College Admissions Fraud

109,281 Views | 632 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by OneKeg
bearister
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"It is harder than ever to get into a top-tier college," the N.Y. Times reports:

"The rate at Harvard fell to 4.5 percent this year, down slightly from 4.6 percent last year. It also increased its share of Asian-American admits to 25.4 percent from 22.7 percent, at a time when it is waiting for a decision in a lawsuit accusing it of discriminating against Asian-American applicants."
"Yale's admission rate sank to 5.91 percent from 6.31 percent last year, or 2,178 students out of a record-high pool of 36,843."
"The rate was 11 percent at the University of Southern California, the lowest ever, out of 66,000 freshman applications."
"Last year, Stanford ... announced that it would no longer release admissions data to the public, only to the federal government."

"Last year, its acceptance rate was 4.3 percent for the Class of 2022, below those of Harvard and Yale." Axios
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“I love Cal deeply. What are the directions to The Portal from Sproul Plaza?”
rkt88edmo
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A bunch of grandstanding.

More applicants = lower admit %s

Everyone thinks they are elite or have a shot.

But in the end, even objective tests aren't bulletproof. Better schools (those with more money in wealthier communities) have instructors who know the AP system well, and they grade and proctor for the AP so they know what is coming and how to make sure their students have the best chance to pass. Admissions should be subjective to account for such things. All subjective tests can be subject to abuse. Some schools simply don't have the expertise or # of students to offer AP classes for some of the less common subjects.

It's a conundrum. Like many things in life we want objective, measurable rules and tests, but human behavior and performance is complex. All rulesets can be manipulated and will produce unintended consequences.

I took 9 AP tests in HS in the 90s. Scored 3-3s, 3-4s, 3-5s. At the time most people didn't take that many, most of the kids in my class who went to top schools took 7 AP exams. Other than maybe helping me in admissions the only thing I got at Cal was skipping Eng 1A.

Frankly, I think the HS system is broke, we should continue to invest in the JUCO level, and high performing HS students should just pick up more accredited JUCO units. That's my views as a parent getting ready to watch my first kid launch into HS and contemplating the admissions madness.

"What gets measured gets managed" - Peter Drucker

As my friend who spent a career in admissions for said - "you can transfer to any school as a junior as long as you can pay your way. Your stats don't count in rankings so they will take anyone."
okaydo
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KenBurnski
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Ha. So bomb. I'd bring an unsigned admission offer.
Sebastabear
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okaydo said:



I literally had to read this entire article to see if this was an April fool's joke. Spoiler - it wasn't.
BearlyCareAnymore
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Sebastabear said:

okaydo said:



I literally had to read this entire article to see if this was an April fool's joke. Spoiler - it wasn't.
"The whole country has been rocked by the news that hundreds of parents have been accused of bribing their kids' way into elite colleges... and also U.S.C." - TREVOR NOAH
HearstMining
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OaktownBear said:

Sebastabear said:

okaydo said:



I literally had to read this entire article to see if this was an April fool's joke. Spoiler - it wasn't.
"The whole country has been rocked by the news that hundreds of parents have been accused of bribing their kids' way into elite colleges... and also U.S.C." - TREVOR NOAH
There's an opening for a crack about ASU here . . . anybody?
Johnny bear
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Lynn Swan signing autographs for a fee is the featured article in the Los Angeles Times sports section today. This is on a day when the Dodgers, Angels, Clippers, and others had games the night before.

