That program is toast.

Plus winters there suck.

Which is worse, to lose or to not play. If losing is worse, then aren't we winning.\?

I was always a Michigan fan. Then they hired Hairball, and I started rooting against them.

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

Efini said:

---

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

---

I'd prefer to see our Bears to play. But way above my pay grade to make the call.

The unheralded/rebuilding Spartan team that beat Michigan in Ann Arbor last week gets blown out at home.

Efini said:

---

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

---

Kids, at least, get that this is a balls up year and that a loss means less than, failure to try.

They also understand (when told) that the death rate is falling, that football is being played routinely all over the country (including where they live, if nonCA) and what kind of a state is it that might tell you next what you can and can't do in the presence of the flu, pneumonia or measles?

ColoradoBear said:

---

Plus winters there suck.

---

I'm a Berkeley guy who went to UM for grad school in the late '70s and you're right about the winters. But Ann Arbor is a classic college town very much like Berkeley. Before attending, I went back and visited a friend and as we drunkenly walked back to his apartment one night, a street corner reminded me of Telegraph and Durant and I thought, "If we were in Berkeley, La Vals would be right up the street.". Sure enough, I looked up the block and there was a pizza place and I thought, "Yeah, this might be the place for me". Of course, it was late September and little did I know what lay in store in January . . . and February . . . and March . . . and April.

September and October are kind of magic back there. Running through the UM Arboretum along the Huron River was spectacular . . . great times. But when it came time to job-hunt, it was back to the West Coast for me!

Rushinbear said:

---

Efini said:

---

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

---

Kids, at least, get that this is a balls up year and that a loss means less than, failure to try.

They also understand (when told) that the death rate is falling, that football is being played routinely all over the country (including where they live, if nonCA) and what kind of a state is it that might tell you next what you can and can't do in the presence of the flu, pneumonia or measles?

---

This is just getting silly: Taking the PAC-12 response to a once in a 100 year pandemic that has killed 230,000 Americans (and still counting) with no generally available vaccines and extrapolating that to how we will deal with annually recurring diseases for which there are vaccines.

GivemTheAxe said:

---

Rushinbear said:

---

Efini said:

---

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

---

Kids, at least, get that this is a balls up year and that a loss means less than, failure to try.

They also understand (when told) that the death rate is falling, that football is being played routinely all over the country (including where they live, if nonCA) and what kind of a state is it that might tell you next what you can and can't do in the presence of the flu, pneumonia or measles?

---

This is just getting silly: Taking the PAC-12 response to a once in a 100 year pandemic that has killed 230,000 Americans (and still counting) with no generally available vaccines and extrapolating that to how we will deal with annually recurring diseases for which there are vaccines.

---

False equivalency is the stock-in-trade of a certain set of Americans. It's how they justify acting like delta bravos and putting their fellow Americans at risk.

The death rate IS falling. Hospitals and medical people are now more equipped than ever to handle this thing. And yes, while there are aberrations (like there are to many things), young people for the most part are doing fine. Some get it, but are asymptomatic in a great many cases. And very few of the young are dying from it. Yes a few are, but we also lose young people in their cars (which some don't want them to drive), from drinking/drugs (which is increasing), depression/suicide (which is increasing and at alarmingly young ages), lack of food (in some cases due to parents unable to work), and in the midwest and east especially, from the elements because with no job, there is no payment of utility bills.

I'm not saying to throw caution out. I'm saying to move on cautiously. I'm in a higher risk group. But I'm not going to give up going to the store, going to church, or going to family outings. And if the opportunity came to go to Cal football or rugby, I'd do so thoughtfully, carefully, and wisely. But shutting this country down will do far worse overall than dealing with this thing head on.

If you want to stay home, do so. Isolate yourself to your heart's desire. I'm doing that for the most part myself. But I'm not going to stop living altogether. I know first hand how this thing is affecting people with addictions and depression. Far more people are dealing with that, and the possible dangerous consequences, than are going to die from the virus. I can't find stats to back that up. But personal experience/observation makes that point very clear.

As for Michigan, and other programs, this is one of those asterisk seasons. In future years, no one will look at the results of this season and compare them to a regular season because this is NOT a regular season. It's an inconvenient truth, but that's life.

