PtownBear1 said:

---

Can someone that's read up on both situations please explain how this is different from the situation last year with Coach Mac at CU other than the fact that Ohio State/Urban are newsworthy and no one cares about CU?

---

Mac did tell his AD...Did Mac lie about it to the media??
https://www.si.com/college-football/2017/08/10/mike-macintyre-colorado-joe-tumpkin-domestic-abuse

tOSU football program is estimated to be wroth $1.5 BILLION. CU is not. Big dog gets all the attention. Also Meyer was being paid $7m?

Comments?

oskirules said:

---

With our luck, he'll get fired and then go to USC after Helton gets canned.

---

The one thing that can be said about Meyer is he knows how to coach. Unless he has worn out his welcome at TOSU, they will find a way to bury this, and anything else. He wins and there is too much money involved.

burritos said:

---

Comments?

---

This seems to be a rather typical of an abusive situation. The husband clearly has a major problem if she is telling the truth (which I suspect she is, thought there often are two sides to every dispute).

My question is at what point do you cut off responsibility for having to get involved with someone else's personal life? The family (do you sue the parents, cousins, any relative? ), the employer or any employee at the employer who knew or thought they knew, all the friends, neighbors, any acquaintance? At what point are we no longer responsible for getting involved in some other people's personal life? When do we not have an obligation to meddle when we suspect something is wrong? Just curious to hear people's views realizing we could all be put in this situation.

. . . but . . . but . . . but he's Earl Bruce's grandson.
Doesn't that merit something?
Free haircuts or an occasional quiet poke in the chops?

Another Bear said:

---

tOSU football program is estimated to be wroth $1.5 BILLION. CU is not. Big dog gets all the attention. Also Meyer was being paid $7m?

---

okaydo said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

tOSU football program is estimated to be wroth $1.5 BILLION. CU is not. Big dog gets all the attention. Also Meyer was being paid $7m?

---

---

Saban must look at this and just burn inside.

Big C said:

---

okaydo said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

tOSU football program is estimated to be wroth $1.5 BILLION. CU is not. Big dog gets all the attention. Also Meyer was being paid $7m?

---

---

Saban must look at this and just burn inside.

---

Maybe, but I'd guess that if Saban went to Alabama'a administration and said he wanted a bump to be paid as much as or more than Meyer, they would say, "No problem."

My other reaction as that I'm sure quite a few Michigan people look at this list and burn inside.

I thought I posted a response but don't see it, so my apologies if this is duplicative. I could tell by the hyperbole and excessive exclamation marks that what you stated is probably b.s. Then I read the excerpt you included and confirmed it to be the case. Domestic violation is different from sexual misconduct, which is the provision you cite to. If that's all you're relying on, that's a very thin case for breach of contract.

Urban Meyer's job is to win football games. For him to be placed on leave for something his assistant coach did is ridiculous. It used to be innocent until proven guilty, but now, it's not only backwards, even those tangentially affiliated with the wrongdoer becomes collateral damage. Of course domestic violence is bad, but it shouldn't be the employers' responsibility to police their employees. That's an issue for the criminal justice system. It just makes no sense to me.

One employee at Starbucks exhibits racial bias, and the mob reaction is to boycott Starbucks until the entire company shuts down for a few hours to educate all of their employees on racial sensitivity. That's nuts. And it would be one thing if the outrage led to meaningful positive change, but it doesn't. All it does is make the people who are quick to point fingers feel better about themselves. That's it. You think Starbucks ended racism amongst its employees because of its racial sensitivity training? You think Courtney Smith is better off now that her ex-husband lost his job and probably can't make alimony and child support payments? Give me a break. It's also probably why this is coming out now instead of when it actually happened. But seriously, what did you want Urban Meyer to do? Fire him on the spot? Again, how would that help the situation? You think the ex-husband will calm down and think rationally now that he's been fired? Get real.

I get it, we live in a culture of outrage. Everyone's outraged about everything, so someone has to ultimately pay. But sorry, I will not be joining you on the morality police squad. We don't live in a utopian society. There are going to be messed up people coming from messed up situations. That's just reality.

What might get Meyer fired is not the crime (knowing about the abuse), it'll be the cover up (lying about the fact that he knew).

NYCGOBEARS said:

---

What might get Meyer fired is not the crime (knowing about the abuse), it'll be the cover up (lying about the fact that he knew).

