LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

LunchTime said:

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I tend to agree with your opinion regarding the hypocrisy of it all, but what else would you want in an apology?

okaydo said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

Serious questions: Do you have proof of Kaepernick attacking the troops?

---

I am sure there is some way to claim these are harmless, especially with how you frame the question, but his view of the military's clear.


To be clear on what is happening: I said his view on the military. You seem to be trying to argue a point I never made "attacking the troops."

My point is that it becomes extremely difficult to argue his protest is against racist police and police brutality only, and not also about America or the Military when his views become public record. I agree with the protest for his stated reasons, but I also vehemently disagree with people who claim he isnt anti military, anti-America, or that because X person says they dont find it disrespectful, thats the last word. I mean, I literally have a jackass riding the credentials of his daddy to tell me my opinion is wrong. His daddy's opinion is not wrong. We just disagree. He is wrong for trying to dick ride his dad's chest hardware to "win" a discussion about what we are permitted to disagree on.

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

Serious questions: Do you have proof of Kaepernick attacking the troops?

---

I am sure there is some way to claim these are harmless, especially with how you frame the question, but his view of the military's clear.


To be clear on what is happening: I said his view on the military. You seem to be trying to argue a point I never made "attacking the troops."

My point is that it becomes extremely difficult to argue his protest is against racist police and police brutality only, and not also about America or the Military when his views become public record. I agree with the protest for his stated reasons, but I also vehemently disagree with people who claim he isnt anti military, anti-America, or that because X person says they dont find it disrespectful, thats the last word. I mean, I literally have a jackass riding the credentials of his daddy to tell me my opinion is wrong. His daddy's opinion is not wrong. We just disagree. He is wrong for trying to dick ride his dad's chest hardware to "win" a discussion about what we are permitted to disagree on.

---

Drew Brees was criticized for conflating kneeling with disrespecting those who serve.

You responded that Kaepernick has attacked our country and our military.

Well, condemning American militarism, as he did in the above tweets, isn't the same as attacking those who serve or who have served.

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

OdontoBear66 said:

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sycasey said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

---

This is beyond me. If you are irreplaceable it's OK to make dumbass remarks, but if you're an ordinary Joe it isn't? This really doesn't sound like you sycasey.

---

That's not what I said. I don't think it's okay to make racist remarks. I'm saying this is just how it is: people who are in more irreplaceable positions are going to get more chances to screw up. That Jackson kept his job but some lawyer or investment banker did not is not evidence of a racial double standard, it's evidence that NFL players are a rarer commodity.

sycasey said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

---

This is beyond me. If you are irreplaceable it's OK to make dumbass remarks, but if you're an ordinary Joe it isn't? This really doesn't sound like you sycasey.

---

That's not what I said. I don't think it's okay to make racist remarks. I'm saying this is just how it is: people who are in more irreplaceable positions are going to get more chances to screw up. That Jackson kept his job but some lawyer or investment banker did not is not evidence of a racial double standard, it's evidence that NFL players are a rarer commodity.

---

I, at the same time, feel that the pressures are not equal in either direction. There is a lot more "apologize and be forgiven" on one side than the other (not fact, just my opinion). I maintain judgment be restrained in all these cases, but then that doesn't satisfy "gotcha" and instant gratification types.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

---

This is beyond me. If you are irreplaceable it's OK to make dumbass remarks, but if you're an ordinary Joe it isn't? This really doesn't sound like you sycasey.

---

That's not what I said. I don't think it's okay to make racist remarks. I'm saying this is just how it is: people who are in more irreplaceable positions are going to get more chances to screw up. That Jackson kept his job but some lawyer or investment banker did not is not evidence of a racial double standard, it's evidence that NFL players are a rarer commodity.

---

I, at the same time, feel that the pressures are not equal in either direction. There is a lot more "apologize and be forgiven" on one side than the other (not fact, just my opinion). I maintain judgment be restrained in all these cases, but then that doesn't satisfy "gotcha" and instant gratification types.

---

I think sometimes "gotcha" style social-media campaigns are harmful to the causes they purport to help. In general I don't think this kind of online shaming helps anyone learn anything.

In this case I don't think we have great evidence that Jackson is getting any more special treatment than other NFL players in a similar situation have gotten.

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

In September 2017, President Trump called on NFL owners to fire any player taking a knee during the National Anthem.

This was World War II vet Carl Reiner's response. Obviously, not all World War II vets think the same way.

