College Admissions Fraud

71Bear
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TheFiatLux said:

wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
Let's wait on that. Full review going on. Fingers crossed.

At this point it's hard to figure out what you're hoping for with those crossed fingers...
The same thing we are all hoping for - no similar problems in the Admissions process.

(although as noted earlier, it is kinda sad that SC has now been elevated to "elite" status while Cal has been remanded to the non-elites - you just can't win.......)

Oh well, I'll stick with the mantra "Do the Right Thing" regardless of the consequences.

wifeisafurd
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71Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
Let's wait on that. Full review going on. Fingers crossed.

At this point it's hard to figure out what you're hoping for with those crossed fingers...
The same thing we are all hoping for - no similar problems in the Admissions process.

(although as noted earlier, it is kinda sad that SC has now been elevated to "elite" status while Cal has been remanded to the non-elites - you just can't win.......)

Oh well, I'll stick with the mantra "Do the Right Thing" regardless of the consequences.


Thank you '71.

Unless you are a school President that is afraid to know, you have ordered an audit of all preferred walk admissions. We happen to have an AD and Chancellor that want to make sure Cal is clean. I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend.
cal83dls79
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71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
hubris schmubris, I'm ok with beating SC up big time now over this embarrassment while given the chance. I mean, if we are on the 10 yard line, up 27, 4th quarter, no TOL I'm gonna run the ball down their throat. So what if their coach asks our coach "what's your deal"? Some guys prefer taking a knee, but they haven't seen as many SC humiliations as I have. Now if it's Utah, I take a knee.

This embarrassment pretty much gives me a lifetime (what's left of it)runway of a beat down on USC academics. I know lots of SC guys. All pretty cool and they have no animosity for Cal. But still, this is a good day.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
71Bear
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cal83dls79 said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
hubris schmubris, I'm ok with beating SC up big time now over this embarrassment while given the chance. I mean, if we are on the 10 yard line, up 27, 4th quarter, no TOL I'm gonna run the ball down their throat. So what if their coach asks our coach "what's your deal"? Some guys prefer taking a knee, but they haven't seen as many SC humiliations as I have. Now if it's Utah, I take a knee.

This embarrassment pretty much gives me a lifetime (what's left of it)runway of a beat down on USC academics. I know lots of SC guys. All pretty cool and they have no animosity for Cal. But still, this is a good day.
It is never a good day when college athletics are dragged through the mud. This scandal reflects poorly on every school with an athletic program. The worst possible outcome would be the Federal government getting involved in a "fix". That would result in a bigger mess than we have now.
71Bear
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wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

TheFiatLux said:

wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
Let's wait on that. Full review going on. Fingers crossed.

At this point it's hard to figure out what you're hoping for with those crossed fingers...
The same thing we are all hoping for - no similar problems in the Admissions process.

(although as noted earlier, it is kinda sad that SC has now been elevated to "elite" status while Cal has been remanded to the non-elites - you just can't win.......)

Oh well, I'll stick with the mantra "Do the Right Thing" regardless of the consequences.


Thank you '71.

Unless you are a school President that is afraid to know, you have ordered an audit of all preferred walk admissions. We happen to have an AD and Chancellor that want to make sure Cal is clean. I'm not sure why this is so hard to comprehend.
Given the current Chancellor is someone I can trust to make the right decisions, I am pleased to hear that a thorough review is underway.
Sebastabear
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RJABear said:

Sebastabear said:


It is also in the realm of possibility that Carol Christ is a satanist who drinks baby blood and listens to Run DMC mix tapes in her spare time. But until someone presents a shred of evidence that's the case I'm going to focus on making fun of USC for their known scandal as opposed to our hypothetical one.
Run DMC ? Is that worse than the baby blood ?
Have you listened to the Back From Hell album?
LegoBear
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The Sidhoo kid being on the rowing roster is not a good sign for our coaches and University involvement.
cal83dls79
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71Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
hubris schmubris, I'm ok with beating SC up big time now over this embarrassment while given the chance. I mean, if we are on the 10 yard line, up 27, 4th quarter, no TOL I'm gonna run the ball down their throat. So what if their coach asks our coach "what's your deal"? Some guys prefer taking a knee, but they haven't seen as many SC humiliations as I have. Now if it's Utah, I take a knee.

