I've been wondering: Did anybody on BI (either board) mention Musgrave's name (either as a prediction or a suggestion) prior to the decision? Too many names were thrown around for me to keep track of. Maybe somebody might've mentioned his, especially given the Oregon connection.

Probably not though, because nobody was thinking of him as a candidate for a college job.

Funny how it usually works out that way: We mention DOZENS of names, then it turns out to be somebody completely off the radar.

Nobody mentioned Musgrave. Nor Charmin Smith or Mark Fox on their respective boards. Maybe one or two posters predicted Wilcox. Nobody figured on Jones either, or Neu, though not much traffic on the Baseball Board.

With Rivera available, the talk was stymied.

Insiders go deep.

The answer: Yasser Arafat

The question: What is the sound made when Dolly Parton takes her brassier off?

Is there any realistic candidate that would have been a better OC hire?

On paper, this would have been a home run hire for the majority of college programs.

If Alabama (or Georgia, or LSU ...) has hired Musgrave, we'd all be saying 'why can't we get someone like that?'
I'm sure the consensus would be 'why would someone with that resume want to come to Cal?'

The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member". I think Cal fans think that if Musgrave took this job that there must be something wrong with him.

Personally, I think we hit it out of the park with the hire - far exceeding my expectations. Looking forward to spring ball.

MathTeacherMike said:

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If Alabama (or Georgia, or LSU ...) has hired Musgrave, we'd all be saying 'why can't we get someone like that?'
I'm sure the consensus would be 'why would someone with that resume want to come to Cal?'

The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member". I think Cal fans think that if Musgrave took this job that there must be something wrong with him.

Personally, I think we hit it out of the park with the hire - far exceeding my expectations. Looking forward to spring ball.

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+1
BI logic-and the can't win blues--

• "We need to get someone good, with experience and able to recruit"
• "Okay but they can't be too good or they won't come"
• They come anyway.
• "Well that was dumb, he's going to be gone next year"

Or

• "We need to get someone good, with NFL experience so we recruit well."
• We find him
• "How is he going to relate to college kids"

Hypothetical-

• "We need to get someone who can recruit college kids"
• We get him
• "We really should have gotten someone with both college and pro experience so we can attract top recruits that want to go to the NFL"

Hypothetical 2--

• "We need to hold out for the perfect candidate. Someone with Cal ties, NFL ties, is a great recruiter and want to return to Cal for a bargain and stay forever, even after bolstering their resume and taking Cal to the Rose bowl."
• We hold out and hence lose out and many of the types of guys we asked for above in the meantime.
• "We should have grabbed someone like Bill Musgrave when we had a chance"
• "You mean we had a chance to get Bill Musgrave and lost him to Furd because we were holding out for Ron Rivera?" "Yeah, we did". "Wow, that is so Cal".

Fact is we got someone that checks most of the boxes but is not beyond reproach because a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush. And no critic of this hire has mentioned anybody that was going to come to Cal with a better resume for the same price and be as good a fit.

Please don't say "Tosh Lupoi" or I'll be sick.

Any predictions on when we'll get a line coach and a running backs coach? I'm figuring MLK day.

TypiCal said:

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Nobody mentioned Musgrave. Nor Charmin Smith or Mark Fox on their respective boards. Maybe one or two posters predicted Wilcox. Nobody figured on Jones either, or Neu, though not much traffic on the Baseball Board.

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I believe Mike Neu was mentioned by several posters. I predicted Charmin Smith.

GBear4Life said:

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On paper, this would have been a home run hire for the majority of college programs.

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If that's true, which other programs interviewed him?

heartofthebear said:

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MathTeacherMike said:

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If Alabama (or Georgia, or LSU ...) has hired Musgrave, we'd all be saying 'why can't we get someone like that?'
I'm sure the consensus would be 'why would someone with that resume want to come to Cal?'

The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member". I think Cal fans think that if Musgrave took this job that there must be something wrong with him.

Personally, I think we hit it out of the park with the hire - far exceeding my expectations. Looking forward to spring ball.

---

+1
BI logic-and the can't win blues--

• "We need to get someone good, with experience and able to recruit"
• "Okay but they can't be too good or they won't come"
• They come anyway.
• "Well that was dumb, he's going to be gone next year"

Or

• "We need to get someone good, with NFL experience so we recruit well."
• We find him
• "How is he going to relate to college kids"

Hypothetical-

• "We need to get someone who can recruit college kids"
• We get him
• "We really should have gotten someone with both college and pro experience so we can attract top recruits that want to go to the NFL"

Hypothetical 2--

• "We need to hold out for the perfect candidate. Someone with Cal ties, NFL ties, is a great recruiter and want to return to Cal for a bargain and stay forever, even after bolstering their resume and taking Cal to the Rose bowl."
• We hold out and hence lose out and many of the types of guys we asked for above in the meantime.
• "We should have grabbed someone like Bill Musgrave when we had a chance"
• "You mean we had a chance to get Bill Musgrave and lost him to Furd because we were holding out for Ron Rivera?" "Yeah, we did". "Wow, that is so Cal".