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

Your father, and his friends, cannot be offended on behalf of all veterans. They can only be offended on their own behalf. I think they are looking at the situation incorrectly if they are offended. And if I could I would explain why I feel that way, while also listening to their perspective. But I won't listen to someone tell
me that something is "very disrespectful to all who served" when there are MANY who served who do not find it disrespectful. In fact, many who served believe they served to (try to) keep our country a place where Kaepernick could express himself freely.

sycasey said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

---

That argument holds up for wife beating. But kneeling and smoking dope, not so much.

GMP said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

Your father, and his friends, cannot be offended on behalf of all veterans. They can only be offended on their own behalf. I think they are looking at the situation incorrectly if they are offended. And if I could I would explain why I feel that way, while also listening to their perspective. But I won't listen to someone tell
me that something is "very disrespectful to all who served" when there are MANY who served who do not find it disrespectful. In fact, many who served believe they served to (try to) keep our country a place where Kaepernick could express himself freely.

---

Agreed.

My only argument is that the idea that you cant feel disrespected and support something. It's not one or the other. They typically go hand in hand, so I understand the confusion.

People can support the right to burn flags and hate what it represents, as the quote alludes to.

LunchTime said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I tend to agree with your opinion regarding the hypocrisy of it all, but what else would you want in an apology?

---

Nothing. I dont think he should have to apologize. He should post what he wants and play football. He said it publicly, so people can recognize his beliefs, file it away along with the rest of what we know (good and bad) about him, and move on. MAYBE someone in his circle can attempt to educate him. His social media actions are a private matter between his employer and agent, MAYBE. Similar to Roseanne Barr.

My point is that if Jew's oppression and historical trauma was treated the same as black oppression and historical trauma is right now, Jackson would be fired, and a pariah for a couple weeks.

Drew Breeze is not analogous. That is a strawman by both sides. I am not sure how Kap is even related to to this discussion, and I have spent plenty of time trying to lay out my opinion on that small part of society.

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

How is Kap not related? He expressed something that was not even racist but at the time offended the sensibilities of a large group of fans, mostly White fans, and he got blackballed. You are splitting hairs if you are claiming that isn't analogous. What White NFL player has been fired for posting something racist? Further, we have a number of recent cases of White players getting drafted recently after expressing offensive views, so I don't see it stopping anyone from getting a job in the NFL.

People get fired for expressing views that are offensive to others on all sides. People don't get fired for expressing views that are offensive to others on all sides. It largely depends on the timing, the publicity, how it impacts your employer and how important you are to your employer. If a kid gets into Harvard and it turns out that he publicly posted a bunch of racist crap, well, sorry, but Harvard has 20 kids just as talented who want the spot for every kid that gets one. They don't need that crap. Onto the next. NFL teams don't have 20 guys who can fill every slot. That is reality.

Jackson is getting soundly criticized, as he should.

As for whether he should "have to apologize", fine. Don't apologize. But I can criticize a public stance. Terrell Owens used to complain that people criticized him for just being T.O. Well, he can be T.O. all he wants. But in a lot of cases being T.O. was being an ass. f he wants to be an ass, people can judge him for it.

I don't get this argument. He shouldn't be fired, but he would be fired if he were White even though no one like him who has done this has been fired, but we should want him to be fired because we supposedly want others fired, but we shouldn't want him to be fired and meanwhile no one is fired.

Here is the lesson. You want to be able to do and say whatever you want without getting fired? Run a 4.3 forty. If Desean Jackson were an undrafted free agent looking for a camp invite, he wouldn't get one.

OdontoBear66 said:

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sycasey said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Analogous is a white person posting racist **** and getting their college admission yanked or fired from their job.

---

Except we also have examples of white NFL players using racial slurs and being able to keep their jobs. The thing that protects DeSean here is that it's very hard to find people who can play at the NFL level and teams want to keep those guys around. College students and people who hold office jobs are another matter; they are usually replaceable.

---

This is beyond me. If you are irreplaceable it's OK to make dumbass remarks, but if you're an ordinary Joe it isn't? This really doesn't sound like you sycasey.

---

That's not what I said. I don't think it's okay to make racist remarks. I'm saying this is just how it is: people who are in more irreplaceable positions are going to get more chances to screw up. That Jackson kept his job but some lawyer or investment banker did not is not evidence of a racial double standard, it's evidence that NFL players are a rarer commodity.

---

I, at the same time, feel that the pressures are not equal in either direction. There is a lot more "apologize and be forgiven" on one side than the other (not fact, just my opinion). I maintain judgment be restrained in all these cases, but then that doesn't satisfy "gotcha" and instant gratification types.

---

If you are a Black man in a corporate job and you make a bunch of racist remarks about White people, good luck keeping that job. The main difference is that has always been true, so Black men in corporate jobs have no confusion over their ability to do so. A few White people haven't learned that lesson.

