HoopDreams said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

---

Basketball is the sport with the big rise in popularity

---

Attendance to Pac 12 games and for most conferences is going in the opposite direction. And college viewership (TV which is measurable) is also down. So it must be the NBA . and your right. Along with record-setting attendance each of the last 3 years, the NBA set all-time marks for social media and retail. BTW, the gains have been reasonable, but look enormous compared to other sports and car racing where the numbers are mostly in the red.

BTW, the top leagues in terms of attendance are:

1) the german soccer league
2) MLB
3) India Cricket League
4) MLS
5) Premier Soccer League
6) NFL
7) Spanish Soccer League
8) Three more Soccer Leagues
9) NBA

And before you get too excited about basketball, if the wikipedia is to be believed, more people watch golf, baseball, volleyball, table tennis, tennis, field hockey (almost 3 times more than basketball), cricket (4x more), and soccer (way more). About the same number watch football as basketball.

---

are you talking about the U.S.?
also, I think 'attendence' is different than viewers

---

The US: of course not. India Cricket League has higher attendance in the US?

Watch apparently is attendance and TV if that is where you were headed with your second sentence.

Northside91 said:

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bearchamp said:

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Undoubtedly some of this injury concerns. People should face the fact that football as we know it is not long for this world. Just a matter of time before some big universities abandon it for ethical reasons. I wonder why Cal is not a leader.

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Should be interesting to see how Cal manages the program after JW leaves after this season or (latest) next. I wouldn't be surprised to see the university start winding up football at that time.

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People said the same thing - in the 1890s. Spoiler alert: College football still exists.

LunchTime said:

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Cal should double down on soccer.

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But Edwards Stadium is going away.

OdontoBear66 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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TandemBear said:

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Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

OdontoBear66 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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TandemBear said:

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Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

I have to tell you that as I read this, I thought you were making fun of soccer. Then I got to the end and I realized you were serious. Or were you? I'm still questioning. That is the problem.

I think soccer is a great sport. It just isn't made for an American spectator. The low scoring. The flopping. The stalling without trying to score. The number of ties. Deciding games on penalty kicks. No playoffs or championship games. The games where teams have an unspoken agreement to kick the ball around and tie so that they both move to the next round. These all run counter to American sports values. That and we suck at it while countries like Iceland are good.

Rushinbear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

TandemBear said:

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Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

I think if we did all that to football, it might be almost half as popular as soccer.

The institutions continue to invest in the football arms race, so at least within the fortress that is a typical big school athletic dept, the decision makers are doubling down.

Cal's got, what, about $300-350M to pay down on Memorial? Alabama just announced a $600M facilities renovation plan, about $300M of which will be for Bryant-Denny Stadium renovations. Arkansas just spent $160M to enclose the north end of its stadium, all for a program that has not accomplished much since Bobby Petrino went skidding off an Arkansas highway with a football staff coed on the back of his motorcycle. Notre Dame just put $450M into its stadium, some of which was rationalized as being for non-athletic uses but really was all about adding luxury seating to that facility.

I guess the sentiment, in-house, at these places is that football is likely to survive for at least the medium term.

OaktownBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

I think if we did all that to football, it might be almost half as popular as soccer.

---

Yes, I guess I'm really only being half serious about how to fix fb, assuming it needs to be fixed. You might say that it is what it is, or has become. Probably, it will slowly gravitate to a hard core, as happened with tennis.

And, the popularity of soccer will grow as long as we... Oh, never mind.

One thing's for sure, the NFL is killing itself off. I, for one (among a growing number), no longer watch it. Will a hard core of fans be able to sustain it as is or will it have to reconfigure to survive? College fb is my favorite sport, by far (not that you, or anyone else, care).

boarbearblarney,
filling those facilities will be difficult with no players.

Rushinbear said:

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OaktownBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

I think if we did all that to football, it might be almost half as popular as soccer.

---

Yes, I guess I'm really only being half serious about how to fix fb, assuming it needs to be fixed. You might say that it is what it is, or has become. Probably, it will slowly gravitate to a hard core, as happened with tennis.

And, the popularity of soccer will grow as long as we... Oh, never mind.

One thing's for sure, the NFL is killing itself off. I, for one (among a growing number), no longer watch it. Will a hard core of fans be able to sustain it as is or will it have to reconfigure to survive? College fb is my favorite sport, by far (not that you, or anyone else, care).