If Cal went undefeated this year, do you really think it would have the same merit it would have had if it had been a regular season? This is like looking at football during the WW2 years. Everyone knows those were abnormal years. We can respect the teams that succeeded despite the war circumstances. But we don't look at those teams the same as we do when we analyze regular seasons.

TomBear said:

---

The death rate IS falling. Hospitals and medical people are now more equipped than ever to handle this thing. And yes, while there are aberrations (like there are to many things), young people for the most part are doing fine. Some get it, but are asymptomatic in a great many cases. And very few of the young are dying from it. Yes a few are, but we also lose young people in their cars (which some don't want them to drive), from drinking/drugs (which is increasing), depression/suicide (which is increasing and at alarmingly young ages), lack of food (in some cases due to parents unable to work), and in the midwest and east especially, from the elements because with no job, there is no payment of utility bills.

I'm not saying to throw caution out. I'm saying to move on cautiously. I'm in a higher risk group. But I'm not going to give up going to the store, going to church, or going to family outings. And if the opportunity came to go to Cal football or rugby, I'd do so thoughtfully, carefully, and wisely. But shutting this country down will do far worse overall than dealing with this thing head on.

If you want to stay home, do so. Isolate yourself to your heart's desire. I'm doing that for the most part myself. But I'm not going to stop living altogether. I know first hand how this thing is affecting people with addictions and depression. Far more people are dealing with that, and the possible dangerous consequences, than are going to die from the virus. I can't find stats to back that up. But personal experience/observation makes that point very clear.

As for Michigan, and other programs, this is one of those asterisk seasons. In future years, no one will look at the results of this season and compare them to a regular season because this is NOT a regular season. It's an inconvenient truth, but that's life.

If Cal went undefeated this year, do you really think it would have the same merit it would have had if it had been a regular season? This is like looking at football during the WW2 years. Everyone knows those were abnormal years. We can respect the teams that succeeded despite the war circumstances. But we don't look at those teams the same as we do when we analyze regular seasons.

---

Well said on all counts.

Keep at it, Chester. Spike will be your friend if you keep praising him like this.

TomBear said:

---

The death rate IS falling. Hospitals and medical people are now more equipped than ever to handle this thing. And yes, while there are aberrations (like there are to many things), young people for the most part are doing fine. Some get it, but are asymptomatic in a great many cases. And very few of the young are dying from it. Yes a few are, but we also lose young people in their cars (which some don't want them to drive), from drinking/drugs (which is increasing), depression/suicide (which is increasing and at alarmingly young ages), lack of food (in some cases due to parents unable to work), and in the midwest and east especially, from the elements because with no job, there is no payment of utility bills.

I'm not saying to throw caution out. I'm saying to move on cautiously. I'm in a higher risk group. But I'm not going to give up going to the store, going to church, or going to family outings. And if the opportunity came to go to Cal football or rugby, I'd do so thoughtfully, carefully, and wisely. But shutting this country down will do far worse overall than dealing with this thing head on.

If you want to stay home, do so. Isolate yourself to your heart's desire. I'm doing that for the most part myself. But I'm not going to stop living altogether. I know first hand how this thing is affecting people with addictions and depression. Far more people are dealing with that, and the possible dangerous consequences, than are going to die from the virus. I can't find stats to back that up. But personal experience/observation makes that point very clear.

As for Michigan, and other programs, this is one of those asterisk seasons. In future years, no one will look at the results of this season and compare them to a regular season because this is NOT a regular season. It's an inconvenient truth, but that's life.

If Cal went undefeated this year, do you really think it would have the same merit it would have had if it had been a regular season? This is like looking at football during the WW2 years. Everyone knows those were abnormal years. We can respect the teams that succeeded despite the war circumstances. But we don't look at those teams the same as we do when we analyze regular seasons.

---

I'm happy to go down this path with you generally, but when you say you aren't going to give up certain things, and some of those things are among the highest risk behaviors, that kind of undercuts everything you are saying.