---

The cover-up and this...

The new clause in Urban Meyer's contract that might matter now

Quote:

---

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Title IX is a federal law that applies to all public educational institutions that receive federal funds. It was designed to prevent gender discrimination. And it may play a role into Ohio State's investigation of what Urban Meyer knew regarding domestic abuse allegations about former assistant coach Zach Smith.

Specific language that applies to Title IX, and potentially to this situation, was added to Meyer's contract extension in April.

New paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place.

Another new paragraph makes clear that failure to follow this rule could cost Meyer his job.

---

okaydo said:

---

Urban won't be head coach by Monday night.

---

Agree. This is not a financial issue. The landscape in 2018 just doesn't tolerate lying to cover-up spouse abuse on the part of an employee at a University once the matter has gone public.

NYCGOBEARS said:

---

What might get Meyer fired is not the crime (knowing about the abuse), it'll be the cover up (lying about the fact that he knew).

---

I disagree. Who cares if he lied to the media?

Knowing about the abuse and doing nothing is absolutely the issue. My question would be whether that is the kind of person you want representing your University and being the leader of young men.

I'm not sure OSU can get out of this without paying Meyer out for his contract though. The statement in his contract that everyone is quoting is somewhat ambiguous IMO and it also refers to following the OSU code of conduct which has not been posted so prevalently. It all really depends on what it says on staff crimes committeed off campus to individuals unaffiliated with the university. The dismissal of the CU lawsuit that I posted above seemingly says that incidents off campus with unaffiliated individuals are not the University's responsibility - which then seems to also imply Title IX and 'mandatory reporting' in this kind of case is NOT a federal requirement.

Coach Mac was reprimanded for violating CU's internal rules, as was the AD and Chancellor. So it really depends again on OSU's rules.

Thing is OSU football can afford whatever outcome, so they may fire now, sort out later via lawsuit. Which may be interesting to get urban under oath with risk of purjury and all that.

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

I thought I posted a response but don't see it, so my apologies if this is duplicative. I could tell by the hyperbole and excessive exclamation marks that what you stated is probably b.s. Then I read the excerpt you included and confirmed it to be the case. Domestic violation is different from sexual misconduct, which is the provision you cite to. If that's all you're relying on, that's a very thin case for breach of contract.

Urban Meyer's job is to win football games. For him to be placed on leave for something his assistant coach did is ridiculous. It used to be innocent until proven guilty, but now, it's not only backwards, even those tangentially affiliated with the wrongdoer becomes collateral damage. Of course domestic violence is bad, but it shouldn't be the employers' responsibility to police their employees. That's an issue for the criminal justice system. It just makes no sense to me.

One employee at Starbucks exhibits racial bias, and the mob reaction is to boycott Starbucks until the entire company shuts down for a few hours to educate all of their employees on racial sensitivity. That's nuts. And it would be one thing if the outrage led to meaningful positive change, but it doesn't. All it does is make the people who are quick to point fingers feel better about themselves. That's it. You think Starbucks ended racism amongst its employees because of its racial sensitivity training? You think Courtney Smith is better off now that her ex-husband lost his job and probably can't make alimony and child support payments? Give me a break. It's also probably why this is coming out now instead of when it actually happened. But seriously, what did you want Urban Meyer to do? Fire him on the spot? Again, how would that help the situation? You think the ex-husband will calm down and think rationally now that he's been fired? Get real.

I get it, we live in a culture of outrage. Everyone's outraged about everything, so someone has to ultimately pay. But sorry, I will not be joining you on the morality police squad. We don't live in a utopian society. There are going to be messed up people coming from messed up situations. That's just reality.

---

...and yet if the shirt fits...

Big C said:

---

okaydo said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

tOSU football program is estimated to be wroth $1.5 BILLION. CU is not. Big dog gets all the attention. Also Meyer was being paid $7m?

---

---

Saban must look at this and just burn inside.

---

I've seen reports where Saban makes something like $11M all-in once endorsements, shoe deals, etc...are thrown in.

Another Bear said:

---

NYCGOBEARS said:

---

What might get Meyer fired is not the crime (knowing about the abuse), it'll be the cover up (lying about the fact that he knew).

---

The cover-up and this...

The new clause in Urban Meyer's contract that might matter now

Quote:

---

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Title IX is a federal law that applies to all public educational institutions that receive federal funds. It was designed to prevent gender discrimination. And it may play a role into Ohio State's investigation of what Urban Meyer knew regarding domestic abuse allegations about former assistant coach Zach Smith.