Fact is we got someone that checks most of the boxes but is not beyond reproach because a bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush. And no critic of this hire has mentioned anybody that was going to come to Cal with a better resume for the same price and be as good a fit.

Please don't say "Tosh Lupoi" or I'll be sick.

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Who is a critic of this hire? Even some of the people I long ago concluded are trolls are calling it a "homerun."

Edit: Then I saw the response smh

calumnus said:

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Who is a critic of this hire? Even some of the people I long ago concluded are trolls are calling it a "homerun."

Edit: Then I saw the response smh

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I'm not a critic per se. In fact, I've warmed some to the hire since it was announced (the words "simplify the offense" gave me a huge relief). But if it's a home run to hire him, then other pro teams and college programs missed out because we're the only ones who seemed to pursue him (or maybe he pursued us and we didn't think he'd be interested).

Callisto said:

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calumnus said:

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Who is a critic of this hire? Even some of the people I long ago concluded are trolls are calling it a "homerun."

Edit: Then I saw the response smh

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I'm not a critic per se. In fact, I've warmed some to the hire since it was announced (the words "simplify the offense" gave me a huge relief). But if it's a home run to hire him, then other pro teams and college programs missed out because we're the only ones who seemed to pursue him (or maybe he pursued us and we didn't think he'd be interested).

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Well if anyone needs a reason to be skeptical this is the article to read: https://247sports.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Broncos-dismiss-former-OC-Bill-Musgrave-127961313/
Makes him sound like Baldwin.

Really hoping he puts together a smart offense here.

MathTeacherMike said:

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The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member".

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Groucho Marx, then quoted famously by Woody Allen.

The Oregon site speculated he was being considered there before Cal got him

I didn't see anyone mention his name. He wasn't in the Twitter chatter, the "analysts" probably figured he was a pro guy and not interested in a college coaching job.

Yes, he's a great hire. A step above the usual Cal assistant hires, but Wilcox has shown he can get really good assistants (at least good on paper, Baldwin was a great hire on paper, sometimes it just doesn't work out).

Cal fans can take some comfort in the fact that Wilcox is very good and landing good assistants, which means he'll always have a good staff available to him. Maybe Cal fans can stop the "woe is us" whining and adjust their perspective. Things are looking pretty good for the program.

Callisto said:

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calumnus said:

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Who is a critic of this hire? Even some of the people I long ago concluded are trolls are calling it a "homerun."

Edit: Then I saw the response smh

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I'm not a critic per se. In fact, I've warmed some to the hire since it was announced (the words "simplify the offense" gave me a huge relief). But if it's a home run to hire him, then other pro teams and college programs missed out because we're the only ones who seemed to pursue him (or maybe he pursued us and we didn't think he'd be interested).

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Well, this gets back to the basic BI logic -- he can't be a home run, otherwise, why would he come to Cal? If he were a home run, he would have gone to a pro team or a better college program. It is a given that Cal can't have good things, therefore, logically, this cannot be a good thing.

Not that this is directly related to the OP, but I'd say that hiring Mike Montgomery was a home run. I thought so at the time and I think that anyone would have to agree even in hindsight

Monty did a good job here, especially compared to the recent disaster that is Cal Basketball, but he underperformed: Not nearly enough NCAA Tournament victories over his six(?) years here. Very good coach, high ethics, no BS, but didn't recruit that well.

SBGold said:

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The Oregon site speculated he was being considered there before Cal got him

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If you do a Google search for Bill Musgrave offensive coordinator and even throw in Oregon and Ducks into the search, no hits tying him to that ope ning come up.

If you take Musgrave's name out and do a search for their offensive coordinator search, you get stuff like this.

https://www.oregonlive.com/sports/g66l-2019/12/c43f4583be787/6-potential-candidates-for-oregon-offensive-coordinator.html

https://fishduck.com/2019/12/four-candidates-to-replace-oc-marcus-arroyo/

https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/oregon-ducks/candidates-emerge-heres-how-jedd-fisch-will-hall-may-fit-oregons-offensive-coordinator

Now, that doesn't mean Musgrave wasn't considered, as he wasn't in any articles prior to Cal hiring him, but there certainly wasn't muchmedia buzz around him for any job, including Cal.

blungld said:

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MathTeacherMike said:

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The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member".

---

Groucho Marx, then quoted famously by Woody Allen.

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Big C said:

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Monty did a good job here, especially compared to the recent disaster that is Cal Basketball, but he underperformed: Not nearly enough NCAA Tournament victories over his six(?) years here. Very good coach, high ethics, no BS, but didn't recruit that well.

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2 NCAA victories in 6 years, never getting past the 1st weekend is not a "homerun" by most standards.
I agree Monty was a no brainer hire, a homerun hitter earlier in his career but delivered a solid single, at best a double. Still good and much better than a strikeout (Wyking) , or a long fly caught at the warning track that really looked like it would be a home run (Cuonzo).