If people had worn masks since advised in April, stayed out of bars, restaurants, gyms, attended church remotely only gone to the store when necessary, avoided indoor family gatherings and kept outdoor family gatherings small, the transmission rate would have been cut to the point where there would have been little question that outdoor sports could be played as they are lower risk for spreading the virus and the level of occurrence of the virus in the community would have been low enough that the risk of that activity would be very low. Those are the riskiest activities and people engaging in them have fueled the spread and made every other activity riskier.

Being willing to take the individual risk of engaging in activities where spread is much riskier, makes the community risk of every other activity worse. You can say we should take a common sense approach, but a common sense approach includes finding out what behaviors are the most likely to contribute to the spread. So, you can say you aren't going to give up church or family gatherings, and boy you wish you could go to Cal football, but one follows from the other. When you and others chose what you weren't willing to give up, you chose not to see Cal football.

Canada is seeing a spike in cases attributable to their Thanksgiving last month. We are going to see the same with ours because people will not give up their family gatherings.

I also think it is quite clear that some of you have hit Covid fatigue and are not paying attention to what is going on. We have more hospitalizations now than when we had our peak in April. Deaths have skyrocketed over the past couple of weeks. I would be very surprised if we are not at 400,000 deaths by end of March, and I think it is likely going to be a lot higher - I'm being very conservative. All signs point to a brutal winter. Our 7 day rolling average of deaths per day is almost 1200 and that is up over 50% in a week. Europe is going into the stratosphere. It is very clear at this point there is going to be a second wave and we are at the very beginning of the curve.

It is quite simple at this point. The information is out there. Large gatherings bad. Indoor gatherings, really bad. Indoor restaurants, bars, gyms, church, staying in hotels really, really bad. (recent study indicates they are responsible for 80% of the transmission) Stores somewhat bad depending on how many people are in there.

Being willing to wear a mask and being willing to give up restaurants, bars, gyms, indoor church and large gatherings, and staying in hotels and replace those things with other activities (geez, get take out, buy your own booze, exercise at home or outside, and attend church online. Have zoom calls with friends) would mean most things can go back to reasonable normal. Do things outside more. Our kids could be in normal school full time. We could be engaging in many activities right now, just not every activity.

I know of someone who works at an essential job. She was as careful as possible given her circumstances. She is not in an at risk group. She got Covid. Problem is, her grandmother who lives with her is in an at risk group. Now this woman has to live with the fact that she gave her grandmother Covid and her grandmother is dead. That is the cost of "taking the risk". It isn't just for you. This woman had no choice but to work and her grandmother had nowhere else to go.

I'm sorry to bag on you. You seem to be trying to take a cautious approach. But the things you are not willing to give up are not being cautious. Eliminating a few high risk activities could go a long way to allowing those with depression and addiction to have many many low risk activities at their disposal and frankly would allow you and the rest of us to do so as well.

Oaktown your raised some thoughtful points. Here's the thing.........

Everyone pointed to Europe saying they were doing things "right" by closing down. What happened? They had a worse spike than we did. And they STILL haven't recovered, and in fact it seems some over there are going to try to go the opposite direction and shut down even more.

Our numbers are up because we're testing a lot more than we were. And there are all sorts of folks running around with Covid who don't even know they have it because they're asymptomatic. Our population is what, 300 million? (I really don't know.....I could look it up, but I want to eat dinner instead)

On top of that, our healthcare facilities and people are far more equipped to deal with this thing than we were back in March/April+ Our percentage of death is decreasing, and it looks like we're pretty darn close to a vaccine. We know a lot more about it, and are continuing to learn.

I get your points. They're good points to some degree. I'm just not surrendering to more shut downs, loss of life due to shut downs, and associated consequences. To me, as has been said by others, the solution can't be worse than the virus.

But I'm not going to be cavalier about what I do, nor am I encouraging others to be either. I'm going to live life as close to normal as I can, with some self imposed precautions, and God willing, I'll get through this thing and look forward to as close to a normal life as possible when it's all over.

In order to keep this football related, I think the Michigan game this weekend will be really interesting. There's a big difference in the experience both teams have had so far this "season", and if Michigan loses this one, it will be interesting to see how the fan base reacts. This is an abnormal season with a huge asterisk by it. Would anyone fire a coach given the circumstances this year? No matter how a team performs?