---

I think the danger to the NFL is more political than anything. I really don't think it is in danger from lack of fan interest or from lack of participants. Yes, if fewer kids play, the talent pool will shrink and skill level will go down. But, as long as that happens incrementally, skill level is all relative. College football has been popular for decades with a skill level that is far lower than today's NFL. IMO, any sport's popularity is less about the skill level than about keeping the rules of the game such that game play is compelling. If you cut the NFL's talent pool in half, it still will have plenty of players that are competent.

The danger is if the NFL becomes the tobacco industry of sports where there is enough of a movement against it to actually force changes. I don't know, though. We are already talking about a sport that can have gruesome injuries actually on the field for all to see. I'm not sure that guys mostly seeing effects after they have left and are out of the public eye is really going to move the needle. We are a country that believes in individual choice and as long as there are relatively poor people with no other means of earning that kind of a living, there will be people willing to participate.

wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Basketball is the sport with the big rise in popularity

---

Attendance to Pac 12 games and for most conferences is going in the opposite direction. And college viewership (TV which is measurable) is also down. So it must be the NBA . and your right. Along with record-setting attendance each of the last 3 years, the NBA set all-time marks for social media and retail. BTW, the gains have been reasonable, but look enormous compared to other sports and car racing where the numbers are mostly in the red.

BTW, the top leagues in terms of attendance are:

1) the german soccer league
2) MLB
3) India Cricket League
4) MLS
5) Premier Soccer League
6) NFL
7) Spanish Soccer League
8) Three more Soccer Leagues
9) NBA

And before you get too excited about basketball, if the wikipedia is to be believed, more people watch golf, baseball, volleyball, table tennis, tennis, field hockey (almost 3 times more than basketball), cricket (4x more), and soccer (way more). About the same number watch football as basketball.

---

are you talking about the U.S.?
also, I think 'attendence' is different than viewers

---

The US: of course not. India Cricket League has higher attendance in the US?

Watch apparently is attendance and TV if that is where you were headed with your second sentence.

---

Well, I would think 'attendence' means going to the game, and not include TV, which is why I asked for clarification. The only way I can imagine these numbers are to include TV viewers.

I am also just trying to figure out why MLB is so high. I guess they just have so many more games, and its popular in several countries. Still I understood that the NBA was the most successful at getting international viewers. These numbers say different so I'm trying to figure that out

HoopDreams said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

HoopDreams said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Basketball is the sport with the big rise in popularity

---

Attendance to Pac 12 games and for most conferences is going in the opposite direction. And college viewership (TV which is measurable) is also down. So it must be the NBA . and your right. Along with record-setting attendance each of the last 3 years, the NBA set all-time marks for social media and retail. BTW, the gains have been reasonable, but look enormous compared to other sports and car racing where the numbers are mostly in the red.

BTW, the top leagues in terms of attendance are:

1) the german soccer league
2) MLB
3) India Cricket League
4) MLS
5) Premier Soccer League
6) NFL
7) Spanish Soccer League
8) Three more Soccer Leagues
9) NBA

And before you get too excited about basketball, if the wikipedia is to be believed, more people watch golf, baseball, volleyball, table tennis, tennis, field hockey (almost 3 times more than basketball), cricket (4x more), and soccer (way more). About the same number watch football as basketball.

---

are you talking about the U.S.?
also, I think 'attendence' is different than viewers

---

The US: of course not. India Cricket League has higher attendance in the US?

Watch apparently is attendance and TV if that is where you were headed with your second sentence.

---

Well, I would think 'attendence' means going to the game, and not include TV, which is why I asked for clarification. The only way I can imagine these numbers are to include TV viewers.

I am also just trying to figure out why MLB is so high. I guess they just have so many more games, and its popular in several countries. Still I understood that the NBA was the most successful at getting international viewers. These numbers say different so I'm trying to figure that out

---

I believe his list is actual attendance and his statement at the end is both attend and watch on TV.

MLB has twice as many games as NBA and much larger venues. Average about 30K per game and NBA about 18K. I would think you'd be more surprised at MLS' ranking on the list.

wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Basketball is the sport with the big rise in popularity

---

Attendance to Pac 12 games and for most conferences is going in the opposite direction. And college viewership (TV which is measurable) is also down. So it must be the NBA . and your right. Along with record-setting attendance each of the last 3 years, the NBA set all-time marks for social media and retail. BTW, the gains have been reasonable, but look enormous compared to other sports and car racing where the numbers are mostly in the red.