In addition, all political sides of the media have an agenda to publicize the story of White person is racist, loses job. All political sides of the media have an agenda to ignore the story of Black person is racist, loses job.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

GMP said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

Your father, and his friends, cannot be offended on behalf of all veterans. They can only be offended on their own behalf. I think they are looking at the situation incorrectly if they are offended. And if I could I would explain why I feel that way, while also listening to their perspective. But I won't listen to someone tell
me that something is "very disrespectful to all who served" when there are MANY who served who do not find it disrespectful. In fact, many who served believe they served to (try to) keep our country a place where Kaepernick could express himself freely.

---

Agreed.

My only argument is that the idea that you cant feel disrespected and support something. It's not one or the other. They typically go hand in hand, so I understand the confusion.

People can support the right to burn flags and hate what it represents, as the quote alludes to.

---

I think we're getting somewhere here. It never bothered me that much when Carlos and Smith raised their fists at the Olympics. I felt I knew what they were trying to communicate and agreed. But it did not do so (although many thought so at the time) in a fashion that was irreverent to the flag. Being an old, old-timer I have a strong sense of what the flag means to those who served both alive and gone. I never liked Kaps taking a knee because you stand rather reverently. So yes, I can totally empathize with Kapernick's protest, and still not like the fact he chose not to stand. He could have raised a fist in protest. You can say he made his point, but he sure didn't need to p*ss off so many who look at the flags traditions differently. Both could have been accomplished

---

I have a real problem with this argument: in what world is kneeling before something disrespectful or irreverent? When he began by sitting on the bench, there was an uproar. A veteran told him he supported his right to draw attention to his cause, but asked that he do so by kneeling. Kaep agreed. Now, just as I said in my previous post, because it was not disrespectful to kneel to this veteran doesn't mean that it wasn't disrespectful to others. But in making that change Kaep made it clear that his point was not to disrespect the flag or the troops, but only to draw attention to his cause.

He went out of his way to change the form of his protest to a pose that is universally recognized as deferential and respectful while still making his point, but that wasn't enough for many, which revealed their lie: nothing he could have ever done would have been respectful enough those for people because the truth is they didn't agree with his message and didn't want to hear it. It sounds like you suggested he should have instead raised a fist. I don't see how those who opposed kneeling would have found a raised fist any more palatable.

Desean; Just shut the *****up!!

The bias and Prejudice experienced by Blacks is minuscule compared to that experienced by the Jews the past
5000 years. In fact, just the last 85 years.

The decision whether Desean should be kicked off the team should be made by Carson Wentz

GMP said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

GMP said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

Your father, and his friends, cannot be offended on behalf of all veterans. They can only be offended on their own behalf. I think they are looking at the situation incorrectly if they are offended. And if I could I would explain why I feel that way, while also listening to their perspective. But I won't listen to someone tell
me that something is "very disrespectful to all who served" when there are MANY who served who do not find it disrespectful. In fact, many who served believe they served to (try to) keep our country a place where Kaepernick could express himself freely.

---

Agreed.

My only argument is that the idea that you cant feel disrespected and support something. It's not one or the other. They typically go hand in hand, so I understand the confusion.

People can support the right to burn flags and hate what it represents, as the quote alludes to.

---

I think we're getting somewhere here. It never bothered me that much when Carlos and Smith raised their fists at the Olympics. I felt I knew what they were trying to communicate and agreed. But it did not do so (although many thought so at the time) in a fashion that was irreverent to the flag. Being an old, old-timer I have a strong sense of what the flag means to those who served both alive and gone. I never liked Kaps taking a knee because you stand rather reverently. So yes, I can totally empathize with Kapernick's protest, and still not like the fact he chose not to stand. He could have raised a fist in protest. You can say he made his point, but he sure didn't need to p*ss off so many who look at the flags traditions differently. Both could have been accomplished

---

I have a real problem with this argument: in what world is kneeling before something disrespectful or irreverent? When he began by sitting on the bench, there was an uproar. A veteran told him he supported his right to draw attention to his cause, but asked that he do so by kneeling. Kaep agreed. Now, just as I said in my previous post, because it was not disrespectful to kneel to this veteran doesn't mean that it wasn't disrespectful to others. But in making that change Kaep made it clear that his point was not to disrespect the flag or the troops, but only to draw attention to his cause.

He went out of his way to change the form of his protest to a pose that is universally recognized as deferential and respectful while still making his point, but that wasn't enough for many, which revealed their lie: nothing he could have ever done would have been respectful enough those for people because the truth is they didn't agree with his message and didn't want to hear it. It sounds like you suggested he should have instead raised a fist. I don't see how those who opposed kneeling would have found a raised fist any more palatable.