The L.A. Times has really focused on all the USC scandals of the past couple of years.
Fyght4Cal
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GBear4Life said:

How come guys like Dr Dre aren't radio active for highly visible companies/organizations? Do people remember his lyrics? You'd think prestigious universities attaching themselves to his name would lead to protests and riots.
LOL
GBear4Life
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Fyght4Cal said:

GBear4Life said:

How come guys like Dr Dre aren't radio active for highly visible companies/organizations? Do people remember his lyrics? You'd think prestigious universities attaching themselves to his name would lead to protests and riots.
LOL
I think it's sorta funny too. I mean, it's as if a double standard exists and it's as if the urgent social narrative around these things aren't sincere and merely a form of virtue signaling. Misogyny, sexism, racism, bigotry, and violence is unacceptable, so we're told...it warrants public figures resign and be cast out to the margins of society...unless you fall within a certain identity group? Someone posts racially insensitive joke on twitter and is admonished. Rapper profits off racism, bigotry and violence for 20 years and is given a Hollywood plaque and seen as a "role model" lmao.

Somebody, please, go ahead and try to defend that.
bearister
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The music industry has been held hostage by Hip Hop long enough, says I. Any guesses when the reign will end? I pine for the return of fine musicianship and good vocals:

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Fyght4Cal
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GBear4Life said:

Fyght4Cal said:

GBear4Life said:

How come guys like Dr Dre aren't radio active for highly visible companies/organizations? Do people remember his lyrics? You'd think prestigious universities attaching themselves to his name would lead to protests and riots.
LOL
I think it's sorta funny too. I mean, it's as if a double standard exists and it's as if the urgent social narrative around these things aren't sincere and merely a form of virtue signaling. Misogyny, sexism, racism, bigotry, and violence is unacceptable, so we're told...it warrants public figures resign and be cast out to the margins of society...unless you fall within a certain identity group? Someone posts racially insensitive joke on twitter and is admonished. Rapper profits off racism, bigotry and violence for 20 years and is given a Hollywood plaque and seen as a "role model" lmao.

Somebody, please, go ahead and try to defend that.
LOL. You're BIG mad. Just a reminder, while you're trying to make this about "certain identity groups", white males bought more music by Dre, Cube and NWA than any other group bought. But by all means, stay mad.
GBear4Life
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Quote:

LOL. You're BIG mad. Just a reminder, while you're trying to make this about "certain identity groups", white males bought more music by Dre, Cube and NWA than any other group bought. But by all means, stay mad.
Deflection and obsurantism 101, bravo.

You did not defend the double standards and the cognitive, moral and cultural dissonance.

You did not defend the double standard and hypocrisy surrounding our society's white-washing of "rap" cultural attitudes and values, and how that influence has adverse affects on whomever adopts all or parts of those cultural behaviors and attitudes.

Although I can't blame you for not wanting too. It requires you making a fool of yourself. To attempt it would be to expose themselves as hypocrites or morally bankrupt or ignorant or prejudice or bigoted...or all of the above.

Everybody knows caucasions buy a majority of rap albums. Rap is incredibly popular (I'm a listener). It's irrelevant to my points. It's had a negative impact on culture at large; whites are not immune.
Fyght4Cal
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That's not it, chief. I have no desire to go back and forth with you about your anger, despair, and disappointment over societal changes , displayed here and on the now-closed sexual harassment thread. I'm under no obligation to act as your sounding board.

I can't help you. Perhaps you can find an appropriate venue to vent and process your obvious frustration with the emergence of the voices of the marginalized in this new media environment. But, this isn't it.
82gradDLSdad
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bearister said:

The music industry has been held hostage by Hip Hop long enough, says I. Any guesses when the reign will end? I pine for the return of fine musicianship and good vocals:




Oh man, is Al Green great!!! Thanks for that.
Another Bear
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Every generation enjoys its music...but man, someone has to say it...

HEY YOU KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN!
okaydo
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This article is long and terrific.


Unit2Sucks
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BUT BUT ASU HAS AN HONORS COLLEGE! Not every school can boast that.
okaydo
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Haven't read this yet.


Another Bear
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okaydo said:

This article is long and terrific.



That was a good read, and brutal...to the bribing parents.
wifeisafurd
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okaydo said:

This article is long and terrific.