This embarrassment pretty much gives me a lifetime (what's left of it)runway of a beat down on USC academics. I know lots of SC guys. All pretty cool and they have no animosity for Cal. But still, this is a good day.
It is never a good day when college athletics are dragged through the mud. This scandal reflects poorly on every school with an athletic program. The worst possible outcome would be the Federal government getting involved in a "fix". That would result in a bigger mess than we have now.
can't disagree with you there 71. I'm sure cal has it's own bed bugs. My thought here is that Cal is such a beaurocracy that what might shield us from scandals such as this, impedes us other areas where we need more "flexibility". The admissions machine at Cal is a black box to many.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
wifeisafurd
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socaltownie said:

wifeisafurd said:

socaltownie said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
My issue is a slight extension of this - should ANY college (especially an elite private one) HAVE a sailing team with "preferred walk ons" or "recruits." Again, a kid from South Central is not mastering the 16ft hobby cat class and figuring out how to properly set a jib for maximum speed around the leeward leg. _IF_ such programs were self sufficient I probably wouldn't care. But they are subsidized one the backs of kids playing revenue sports - which are overwhelmingly kids of color. Seriously, let that one sink in for a bit.

I do not consider myself that liberal. I am not down to radical income redistribution. But I don't like the idea that those already with advantages are gaining additional ones off of groups that, historically, have been at disadvantage. I guess growing up in Berkeley had SOME effect ;-)
Most non-revenue sports at Furd are self-endowed and not subsidized by football.or basketball (in case you have not been to football or basketball events, attendance can be sparse). Different model than Cal or SC. I assume sailing was one of the few sports that wasn't fully sustainable. .
1) I would guess that Furd is a significant outlier in that respect.
2) $$ is fungible (in part). Now this gets into difficult counterfactuals but one has to ask the question of whether the contribution to "endow" the equestrian team or Mens Waterpolo could not have been steered, through smart development practices to, I don't know, underwriting scholarships for deserving kids from San Bruno. THat is easy for me to say (with other people's money) but the stardard Furd line on this rights pretty hollow.

BTW - game day attendance is really just at the margins of the P&L. The big issue is really the football TV contract and, to a lessor extent, marketing tie ins around it.
I agree with everything except about attendance. If your luxury football boxes and season ticket seats are not filled, you are not making money when you pay your football coaches what Furd pays. They actually make money every other year when they have Cal, Notre Dame, Udub and Oregon at home.
Another Bear
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Yes, say all the crap you want about the infamous UC bureaucracy but in this case it likely helped limit the damage. There's a reason for all the checks and balances, to have more eyes watching and to help prevent stuff like this. Doesn't always work but more often than you'd think.
cal83dls79
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Thanks for clarifying my otherwise clumsy response.
Dead on.
Priest of the Patty Hearst Shrine
B.A. Bearacus
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Let's all get one thing straight: this scandal, the way it's playing out in the media, is a clear win for SC. SC is constantly being mentioned alongside Yale and Stanford and no school below it. So yeah, the longer this story is headline news, the more net benefit to SC.
hanky1
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Sebastabear said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

JHow about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
It is also in the realm of possibility that Carol Christ is a satanist who drinks baby blood and listens to Run DMC mix tapes in her spare time. But until someone presents a shred of evidence that's the case I'm going to focus on making fun of USC for their known scandal as opposed to our hypothetical one.
Ah-ha...

The old switcheroo. First, you identify both SC and Stanford as failing to have safeguards. Then you change to listing only SC. Thank you for deleting Stanford in your second post. Doing so confirmed my observation that rogue coaches do exist and can cause a lot of heartache for the PR staffs at schools.


Switcharoo smithcheroo. I'm alternating between SC and Stanford for readability. This is a message board not a dissertation. I'm making fun of everyone implicated because I dislike both schools and I can. Will continue doing so until I can't.