BTW, the top leagues in terms of attendance are:

1) the german soccer league
2) MLB
3) India Cricket League
4) MLS
5) Premier Soccer League
6) NFL
7) Spanish Soccer League
8) Three more Soccer Leagues
9) NBA

And before you get too excited about basketball, if the wikipedia is to be believed, more people watch golf, baseball, volleyball, table tennis, tennis, field hockey (almost 3 times more than basketball), cricket (4x more), and soccer (way more). About the same number watch football as basketball.

---

Not sure what your list is, but MLB is by far the most attended sports league in the world, and it's not even close.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures

NFL actually outdraws the bundesliga by a good amount as well, though it's close on a per team basis.

This hysteria will die down. The North Bay Youth Football League is already starting to recover. People will realize that they have been living with this risk all along and that football players generally become successful members of society at higher rates than the general population.

The list of most attended sports is irrelevant. The only important list is most eyeballs on TV - and by that metric, the NFL is far and away dominant over every other sport (almost combined!).

Don't believe me? Just think about why we have so few 12:30pm game times and so many 7pm kickoffs.

Until meaningless preseason NFL games stop outperforming critical NBA playoff games, we're going to have football in our society.

Rushinbear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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TandemBear said:

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Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

Soccer also benefits because little kids can kick a ball well before they can shoot it, swing a stick at it, run the bases, etc... It's the first sport that kids can actually play a game in.

oski003 said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

Soccer also benefits because little kids can kick a ball well before they can shoot it, swing a stick at it, run the bases, etc... It's the first sport that kids can actually play a game in.

---

So, we'll get them preoccupied in an activity that discourages them from developing hand-eye coordination? By the way, if they can kick a ball, they can run the bases, or run to the endzone carrying a football.

socaliganbear said:

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https://abc7news.com/sports/surfing-is-now-californias-official-sport/4011171/

When do we get our co-ed surf team?

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But no going out in waves over 1'. Way too dangerous!

oski003 said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

TandemBear said:

---

Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

---

No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

---

Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

---

And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

---

Soccer also benefits because little kids can kick a ball well before they can shoot it, swing a stick at it, run the bases, etc... It's the first sport that kids can actually play a game in.

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I don't agree compared to baseball. You can easily teach a 5 or 6 year old to hit a ball off a tee, run the bases, pick up a rolling ball and throw it with as much proficiency as they can kick a soccer ball. Sure, they can kick it. Can they aim it? Can they pass it? Can they shoot it. Can they get in position? Or do they just run around at random, kicking a ball, sometimes in the general direction they want it to go, sometimes not. I'll grant you that dropping a baseball or swinging and missing is often a much more obvious mistake than shanking a kick, but I think that is much more concerning to parents than it is to a six year old. I don't think six year olds are more proficient at soccer than baseball. Further, it is kind of good to have obvious mistakes at that age because learning from mistakes is a crucial skill in sports and in life, and it is a skill that is easier to learn when you are younger before society fully indoctrinates a kid on the concept that losing a game is failure and humiliation.

Where soccer does have an advantage is, as a continuous play sport, you stick the kids on the field and they think they are always doing something as opposed to baseball where you wait to bat or wait for someone to hit it to you.

I'm thinking 2-3 year olds, not 6 year olds. It's just the first sport they can play. You can teach a 2 year old to kick a ball in the net.

Cost for equipment, injuries, showboating, emphasis on size (bigger players get best consideration)....all of these are factors.

Rugby, on the other hand, is growing. Players don't need to be 300 pounds, get to play both offense and defense, cost is minimal, rugby etiquette keeps showboating and taunting at a minimum, and injuries are lessened because rugby requires proper tackling technique.

A high majority of h.s. players I've spoken to who play both football and rugby indicate they prefer rugby. Why not? You get to play both offense and defense, you don't have to deal with all those pads, and you get to play a contact sport where there is respect on both sides.

I'll continue to enjoy my college football. The color and pageantry of college football is hard to beat. College football is a spectacle. But for comradeship, sportsmanship, respect and pure athletic competition, I prefer rugby, and Cal Rugby games are a particularly great experience.

oski003 said:

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I'm thinking 2-3 year olds, not 6 year olds. It's just the first sport they can play. You can teach a 2 year old to kick a ball in the net.