Wow. This article is insane.. 50% of a zip code has disabled kids taking the SAT. Amazing! What there author should havre added to this fine article (thanks for posting btw) is when you get into the elite private, grade inflation guaranties you also get a degree. And you wonder why employers are now looking for grad degrees to separate those applying for jobs.
Another Bear
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GBear4Life
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Am I the only one that finds this, at least from a moral standpoint and harming-of-others standpoint, pretty mild?

I get why it's a big story (the rich elite white collar crime is always sensational) and it's unequivocally shady, but I think ultimately inconsequential. In theory, they are keeping a few seats from other more deserving who will end up at other excellent schools as a result.
Yogi Is King
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GBear4Life said:

Am I the only one that finds this, at least from a moral standpoint and harming-of-others standpoint, pretty mild?
BearlyCareAnymore
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GBear4Life said:

Am I the only one that finds this, at least from a moral standpoint and harming-of-others standpoint, pretty mild?

I get why it's a big story (the rich elite white collar crime is always sensational) and it's unequivocally shady, but I think ultimately inconsequential. In theory, they are keeping a few seats from other more deserving who will end up at other excellent schools as a result.
Let me explain this to you. And I want to start by saying I'm not mad at you. I may get emotional in my writing because I'm outraged by this whole story and the whole process. This is very personal for me.

I have a kid who is a junior in high school and one coming up 3 years behind. So this is very real for me right now. I see my kid and her friends going through this. And it is not just the process of applying to college but it is the whole academic career.

The percentage of people applying to college has skyrocketed. It is not like when I was in school. Schools that were safety schools when I applied are now classified as elite. When I applied, I could afford to turn up a middle finger at "elite" private schools (and I did) because I put in the effort got the grades, and I couldn't be sure I'd get into every college I applied to, but I could be sure I'd get into most of them. That is not how it is now. Kids with perfect GPA's and perfect test scores and good extacurricular accomplishments can find themselves at UC Santa Cruz wondering why.

Kids who want an elite college experience now grow up working really hard for it. They make sacrifices. They stay up late working on their studies many nights. They develop themselves in ways outside of school. And you watch your kid doing that. And you watch her friends that do that. And you watch her friends who DON'T do that.

See, here is the thing. You go and look at the test scores for each school. Now what they do is report the range of test scores from the 25th percentile in the admitted class to the 75th in the admitted class. So you look at a school you like and say you see 25th is a 29 on the ACT and 75th is a 32. Well, I've got a perfect 36. And I have all A's. And I have great activities. This is a safety school for me, right? Wrong. Because who knows how they decide that kids that would be in the 99th percentile academically in the class don't qualify, but they do. It's not just a handful. It is a lot.

At this point, getting good grades and test scores buys you a lottery ticket. That is it. There is no sure way to get in anywhere. You can't work harder than your peers, be more talented than your peers, be smarter than your peers. That doesn't do it.

And then you look and you see the rate of acceptance for legacy admissions for some of these schools. And then you see a kid who you've known all your life who has slacked off all his life get into an Ivy. An Ivy he doesn't want to go to because he hates school. He's embarrassed to go. His friends give him the business, nicely but persistently. And he knows they are right. But Mom and Dad want him to go. (true story).

And then you read something like this article where literally half the kids in certain zip codes are having their parents pay doctors to diagnose them with a learning disability so they can have 2 days to take a test instead of 4 hours. HALF. And the parents think this is okay. And the doctors think this is okay. Personally, I think they all should go to jail and the doctors should permanently lose their license. Howe despicable do you need to be to pose as handicap. Would they fake paralysis to get an advantage? Would you think that is okay?

And then you see rich parents get their kids trained in some stupid little sport that is extremely expensive, like sailing, and get them into some school that has a Division III program. Or, Dad will put up seed money for a business, run the business in his kid's name, and pretend like the kid spent his high school years running a profitable business when he had nothing to do with it.

And now they go beyond all of that and just buy their way in? Sure thing.