Monty's recruiting, especially in the Bay Area, while never good, was especially hampered after "The Shove." Pac-12 refs had it out for him too. He is a great basketball mind and was smart enough to find great assistants to handle the areas he was not good at by choice or temperament. In retrospect I really wish he had set up Travis to formally take over as part of a "phased" retirement (with Monty moving to an advisory role). The AD would have easily agreed and we'd be in a much better situation today.

bearister said:

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blungld said:

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MathTeacherMike said:

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The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member".

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Groucho Marx, then quoted famously by Woody Allen.

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LOL Absolutely lewd and lascivious behavior

Big C said:

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Monty did a good job here, especially compared to the recent disaster that is Cal Basketball, but he underperformed: Not nearly enough NCAA Tournament victories over his six(?) years here. Very good coach, high ethics, no BS, but didn't recruit that well.

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You're not alone in this take, and weren't during his tenure. But I have always thought those who criticized his recruiting and tournament performance are Cal fans, but not basketball fans. His teams played beautiful basketball. As a basketball fan, I loved watching it. The teams were smart and well coached and I'd consistently wonder, "How did we just beat that team?"

I would never evaluate a coach on tournament performance in basketball. Single elimination tournaments don't tell you a ton. But I watched his teams for 30 games over many seasons and enjoyed them all. I can't stomach watching Cal basketball right now.

calumnus said:

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Big C said:

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Monty did a good job here, especially compared to the recent disaster that is Cal Basketball, but he underperformed: Not nearly enough NCAA Tournament victories over his six(?) years here. Very good coach, high ethics, no BS, but didn't recruit that well.

---

2 NCAA victories in 6 years, never getting past the 1st weekend is not a "homerun" by most standards.
I agree Monty was a no brainer hire, a homerun hitter earlier in his career but delivered a solid single, at best a double. Still good and much better than a strikeout (Wyking) , or a long fly caught at the warning track that really looked like it would be a home run (Cuonzo).

Monty's recruiting, especially in the Bay Area, while never good, was especially hampered after "The Shove." Pac-12 refs had it out for him too. He is a great basketball mind and was smart enough to find great assistants to handle the areas he was not good at by choice or temperament. In retrospect I really wish he had set up Travis to formally take over as part of a "phased" retirement (with Monty moving to an advisory role). The AD would have easily agreed and we'd be in a much better situation today.

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I agree with all of this except I don't believe the shove would have materially impacted recruiting.

Nevertheless, it's amazing that not long ago, Cal had the ability to hire a coach that was highly successful at another P12 program and coached in the NBA as well as a coach that was a hot commodity coming off a sweet 16 run at an SEC program. Those types of coaches seems so far out of reach now. (And no, I don't want Cuonzo now, but I'm talking about Cuonzo at the time we hired him).

I read a 247 article from the Oregon site on my FB page discussing Musgrave as a possibility

GMP said:

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Big C said:

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Monty did a good job here, especially compared to the recent disaster that is Cal Basketball, but he underperformed: Not nearly enough NCAA Tournament victories over his six(?) years here. Very good coach, high ethics, no BS, but didn't recruit that well.

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You're not alone in this take, and weren't during his tenure. But I have always thought those who criticized his recruiting and tournament performance are Cal fans, but not basketball fans. His teams played beautiful basketball. As a basketball fan, I loved watching it. The teams were smart and well coached and I'd consistently wonder, "How did we just beat that team?"

I would never evaluate a coach on tournament performance in basketball. Single elimination tournaments don't tell you a ton. But I watched his teams for 30 games over many seasons and enjoyed them all. I can't stomach watching Cal basketball right now.

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Apologies to the non-basketball fans on this thread...

While I wouldn't evaluate a college basketball coach on the results of ONE single-elimination tournament, when you coach at a program for six years(?) and only rack up one(?) tournament win, that takes some of the randomness out of it. No question that Montgomery was a very good coach and I love the fact that he came to Cal, but I'm sure even he -- perhaps especially he -- had higher hopes for what we would be able to do during his tenure here.

I knew....JW and I were having a shot of tequila and he said "what do you think of Musgrave?" I said who the hell would hire an ex Duck?" JW took his shot and said "hit me again!" I said, "JW slow down, we don't want to make a rushed decision!" He said, "hit me again!" And that's how I remember it......

As a retired dentist, absolutely loved that WC Fields video. Had not seen it before!

calhandball said:

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As a retired dentist, absolutely loved that WC Fields video. Had not seen it before!

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It seems like we have a disproportionately large number of dentists among our group! Nothing wrong or right about it, just an observation!

YamhillBear said:

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calhandball said:

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As a retired dentist, absolutely loved that WC Fields video. Had not seen it before!

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It seems like we have a disproportionately large number of dentists among our group! Nothing wrong or right about it, just an observation!

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They have even more free time during the work day than lawyers.

calhandball said:

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As a retired dentist, absolutely loved that WC Fields video. Had not seen it before!

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Did it bring back a lot of delightful memories from throughout your career?

bearister said:

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blungld said:

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MathTeacherMike said:

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The reaction by some on this board reminds me of the WC Fields quote "I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me as a member".

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Groucho Marx, then quoted famously by Woody Allen.

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Who is the hot... er... patient? Asking for a friend...