TomBear said:

---

Oaktown your raised some thoughtful points. Here's the thing.........

Everyone pointed to Europe saying they were doing things "right" by closing down. What happened? They had a worse spike than we did. And they STILL haven't recovered, and in fact it seems some over there are going to try to go the opposite direction and shut down even more.

Our numbers are up because we're testing a lot more than we were. And there are all sorts of folks running around with Covid who don't even know they have it because they're asymptomatic. Our population is what, 300 million? (I really don't know.....I could look it up, but I want to eat dinner instead)

On top of that, our healthcare facilities and people are far more equipped to deal with this thing than we were back in March/April+ Our percentage of death is decreasing, and it looks like we're pretty darn close to a vaccine. We know a lot more about it, and are continuing to learn.

I get your points. They're good points to some degree. I'm just not surrendering to more shut downs, loss of life due to shut downs, and associated consequences. To me, as has been said by others, the solution can't be worse than the virus.

But I'm not going to be cavalier about what I do, nor am I encouraging others to be either. I'm going to live life as close to normal as I can, with some self imposed precautions, and God willing, I'll get through this thing and look forward to as close to a normal life as possible when it's all over.

In order to keep this football related, I think the Michigan game this weekend will be really interesting. There's a big difference in the experience both teams have had so far this "season", and if Michigan loses this one, it will be interesting to see how the fan base reacts. This is an abnormal season with a huge asterisk by it. Would anyone fire a coach given the circumstances this year? No matter how a team performs?

---

Few pointed to Europe. Europe's response sucked. Most pointed to Asia. Rightfully so. The few who pointed to Europe pointed there because our response was even worse than theirs. We are ahead of most countries in Europe in deaths per capita and they have much higher population density than we have.

We are not seeing this many more cases because we are testing more. This is flat out false. We are seeing some more positives than in the spring because we are testing more. We are not seeing 170K positives today vs. 35K a month ago because we are testing more. We are testing only a little bit more now than we were then. Most of the increase in cases is due to an increase percentage of tests coming back positive.

Our medical facilities are somewhat more capable of treating the disease. It isn't as much as people seem to think. Much of the reason they are doing better is that they are not overwhelmed, which may or may not hold.

I haven't advocated shutdowns in months. What I have advocated is focusing on what is transmitting the disease. Wear masks. Do not go to restaurants, bars, gyms and church. Do not have gatherings of people outside your household. Replace these with outdoor socially distanced activities.

I'm sorry, but again, the comment about cases going up because of testing is 5 months out of date. I think that cautious is being continually up to date and responding to that. I guess what I'm saying is that the self imposed precautions you say you are adopting are not well tailored to the latest information on the disease. The things you say you aren't willing to give up are the precise things that would actually make a difference. I suspect you are instead giving up things you don't need to.

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

Rushinbear said:

---

Efini said:

---

Not playing is worse for recruiting, 4* or 5* kids who are trying to work towards the NFL would rather be on a team that loses some games than sitting in their dorms for weeks on end.

---

Kids, at least, get that this is a balls up year and that a loss means less than, failure to try.

They also understand (when told) that the death rate is falling?!, that football is being played routinely all over the country (including where they live, if nonCA) and what kind of a state is it that might tell you next what you can and can't do in the presence of the flu, pneumonia or measles?

---

The death rate may be falling per case of infection, but it is not falling per day. Overall the death rate is a concern because so many ICUs are overwhelmed that emergency medical workers cannot be spared from one area to go help another area. This was not the case during other bad spikes in the U.S. earlier in the year. Circumstances like this makes contracting the disease so much more dangerous than it was before, even if you are at lower risk.

OaktownBear said:

---

TomBear said:

---

Oaktown your raised some thoughtful points. Here's the thing.........

Everyone pointed to Europe saying they were doing things "right" by closing down. What happened? They had a worse spike than we did. And they STILL haven't recovered, and in fact it seems some over there are going to try to go the opposite direction and shut down even more.