Look, when you see kids grow up smarter and better and more talented, and you see them put in literally thousands of hours more work to develop themselves and you know they would kick that kid's ass in the classroom if given a shot because they've kicked that kid's ass all their lives, it does not seem like a minor moral transgression. It is not like there are tons of spots and a handful of them go to someone undeserving. There are not nearly enough slots for all the talented hard working kids. To jump the line for your lazy, dumbass kid who doesn't need or want the opportunity is disgraceful. If they stole $50 from a liquor store, they'd be in jail. They take an opportunity from someone worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, and it is a minor moral transgression.

I would submit to you that if you walked around with a high school kid who truly has the talent and work ethic to make the most of the opportunity, you wouldn't feel this way. Yeah, they'll be successful. They deserved better. They deserved that kid's slot. And I guarantee you they do not view the harm as mild.

They need to put the fear of god into these parents. No one should feel safe faking a kid's learning disability after this. I hope they get extensive jail sentences for this. That is the only thing they can't buy their way out of. I do not resent wealthy people. I resent takers. These people are takers.
GBear4Life
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I understand and empathize with what you're saying.

I'm just saying how many parents were involved in this? If a qualified student didn't get the last few spots at USC, they'll go to another "good" school. Obviously isn't their first choice, but the reach of this problem is very miniscule, no?

Help me understand why I'm wrong here. If you're kid wanted to desperately get into Cornell but couldn't because of these bribes, she in theory will get into another great school that, possibly even an Ivy. In short, we're not really destroying lives here. A handful of kids are getting pushed to their lesser preferences of still remarkably good schools.
BearlyCareAnymore
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GBear4Life said:

I understand and empathize with what you're saying.

I'm just saying how many parents were involved in this? If a qualified student didn't get the last few spots at USC, they'll go to another "good" school. Obviously isn't their first choice, but the reach of this problem is very miniscule, no?

Help me understand why I'm wrong here. If you're kid wanted to desperately get into Cornell but couldn't because of these bribes, she in theory will get into another great school that, possibly even an Ivy. In short, we're not really destroying lives here. A handful of kids are getting pushed to their lesser preferences of still remarkably good schools.


First of all this one investigation is minuscule. The problem is not. When half the kids from entire zip codes have been falsely diagnosed with learning disabilities, that is a lot of kids cheating.

Second of all, if one guy steals your wallet, that is pretty small potatoes, right? But you wouldn't feel that way.

Third - no you don't just get to move to the next awesome school. I know of a kid who deservedly got into an elite school. They got rejected by a bunch of schools. The second best school they got into was San Diego State. I think this is what you aren't getting. The opportunity isn't just an easy thing to come by.

A lot of kids now do a YouTube thing where they film themselves opening every notice they get from colleges. Watch some of those and see if you feel it doesn't matter.

The difference here can be hundreds of thousands of earning potential.

It's also easy to say to someone else - hey you didn't get into Yale. You got into UC San Diego. That is a really good school. And it is. But it's not for me to say what should've important to them.

I just don't understand looking at it your way. If I walked into Wells Fargo and stole $10K or even $1m, the shareholders wouldn't even feel it. Would you dismiss my immorality? It seems like you dismiss it because you can't identify the victim. Would you feel differently if I could demonstrate that a kid was specifically the last one rejected, that he got into a substantially lower tiered school, that his earning power was significantly impacted, would that change it for you?
Big C
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GBear4Life said:

I understand and empathize with what you're saying.

I'm just saying how many parents were involved in this? If a qualified student didn't get the last few spots at USC, they'll go to another "good" school. Obviously isn't their first choice, but the reach of this problem is very miniscule, no?

Help me understand why I'm wrong here. If you're kid wanted to desperately get into Cornell but couldn't because of these bribes, she in theory will get into another great school that, possibly even an Ivy. In short, we're not really destroying lives here. A handful of kids are getting pushed to their lesser preferences of still remarkably good schools.
This is also, on a macro level, about trust in the institutions that make up our society. When we can no longer trust these institutions because they are for sale to the highest bidder, what have we become? It's surprising that you cannot see this.
Calcupcakes
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GBear4Life said:


If you're kid wanted to desperately get into Cornell but couldn't because of these bribes, she in theory will get into another great school that, possibly even an Ivy.