---

Well number one, I wasn't proposing and argument. I was "suggesting", and that included raising a fist. It could have been one of a number of things of his choosing, not need be mine, but some salute to Kap's cause that didn't poke others in the eye (yes the flag means a lot to a lot of people as I am sure you have since gathered). The flag is/was not meant to be racist or promote same. Just saying some other form to his choosing. And yes, I recognize that to some it is important to poke the bear in the eye, but not always wise.

edg64 said:

---

Desean; Just shut the *****up!!

The bias and Prejudice experienced by Blacks is minuscule compared to that experienced by the Jews the past
5000 years. In fact, just the last 85 years.

---

Sure, it's much tougher to go through life as a white Jewish person than as a black person.

GMP said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

GMP said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

BearDown2o15 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

okaydo said:

---

StarsDoMatter said:

---

NFL players are silent. Truly disgusting.

Imagine the outrage if a white player said this about blacks or whoever.

NFL players only care when a white guy says something racist. Says a lot about them and the league.

Drew Brees was crucified for saying players should stand !!!!

Disgusting double standard. But why am I not surprised. The liberal media is barely covering it.

---

1. Drew Brees was told repeatedly over 4 years that the kneeling during the National Anthem wasn't protesting veterans. Repeatedly. Then he equated kneeling to disrespecting his WWII grandparents. He wanted to be willfully ignorant.

That's totally unlike DeSean's case.

Also, Brees is one of the highest-profile players in the NFL, the lynchpin of his team. One of the biggest stars. So having somebody in his position say that was disappointing.

In contrast, DeSean was injured most of last year and has barely been a factor in recent years.

2. The "liberal media" has not been ignoring this story.

3. My guess is that DeSean is totally ignorant of Judaism and anti-Semitism. And I bet a lot of players in the NFL are, too. (Even though DeSean is more likely to have encountered Jews having grown up in the Los Angeles basin.) I think that's why there isn't (unfortunately) the visceral reaction.

I think Mitchell Schwartz's brother Geoff is on to something:

https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/ex-giant-not-surprised-by-nfl-players-silence-over-desean-jackson/





4. DeSean now has apologized twice, has vowed to meet with rabbis, has apologized to the owner, his bosses.

The reason this is big news is that there hasn't been (as far as I know) any indication that DeSean has expressed these kind of viewpoints before. I stopped following him on social media a while back. But generally when high-profile people are ousted for racist behavior, it isn't because of an isolated incident (see Roseanne and Megyn Kelly). If he's fired, fine, he'll learn the lesson about hatred the hard way. If he's not, and he genuinely shows remorse (and it's not part of a pattern of behavior), then he could turn this into something positive.

I also asked my father a few years ago (since passed) and he fought in the Battle of the Bulge, award Bronze Star and Purple Heart and he was very clear in his beliefs and those of the men whom he stayed in contact with, that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to those that served for our country.

---

Kaepernick has tweeted his opinion of the country and the military. The idea that he kneeled to be respectful because some random vet why was SF said it was still respectful is garbage.

Maybe some or most of them respect the military, but Colin Kaepernick does not. If we are going to credit him with the movement, credit him, all inclusive. Admit all evidence.

Regardless, Jackson wont see much blowback from this. You can say anything you want about Jews and IF confronted give a half assed apology and get away with it. It's been that way for like 5000 years. Pretending that it's a big deal is humorous. People will do backflips to excuse antisemitism.

---

I asked my father if kneeling in front of a flag was disrespectful.

He said "No"

But he is just some random vet who was awarded a Purple Heart, so he obviously knows nothing.

By the way, what is your military record look like?

---

---

I also asked my father a few years ago before he passed his thoughts on kneeling. He fought in the Battle of the Bulge, awarded Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He and the men who served with him and whom he stayed in contact with, all felt strongly that kneeling during our National Anthem was very disrespectful to all those who served in the military.

---

Your father, and his friends, cannot be offended on behalf of all veterans. They can only be offended on their own behalf. I think they are looking at the situation incorrectly if they are offended. And if I could I would explain why I feel that way, while also listening to their perspective. But I won't listen to someone tell
me that something is "very disrespectful to all who served" when there are MANY who served who do not find it disrespectful. In fact, many who served believe they served to (try to) keep our country a place where Kaepernick could express himself freely.

---

Agreed.

My only argument is that the idea that you cant feel disrespected and support something. It's not one or the other. They typically go hand in hand, so I understand the confusion.