Our numbers are up because we're testing a lot more than we were. And there are all sorts of folks running around with Covid who don't even know they have it because they're asymptomatic. Our population is what, 300 million? (I really don't know.....I could look it up, but I want to eat dinner instead)

On top of that, our healthcare facilities and people are far more equipped to deal with this thing than we were back in March/April+ Our percentage of death is decreasing, and it looks like we're pretty darn close to a vaccine. We know a lot more about it, and are continuing to learn.

I get your points. They're good points to some degree. I'm just not surrendering to more shut downs, loss of life due to shut downs, and associated consequences. To me, as has been said by others, the solution can't be worse than the virus.

But I'm not going to be cavalier about what I do, nor am I encouraging others to be either. I'm going to live life as close to normal as I can, with some self imposed precautions, and God willing, I'll get through this thing and look forward to as close to a normal life as possible when it's all over.

In order to keep this football related, I think the Michigan game this weekend will be really interesting. There's a big difference in the experience both teams have had so far this "season", and if Michigan loses this one, it will be interesting to see how the fan base reacts. This is an abnormal season with a huge asterisk by it. Would anyone fire a coach given the circumstances this year? No matter how a team performs?

---

Few pointed to Europe. Europe's response sucked. Most pointed to Asia. Rightfully so. The few who pointed to Europe pointed there because our response was even worse than theirs. We are ahead of most countries in Europe in deaths per capita and they have much higher population density than we have.

We are not seeing this many more cases because we are testing more. This is flat out false. We are seeing some more positives than in the spring because we are testing more. We are not seeing 170K positives today vs. 35K a month ago because we are testing more. We are testing only a little bit more now than we were then. Most of the increase in cases is due to an increase percentage of tests coming back positive.

Our medical facilities are somewhat more capable of treating the disease. It isn't as much as people seem to think. Much of the reason they are doing better is that they are not overwhelmed, which may or may not hold.

I haven't advocated shutdowns in months. What I have advocated is focusing on what is transmitting the disease. Wear masks. Do not go to restaurants, bars, gyms and church. Do not have gatherings of people outside your household. Replace these with outdoor socially distanced activities.

I'm sorry, but again, the comment about cases going up because of testing is 5 months out of date. I think that cautious is being continually up to date and responding to that. I guess what I'm saying is that the self imposed precautions you say you are adopting are not well tailored to the latest information on the disease. The things you say you aren't willing to give up are the precise things that would actually make a difference. I suspect you are instead giving up things you don't need to.

---

Amazingly enough, Europeans can be every bit as dumb as Americans. That can sometimes be hard to grasp, seeing as they are able to speak all those foreign languages so well, but it's true! They are facing some of the same COVID challenges over there that we are here. Huge surge there now. France has been way worse than us in new cases per capita, over the past month.

Still, they have done better overall with this than we have. In another thread, I think it was last month, I posted some data: Five of the largest European countries (UK, France, Italy, Spain and Germany), add up their populations and it just about equals ours. They are also democratic countries with advanced health care and had early exposure to the virus. So apples to apples. When we were at 225,000 COVID deaths, they were at something like 150,000. So that would have been a realistic outcome for us, if we had not totally screwed this up. 75,000 less deaths. Seventy-five thousand.

If you want to take the country from that group that has done by far the best with COVID -- Germany -- that would be a LOT fewer deaths per capita. By multiples. Might it have been even within the bounds of possibility that we could have done as well as Germany? I mean, we beat them in two wars, after all. No, that would have been asking too much. The Germans are so, you know... disciplined. How could we possibly compete with them?

AunBear89 said:

---

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

OdontoBear66 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

---

I believe it was outdoors, not indoors. Significant difference. Curious as to how the seating was spaced out. But because of the 3+ households, he has admitted he made a poor decision.

Big C said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

---

I believe it was outdoors, not indoors. Significant difference. Curious as to how the seating was spaced out. But because of the 3+ households, he has admitted he made a poor decision.

---

Sounds like all that may be true, but the message projected not good at all. I am all for cautious quaranteening and am doing so, but do not like do as I say in any context. C'mon Big C, this is BS on his part. Do the deed and apologize then forgiveness. BS. Stupid move, yes.

This thread title has aged VERY well, Michigan is not loving life right now.