Specific language that applies to Title IX, and potentially to this situation, was added to Meyer's contract extension in April.

New paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place.

Another new paragraph makes clear that failure to follow this rule could cost Meyer his job.

---

---

This last statement makes the entire paragraph ambiguous in what it means for Urban Meyer's responsibility. In fact It might give him an out... it seems he is only required to report intimate violence violations that meet the definition I put in bold above. It's restricted to "Title IX" related violations. With a $38 million buyout, I'm betting there are lawyers out there that can put up a pretty good argument that off campus activity with unaffiliated individuals is not under the purview of Title IX.

Very different situation than if say a player assaulted his girlfriend who was also an OSU student.

There are also moral turpitude clauses that can lead to dismissal as well. One pertinent question IMO would be whether his inaction (if it's proven that he knew) lead to future abuse.

Good point about the massive buyout, that's a poison pill that could go either way. That said, I think the Title IX contract clause gives tOSU cause to fire him without a buyout.

Another Bear said:

---

Good point about the massive buyout, that's a poison pill that could go either way. That said, I think the Title IX contract clause gives tOSU cause to fire him without a buyout.

---

Only if Title IX applies...

Note that the victim in the CU case sued Coach MacIntyre, other school officials and the university, but this was dismissed with the following statement from the federal judge: " as someone with no affiliation with or connection to the university, she was not within the group of individuals that the policies were designed to protect".

okaydo said:

---

bonsallbear said:

---

okaydo said:

---

Urban won't be head coach by Monday night.

---

Which Monday is that precisely?

---

The next time there is a Monday night.

What did Urban's predecessor get fired for? Tattoos, right?

---

You were right

bonsallbear said:

---

okaydo said:

---

bonsallbear said:

---

okaydo said:

---

Urban won't be head coach by Monday night.

---

Which Monday is that precisely?

---

The next time there is a Monday night.

What did Urban's predecessor get fired for? Tattoos, right?

---

You were right

---

Well, he hasn't been fired yet...just on paid administrative leave.

What are you saying? That I'm a wife beater, that Urban is a wife beater? Your response makes no sense.

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

I thought I posted a response but don't see it, so my apologies if this is duplicative. I could tell by the hyperbole and excessive exclamation marks that what you stated is probably b.s. Then I read the excerpt you included and confirmed it to be the case. Domestic violation is different from sexual misconduct, which is the provision you cite to. If that's all you're relying on, that's a very thin case for breach of contract.

Urban Meyer's job is to win football games. For him to be placed on leave for something his assistant coach did is ridiculous. It used to be innocent until proven guilty, but now, it's not only backwards, even those tangentially affiliated with the wrongdoer becomes collateral damage. Of course domestic violence is bad, but it shouldn't be the employers' responsibility to police their employees. That's an issue for the criminal justice system. It just makes no sense to me.

One employee at Starbucks exhibits racial bias, and the mob reaction is to boycott Starbucks until the entire company shuts down for a few hours to educate all of their employees on racial sensitivity. That's nuts. And it would be one thing if the outrage led to meaningful positive change, but it doesn't. All it does is make the people who are quick to point fingers feel better about themselves. That's it. You think Starbucks ended racism amongst its employees because of its racial sensitivity training? You think Courtney Smith is better off now that her ex-husband lost his job and probably can't make alimony and child support payments? Give me a break. It's also probably why this is coming out now instead of when it actually happened. But seriously, what did you want Urban Meyer to do? Fire him on the spot? Again, how would that help the situation? You think the ex-husband will calm down and think rationally now that he's been fired? Get real.

I get it, we live in a culture of outrage. Everyone's outraged about everything, so someone has to ultimately pay. But sorry, I will not be joining you on the morality police squad. We don't live in a utopian society. There are going to be messed up people coming from messed up situations. That's just reality.

---

First off, Urban Meyer is done. He's a very public figure in a leadership role with young men and is arguably the most important representative of the people of Ohio. His willingness to tolerate an assistant coach who he knew was beating his wife makes him unemployable by OSU (and hopefully anyone else). Further, he knowingly lied and went so far as to attempt to belittle and vilify the reporter who uncovered Smith's transgressions. The Administrative leave is simply an immediate and temporary solution while they work through whether he can be terminated for cause and/or if some sort of a buyout needs to be negotiated.