By the way, I resemble this remark! Cornell is an Ivy.

But it's communist anyway, so carry on...
TandemBear
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Man, Oaktown, you nailed it yet again!

I couldn't agree any more with your post. As a father with a child who just went through the admissions process (and is still in the decision-making process - Go Bears!), I am totally in the same boat.

All I can say is a BIG thanks to you for expounding on the issue so thoroughly and succinctly.
rkt88edmo
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Big C said:

GBear4Life said:

In short, we're not really destroying lives here. A handful of kids are getting pushed to their lesser preferences of still remarkably good schools.
This is also, on a macro level, about trust in the institutions that make up our society. When we can no longer trust these institutions because they are for sale to the highest bidder, what have we become? It's surprising that you cannot see this.
Agree - the big bribes are less common, but this whole scam to game the test not via tutoring or test cramming, but via claiming disabilities that are false for the purposes of obtaining special treatment, when it is reportedly systemic like the above 50% claim in the article, that is a cause for concern.

It is completely unethical and abusing the system.

Our society prospers when we can trust each other. When trust breaks down unethical behavior just burdens all of society with more graft and corruption.

When it comes to country club sports though, I have much less of an issue. Tennis and golf used to be that way as well, but that playing field has been leveled in those sports. It may be very hard for sports that have high cost barriers to entry like sailing, but I have no problem with preferred admits based on sports (as long as the student actually competes in that sport) no matter how silly it is if that school wants to include that sport in its roster.

I've got two kids just about to enter high school, not looking forward to all this, lol.
Another Bear
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Trump Names Lori Loughlin Education Secretary
OdontoBear66
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Oaktown, I think you have done a great job with your analysis of the situation. We have been through the process with three or our four grandchildren, and they have all wound up well placed. The sacrifices were great in time and energy, but it became their lifestyle. As with Tandem Bear, #3 just finished the process this year and very successfully so. All academic credentials near perfect, with Associated SB, club and HS soccer, plus work with disabled children as a passion (relative so disposed was the reason for the passion, not college entrance). We cannot sigh and sit on laurels as we have one more to go who will be a senior next year.

What a horror story the last two years of HS are for the academically inclined. Prep for testing, keeping GPAs up, and basically doing all the right things. The problem is where you sit right now. When you are not there yet you are on the outside looking in. You really don't know what it takes to get in. There is horrible uncertainty. Is perfect enough? Well, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Let me give an example that I found unbelievable. #3 was accepted to Cal, UCD, UCSB, UCLA, Cal Poly, Boston College, UW, SMU, SDSU, and Georgetown. She was denied admittance at Vandy, and USC. Yes, USC. The only thing we can figure is that she got EA at G'town and posted it on her Facebook and USC got wind of same before the last week in March (lack of interest). But how could she get both Cal and UCLA and not USC? Crazy.

I have your anger from a moral standpoint. I am loving that USC is not allowing the daughters of Loughlin to drop out. They are going to investigate and if it turns out negative they will kick them out. I thought that classy as much as I do not like USC.

So anyway Oaktown, keep you chin up. Hope your kids continue to work hard, but it does pay off. I could be happy at any number of those universities. #2 granddaughter wound up at UW and is very, very happy after being rejected by Cal. But as you say, the grind and the uncertainty is in no way parallel to our day. Best of fortune.
bluehenbear
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https://www.everydayshouldbesaturday.com/2019/3/13/18263832/a-story-from-the-college-admissions-scandal
KenBurnski
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"I am loving that USC is not allowing the daughters of Loughlin not to drop out."

What does this mean? The daughter tried to quit school but USC locked her in her dorm spa suite?
 
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