01Bear said:
OaktownBear said:
calumnus said:
College and Professional Sports is a $multibillion industry. Add sports apparel and it is even bigger. Coaching, front office, marketing, college fundraising...these are high paying professions that are currently learned through apprenticeship as in medieval times. There is a need for more formalized training. A Haas grad program in sports management and marketing would meet an important need. Interns could support our athletic department or find placement with the Giants, A's, Warriors, Niners and the PAC-12 offices. The best talents could be retained by Cal. If preference is given to those on scholarship and/or with college sports experience we could attract great players from across the nation. And if they started offering an undergraduate multidisciplinary program (psychology, physiology, finance, management....) our recruiting would be unstoppable.
Yes, our lack of academic programs is holding back our football recruiting. 5 star players are dying to work in the front office for the Giants.
1% of grad transfers give a damn about the academic program they are transferring to. And I'm being generous. I'm sure that OU's academics turned the tide on this.
If you want to attract the best players then develop majors, undergrad and grad that allow them to get credit for working out and playing football all day. Most are thinking of how they get to the NFL as a player and want to spend 100% if their time doing that.
The navet on this thread is mind blowing
That's right! All these kids are good for is pkaying ball! They canyactually be interested in obtaining a world-class education. They can't possibly realize that the odds of turning pro are against them. They can't possibly plan ahead for a life after sports. Nope. They're all a bunch of meatheads who wouldn't be able to tie their own shoes if they weren't coached to do so.
Obviously, the foregoing was meant to be read sarcastically. Athletes aren't all idiots. Many/most see sports as a means to an end. They understand that even even if they mke it to "the Show" they're just an injury away from unemployment. There are plenty of smart cookies who prepare for a post-playing career.
Given that sports marketing is a billion dollar industry, it makes sense that a business school would include it in its program. It's also not beyond the pale to suggest that an interdisciplinary approach could be useful. That could actually open up an entire field of study, which would mean new grad programs and majors. Since Cal is an university, it stands to reason that Cal could provide that sort of education. Whether Cal wishes or chooses to do so are horses of a different color.
Here is the story of the thread. A four star quarterback in high school chooses to go to a university that is probably the best football program in the country, that is to put it mildly not know for academics, that was a pioneer back in the day in taking complete dumbasses that never went to class and essentially paying them to be ringers on the football team. Having had a great career there, but losing his job to an even higher prospect, he chooses to transfer to another top football school who also pioneered taking complete dumbasses (who, for example, lost a huge chunk of their recruiting class the first year there was a minimum SAT requirement, at the time a whopping 700), and the problem is that our 7-6 football team who hasn't had a winning season in conference in years is getting burned by the academic side not developing football centric graduate programs. And we have to do something because guys like Ways and Bunting - two guys that graduated from a top academic institution and who are about the same level football wise as the high school recruits - won't cut it.
Don't give me the "All these kids are good for is playing ball!" bit. No one up thread gives a damn about anything else these kids are good for. No one, including you, said anything about Ways and Bunting being crapped on.
Regarding your "Athletes aren't all idiots" arguments:
1. I never said they were.
2. Athletes in sports other than football and basketball very much use athletics as a means to an end to get an education. They absolutely plan ahead for a career after sports
3. Football and men's basketball are totally different animals. They are big money professions. All evidence points to the fact that
top flight prospects in those fields either do not place much importance in using it as a means to an end or planning for post athletics endeavors, or, if they do place much importance in it, it is far secondary to the importance of their primary goal of having a career in their chosen profession. That doesn't make them idiots who can't tie their shoes. That makes them smart.
4. Specific to grad transfers, all data nationally so far demonstrates that an extremely low percentage of football and basketball players who use a grad transfer actually get a degree in the program they transfer into. The vast majority of the time the grad transfer is not being used to get a graduate degree. It is being used to find a more advantageous situation for their athletic endeavors. Which, again, doesn't make them stupid. It is the reality of the priorities of the bulk of these individuals.
5. Cal has turned out some very heavy hitters in the general field of sports management without having a program called "Sports Management". I don't know what the Business school offers to do that, but the path is clearly there. I submit to you that the "problem" is not that an athlete couldn't go to the business school and get an education that they could parlay into sports management. The "problems" are that 1. The vast number of football and basketball players can't get into the graduate school of business; and 2. The program is extremely rigorous and it would be very difficult to do both that and a sport like football or basketball well at the same time. I submit that what is being called for is not a sports management program, but a "dumb jock" version of what can already be achieved.
6. A college degree from anywhere is a good thing. A Cal degree is a great thing. However, for most athletes the degree that they hopefully get from any university is going to set them up to have a reasonable career down the line. They don't need an elite degree at the cost of taking a lesser program in their chosen field. It is like choosing Julliard school of engineering over Cal school of engineering because you want to minor in art and their art program is better.
If the business school wants to put together a specific program for sports management, fine by me. If it is a program that is on par with the rest of the school, I think you will find that it is not filled with students who have prioritized Division 1 football and basketball because for most it will interfere too much with their priorities. It will be filled with students who are already going to be in the business school who may have a background in athletics or just love athletics. If the business school wants to have a dumbed down version for athletes who prioritize athletics, I disagree, but it is up to them. I don't think you can realistically make that work. It is either a program easy enough to attract major athletes who spend a ton of time training, in which case none of the nonathletic students are going to be interested, and I don't see how there are enough athletes in grad school to fill the program, or it is a rigorous program that will be sought after by students and be really hard to get into and a lot of work to stay in.
But, if you can make it work, you know who you are going to get? A lot of kids for the golf team. Or swimming. Or softball. I don't think that is what people here have in mind. Or, you may get a Ways or a Bunting. That's been already clarified that is not what they have in mind.
If you want Hurts to come to Cal, you need to offer him a top flight program in his profession. Football. Our graduate programs did not keep him from coming here. Our graduate programs are not stopping us from getting top flight transfers. If we had a top 5 football program, I guarantee you that our Graduate School of Public Health would suddenly find itself VERY popular among top football players.
