From your lips to God's mouth, as the saying goes, but I'm always a little leery about kudos to new players who have a great performance ... against a subpar team.

I think from the limited amount of reps we saw v. Idaho State, Laird, Dancy and Brown all bring different things to the table, and we will need them all throughout the year.

chalcidbear said:

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From your lips to God's mouth, as the saying goes, but I'm always a little leery about kudos to new players who have a great performance ... against a subpar team.

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I'm oddly aroused by this imagery.

chalcidbear said:

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From your lips to God's mouth, as the saying goes, but I'm always a little leery about kudos to new players who have a great performance ... against a subpar team.

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His H.S. tapes are, speaking conservatively, a cut above -- What I really think is that they are astounding.

Laird has shown his limits against a loaded box. Dancy looks like the kind of backs we had in the mid 2000s. I really hope Baldwin recognizes what he has in Dancy and gives him the rock 20 times. He looks like a 1000 yards in his sleep kinda back.

tim94501 said:

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Laird has shown his limits against a loaded box. Dancy looks like the kind of backs we had in the mid 2000s. I really hope Baldwin recognizes what he has in Dancy and gives him the rock 20 times. He looks like a 1000 yards in his sleep kinda back.

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Laird did better last year bouncing outside when teams loaded the box. Whether injury or rust (held out of fall camp) we haven't seen that from him this year. Hopefully he gets his quickness and shiftiness back.

Agree, Dancy looks electric, better than Laird now and possibly better than Laird even when healthy. Glad we have them both. Crazy that so many of our best players are current/former walk-ons.

calumnus said:

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tim94501 said:

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Laird has shown his limits against a loaded box. Dancy looks like the kind of backs we had in the mid 2000s. I really hope Baldwin recognizes what he has in Dancy and gives him the rock 20 times. He looks like a 1000 yards in his sleep kinda back.

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Laird did better last year bouncing outside when teams loaded the box. Whether injury or rust (held out of fall camp) we haven't seen that from him this year. Hopefully he gets his quickness and shiftiness back.

Agree, Dancy looks electric, better than Laird now and possibly better than Laird even when healthy. Glad we have them both. Crazy that so many of our best players are current/former walk-ons.

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It's like in hoops remember Braun was able to get some high performing walkons like Ryan Forehan-Kelly.

Start Dancy against Oregon. It's crucial to establish the run from the beginning.

chalcidbear said:

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From your lips to God's mouth, as the saying goes, but I'm always a little leery about kudos to new players who have a great performance ... against a subpar team.

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Laird had a subpar performance against a subpar team, Dancy was better.

calumnus said:

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tim94501 said:

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Laird has shown his limits against a loaded box. Dancy looks like the kind of backs we had in the mid 2000s. I really hope Baldwin recognizes what he has in Dancy and gives him the rock 20 times. He looks like a 1000 yards in his sleep kinda back.

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Laird did better last year bouncing outside when teams loaded the box. Whether injury or rust (held out of fall camp) we haven't seen that from him this year. Hopefully he gets his quickness and shiftiness back.

Agree, Dancy looks electric, better than Laird now and possibly better than Laird even when healthy. Glad we have them both. Crazy that so many of our best players are current/former walk-ons.

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It seems that run blocking by our o-line has regressed, in addition to Laird's running.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Laird and McCaffrey are way different backs, sorry. I don't care what size they're listed at, Laird is taller, while McCaffrey is thicker. Laird has decent speed and quickness, but McCaffrey is faster and quicker, also more elusive and fluid. McCaffrey is a better all-around back than Laird was last year. So far, Laird is not as good as he was last year.

Let's be realistic... and I hate Furd and am a big fan of Laird.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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He's received patience already thru the first three games.

The fear is what happens if this is how the o-line plays all year? At that point, you need a back who can make people miss and not a patient back.

I've said this before, but laird is the type of back you want with a power running team with a dominant o-line.

Dancy is a much better fit for this type of offense and is a much better pairing with garbers/mcllwain

Laird was probably a better fit with Bowers when we were running a more conventional offense

ducky23 said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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He's received patience already thru the first three games.

The fear is what happens if this is how the o-line plays all year? At that point, you need a back who can make people miss and not a patient back.

I've said this before, but laird is the type of back you want with a power running team with a dominant o-line.

Dancy is a much better fit for this type of offense and is a much better pairing with garbers/mcllwain

Laird was probably a better fit with Bowers when we were running a more conventional offense

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We did not run a "conventional" offense last year. We played spread, with multiple receivers, no TEs, sometimes empty backfield and a couple of times each game we would have a FB.

I agree Laird would be better in a more conventional power running attack, which is what I think we should have moved toward last year. However, he was far better suited to spread than Enwere, who really was best suited for power running.

Now that we have two QB with running ability and have added Duncan and Ways at WR, the read option spread is a very viable option.

I think a healthy Laird is still a great RB, no matter what offense we run. With Dancy, it is not either or, but both. Give them both reps and give the weight of the reps to the RB that is having the better game.

The Ducks run D is currently #5 in the nation in yards per carry allowed. I imagine that will be very much tested against Stanford. Oregon was #20 last year against the run, 2nd in the Pac-12 after UW. They likely will have a good run D again, and should present a good test for us.

Big C said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Laird and McCaffrey are way different backs, sorry. I don't care what size they're listed at, Laird is taller, while McCaffrey is thicker. Laird has decent speed and quickness, but McCaffrey is faster and quicker, also more elusive and fluid. McCaffrey is a better all-around back than Laird was last year. So far, Laird is not as good as he was last year.

Let's be realistic... and I hate Furd and am a big fan of Laird.

