I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

As much as his tempo was good for his offense it was bad for his defense.

There was no defense. I feel like Wilcox could moderate that. Could it be any worse than what we have now. Is it to not possible to have both. Franklin got so much out of his personal. No doubt if he or dykes were still here we would be in the top 20 in scoring.

Franklin moved back to Tennessee to be closer to family. He's not coming back to CA for any reason.

jhbchristopher said:

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There was no defense. I feel like Wilcox could moderate that. Could it be any worse than what we have now. Is it to not possible to have both. Franklin got so much out of his personal. No doubt if he or dykes were still here we would be in the top 20 in scoring.

---

I suppose Leach shows us you can have both.

See my post about Tosh as OC was supposed to be fun.

This seems serious, and asinine.

Yup, and Leach is an offensive coach. Cal doesn't yet have the players to compete, we need a good teacher with a system. I've defended Baldwin, still think he's a good coach but his multiple offense isn't working with the talent we have. Watching QBs run for their life and throw picks shows that's his offense is too complicated. Need a system offensive coordinator that's a good teacher.

jhbchristopher said:

---

I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

I have a sneaking suspicion that Franklin isn't the only good offensive coordinator out there who would be willing to come here

Yogi Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

I have a sneaking suspicion that Franklin isn't the only good offensive coordinator out there who would be willing to come here

---

You're right but cal needs someone that can come in with a simple system that's coachable/teachable. Mike McCarthy is available but he would have no success with the personal. Baldwin I'm sure would be great at a school with top talent. Cal needs a good teacher. You all remember how tedfords play book got so big.

jhbchristopher said:

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Yup, and Leach is an offensive coach. Cal doesn't yet have the players to compete, we need a good teacher with a system. I've defended Baldwin, still think he's a good coach but his multiple offense isn't working with the talent we have. Watching QBs run for their life and throw picks shows that's his offense is too complicated. Need a system offensive coordinator that's a good teacher.

---

I think the picks came as a result of very bad decisions by the QBs. They simply had no business throwing those passes, under any circumstances.

Bear19 said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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Yup, and Leach is an offensive coach. Cal doesn't yet have the players to compete, we need a good teacher with a system. I've defended Baldwin, still think he's a good coach but his multiple offense isn't working with the talent we have. Watching QBs run for their life and throw picks shows that's his offense is too complicated. Need a system offensive coordinator that's a good teacher.

---

I think the picks came as a result of very bad decisions by the QBs. They simply had no business throwing those passes, under any circumstances.

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Yup and it's not they're fault they weren't prepared. All 4 of them, at some point we have to stop blaming the players.

jhbchristopher said:

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Yogi Bear said:

---

jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

I have a sneaking suspicion that Franklin isn't the only good offensive coordinator out there who would be willing to come here

---

You're right but cal needs someone that can come in with a simple system that's coachable/teachable. Mike McCarthy is available but he would have no success with the personal. Baldwin I'm sure would be great at a school with top talent. Cal needs a good teacher. You all remember how tedfords play book got so big.

---

I know. I'm not looking for the next Bill Walsh. I'm looking for the next Mike Yurcich.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/21862192/oklahoma-state-cowboys-mike-gundy-offensive-coordinator-internet

jhbchristopher said:

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Yogi Bear said:

---

jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

I have a sneaking suspicion that Franklin isn't the only good offensive coordinator out there who would be willing to come here

---

You're right but cal needs someone that can come in with a simple system that's coachable/teachable. Mike McCarthy is available but he would have no success with the personal. Baldwin I'm sure would be great at a school with top talent. Cal needs a good teacher. You all remember how tedfords play book got so big.

---

Tony is patient and is a very good teacher.

My question is why do all the QB's show no maturity or common sense as to decisions on pass plays? Did none of these 'elite this-camp that' quartet ever hear of a Tight End on 3rd and short instead of the 20 yard hug the sideline futility play? How these players get into Cal for having such limited intelligence as demonstrated with no understanding for basic football? Non-improvement over the course of the season is unbelievable as well? Bowers played better last year than the fumble/interception machine we are now.

I continue to believe Baldwin is good. I respect that others see it the other way.

After last night I believe it's Tui. How can our QB play be THIS bad for two straight seasons? Tui's coaching profile is that of one who doesn't have it.

Either way, changes must be made. Two years in...no more excuses, that's more than enough sample size to see that what we have on staff isn't working. Wilcox has a responsibility to the program to make it better.

tequila4kapp said:

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I continue to believe Baldwin is good. I respect that others see it the other way.

After last night I believe it's Tui. How can our QB play be THIS bad for two straight seasons? Tui's coaching profile is that of one who doesn't have it.

