For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

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It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

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It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

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Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

It was last year so it's difficult to recall specifics but I remember Bowers making clutch throws on 3rd down, so I figured I'd look and there it was. No doubt he wasn't perfect but he made timely throws and of course that crazy flipping TD. The guy's a gamer. Still curious what happened, why he didn't play.

dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

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It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

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Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

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Just wait until Garbers' video comes out. You will think Aaron Rodgers has returned to Berkeley.....

hotlanta said:

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How did Bowers 2017 passing yardage compare to the 2018 Garbers/McIlwain passing yardage?

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Bowers had far more attempts. We had the 12th rated QB, a break out star at RB (averaging 5.9 ypc) but WSU was the only team that threw more than we did.

If total passing yards is the relevant metric than you must prefer McIlwain over Garbers as a passer because the game we had the most passing yards in this year was the game McIlwain started and finished, with McIlwain sitting in a porous pocket attempting 43 passes (completing 32 for 315 yds but with 3 INT).

I'm dizzied. After 38 years of sitting in CMS you see great qbs and well some that are, well, not great.. We have had great ones. Those that have been great have seen the field without the vantage point of 26 rows up and can drop dimes. Those kids are special . We need more of those kids. The current crew does not have that ability.

calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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I'm dizzied. After 38 years of sitting in CMS you see great qbs and well some that are, well, not great.. We have had great ones. Those that have been great have seen the field without the vantage point of 26 rows up and can drop dimes. Those kids are special . We need more of those kids. The current crew does not have that ability.

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There were a TON of Goff haters on this board his freshman year.

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They weren't really Goff haters as much as they were Zach Kline honks.

Yogi Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

---

It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

---

Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

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I'm laughing at anybody that uses a video of only a person's good plays to assert who is a better player. Get over yourself. Maybe someone will compile a video of all the sacks Bowers took because he didn't get rid of the ball or all the interceptions he threw vs. USC.

I personally don't think either guy has a big edge over the other, though Garbers' higher level of mobility makes him a little more desirable if the passing is close. Not likely to matter, as Bowers is likely gone.

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The fact alone that bowers is completing TDs to actually WRs is telling the pass game this year suffered tremendously from the lack of weapons on the field.

It's amazing to me that other than Bowers & the team, no one really knows what happened. I thought that by now someone would have told the story utilizing social media.

Yogi Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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cal83dls79 said:

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I'm dizzied. After 38 years of sitting in CMS you see great qbs and well some that are, well, not great.. We have had great ones. Those that have been great have seen the field without the vantage point of 26 rows up and can drop dimes. Those kids are special . We need more of those kids. The current crew does not have that ability.

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There were a TON of Goff haters on this board his freshman year.

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They weren't really Goff haters as much as they were Zach Kline honks.

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boy, I'm sure glad I wasn't around to witness that.

Yogi Bear said:

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Bear19 said:

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It's amazing to me that other than Bowers & the team, no one really knows what happened. I thought that by now someone would have told the story utilizing social media.

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I bet Brandon Chauca would get to the bottom of this for us

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another Brandon Chauca solved mystery. Kids got talent.

Yogi Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

---

It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

---

Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

---

I'm laughing at anybody that uses a video of only a person's good plays to assert who is a better player. Get over yourself. Maybe someone will compile a video of all the sacks Bowers took because he didn't get rid of the ball or all the interceptions he threw vs. USC.

I personally don't think either guy has a big edge over the other, though Garbers' higher level of mobility makes him a little more desirable if the passing is close. Not likely to matter, as Bowers is likely gone.

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Sack stats
2017 Ross Bowers 34 sacks in 461 attempts (7.4%)
2018 Chase Garbers 21 sacks in 241 attempts (8.7%)

Try again

dajo9 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

---

It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

---

Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

---

I'm laughing at anybody that uses a video of only a person's good plays to assert who is a better player. Get over yourself. Maybe someone will compile a video of all the sacks Bowers took because he didn't get rid of the ball or all the interceptions he threw vs. USC.

I personally don't think either guy has a big edge over the other, though Garbers' higher level of mobility makes him a little more desirable if the passing is close. Not likely to matter, as Bowers is likely gone.

---

Sack stats
2017 Ross Bowers 34 sacks in 461 attempts (7.4%)
2018 Chase Garbers 21 sacks in 241 attempts (8.7%)

Try again

---

The 2017 offensive line was clearly our least experienced in many years and a huge concern last season. Yet, we had a more effective offense compared to this year (yards/play, points and other metrics). It's disappointing as it is unexpected.