People can support the right to burn flags and hate what it represents, as the quote alludes to.

---

I think we're getting somewhere here. It never bothered me that much when Carlos and Smith raised their fists at the Olympics. I felt I knew what they were trying to communicate and agreed. But it did not do so (although many thought so at the time) in a fashion that was irreverent to the flag. Being an old, old-timer I have a strong sense of what the flag means to those who served both alive and gone. I never liked Kaps taking a knee because you stand rather reverently. So yes, I can totally empathize with Kapernick's protest, and still not like the fact he chose not to stand. He could have raised a fist in protest. You can say he made his point, but he sure didn't need to p*ss off so many who look at the flags traditions differently. Both could have been accomplished

---

I have a real problem with this argument: in what world is kneeling before something disrespectful or irreverent? When he began by sitting on the bench, there was an uproar. A veteran told him he supported his right to draw attention to his cause, but asked that he do so by kneeling. Kaep agreed. Now, just as I said in my previous post, because it was not disrespectful to kneel to this veteran doesn't mean that it wasn't disrespectful to others. But in making that change Kaep made it clear that his point was not to disrespect the flag or the troops, but only to draw attention to his cause.

He went out of his way to change the form of his protest to a pose that is universally recognized as deferential and respectful while still making his point, but that wasn't enough for many, which revealed their lie: nothing he could have ever done would have been respectful enough those for people because the truth is they didn't agree with his message and didn't want to hear it. It sounds like you suggested he should have instead raised a fist. I don't see how those who opposed kneeling would have found a raised fist any more palatable.

---

I agree with some and disagree with some of what you say. When he kneeled and was noticed, Kap said:

Quote:

---

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder. This is not something that I am going to run by anybody," he said. "I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right."

---

The 49ers issued the following statement:

Quote:

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The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pregame ceremony," the statement said. "It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose to participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem.

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I am basically on board with the 49ers statement. I have expressed before that I think his protest was a strategic mistake and I still believe that his importance in raising the issue is revising history. I think he derailed the issue. I also expressed at the time, that I valued a simple demonstration of unity that I think the playing of the anthem represented. That no matter what our political beliefs we are one country. I wished that people would not use that moment as a platform to protest because once someone does everyone will. I think that was pretty accurate. But, I support his right to do what I wished he wouldn't. Just as I support the right of people to burn the flag even though I strongly disagree. (Don't like burning anyone's flag, to be honest). I have basically also said at this point, the eggs are broken. Let's make an omelet. I would be willing to kneel for the anthem in 2020 in a way I would not have been willing to then.

I agree with you that for many, it was the message they didn't like and there was nothing he could have done to make them happy. I don't think any thing he changed would have made an appreciable difference. I supported the players who protested in their own way after Trump made a big hairy deal out of it. I think almost all of them did it with full respect and most of their statements made that clear.

But I'm sorry, we can't say that for Kap. You say in what world is kneeling disrespectful. It can be a lot of things. It can worshipful. It can be submissive. It can be respect. And it can be sitting out. In what world is it disrespectful? In the world where the kneeler says he intends it to be.

You look at his explanation. I know some will think this is semantics, but words matter. Take away the first sentence and I am 1000% on board with him. However, after he utters the first sentence you cannot think that he does not intend disrespect. He fully intends it. That was the point. You may think the disrespect is reasonable. I think it might be. But let's be honest about the statement. We are not doing any good to the argument by pretending he is supplicating or trying to show respect while delivering another message. He didn't say that he knelt to draw attention to the issue of police violence. He said he is "not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color". He is mad at the country the flag represents and his act is to refuse to acknowledge its flag. I don't know how much more plain the intent could be. I will also add that the statement is intentionally worded to reference "a country" like he is disassociated from the United States of America. Plain and simple, if this were a SCOTUS opinion, I would have written a concurrence. My concurrence would have been "I will stand for the flag of my country, the United States of America, and I will stand with Kap that we need to make a change because my country is far from a perfect union and what he is bringing attention to is a grave injustice and as an American I take responsibility for my part. My 330 millionth of my country." We cannot pretend that my message is the same as Kap's. His message is clearly "Your country is oppressing my people and I (literally) won't stand for it". It is not "my government is oppressing my people" He intends to disassociate himself and he intends the disrespect. This is not a one time thing. He has made similar statements with similar construction, one very recently.

Doesn't make him wrong. But if he is right in that, let's make that argument to Odonto - yeah, he is ticked off. He is refusing to honor the flag. He has every reason to be ticked off. His people are dying. Not that he means no disrespect but is making a statement. That is just clearly not the case.