Either way, changes must be made. Two years in...no more excuses, that's more than enough sample size to see that what we have on staff isn't working. Wilcox has a responsibility to the program to make it better.

---

Tui didn't decide to play BM 100% for the Arizona, Oregon and UCLA games.

Tui didn't decide to put in BM in the red zone v Wazzu when we had the go ahead score in the bag. BB had the running specialist pass.

Tui didn't have our struggling QBs pass in the red zone in a tight defensive bowl game with all of the college football world watching.

I believe like Wavy said BB hung BM and CF out to dry.

Tui didn't mismanage the Bowers situation. Tui isn't the reason why such an exodus on offense. OK not sure if these are on BB or JW but it was just a bizzsre year on that side of the ball.

I'm not sure how BB can be retained or anyone else who is not providing plus coaching or recruiting. Seems like only Greatwood is safe. I'm not that sure about him either, to be honest. Didn't we have high expectations for the line and it underperformed all year?

Tui never stays past year 2 at any program (most stints only last 1 year). There is a reason.

Probably a decent TE coach like at USC & UCLA - has no business coaching QBs.

KoreAmBear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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I continue to believe Baldwin is good. I respect that others see it the other way.

After last night I believe it's Tui. How can our QB play be THIS bad for two straight seasons? Tui's coaching profile is that of one who doesn't have it.

Either way, changes must be made. Two years in...no more excuses, that's more than enough sample size to see that what we have on staff isn't working. Wilcox has a responsibility to the program to make it better.

---

Tui didn't decide to play BM 100% for the Arizona, Oregon and UCLA games.

Tui didn't decide to put in BM in the red zone v Wazzu when we had the go ahead score in the bag. BB had the running specialist pass.

Tui didn't have our struggling QBs pass in the red zone in a tight defensive bowl game with all of the college football world watching.

I believe like Wavy said BB hung BM and CF out to dry.

Tui didn't mismanage the Bowers situation. Tui isn't the reason why such an exodus on offense. OK not sure if these are on BB or JW but it was just a bizzsre year on that side of the ball.

I'm not sure how BB can be retained or anyone else who is not providing plus coaching or recruiting. Seems like only Greatwood is safe. I'm not that sure about him either, to be honest. Didn't we have high expectations for the line and it underperformed all year?

---

As I said, I respect that others see it the other way re Baldwin. To me it's bottom line time. Two years of **** offense...no more excuses. It's time to do something. Otherwise we know Wilcox (or the Admin) isn't serious about winning.

With a huge emphasis on the O during the SD era, there is the mistaken notion that we had some juggernaut of an offense. We didn't.

Over those four years we averaged just a tad over 6 yards per play. Or just inside the top 1/3 in FBS. Even excluding that first season, the average is just 6.33. SD's last season was below 6 yards/play at 5.95, which approaches mediocre. Looking at conference games only, SD's offense was 6th best in the Pac-12 in yards/play.

When it comes to points scored, SD's offenses were about 4 to 5th best. When looking at only conference games, we were about 6th best in scoring in the Pac-12 over those four years.

Whether looking at efficiency of the offense as in yards per play or bottom line scoring capability, SD's offenses were a bit better than average generally. Sometimes pretty good, other times rather average.

We never got the 50+ PPG scoring of that 2012 La Tech team. Heck, we never averaged 40 a game. The only thing that did translate over with the SD hire was the worst dang D in the nation.

Further on TF, those backpedaling offensive linemen, that mindset is a poor fit with the mentality of JW, IMO.

Do you realize that, right now, it sounds silly, you criticizing the offense under the previous regime?

tequila4kapp said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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tequila4kapp said:

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I continue to believe Baldwin is good. I respect that others see it the other way.

After last night I believe it's Tui. How can our QB play be THIS bad for two straight seasons? Tui's coaching profile is that of one who doesn't have it.

Either way, changes must be made. Two years in...no more excuses, that's more than enough sample size to see that what we have on staff isn't working. Wilcox has a responsibility to the program to make it better.

---

Tui didn't decide to play BM 100% for the Arizona, Oregon and UCLA games.

Tui didn't decide to put in BM in the red zone v Wazzu when we had the go ahead score in the bag. BB had the running specialist pass.

Tui didn't have our struggling QBs pass in the red zone in a tight defensive bowl game with all of the college football world watching.

I believe like Wavy said BB hung BM and CF out to dry.

Tui didn't mismanage the Bowers situation. Tui isn't the reason why such an exodus on offense. OK not sure if these are on BB or JW but it was just a bizzsre year on that side of the ball.