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I didn't actually compare them as backs, only their size. I will stand by what I said on that subject - they are for all intents and purposes the same size. I made that point to counter the argument, made on this board, that PL is too small to be an every down back.

But since you brought up the topic of comparing them as backs, it is amazing how much better a back looks when he is getting good blocking up front. A back with holes to run through always looks faster, quicker, more elusive and more fluid.

ducky23 said:

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The fear is what happens if this is how the o-line plays all year?

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Then we're in trouble no matter who the RB and QB are.

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Big C said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Laird and McCaffrey are way different backs, sorry. I don't care what size they're listed at, Laird is taller, while McCaffrey is thicker. Laird has decent speed and quickness, but McCaffrey is faster and quicker, also more elusive and fluid. McCaffrey is a better all-around back than Laird was last year. So far, Laird is not as good as he was last year.

Let's be realistic... and I hate Furd and am a big fan of Laird.

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I didn't actually compare them as backs, only their size. I will stand by what I said on that subject - they are for all intents and purposes the same size. I made that point to counter the argument, made on this board, that PL is too small to be an every down back.

But since you brought up the topic of comparing them as backs, it is amazing how much better a back looks when he is getting good blocking up front. A back with holes to run through always looks faster, quicker, more elusive and more fluid.

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Laird had almost McCaffrey-esque numbers last year on a per-play basis. Not quite as good, but close. I'm really bummed he's been so lousy this season - realize it's only three games, but he was bad last week too and their line wasn't good. Maybe it's a nagging injury..

Just finished watching the 60min version on pac-12 networks.

Agree with all of the above. Oh, You Dancy huh??? Great cuts and vision - wish we had seen more of him the last couple games. Also, Chris Brown looks pretty legit too!! Going to enjoy watching these guys contribute the next few years.

Still hoping laird turns it around and has a massive season. Maybe put the books down a bit and study film

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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Big C said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Laird and McCaffrey are way different backs, sorry. I don't care what size they're listed at, Laird is taller, while McCaffrey is thicker. Laird has decent speed and quickness, but McCaffrey is faster and quicker, also more elusive and fluid. McCaffrey is a better all-around back than Laird was last year. So far, Laird is not as good as he was last year.

Let's be realistic... and I hate Furd and am a big fan of Laird.

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I didn't actually compare them as backs, only their size. I will stand by what I said on that subject - they are for all intents and purposes the same size. I made that point to counter the argument, made on this board, that PL is too small to be an every down back.

But since you brought up the topic of comparing them as backs, it is amazing how much better a back looks when he is getting good blocking up front. A back with holes to run through always looks faster, quicker, more elusive and more fluid.

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Yes, I know you were mainly comparing their size... I sorta got off on a tangent.

I'm guessing if you put the two next to each other, they would weigh about the same, but Laird would be 1-2 inches taller. Laird is a decent-sized running back, to be sure (at least for college). Last year, he looked talented and skilled in all respects. I hope we see more of that again. I'm a huge Laird fan. (Who isn't!)

FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Who was the Cal RB that had the long TD run called back because of holding?

edg64 said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Who was the Cal RB that had the long TD run called back because of holding?

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I didn't go back and watch but would he have had that long run if it weren't for the hold?

fat_slice said:

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edg64 said:

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FuzzyWuzzy said:

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You guys are giving up on Patrick too easily. HIs main problem is that he hasn't had much in the way of blocking this year. He is turning losses of 4 into gains of 1 and gains of 1 into gains of 5, all of which is coming out to 3 ypc. He has excellent vision, makes people miss, and is the best cutback runner we have had in a long time. At 6-0 205 - same size as C McCaffrey - he is big enough to be an "every down back" in the P12.

Last year the guy had 11 or 1200 rushing yards in 8 starts? He has earned some patience.

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Who was the Cal RB that had the long TD run called back because of holding?

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I didn't go back and watch but would he have had that long run if it weren't for the hold?

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There were actually two holds on the play. The more egregious one (by a cal wr which was key to the long run) was never called

FireFighterBest said:

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I rewatched the game in HD (on youtube). The player that stood out was Dancy. He was ELECTRIC! It is a small sample size (only 10 rushes and a couple of receptions) but WOW. He is fast, very agile, has incredible balance, has a low center of gravity, and has some power.

He looks to be Cal's best RB in many years. You may think I am crazy but perhaps the best since Jahvid/Vereen. I believe he will have a better CAL career than JC transfer CJ Anderson (who was nicked up quite a bit at Cal),

This Cal offense has big-time upside as Chase Garbers continues to improve and as Dancy proves to be the offensive gamebreaker that we were lacking.

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If only!

I was surprised when I looked at Roster and saw they list Dancy at 5/10, 190. If those numbers are true, his ability to do what he showed is remarkable. He didn't look 5/10 to me, more like 5/8 or 5/9 and slimmer than 190. Yet, many running backs demonstrate great ability as they hide behind the Big Ugly's and make yardage. I'm hoping Dancy stays healthy and continues to do those spins and ankle brakes. As a smaller back, he has adjusted to his height and weight and taken advantage of his less than large body type by incorporating those nifty moves through the line.

In the area of Laird versus McCaffrey, I think both guys tip-toe through the line. I think McCaffrey was the faster of the two, but Laird is no slouch. They both have great vision and above all, patience, waiting for a hole to be created and then take off. I think Laird will show what he has in upcoming games and I believe we will all be satisfied. I also agree that Chris Brown is a gem and look forward to his contribution.

I didn't mean to imply that patience means the guy stops running. Patience means he takes what the offense can give him and doesn't try to force plays. No back is going to get to the second level every time.