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Played whiffle ball with my daughter at 3. Having coached some youth sports I don't think they are hooked on a sport at 6 let alone in the back yard at 2. Very few kids are dedicated to a sport at that age. If they were, professional Mr. Fox leagues would be sprouting up everywhere

For the foreseeable future, if Cal decides to wind down its football program, it might as well decide to wind down its whole athletic program.

Bear_Territory said:

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For the foreseeable future, if Cal decides to wind down its football program, it might as well decide to wind down its whole athletic program.

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2050 is when the bulk of the stadium debt will be repaid. If football is still bringing in TV and conference $$ - and making a profit- one really can't jump off the big time football train until after then. Unless there are greatly rising insurance/liability costs that render football not profitable at all - as in to the point where not playing costs less than playing ( the stadium debt being a sunk cost is irrelavent to that accounting).

Wonder how those ESP donation contracts read with respect to that scenario.

ColoradoBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Basketball is the sport with the big rise in popularity

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Attendance to Pac 12 games and for most conferences is going in the opposite direction. And college viewership (TV which is measurable) is also down. So it must be the NBA . and your right. Along with record-setting attendance each of the last 3 years, the NBA set all-time marks for social media and retail. BTW, the gains have been reasonable, but look enormous compared to other sports and car racing where the numbers are mostly in the red.

BTW, the top leagues in terms of attendance are:

1) the german soccer league
2) MLB
3) India Cricket League
4) MLS
5) Premier Soccer League
6) NFL
7) Spanish Soccer League
8) Three more Soccer Leagues
9) NBA

And before you get too excited about basketball, if the wikipedia is to be believed, more people watch golf, baseball, volleyball, table tennis, tennis, field hockey (almost 3 times more than basketball), cricket (4x more), and soccer (way more). About the same number watch football as basketball.

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Not sure what your list is, but MLB is by far the most attended sports league in the world, and it's not even close.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_attendance_figures

NFL actually outdraws the bundesliga by a good amount as well, though it's close on a per team basis.

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I can see that I should have quoted sources and understood there are many ways to gauge popularity.

Let's start off with something that matters from Business Week:

Top Sports Leagues by Revenue

• National Football League (NFL)
  
  • USA - American Football - Revenue: $13 billion
• Major League Baseball (MLB)
  
  • USA/Canada - Baseball - Revenue: $9.5 billion
• Premier League
  
  • England/Wales - Association Football - Revenue: $5.3 billion
• National Basketball Association (NBA)
  
  • USA/Canada - Basketball - Revenue: $4.8 billion
• National Hockey League (NHL)
  
  • USA/Canada - Revenue: $3.7 billion
• Bundesliga
  
  • Germany - Association Football - Revenue: $2.8 billion
• La Liga
  
  • Spain - Association Football - Revenue: $2.2 billion
• Serie A
  
  • Italy - Association Football - Revenue: $1.9 billion
• Ligue 1
  
  • France/Monaco - Association Football - Revenue: $1.5 billion
• Nippon Professional Baseball
• Japan - Baseball - Revenue: $1.1 billion

Here is leagues by average attendance:

Top 10 most watched sports leagues in the world https://www.sportskeeda.com/slideshow/top-10-most-watched-sports-leagues-world?utm_source=sportskeeda.com&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=ShareArticle via @sportskeeda

Leagues by attendance and TV: Top 10 Most Popular Sports Leagues From Around The World non-newz.com

Don't ask me how they got the numbers.

And now by sports: The Most Popular Sports in the World - WorldAtlas.com - https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-most-popular-spoworld.htmlrts-in-the-

Don't ask me how did world atlas get its numbers????

Anyway you measure it, the NFL is the most lucrative and soccer the most popular.

Rushinbear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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TandemBear said:

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Headers in soccer a problem?

Quick fix: no more headers. This impacts the game, but not that much, especially at the youth levels. East Bay United Soccer already prohibits heading the ball for all under 10 players. I would have no problem prohibiting it from all youth play. Even adult play; doing so would definitely eliminate most, if not all, head-to-head accidental contact.

BTW, Memorial would be a great site for a velodrome. Let's make cycling a division 1 sport!

