to letter of intent day because his parents would not stop badgering him to attend Furd.
I think the student culture at Furd is horrible; it's not "collegiate" if you know what I mean. But at 17 or 18 years old, you don't know what you don't know.

71Bear said:

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Bear19 said:

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Trying to imagine why one kid or another picks another school besides Cal, parse all the supposed advantages/disadvantages and then generalize them is futile at best.

Are we winning more than our fair share of recruiting battles for kids out coaches want? Is our win ability improving? These are the questions to ask.

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It all boils down to "Cal is not for everyone". That is an immutable fact that has not changed in the last half-century. Add to that the questions in the last paragraph and you have all the information you need. The socio-economic mumbo-jumbo is just that - mumbo-jumbo........

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This is it-----Why can we not face that "Cal if not for everyone"....As great as it is, it is not for everyone..

Let me add this corollary: Stanford is not for everyone, either.

Stanfurd sucks. So there is that going for us...