I'm not sure how BB can be retained or anyone else who is not providing plus coaching or recruiting. Seems like only Greatwood is safe. I'm not that sure about him either, to be honest. Didn't we have high expectations for the line and it underperformed all year?

---

As I said, I respect that others see it the other way re Baldwin. To me it's bottom line time. Two years of **** offense...no more excuses. It's time to do something. Otherwise we know Wilcox (or the Admin) isn't serious about winning.

---

As some one that 24 hours ago would have agreed with you, let me explain why I did and why I no longer do.

The Eastern Washington offense was good. Not just in results, but it was a good offense. We haven't seen it here. My theory was that at EW, he had superior personnel to most opponents and that gave him confidence to let it rip from a play calling perspective. He has been ridiculously conservative for us and I've chalked that up to not having confidence in the personnel. My hope was the personnel would improve and we'd see some of the imagination that EW had. I have disagreed with his reaction to the personnel issues. I believe the way you develop your personnel is to show some confidence and let them try and accept the mistakes because that is how you get better. But I thought with better personnel, Baldwin would improve.

However, the personnel is not going to dramatically improve. He may be great at USC (he'll never find out). But it isn't realistic to think Cal is going to have great offensive personnel without showing success with below average to average personnel.

But the bottom line is the play calling last night, even giving him all these excuses was bizarrely bad. It wasn't just that it didn't work. Fans usually think that play calls that don't work must have been bad. I firmly believe if we all were told the plays we were going to run, there were a lot of calls that 95% of us would have said "Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!" I can't explain how the play calling could be that stupid. If he can be that stupid, he will be a liability.

But most of all, I don't think we have the time to "wait and see" on this experiment. I firmly believe that coaches have a window of opportunity for success. Once recruits don't believe you can turn things around, it's over. Wilcox cannot have another offense like this next year. We can't risk it. Also, our offensive players need to hear two messages:

1. You play like this, you get your coach fired
2. We aren't going to leave you out in the cold like this. You need hope that we can turn things around. At this point, the current staff can't give you that hope so we are making changes.

Dykes should have been fired after year one because any coach that could put up that result needs to go. We wasted 3 years. Baldwin followed up a very poor effort with literally one of the worst offenses in school history. (between Dykes and Baldwin, Holmoe has been supplanted in several "it can't get any worse than this" columns). It would not surprise me if Baldwin goes on to success in his career under different circumstances. It won't be here. That is okay. Possibly Cal's worst football coach went on to be head coach in 4 Super Bowls.

Cal cannot take a chance on this at this point. If we suck this bad on offense next year, we will not only be the team that sucks at offense, we will be the team that did nothing to fix it. That is much, much worse.

Big C said:

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Do you realize that, right now, it sounds silly, you criticizing the offense under the previous regime?

---

I think his point is that we need to strive for better than Franklin. Sort of like many fans spending the whole year until last night satisfied that a Garbers offense that did nothing was satisfactory because it was better than a McIlwain offense that wounded itself constantly.

Believe me, between Baldwin and Frankin, I'll take Franklin. But my choice is none of the above.

jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

71Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

Wow, an excellent OC? EWU is proof? 71B not sure how you can defend those statements.

Well he also guaranteed Garbers as the starter for next season. So, yeah.

I've said this before, but defense is the clear identity of this team.

So you have to find an offense that pairs with our defense. That is not a fast paced offense.

We need a run based offense that relies on play action. Something similar to what usc and furd used to run.

Those types of offenses are efficient with the correct personnel and relatively low risk because you aren't asking your qb to make several complicated reads.

KoreAmBear said:

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71Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

Wow, an excellent OC? EWU is proof? 71B you are usually credible, but this does not help your cause.

---

The difference between FCS and P5 FBS is huge. At EWU, he was playing against DC's making $50k/yr. At the P5 level, DC's make $500k+, are highly competitive and want to keep their $500k+ jobs by stopping the offense.

So an FCS team scores a few on an FBS every now and then. That does not mean that much. P5 coordinators and players often look ahead of the FCS game and treat it as a glorified scrimmage, while the FCS team will look at tape and ball out like it's the biggest game of the year.

Baldwin could still be learning what it takes to make the step up... Cal doesn't have the luxury of waiting around on the offense anymore. That single game last night did more to hurt the national perspective regarding Cal's offense than the rest of the season. Time to purge and reset.

Beau Baldwin could very well become successful somewhere else, but I can't see it working out much better next year here, and the risk is if that happens we get zero decent offensive recruits.

71Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

You are approaching Holmoe time on this. A resume doesn't trump performance. The offense has shown nothing positive. It can be bad and still have some positives. What makes you think things will improve enough next year especially given you are all in on Garbers.

