Is Bowers injured, lost his mojo, lost the job after 1.5 quarters of play,

wifeisafurd
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Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?
PTBear
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Reports from practice were that our kicking was very inconsistent.

Considering the time left, if we did get the first down, BYU wouldn't have had time to get 2 drives in and so we would have effectively won the game.
sycasey
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Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
tigertim
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I'm fine with going for it. If we get that first down the game is over. And our defense was lockdown. The probability of BYU getting a TD, a 2 point conversion, covering an onside kick, and then scoring a TD was pretty minimal.
wifeisafurd
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PTBear said:

Reports from practice were that our kicking was very inconsistent.

Considering the time left, if we did get the first down, BYU wouldn't have had time to get 2 drives in and so we would have effectively won the game.
Yes, but if they score a 2 point conversion, the field just got a lot shorter because they only need a field goal. Coaches go for points. Also that tine left also included an interception, running a set of downs and a punt, so I'm not buying the argument about effectively wining the game either.
wifeisafurd
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Does that mean we giving up on field goal beyond the length of extra points?
wifeisafurd
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sycasey said:

Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
wow great reporting by the media and the like. And why was Bowers getting all those reps that should have gone to the other QBs? Beginning to sound like the OC doesn't know what he is doing and the defense is saving his butt.
golden sloth
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wifeisafurd said:

PTBear said:

Reports from practice were that our kicking was very inconsistent.

Considering the time left, if we did get the first down, BYU wouldn't have had time to get 2 drives in and so we would have effectively won the game.
Yes, but if they score a 2 point conversion, the field just got a lot shorter because they only need a field goal. Coaches go for points. Also that tine left also included an interception, running a set of downs and a punt, so I'm not buying the argument about effectively wining the game either.
I was down going for it, and I think the decision was not made by lack of confidence in the kicking game. As mentioned, Cal was moving the ball well, and if converted, the time in the game gets drained, or you get a TD which would have put the game away.
75bear
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wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.
Big C
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wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?
I've only been watching Cal Football for a little over five years, but here's what I think the deal is: We can have EITHER a good offense and a lousy defense, OR a good defense and a lousy offense, but not both. Whoever's Head Coach gets to pick which one.
golden sloth
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Regarding Bowers

I think he just got outplayed. Both Garbers and McIlwain looked better tonight than Bowers did the last half of the season.
sycasey
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wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
wow great reporting by the media and the like. And why was Bowers getting all those reps that should have gone to the other QBs? Beginning to sound like the OC doesn't know what he is doing and the defense is saving his butt.


Not sure what you're getting at. Coaches always sandbag the media, so what? They gave all three QBs a chance to play in Week 1 and Bowers played himself off the field. The staff wanted to see how the players responded to live game play. I have no objection to that.
sycasey
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75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.


Also, a missed FG means the ball is spotted closer to your own goal line. Miss on 4th down and it's left at the original spot (unless it's a sack or something). Makes sense if you don't have great confidence in the kicker.
tequila4kapp
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It's unconventional but it seems to me the staff is acknowledging nobody has taken the QB job and ran with it, and they are going to play the people that earn it and sit those who don't. It's the anti-Tedford...and when I think of it that way it seems better. Bowers had a full season to prove himself. Obviously they feel like he isn't getting it done.
heartofthebear
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Bowers is really horrible at reading pressure and so he gets sacked too often.
I don't see that so much with the other guys.

Bowers might be a better passer than the other two.
But he usually 3rd and long because he gets sacked on 2nd down.
75bear
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sycasey said:

75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.


Also, a missed FG means the ball is spotted closer to your own goal line. Miss on 4th down and it's left at the original spot (unless it's a sack or something). Makes sense if you don't have great confidence in the kicker.


A missed FG is spotted at the line of scrimmage in College. NFL spots it where the kick took place.
hanky1
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Lots of ticky tack penalties from the officials. Typical of Pac-12 refs
wifeisafurd
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sycasey said:

75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.


Also, a missed FG means the ball is spotted closer to your own goal line. Miss on 4th down and it's left at the original spot (unless it's a sack or something). Makes sense if you don't have great confidence in the kicker.
The line of scrimmage for the field goal would have been the Utah 20. Instead they started on the 18 or 19.
wifeisafurd
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sycasey said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
wow great reporting by the media and the like. And why was Bowers getting all those reps that should have gone to the other QBs? Beginning to sound like the OC doesn't know what he is doing and the defense is saving his butt.


Not sure what you're getting at. Coaches always sandbag the media, so what? They gave all three QBs a chance to play in Week 1 and Bowers played himself off the field. The staff wanted to see how the players responded to live game play. I have no objection to that.
If they thought Garbers was close, why so few reps and in particular first string reps? He would be better prepared at this point.
NVGolfingBear
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The refs were from another conference hanky, Big 12 I think.
75bear
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hanky1 said:

Lots of ticky tack penalties from the officials. Typical of Pac-12 refs


Except they were Big 12 refs.
golden sloth
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hanky1 said:

Lots of ticky tack penalties from the officials. Typical of Pac-12 refs
It was a Big 12 crew
sycasey
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75bear said:

sycasey said:

75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.


Also, a missed FG means the ball is spotted closer to your own goal line. Miss on 4th down and it's left at the original spot (unless it's a sack or something). Makes sense if you don't have great confidence in the kicker.


A missed FG is spotted at the line of scrimmage in College. NFL spots it where the kick took place.
Ah ok. I thought it was the same for both. Point withdrawn!
golden sloth
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My personal speculation (and it is just specualtion) is that Garbers started putting things together late in fall camp, and McIlwain is still too inconsistent deep, while Bowers did look better in practice and had a full season as the starter, so they chose him. Then in the first few possessions against UNC he regressed back into bad habits, and Baldwin yanked him. When the other QBs performed better they went with the other QBs.