This outcome is very justified. For all of our cynicism (much of it justified) about college football, the actual role of a football coach is to be a teacher and mentor of young men. He fails utterly in that role when he employs someone he knows is assaulting his wife. And further lying to cover it up and protect himself and his program. Domestic violence is far and away the #1 violent crime in this country. It is a tragedy. At a human level, Urban's decision to tacitly endorse this behavior is disgusting and immoral. It's a wonderful thing that our culture has evolved to making overt sexism, racism and domestic violence unacceptable. It shows we are outgrowing fear and hatred and embracing our true natures - that of love.

We are far from perfect as individuals or as a society AND we can stand up for our values and make sure our leaders and teachers share those values or find other means of making a living.

And yes the world does get better when Harvey Weinstein is removed from his job, when Ray Rice is removed from his job, etc. It reminds everyone that society deems such behavior unacceptable. It's how we evolve as human beings

Go Bears!

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

I thought I posted a response but don't see it, so my apologies if this is duplicative. I could tell by the hyperbole and excessive exclamation marks that what you stated is probably b.s. Then I read the excerpt you included and confirmed it to be the case. Domestic violation is different from sexual misconduct, which is the provision you cite to. If that's all you're relying on, that's a very thin case for breach of contract.

Urban Meyer's job is to win football games. For him to be placed on leave for something his assistant coach did is ridiculous. It used to be innocent until proven guilty, but now, it's not only backwards, even those tangentially affiliated with the wrongdoer becomes collateral damage. Of course domestic violence is bad, but it shouldn't be the employers' responsibility to police their employees. That's an issue for the criminal justice system. It just makes no sense to me.

One employee at Starbucks exhibits racial bias, and the mob reaction is to boycott Starbucks until the entire company shuts down for a few hours to educate all of their employees on racial sensitivity. That's nuts. And it would be one thing if the outrage led to meaningful positive change, but it doesn't. All it does is make the people who are quick to point fingers feel better about themselves. That's it. You think Starbucks ended racism amongst its employees because of its racial sensitivity training? You think Courtney Smith is better off now that her ex-husband lost his job and probably can't make alimony and child support payments? Give me a break. It's also probably why this is coming out now instead of when it actually happened. But seriously, what did you want Urban Meyer to do? Fire him on the spot? Again, how would that help the situation? You think the ex-husband will calm down and think rationally now that he's been fired? Get real.

I get it, we live in a culture of outrage. Everyone's outraged about everything, so someone has to ultimately pay. But sorry, I will not be joining you on the morality police squad. We don't live in a utopian society. There are going to be messed up people coming from messed up situations. That's just reality.

---

Do you believe that joe paterno's firing was justified?

There's no way this guy can survive knowingly employing a wifebeater on staff. And let's be real, the possibility the he didn't know about the situation is remote at best.

So now child rape is the same as domestic violence? But this actually highlights the dilemma. Where is the line of demarcation? It becomes a slippery slope.

Everybody can sit on their high horse in an ivory tower, but this involves real people and real lives. The question that really should be asked is, does this help the victim, Courtney Smith? The answer is unquestionably, no. If her ex-husband loses his job and can't make money, he can't pay alimony and child support. That hurts the victim. But at least the firing of Urban Meyer will quench the thirst of the blood thirsty mob. It's just so satisfying to point their finger and look down on someone who used to be so high up.

I just find this whole situation to be ridiculous. Not only are you responsible for your own actions, you now need to be held accountable for all those under you. Admittedly this is selfish, but I don't want that responsibility. What my employees do in their personal lives is their business, not mine. If they screw up, why do I have to answer for it? And which bad behavior becomes a fireable offense? Is it worth the risk of facing a wrongful termination lawsuit?

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

So now child rape is the same as domestic violence? But this actually highlights the dilemma. Where is the line of demarcation? It becomes a slippery slope.

Everybody can sit on their high horse in an ivory tower, but this involves real people and real lives. The question that really should be asked is, does this help the victim, Courtney Smith? The answer is unquestionably, no. If her ex-husband loses his job and can't make money, he can't pay alimony and child support. That hurts the victim. But at least the firing of Urban Meyer will quench the thirst of the blood thirsty mob. It's just so satisfying to point their finger and look down on someone who used to be so high up.