A more experienced team in the 2nd year under a new HC and staff should ideally show improvement, as we saw with the D, in noteworthy fashion. There were not big losses on offense from 2017 production standpoint: Stovall had no receiving yards and Robertson only 70, most of those against Weber State. The big delta of course is at QB.

We leaned on the passing game more in 2017; and it was sufficiently productive to open-up the run. Despite opposing Ds loading the line more to stop our ground game, the passing game has not been able to capitalize.

Long before Garbers entered the picture last season, I had noted that our passing game had shown a nice improvement trend over the season. For Nov games 2017:

68+% completions
6.8 y/a
133 QBR

This Nov:

54%
4.6 y/a
103 QBR

The inclusion of Stanford, the worst pass D in the conference, on 01 Dec does little to change those poor passing numbers to close the 2018 regular season...

Noah's absence is likely contributory. He was doing about 3-4 receptions a game prior.

By design, Garbers, our QBs in 2018 ran the ball. Much of the running in 2017 was due to compromised pass protection, not by design. So, of course Garbers and QBs this season have more rushing yards. They were asked to do so more often. Maybe Garbers would have been more effective if his sole purpose was to throw and only throw, and scramble only for escape-purposes...

We were more pass-heavy in 2017 and we were increasingly more effective doing so. Loading the box against such an offense is not commonsensical so the run game got improved looks. The pass attack in 2018 was seemingly unable to dictate; and that's likely why we saw more QB runs.

If Ross leaves, I wish him well. What impressed me most about him in 2017 was his moxie. There were several instances where he bounced-back after hits or bad plays and delivered. If Chase is our guy going-forward, this season, and the bowl game should have him well-primed for a better 2019...

killa22 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

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Another Bear said:

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For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

---

It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

---

Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

---

I'm laughing at anybody that uses a video of only a person's good plays to assert who is a better player. Get over yourself. Maybe someone will compile a video of all the sacks Bowers took because he didn't get rid of the ball or all the interceptions he threw vs. USC.

I personally don't think either guy has a big edge over the other, though Garbers' higher level of mobility makes him a little more desirable if the passing is close. Not likely to matter, as Bowers is likely gone.

---

The fact alone that bowers is completing TDs to actually WRs is telling the pass game this year suffered tremendously from the lack of weapons on the field.

---

While it's a highlight reel, Ross was throwing mostly to the same guys we had this year -- Wharton, Noa, Laird, Veasy etc. I don't see many passes to Robertson (he got injured) or Stovall in the video, unless I'm missing something. We kept lamenting that because we lost those guys it made it tough on Garbers and McIlwain. Yes Ross had Veasy (who was very good in the red zone), but he wasn't a burner either and we added Moe Ways and then got Duncan back. I think what is significant is losing Noa since UW. He is a guy we needed to move the chains.

Noa, Wharton, and Laird all look way faster in the 2017 highlights than what we saw this year. It's probably the fact it's a highlight reel, but maybe they all pulled their hamstrings during a WR drill this summer.

KoreAmBear said:

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killa22 said:

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Yogi Bear said:

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dajo9 said:

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71Bear said:

---

Another Bear said:

---

For those stat adverse types, look at this. Bowers makes some clutch 3rd down conversions.

---

It's quite a stretch when you have to reach into a guy's highlight film to attempt to prove a point.

---

Can't use stats. Can't use film. We just have to take Garbers fans word for it.

After watching that video the idea that people want to argue Garbers vs. Bowers makes me laugh.

---

I'm laughing at anybody that uses a video of only a person's good plays to assert who is a better player. Get over yourself. Maybe someone will compile a video of all the sacks Bowers took because he didn't get rid of the ball or all the interceptions he threw vs. USC.

I personally don't think either guy has a big edge over the other, though Garbers' higher level of mobility makes him a little more desirable if the passing is close. Not likely to matter, as Bowers is likely gone.

---

The fact alone that bowers is completing TDs to actually WRs is telling the pass game this year suffered tremendously from the lack of weapons on the field.