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No more headers for girls until they reach a certain age. I'm not sure you gain much taking headers out of the game for adults for example. Its hard enough to see any scoring in a match as it is.

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Wife, again you are a young sprout, but without the values...."to see any scoring"in a match....Do you really realize that this is not at all what soccer is all about?.....It is getting a one goal lead and protecting as the other team attacks. It is striving for a two goal lead and hoping you hang on. It is being the weaker side and doing everything to take it to OT then PKs (the worst futbol result) and winning....It is a glorious chess match that involves probably better athleticism than FB for sure....Sit back, relax, give futbol (soccer) a shot....It is really much more chess like than FB ever was, and I am a FB lover, but will not give an inch on the reality of what soccer is.

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And, falling down with "owwies." And, everyone remarking on "what a lovely ball that was." And, taking a nap only to discover that there had been no scoring - you hadn't missed a thing...except a few "lovely balls."

Granted, soccer is a sport, but it exists primarily because it is one of the few sports that can be played by kids who can't afford the equipment of other sports.

To fix football, put the players in rugby outfits, with vestigial helmets, maybe, play it on grass and take away the cleats. Like the old, old days when people had common sense (yeah, I know, there were deaths, but that was because of flying wedge rules, primarily.). Or, you could change to rugby, as did TR.

One of the biggest causes of injury in football is the first down. When a few inches, one way or the other, no longer matters on a given play, except at the goalline, the need to contest a tackle at all costs goes way down.

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Certainly the flopping has been a problem - particularly highlighted by Neymar during the World Cup. But there's flopping in the NBA also. It's something that continues to be looked at and corrected.

I will say that your comment that kids only go to soccer because they can afford it is incorrect. Recreational soccer is a bargain. I'm a U12 Girls coach and it's about $90 to register and get a uniform for a 10 game season. If you want to go comp or club soccer - the cost can approach $2000 for the kit, ref fees, coaches fees, tourney fees and it excludes hotels and travel. But this is a major talking point on how the game moves forward in the US. It's called "pay to play".

There are playoffs in MLS but it's a straight table run in the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Bundesliga.

Went to a a highschool football game 2 weeks in a row here in the OC. First game was MD vs Bishop Amat. MD killed it but played young. Bishop Amat looked decent with good size. Second game was Mission Viejo vs Santa Margarita. Kids looked kinda small maybe 5-8 big kids. Quality of game did not look good. Both teams would be in trouble when playing MD or Bishop Amat. Talked to a Mission Viejo retired coach who told me the last four years the quality of play has gone down. Now freshmen enrollment there went from 100 to 50 and MV has no JV team anymore. Future NFL is a problem if this continued.

Northside91 said:

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bearchamp said:

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Undoubtedly some of this injury concerns. People should face the fact that football as we know it is not long for this world. Just a matter of time before some big universities abandon it for ethical reasons. I wonder why Cal is not a leader.

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Should be interesting to see how Cal manages the program after JW leaves after this season or (latest) next. I wouldn't be surprised to see the university start winding up football at that time.

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I've posted a lot of information about CTE & subconcussive neuron damage on FG.

That said, you both are delusional. Time to cut down on the MMJ. Seriously.

Rushinbear said:

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oskirules said:

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Futbol is on the upswing.

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Until the forwards start to pick up the ball and run with it. Then, we'll have rugby, nationwide. You know they want to.

What kind of sport is it that doesn't test the most important athletic skill - hand-eye coordination?

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Yes. We have been losing high school football players to club rugby for several years. It's only been recently that our football HC has linked in with the rugby players to make football more accessible. The loss to football has been huge. Talented both with size and coordination like Rushinbear suggests, football is suffering. Rugby has more international links than American gridiron, seems to have less serious injuries (due to no weaponizing equipment) and tackling rules, is cheaper (all you need is a ball), is more flowing, and everyone essentially can carry the ball.

It's a highly aggressive, physical sport based on violent contact. It's modern day gladiators where prisoners are not taken. It can't be played any other way in spite of protective rules and "safer" equipment. It's not the military since winning doesn't require killing. But like the military, it requires incredible mental and physical training, loyalty to the team and a common goal. Who wants to do that today? Your son? Um, no. How about water polo? Tennis? Golf? Volleyball? Soccer? Swimming? Sailing? Cross Country? Even lacrosse and wrestling are less violent.