I just find this whole situation to be ridiculous. Not only are you responsible for your own actions, you now need to be held accountable for all those under you. Admittedly this is selfish, but I don't want that responsibility. What my employees do in their personal lives is their business, not mine. If they screw up, why do I have to answer for it? And which bad behavior becomes a fireable offense? Is it worth the risk of facing a wrongful termination lawsuit?

---

First you say that the head coach shouldn't be punished for something his assistant did. But then you seem to imply there's an exception if child rape is involved.

So yes, the question is, where do you draw the line? Why should paterno be punished and not Meyer? It's not like domestic violence is some innocent crime.

You ask whether the punishment helps the victim. Well there's several reasons why we punish people. One is deterence.

Maybe another head coach sees urban Meyer getting fired for not reporting his assistants dv and that will encourage him to report his assistant who is currently abusing their spouse. Is there no utility in that?

Then you say that it's ridiculous that supervisors should be responsible for the actions of their underlings? I don't think the university in this case is asking Meyer to investigate each and every one of his assistants lives. For instance, if Meyer had no actual knowledge, he'd probably be fine. But if Meyer does have actual knowledge of dv, is it really asking too much to expect him to report it to his supervisor?

Again no one is asking supervisors to know every detail of their underling's lives. They don't have to hire a private investigator. But if you have actual knowledge of domestic violence, the right thing to do is report it, no? Is that too much of a burden for you?

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

So now child rape is the same as domestic violence? But this actually highlights the dilemma. Where is the line of demarcation? It becomes a slippery slope.

Everybody can sit on their high horse in an ivory tower, but this involves real people and real lives. The question that really should be asked is, does this help the victim, Courtney Smith? The answer is unquestionably, no. If her ex-husband loses his job and can't make money, he can't pay alimony and child support. That hurts the victim. But at least the firing of Urban Meyer will quench the thirst of the blood thirsty mob. It's just so satisfying to point their finger and look down on someone who used to be so high up.

I just find this whole situation to be ridiculous. Not only are you responsible for your own actions, you now need to be held accountable for all those under you. Admittedly this is selfish, but I don't want that responsibility. What my employees do in their personal lives is their business, not mine. If they screw up, why do I have to answer for it? And which bad behavior becomes a fireable offense? Is it worth the risk of facing a wrongful termination lawsuit?

---

So you think Urban Meyer should stay in his leadership role even if he's a sh*tty leader?

"So now child rape is the same as domestic violence? But this actually highlights the dilemma. Where is the line of demarcation? It becomes a slippery slope."

Domestic violence, rape, molestation, murder, assault, prostitution are all serious crimes.

Nowadays, schools don't want their names to be associated with serious crimes.


"Everybody can sit on their high horse in an ivory tower, but this involves real people and real lives. The question that really should be asked is, does this help the victim, Courtney Smith? The answer is unquestionably, no. If her ex-husband loses his job and can't make money, he can't pay alimony and child support. That hurts the victim. But at least the firing of Urban Meyer will quench the thirst of the blood thirsty mob. It's just so satisfying to point their finger and look down on someone who used to be so high up."

So a victim should just live with the abuse because of the money?

Serious crimes and being accused of serious crimes come with serious consequences -- not the reward of a $340,000 a year job. These jobs are rare and hard to get, as you can see from the salary. So people who actively harm the people they work for shouldn't be given those jobs.


"Not only are you responsible for your own actions, you now need to be held accountable for all those under you."

Yes, the people you hire as a football coach are an extension of you. They are a reflection of you. They are your ambassadors. When they do wrong, it's your name that will be in the lede of news articles, and/or in the headlines. When you're hiring somebody for a coveted $340,000 a year job at a public institution of higher learning -- the combined salary of three UC Berkeley professors -- you want to get the best of the best. A rare combination of somebody who is stellar at their jobs and who comes with integrity.

And if they do wrong, you cut bait or you take measures to ensure that they really did wrong by putting it in the hands of your superiors.


"Admittedly this is selfish, but I don't want that responsibility."

Great -- I'm assuming you don't have a job of great responsibility.

But being the powerful head football coach of a public school making $7.6 million a year comes with a f*ckload of responsibility. The salary says it all. It comes with the territory. You have that job and that extremely rare salary not just because you can win, but because you are a leader of men and/or a person who can identify people who help you be a great leader.

You are one of hundreds of millions people who can win and be a great leader of students.