Edit: I'm not trying to slap you with the Holmoe comment. Posting this after last night requires an intervention

KenBurnski said:

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Well he also guaranteed Garbers as the starter for next season. So, yeah.

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I never guaranteed that Garbers would be the starter. Only Wilcox can say do that. I did say that, in my opinion, Garbers will be the starter. I still think that is the case....

OaktownBear said:

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71Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

You are approaching Holmoe time on this. A resume doesn't trump performance. The offense has shown nothing positive. It can be bad and still have some positives. What makes you think things will improve enough next year especially given you are all in on Garbers.

Edit: I'm not trying to slap you with the Holmoe comment. Posting this after last night requires an intervention

---

I think the improvement will come through experience. Yesterday, Garbers was 10-12 before the first Int. After that play, he went into the dumper reverting back to bad habits. That int. was the result of staring down a receiver. This gave the DB an opportunity to slid over from another guy and make the play. TCU DB's were watching him every play - experienced QB's look off DBs and burn them when they peek. Garbers is not at that level yet and TCU took advantage. The big question is whether Garbers can reach that point. I think he can through extensive practice. Obviously, I could be wrong but I am putting my chips on him.

As for people who rip Baldwin, they are idiots in my opinion. For the most part, they must believe OC's are magicians not football coaches. Baldwin calls plays that he believes can be executed by the QB. He does not put a helmet on and take the field. For example, the last int. was a good call given the circumstances. Cal was in a 3rd and long, they could not make a first running because TCU had shut the running game down. Cal had to get a first down to give Thomas a good shot at the FG (he missed two kicks inside the 40 during the season). Therefore, a pass play was the right call.

The one absolute truism about sports that so many fans forget every game - there are two teams on the field. In this case, BOTH of them were very strong defensive clubs. If anyone thought TCU was going to roll over, they know nothing about Gary Patterson coached teams. He is one of the best in the business and TCU played a beautiful defensive game. It was quite apparent they studied Cal's game film closely.

KoreAmBear said:

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71Bear said:

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jhbchristopher said:

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I think we all know Baldwin is not the anwser at this point. Maybe it's Tuiasosopo that bears the blame. Either way time to get some new coaches in. I don't think any of us will be surprised if they're both gone monday. Franklin had a different coaching/teaching philosophy when it came to quarterbacks, he was able to get the most out of our players on offense. With the talent we have on offense at this point might be the best option. Franklins tempo probably wouldn't "mesh" but with a wilcox defense but I feel like it give Cal an opportunity to win.

---

"we all know Baldwin is not the answer".....

Actually, that is not true. I fully support Baldwin. He is an excellent OC. His record at EWU is proof that he knows the job.

The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

Wow, an excellent OC? EWU is proof? 71B not sure how you can defend those statements.

---

See my response to Oaktown......

71Bear said:

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The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

BB played a soph transfer B-Mac and a RS Senior QB with very little success. Both had ample time to learn his O.

Are you saying that BB need a 3+yr QB to run is playbook?

71Bear said:

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KenBurnski said:

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Well he also guaranteed Garbers as the starter for next season. So, yeah.

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I never guaranteed that Garbers would be the starter. Only Wilcox can say do that. I did say that, in my opinion, Garbers will be the starter. I still think that is the case....

---

Really, you still think Garbers will start next year?!? Because I think the second-half message the staff sent yesterday was, "Welcome to Cal, Devin Modster!" I'd be surprised if Garbers isn't considering leaving, right about now.

GoCalBears said:

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71Bear said:

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The problem lies with the excruciating inexperience at the QB position.

In the future, please do not speak for me. Thanks.

---

BB played a soph transfer B-Mac and a RS Senior QB with very little success. Both had ample time to learn his O.

Are you saying that BB need a 3+yr QB to run is playbook?

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BMac demonstrated why he was beaten out by another guy at SoCarolina. He is a baseball player masquerading as a footballer. And Bowers was awful. Cal would not have beaten either SC or UW with him at the helm.

Big C said:

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71Bear said:

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KenBurnski said:

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Well he also guaranteed Garbers as the starter for next season. So, yeah.

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I never guaranteed that Garbers would be the starter. Only Wilcox can say do that. I did say that, in my opinion, Garbers will be the starter. I still think that is the case....

---

Really, you still think Garbers will start next year?!? Because I think the second-half message the staff sent yesterday was, "Welcome to Cal, Devin Modster!" I'd be surprised if Garbers isn't considering leaving, right about now.

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Yes I do. As I have said, I could very well be wrong but I think he will grow quite a bit over the next eight months and be the guy.