Helz yeah that's the spirit. I don't even know what you guys are arguing about anymore but I like this.
bearister
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Once these Hollywood mom's start serving time at Lompoc, there is zero possibility there is not a reality TV show in this.

sp4149
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wifeisafurd said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's early, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
Let's wait on that. Full review going on. Fingers crossed.
Point well taken, this is the tip of the iceberg stage; remember the Titanic did not hit the tip of the iceburg and still sank. Not sure how well an internal UC review will identify fraudulent test scores without outside assistance.

When I was at Cal we had team members who never played (or even suited up for games) and others who never practiced (or ate at the dining table reserved for practicing team members). I remember a kicker from my high school (went to school with him from the 2nd grade). Never considered him Cal academic material. He made one of the great field goals I have ever seen in high school, but otherwise not great on kickoffs or field goals. I was surprised to see him listed as a back-up kicker. He would show up at the start of fall practice for physical, etc... then practiced on his own. Admission as a preferred walk-on makes sense in hindsight. Our high school football running back and team captain went to SC on a scholarship (probably was also a prerferred walk-on). He never played for SC.

Is playing time a realistic standard for Preferred Walk-Ons? I don't think so, How many scholarship players have meaningful playing time, probably not as close to 100% as one might think... Maybe in the future we document PWO's practice time, time spent with the trainers (instead of practicing),, etc... to somehow indicate participation by athletes without a scholarhsip.

The real elephant in the room is whether private schools should be held to different standards than public schools. UCLA and Texas may have been doing nothing other than trying to compete with private schools in their areas that are direct competition. AKA playing by private school rules. Maybe additional charges of impersonating a private university? I have always expected that private schools were given far more admissions lattitude than public schools (or they wouldn't be private). The cynic in me believes that the majority of the criminal prosecution will be based on tax fraud involving tax write-offs of the money "contributed" to these universities.

Bobodeluxe
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B.A. Bearacus said:

Let's all get one thing straight: this scandal, the way it's playing out in the media, is a clear win for SC. SC is constantly being mentioned alongside Yale and Stanford and no school below it. So yeah, the longer this story is headline news, the more net benefit to SC.


Lemonade from lemons! Those toejams! One more reason to hate the sunglasses band.
OdontoBear66
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71Bear said:

cal83dls79 said:

71Bear said:

Sebastabear said:

TheFiatLux said:

Bobodeluxe said:

How about that son of a friend that Teddy brought on as a preferred walk on quarterback. We ain't all that different.
You understand, if someone ACTUALLY played on the team, and if no one got paid for that person to get into Cal, then, that is actually TOTALLY, as in completely 100% different.

It's ealry, I was working late last night, but come on man.
Seriously people. We sometimes work so hard to find equivalency it's ridiculous. No, we do not have employees engaging in the same fraud as USC, yes we have tons of safeguards to prevent this stuff from happening and yes we are free to make fun of Stanford and USC without fear of hypocrisy. Please spare us the "glass houses" BS.
All the safeguards in the world will not prevent an unethical coach from going rogue (i.e, the Stanford sailing coach). Your comment smacks of hubris. Cal dodged a bullet on this one. Next time there is some kind of scandal? Who knows...
hubris schmubris, I'm ok with beating SC up big time now over this embarrassment while given the chance. I mean, if we are on the 10 yard line, up 27, 4th quarter, no TOL I'm gonna run the ball down their throat. So what if their coach asks our coach "what's your deal"? Some guys prefer taking a knee, but they haven't seen as many SC humiliations as I have. Now if it's Utah, I take a knee.

This embarrassment pretty much gives me a lifetime (what's left of it)runway of a beat down on USC academics. I know lots of SC guys. All pretty cool and they have no animosity for Cal. But still, this is a good day.
It is never a good day when college athletics are dragged through the mud. This scandal reflects poorly on every school with an athletic program. The worst possible outcome would be the Federal government getting involved in a "fix". That would result in a bigger mess than we have now.
Good post 71....Every school is different, and I am sure every athletic department is going through the entire program of every sport with every coach and player right now.

Having two granddaughters at G'town and playing soccer, I know what the coaching staff professes, and makes the players go through to assure the academics are there. I also know it hinders him in early (frosh, soph years in high school) recruiting because a legit GPA has not even started yet, and why waste your time on players you cannot have in your program. I also know he has had to say NO to players who are now on the US National team because they did not have the academics, but sure had the athletics.