If Urban Meyer didn't want the responsibility, then he should have signed on for another job.


"What my employees do in their personal lives is their business, not mine. If they screw up, why do I have to answer for it?"

When you have an employee potentially doing criminal behavior, it's your business.


First off, you can't rely on somebody to be your coach if they're in jail, or if they have to be in court while you're having key meetings.

Secondly, if you're going into the homes of potential recruits and meeting moms, it's hard to look them in the eye if they know that you don't take domestic violence seriously. (Well, I'm sure a sociopath can do it.)

Thirdly, it hurts a program when you have one non-head coach person generating headlines and causing a distraction that will likely impact the team, and thus your job. (It's kind of like that lowly guy you never heard of in the Trump administration a few months back who generated headlines for his domestic violence. He had to leave because he became the big news.)

I'm assuming that you were outraged that Sonny Dykes apparently forced out Pierre Ingram because he got arrested for prostitution in his personal life?

No, even a program like Cal football found it distasteful to be connected to the word "prostitution."

(The president of ESPN was doing cocaine in his personal time. He said it didn't affect his performance. Nobody noticed his performance was affected. Yet his boss, the CEO of Disney, forced him to step down.)


And which bad behavior becomes a fireable offense? Is it worth the risk of facing a wrongful termination lawsuit?

As the saying goes, it's not the crime. It's the cover-up. If you're unable to handle leadership basics, then maybe you shouldn't be a leader.

I don't get why you would resort to personal attacks when I am merely expressing my opinions about something that ultimately does not matter. I am not an Ohio State or Urban Meyer fan. It really doesn't matter to me, but I will call out what I see as an injustice. Maybe the disconnect is that I do not deify college football coaches and believe them to be some sort of great moral authority. He's paid to win football games. Yes, he gets paid a lot, but so what? Is money everything in life? He's not a pastor or life guru entrusted with the responsibility of leading people's lives. His student athletes are there for a few years and wil either graduate or leave early for the pros.

I also think it's insulting to compare Courtney Smith to a child. Children are minors and lack legal capacity to act on their own. To equate Courtney with the Sandusky children implies that Courtney is incapable of reporting crimes herself, which is absurd.

I also think you guys are completely confusing Urban Meyer to the criminal justice system. I was not implying that Courtney Smith's ex-husband should escape punishment. Not at all. I absolutely agree that crimes must be punished. I just don't believe in vigilante justice.

Obviously, I am not changing anyone's mind, and you're not changing mine. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Wearelove said:

---

First off, Urban Meyer is done. He's a very public figure in a leadership role with young men and is arguably the most important representative of the people of Ohio. His willingness to tolerate an assistant coach who he knew was beating his wife makes him unemployable by OSU (and hopefully anyone else). Further, he knowingly lied and went so far as to attempt to belittle and vilify the reporter who uncovered Smith's transgressions. The Administrative leave is simply an immediate and temporary solution while they work through whether he can be terminated for cause and/or if some sort of a buyout needs to be negotiated.

This outcome is very justified. For all of our cynicism (much of it justified) about college football, the actual role of a football coach is to be a teacher and mentor of young men. He fails utterly in that role when he employs someone he knows is assaulting his wife. And further lying to cover it up and protect himself and his program. Domestic violence is far and away the #1 violent crime in this country. It is a tragedy. At a human level, Urban's decision to tacitly endorse this behavior is disgusting and immoral. It's a wonderful thing that our culture has evolved to making overt sexism, racism and domestic violence unacceptable. It shows we are outgrowing fear and hatred and embracing our true natures - that of love.

We are far from perfect as individuals or as a society AND we can stand up for our values and make sure our leaders and teachers share those values or find other means of making a living.

And yes the world does get better when Harvey Weinstein is removed from his job, when Ray Rice is removed from his job, etc. It reminds everyone that society deems such behavior unacceptable. It's how we evolve as human beings

Go Bears!

---

You are absolutely correct. I have many friends who are graduates of tOSU. I know how proud they are of the University and the football success.

Domestic abuse is inexcusable. Urban's reaction to the inquiries are an issue.