Form the the OC Register, per CIF Commissioner Wigod...Excerpt

This time, though, we talked participation numbers, particularly those for football. The state CIF and subsequently the national federation of high school associations both released figures that essentially said the same thing. Overall participation is up but football is down, precipitously. In California alone, there's a 2.8 percent drop from a year ago, decreases each of the past three years and six of the past eight, and an overall 12 percent drop in participation numbers over the past 11 years.
"There's concern about the declining numbers because we believe that all students should be involved in something," Wigod said. "We want kids to participate.
"I keep seeing what you see. What I guess I wonder about a little bit is, you know, to me football probably became safer in the last 20 to 25 years than it may have been certainly 25 years ago, and maybe safer than it has been."

Goobear said:

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Form the the OC Register, per CIF Commissioner Wigod...Excerpt

This time, though, we talked participation numbers, particularly those for football. The state CIF and subsequently the national federation of high school associations both released figures that essentially said the same thing. Overall participation is up but football is down, precipitously. In California alone, there's a 2.8 percent drop from a year ago, decreases each of the past three years and six of the past eight, and an overall 12 percent drop in participation numbers over the past 11 years.
"There's concern about the declining numbers because we believe that all students should be involved in something," Wigod said. "We want kids to participate.
"I keep seeing what you see. What I guess I wonder about a little bit is, you know, to me football probably became safer in the last 20 to 25 years than it may have been certainly 25 years ago, and maybe safer than it has been."

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Rob Wigod should know, he played football a bit after me in the Moore League and is a great CIF boss. The notion of "safer" football doesn't mean less injuries, but changes in equipment and rules have perhaps reduced the gravity of them. No more spearing or leading with the head. No more crack back blocks. No more head high tackles or clothes lining. No horse collar tackles. More protection for the passer in the pocket rule-wise. Incredibly safer helmets than the egg shell suspension helmets that Rob and I wore. How about the evolution of sports medicine? That has been huge. Our trainer was a long shore man with a tackle box full of smelling salts, Ben Gay and bandaids. We didn't lift weights and knew nothing about core training, stretching correctly, or complimentary muscle groups. Concussion protocol? What was that? We got "stingers" and went back in the game. I got my broken nose fixed and also three stitches on my chin at halftime in two different games by our untrained trainer. Sports nutrition? We weren't even allowed to drink water! (made you tougher). Yes, safer now perhaps, but then again, players today are much bigger and stronger than in our day. Our league championship line averaged 180. I was all league guard/Lber at 160. Football is dying because there is too much else to do, and you have to be violently aggressive to succeed.

72CalBear said:

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Goobear said:

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Form the the OC Register, per CIF Commissioner Wigod...Excerpt

This time, though, we talked participation numbers, particularly those for football. The state CIF and subsequently the national federation of high school associations both released figures that essentially said the same thing. Overall participation is up but football is down, precipitously. In California alone, there's a 2.8 percent drop from a year ago, decreases each of the past three years and six of the past eight, and an overall 12 percent drop in participation numbers over the past 11 years.
"There's concern about the declining numbers because we believe that all students should be involved in something," Wigod said. "We want kids to participate.
"I keep seeing what you see. What I guess I wonder about a little bit is, you know, to me football probably became safer in the last 20 to 25 years than it may have been certainly 25 years ago, and maybe safer than it has been."

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Yes, safer now perhaps, but then again, players today are much bigger and stronger than in our day. Our league championship line averaged 180. I was all league guard/Lber at 160.

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This is the biggest factor in the occurrence and severity of current football injuries in spite of all the improvements in equipment and medical oversight. Put a weight limit of 200 pounds on all players, and you'll see the incidents of serious injuries go way down.

"The danger is if the NFL becomes the tobacco industry of sports where there is enough of a movement against it to actually force changes. I don't know, though. We are already talking about a sport that can have gruesome injuries actually on the field for all to see. I'm not sure that guys mostly seeing effects after they have left and are out of the public eye is really going to move the needle. We are a country that believes in individual choice and as long as there are relatively poor people with no other means of earning that kind of a living, there will be people willing to participate."

I think the NFL is not at all worried about any forced changes.

What would really terrify them would be eliminating government subsidies -- building stadiums, tax subsidies, tax deductions for tickets and luxury boxes, police security, military support (flag football), etc.