The best description is that either the players can get in on their own without the help at all of the athletic dept, or that they may be the type of student who would be deferred in Early Action into the general pool and more likely accepted in Regular Decision. There is no BS with poor students that I have ever heard hinted. We know Cal football is given a couple of spots each year for marginal students with promise. That does not go on at G'town in the soccer program.

Then, when in the program, the players must maintain a 3.0 or they do not play. Plain and simple, spelled out in advance. Coach flinches when he has too many players in the McDonough Business School as the grading there is more difficult than the general college.

Finally, I hope not to appear to excuse anything, but the tennis coach, Gordie Ernst, who was there for six or so years was guilty as hell, and I believe let go in 2017 for funny business in his budget. The man was in the Newport, RI Hall of Fame for tennis, graduated from Brown, had been at G'town for some time and quickly got a job at U. of Rhode Island. Probably on his reputation. Do not know if G'town recommended him or even had to with his background in his home state. His payola in bribes I believe was on two occasions separated by a number of years. Hard to find, and I do not know if it was uncovered as part of the general firing or later found out when the investigation unfolded.

We have had two players in our seniors recruiting class leave the team during the four years, but they were legit soccer players who either weren't getting the playing time expected and lost interest, or were struggling with academics and the time commitment was too great. But these were not in the freshman year.

Aside all this, the school's reputation suffers.
sp4149
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bearister said:

Once these Hollywood mom's start serving time at Lompoc, there is zero possibility there is not a reality TV show in this.


You realize that "Aunt Becky" has been a Hallmark Movies/Mysteries mainstay?

https://jezebel.com/lori-loughlin-is-the-hallmark-channels-best-loved-actor-1833264262

It seems Lori was currently filming Garage Sale Mysteries: Searched and Seized in Canada. It seems Loughlin left filming to return to Los Angeles to surrender to authorities. The claim in this article that Hallmark Channels was bigger than ESPN is a surprise. How does Hallmark play this whodunnit in their backyard?

Disclaimer if the Choice is Fox News or Hallmark Mysteries, I go to a Hallmark channel.
B.A. Bearacus
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chalcidbear
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Here's the Onion's take on the USC angle:

https://entertainment.theonion.com/usc-insists-lori-loughlin-s-daughter-was-admitted-solel-1833246244
Another Bear
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Aunt Becky is so freakin' wholesome, she almost makes my teeth hurt like candy. She or her husband don't seem so smart, or maybe they just didn't know how to play the U$C payola game.

Did I catch this right...that Curoso or another high level trustee or admin suggested they thought Aunt Becky was good for $1m bucks (donation?). Seems U$C is playing a shakedown game.

I know SC has improved in academics but U$C is a social magnet for certain kids and families...wealthy slackers, country club set, and you have to pay to get those kids in. But that's always been the case. If you were willing to pay full tuition, you were usually admitted back in the day. Me, I'm from the other side, worked at the country club, or yacht club. The one thing I heard as a kid was..."SC is for dummies."
okaydo
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ajm9191
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Quote:

The Sidhoo kid being on the rowing roster is not a good sign for our coaches and University involvement.

I don't know if this counts as something, but at least he was actually on the roster. All of the cases mentioned involved students where there was zero expectation that they would actually participate in the sports they were being recruited.
OneTopOneChickenApple
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bearister said:

Once these Hollywood mom's start serving time at Lompoc, there is zero possibility there is not a reality TV show in this.


That is one reality show I'll watch.
okaydo
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okaydo
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I was searching "usc university village" on Twitter and found this from a USC alum.

Is it true? (the 20% part, that is)

Also I'm assuming -- and correct me if I'm wrong -- that schools like USC and UC Berkeley are absolutely flooded with applicants with 4.0+ GPAs and great test scores. I mean, USC had to reject 56,000 and accept only 8,000 last year.

It seems like ridiculous GPAs are a dime a dozen nowadays, so universities have to find other interesting factors to admit students.


bearister
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Another Bear said:

...The one thing I heard as a kid was..."SC is for dummies."