YuSeeBerkeley said:

---

I don't get why you would resort to personal attacks when I am merely expressing my opinions about something that ultimately does not matter. I am not an Ohio State or Urban Meyer fan. It really doesn't matter to me, but I will call out what I see as an injustice. Maybe the disconnect is that I do not deify college football coaches and believe them to be some sort of great moral authority. He's paid to win football games. Yes, he gets paid a lot, but so what? Is money everything in life? He's not a pastor or life guru entrusted with the responsibility of leading people's lives. His student athletes are there for a few years and wil either graduate or leave early for the pros.

I also think it's insulting to compare Courtney Smith to a child. Children are minors and lack legal capacity to act on their own. To equate Courtney with the Sandusky children implies that Courtney is incapable of reporting crimes herself, which is absurd.

I also think you guys are completely confusing Urban Meyer to the criminal justice system. I was not implying that Courtney Smith's ex-husband should escape punishment. Not at all. I absolutely agree that crimes must be punished. I just don't believe in vigilante justice.

Obviously, I am not changing anyone's mind, and you're not changing mine. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

---

If a Cal assistant coach walked up to a stranger on the street and beat him down, would you expect Cal to keep him. If not, why not given your position here? If it turned out that there was video evidence and Wilcox knew it was his guy but didn't report it, should Wilcox be punished? If yes, why given your opinion here? If yes, I wonder why you would view beating a family member as less heinous than a stranger.

If you still think Cal has no responsibility in this case, you are outside the norm. Most major companies background check employees. If you contract with these companies, they expect you to background check anyone doing work for them. They then expect you to report if you find out anyone assigned to do work for them has been accused of a crime. You are not necessarily expected to keep tabs, other than regular background checks, but if you find out about something you are expected to report. Further, knowingly keeping someone in staff that engages in violence opens you up to all sorts of legal liability if they commit violence on the job.

A boss who did what Meyer has done in most management jobs would be facing severe repercussions up to termination. Meyer's value is the only thing that might save him.

ColoradoBear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state-football-news/ohio-state-title-ix-urban-meyer-shelley-zach-smithGood point about the massive buyout, that's a poison pill that could go either way. That said, I think the Title IX contract clause gives tOSU cause to fire him without a buyout.

---

Only if Title IX applies...

Note that the victim in the CU case sued Coach MacIntyre, other school officials and the university, but this was dismissed with the following statement from the federal judge: " as someone with no affiliation with or connection to the university, she was not within the group of individuals that the policies were designed to protect".

---

An article that says Title IX was likely NOT violated:

https://thespun.com/big-ten/ohio-state-football-news/ohio-state-title-ix-urban-meyer-shelley-zach-smith

But also that the tOSU Office of Title IX investigates other forms of sexual assault outside of Title IX.

Again, the bolded clause seems very problematic as it defines a "known violation" as only involving Title IX and does so pretty unambiguously. It also seemingly contradicts the notion that Ohio State policy requires one to report abuse outside of Title IX. Lawyers will have fun with this one if they try to fire without buyout..

Another Bear said:

---

NYCGOBEARS said:

---

What might get Meyer fired is not the crime (knowing about the abuse), it'll be the cover up (lying about the fact that he knew).

---

The cover-up and this...

The new clause in Urban Meyer's contract that might matter now

Quote:

---

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Title IX is a federal law that applies to all public educational institutions that receive federal funds. It was designed to prevent gender discrimination. And it may play a role into Ohio State's investigation of what Urban Meyer knew regarding domestic abuse allegations about former assistant coach Zach Smith.

Specific language that applies to Title IX, and potentially to this situation, was added to Meyer's contract extension in April.

New paragraph 4.1 (e) of Meyer's extension reads:

Coach shall promptly report to Ohio State's Title IX Athletics any known violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy (including, but not limited to, sexual harassment, sexual assault, sexual exploitation, intimate violence and stalking) that involve any student, faculty or staff or that is in connection with a university sponsored activity or event. ... For purposes of this Section 4.1 (e), a "known violation" shall mean a violation or allegation of a violation of Title IX that Coach is aware of or has reasonable cause is taking place or may have taken place.

Another new paragraph makes clear that failure to follow this rule could cost Meyer his job.

---

---

But I don't think you can fire someone for knowing something in 2015 due to a clause that is added in 2018(?)

Some speculation that bob stoops could replace Meyers.

I mean....you can't make this **** up.

Let's fire Meyers for ignoring dv but then let's hire bob stoops?

In case anyone is interested, here is the Onion's take on the matter:

https://www.theonion.com/ohio-state-puts-urban-meyer-on-paid-secret-coaching-lea-1828059245