Also, our run game with Laird is not good right now, so having a QB that can run is vital, both in creating misdirection and hesitation from the defense. Bowers isn't nearly as strong of a runner as both Garbers and McIlwain.
sycasey
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wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
wow great reporting by the media and the like. And why was Bowers getting all those reps that should have gone to the other QBs? Beginning to sound like the OC doesn't know what he is doing and the defense is saving his butt.


Not sure what you're getting at. Coaches always sandbag the media, so what? They gave all three QBs a chance to play in Week 1 and Bowers played himself off the field. The staff wanted to see how the players responded to live game play. I have no objection to that.
If they thought Garbers was close, why so few reps and in particular first string reps? He would be better prepared at this point.
Not having been at practice, I cannot answer that.
sycasey
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golden sloth said:

Also, our run game with Laird is not good right now, so having a QB that can run is vital, both in creating misdirection and hesitation from the defense. Bowers isn't nearly as strong of a runner as both Garbers and McIlwain.
And the run game is not good with Laird because both defenses that have played Cal are coming into the game thinking he's the key player they need to shut down. He has no space. If the QB is also a threat then that should open things up for Laird again.
FuzzyWuzzy
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sycasey said:

75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.


Also, a missed FG means the ball is spotted closer to your own goal line. Miss on 4th down and it's left at the original spot (unless it's a sack or something). Makes sense if you don't have great confidence in the kicker.
Nah, a missed FG means the ball is spotted at the original spot. A turnover on downs would have been nearly identical. But I agreed with the call, as I think you do.
sycasey
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75bear said:

wifeisafurd said:

Not sure what is worse, the use of QBs (except on the last set of downs with runs for the first down to ice game) or strange play calling. We overcome 3 turnovers, many bad penalties, and just messy play. The offense looks high school and the defense looks like the NFL. What an utterly bizarre team.

And special teams is just weird. No college coach would go for 4th and 3 with a chance to kick a short field goal. Do we no longer have that ability?


I respectfully disagree Wife - I liked the call to go for it on 4th down vs. the FG (if you want to quibble with the play call I won't defend that). It's a slightly aggressive call, but a huge advantage if the 1st down is gained in using up clock. And not making it means our strongest unit gets on the field with BYU deep in their territory. A 14 vs. 11 point lead isn't a huge difference when there isn't much time left in the game.

Some college coaches would play it conservative and go FG, but def not all.
Anyway, returning to this. I agree with the logic to go for the first down. It was 4th and 2, very makeable yardage. I think the stats say you should pretty much always go for it at that distance. It would not have been an easy chip-shot field goal.

I just didn't care for the play call, with McIlwain retreating from the line. Obviously they hoped to fool BYU and get someone wide open. Didn't happen.
JimSox
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wifeisafurd said:

The line of scrimmage for the field goal would have been the Utah 20. Instead they started on the 18 or 19.
And here I thought we were playing BYU. My bad.
But, to be serious, I thought they should have kicked. It's a what, 37 yard field goal attempt? If the coaches don't have confidence we can make that pretty consistently, we've got trouble.
gpost17
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I disagree. Garbers isn't better than a guy who threw for over 3,000 yards and had 18 touchdowns last year. Bowers is the leading returning passer in the whole conference. I want to see Bowers and McIlwain rotating and Garbers on the bench.
oskirules
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We'll get our answer soon if a reporter will manage to ask the right question.
FuzzyWuzzy
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JimSox said:

wifeisafurd said:

The line of scrimmage for the field goal would have been the Utah 20. Instead they started on the 18 or 19.
And here I thought we were playing BYU. My bad.
But, to be serious, I thought they should have kicked. It's a what, 37 yard field goal attempt? If the coaches don't have confidence we can make that pretty consistently, we've got trouble.

If we are in the third quarter, I agree. But it was starting to get late in the 4th with a lead, and JW was going jugular. I support the call in that situation. A first down there burns more clock making it much more difficult for BYU to come back, even if we ultimately have to settle or a FG try. A TD probably puts the game away. And they were doing nothing against our defense.
CannonBlast
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28?! Did I miss some games where he threw the other 10 TDs? I think Browning is the returning passer by most measures. But I get your point.
GMP
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wifeisafurd said:

PTBear said:

Reports from practice were that our kicking was very inconsistent.

Considering the time left, if we did get the first down, BYU wouldn't have had time to get 2 drives in and so we would have effectively won the game.
Yes, but if they score a 2 point conversion, the field just got a lot shorter because they only need a field goal. Coaches go for points. Also that tine left also included an interception, running a set of downs and a punt, so I'm not buying the argument about effectively wining the game either.
Go home, you're drunk.
calumnus
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sycasey said:

wifeisafurd said:

sycasey said:

Bowers is not as good as the other two guys, that's what happened.
wow great reporting by the media and the like. And why was Bowers getting all those reps that should have gone to the other QBs? Beginning to sound like the OC doesn't know what he is doing and the defense is saving his butt.


Not sure what you're getting at. Coaches always sandbag the media, so what? They gave all three QBs a chance to play in Week 1 and Bowers played himself off the field. The staff wanted to see how the players responded to live game play. I have no objection to that.


Especially since we won anyway. Still, I'd like to see Garbers and McIlwain get entire series instead of switching back and forth within series. They both can run and they both can throw, right now it is too much of a tell when McIllwain is in (though now he should fake the run up the middle, then roll out).
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