---

While it's a highlight reel, Ross was throwing mostly to the same guys we had this year -- Wharton, Noa, Laird, Veasy etc. I don't see many passes to Robertson (he got injured) or Stovall in the video, unless I'm missing something. We kept lamenting that because we lost those guys it made it tough on Garbers and McIlwain. Yes Ross had Veasy (who was very good in the red zone), but he wasn't a burner either and we added Moe Ways and then got Duncan back. I think what is significant is losing Noa since UW. He is a guy we needed to move the chains.

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I'd love it if Noa comes back. Him and Duncan together would be pretty good... maybe one of the JuCo guys will be ready to contribute (well, they need to come here, first). Castles might be ready. Hawkins will get better

BearOnABike said:

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Noa, Wharton, and Laird all look way faster in the 2017 highlights than what we saw this year. It's probably the fact it's a highlight reel, but maybe they all pulled their hamstrings during a WR drill this summer.

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Right? Last year Laird was "surprisingly" fast. Look at his highlights. This year he looked slow. 5.9 ypc last year, 4.2 ypc this year. I think he was slowed by whatever injury kept him out of Fall camp. He tried to be more of a power back this year. It reminded me of the change we saw in Russell White after his injury.

Similarly, there were games this year where Wharton could barely walk between plays. It might be part of why he was taken off punt returns.

Noa wasn't even on the field for much of the season.

annarborbear said:

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Only way to draw a final conclusion on this will be to see how Garbers does next year for Cal and how Bowers does for somebody else. My own eye test had Bowers throwing much better passes than Garbers and simply having more moxie.

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More moxie perhaps, and also perhaps a stronger arm, but Chase seems to have calm, better legs, and can take a hit better without being rattled. I do think if Ross had been QB all year we probably win 1 or 2 more games. So that's something.

blungld said:

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annarborbear said:

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Only way to draw a final conclusion on this will be to see how Garbers does next year for Cal and how Bowers does for somebody else. My own eye test had Bowers throwing much better passes than Garbers and simply having more moxie.

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More moxie perhaps, and also perhaps a stronger arm, but Chase seems to have calm, better legs, and can take a hit better without being rattled. I do think if Ross had been QB all year we probably win 1 or 2 more games. So that's something.

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People complained about Ross' arm strength last year too. Everyone always thinks a college QB should have pinpoint aim and a rocket arm or they aren't good enough.

Neither is what we need.

Yogi Bear said:

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blungld said:

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annarborbear said:

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Only way to draw a final conclusion on this will be to see how Garbers does next year for Cal and how Bowers does for somebody else. My own eye test had Bowers throwing much better passes than Garbers and simply having more moxie.

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More moxie perhaps, and also perhaps a stronger arm, but Chase seems to have calm, better legs, and can take a hit better without being rattled. I do think if Ross had been QB all year we probably win 1 or 2 more games. So that's something.

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People complained about Ross' arm strength last year too. Everyone always thinks a college QB should have pinpoint aim and a rocket arm or they aren't good enough.

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Tell that to the 2 Heisman candidates.....

Davis Webb would not have done any better on this team as a redshirt freshmen. As a Cal senior, sure, but posters should give any and all our players the necessary time to mature.

Dang, disappointed that Bowers probably won't play again. I went to a school in his high school conference and he always lit it up against us. I was excited to see him play when I came here this fall but I guess not.

annarborbear said:

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Last year, we were ranked 54th in the country in third down conversations at 40.9%. This year, we dropped to 97th place, at 35.5%.

People ranked below us are looking for new offensive coordinators.

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Food for thought indeed.

FremontBear said:

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annarborbear said:

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Last year, we were ranked 54th in the country in third down conversations at 40.9%. This year, we dropped to 97th place, at 35.5%.

People ranked below us are looking for new offensive coordinators.

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Food for thought indeed.

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I'd be interested in a stat of our average 3rd down distance, last year versus this. Or how many times we converted running last year versus this. My sense is that last year Laird's 5.9 ypc helped us have more makeable 3rd downs, and when we did need a tough catch Wharton, and especially Noa, delivered.

Ironically, let's get this qb for 2019!

https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25519933/smu-mustangs-qb-ben-hicks-transfer%3fplatform=amp

oski003 said:

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Ironically, let's get this qb for 2019!

https://www.google.com/amp/www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/25519933/smu-mustangs-qb-ben-hicks-transfer%3fplatform=amp

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Look at his stats. No thank you. It is possible he could be a very marginal upgrade, but no sure thing. I'm all for taking a grad transfer if they make the team better, but if this is the option I'd rather give the snaps to Garbers and hope he develops.