This is the last time I will take the bait on this issue and post a USC "apologist" comment, so here goes:

My daughter was the Valedictorian of her high school class and had a 4.37 GPA;

She had 2200 on the SAT with writing component included (1460 without that component);

She applied to and was accepted by Cal, UCLA, Boston College, Georgetown and USC;

She was wait listed at Notre Dame (which was her school of preference). I have always hated ND and I was very unhappy that she wanted to go there. ND ended up dumping her;

She wanted to be a business major and was told by Cal that could not be determined until her junior year and even then there was no guarantees.

USC told her that not only would she immediately be accepted into the undergrad Marshall School of Business but that they would give her a $10,000 annual merit scholarship and the freshman Spring Break trip for the business school was to China. USC made all these promises February of her senior year of high school. She accepted. USC had basically paid her to go to USC over Cal.

This initially broke my heart because of my love of Cal and because of my preconceived ideas that everyone at USC is either a bleached blond bubble head or a surfer dude (like they were in the 1970's).

Well, I won't repeat what I said in a prior post that my experience as a parent of a USC student, and now graduate, caused me to change my mind about the place.

With regard to Notre Dame, my preconceived notions were validated. When we visited the campus with my daughter we witnessed virtually no student body diversity and it seemed a cold unfriendly place (and a bastion of Conservative Catholicism). It is my opinion that the reason my daughter got dumped by ND is that the school is so legacy heavy and full of chowder heads like the DeBartolo spawn that kids from California that are not star athletes can F off.

Yes, between that pervert gynecologist and this recent fraud in admissions issue, USC has some problems, most schools do, even Cal (sexual harassment) to one degree or another.
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Bobodeluxe
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joe amos yaks
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Well stated.
I agree what you said . . . and about the Boho . . . and ND and cafeteria Catholicism.
Another Bear
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I grew up in the middle of the $C stuff. One of my best friends from grade school ended up there. I dated USC girls, and the sister of a song girl. I get everyone associated isn't bad or evil and many have a good experience...just like everyone who is associated with Cal is NOT a tree hugging hippy socialist pinko.

That said, that statement came from my dad, a Cal grad. I think it was a conversation with me and my sister about college and so-and-so is going to USC. That's when my dad just dropped it, "USC is for dummies" and at that time, in the 80s, it was true. He stated without emotion but rather, you're not going there. The conventional wisdom at that time was, if you were willing to pay full tuition...you would be accepted. Apparently USC upped their academics yet some of the old social factors remain.

You have no idea what it's like growing up around that..and being from the "other side", not members of the country club or yacht club, the kid who works at those places, or the social importance of U$C in SoCal. The only thing I can say about that, in a "Revenge of the Nerds" vein...getting those U$C and yacht club girls made up for some of it but I still got the fcck out of there. Fun but not a way to live a life. Frankly too much of that makes you dumb.

Look I'm not going to hammer anyone or their parents about going to U$C because then I'd have to make 2 dozen hate calls to people I know...but as an institution, in the news for bad behavior, it's fair game because this isn't the first or last bit of weirdness. On that note, Cal is fair game when it makes a bone head move. I know it hurts but the humility is good as a balance. YMMV.
socaltownie
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I had the pleasure of working on a research project a few years ago with lead faculty from the School of education. Good people. I learned a lot about the university under former President Steve Sample. At least in respect to my interactions decent school that was trying to improve. UC Level? No. But the flip side of that is that for a LOT of kids the UC system is a challenging place to get much out of. Huge classes, faculty who disdain undergrad education, lots of Grad students teaching classes.

_IF_ money is no object, than you probably can do OK at USC. That said, I think $ for $ I would recommend the Claremonts. Indeed, I am warming to trying hard to work on SCT Jr. to get Harvey Mudd onto his radar screen since I am highly impressed with what they are doing around STEM education.
bearister
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Another Bear said:

..You have no idea what it's like growing up around that..and being from the "other side", not members of the country club or yacht club.....






Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
joe amos yaks
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Is that the Newport Yacht Club?
B.A. Bearacus
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OneTopOneChickenApple
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/entertainment/olivia-jade-cheating-scandal/index.html

The fallout continues.
 
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