What's it going to take to have UM leave Harbaugh on the tarmac. Guess not tonight, as it's a home game.

TomBear said:

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I'm not saying to throw caution out. I'm saying to move on cautiously. I'm in a higher risk group. But I'm not going to give up going to the store, going to church, or going to family outings. And if the opportunity came to go to Cal football or rugby, I'd do so thoughtfully, carefully, and wisely. But shutting this country down will do far worse overall than dealing with this thing head on.

If you want to stay home, do so. Isolate yourself to your heart's desire. I'm doing that for the most part myself. But I'm not going to stop living altogether. I know first hand how this thing is affecting people with addictions and depression. Far more people are dealing with that, and the possible dangerous consequences, than are going to die from the virus. I can't find stats to back that up. But personal experience/observation makes that point very clear.

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I agree with what you're saying here.

Personally, I think all the universities put dollars in front of common sense this year in having seasons and for that, universities have no excuse. I'm not so much concerned about my own safety, as I can take care of myself fine, but the players are the ones taking the risks.

That said, this shutdown has become ridiculous at this point. For one thing, it's not even a real shutdown. We've been half-assing it from the beginning and we've paid a severe price for that and I'm not talking about solely in terms of infections and deaths. Millions of people have lost jobs and businesses from the economic consequences of what we did. If we had locked down earlier and protected people's income, we probably could have really nipped it in the bud, but what's done is done at this point. The virus is very much in the wild now and isolating yourselves, while it may keep you safer from the virus, has other very real consequences. Health is much more than just whether you have an infection or not and in my opinion, the people who have never caught the virus have suffered invisible health consequences from being isolated for eight months from life.

I'm not for throwing caution to the wind and going to a crowded rave maskless, but there are plenty of ways to leave your house and get the healthy social interaction that people need to remain sane while still following best practices. But fear has caused people to not make rational responses to this.

OaktownBear said:

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I also think it is quite clear that some of you have hit Covid fatigue and are not paying attention to what is going on. We have more hospitalizations now than when we had our peak in April. Deaths have skyrocketed over the past couple of weeks. I would be very surprised if we are not at 400,000 deaths by end of March, and I think it is likely going to be a lot higher - I'm being very conservative. All signs point to a brutal winter. Our 7 day rolling average of deaths per day is almost 1200 and that is up over 50% in a week. Europe is going into the stratosphere. It is very clear at this point there is going to be a second wave and we are at the very beginning of the curve.

It is quite simple at this point. The information is out there. Large gatherings bad. Indoor gatherings, really bad. Indoor restaurants, bars, gyms, church, staying in hotels really, really bad. (recent study indicates they are responsible for 80% of the transmission) Stores somewhat bad depending on how many people are in there.

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On the other hand, Sweden (who got killed early on for their response to the virus and probably deservedly so) does not have skyrocketing deaths. They've had a little recent uptick recently, but it could be argued that by taking some of their "medicine" (for lack of a better way to put it) early, they are building up immunity within their country that we haven't by isolation.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

If you think the best decision for you personally is to not have Thanksgiving, I don't begrudge you that choice. We'll have six people at our house, none of whom has had the virus and one who is at risk due to age. But life is not a riskless endeavor. People die in car crashes, but we still drive cars. People die from alcohol abuse, but they still have the choice to consume alcohol (and the shutdown has increased that with a lot of people). At some point, you have to live your life and do the best you can.

If you could link that study about how 80% of the transmissions are coming from restaurants, bars, gyms, churches, and hotels, I'd be interested to see it.

More Americans have died from the Covet virus in 2020 that have died in all of America's wars. Please do not forget about that when talking resumption.

OdontoBear66 said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Grigsby said:

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It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

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"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

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And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

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While I'm a Newsome supporter, but there is no question that he is rich, privileged, and spoiled, and is perfectly capable of acting like it. For the most part, as governor, Newsome has shown the kind of discipline and maturity that he lacked earlier in his political career. The French Laundry thing was boneheaded and showed he may have COVID fatigue, too.

Fyght4Cal said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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AunBear89 said:

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Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

---

While I'm a Newsome supporter, but there is no question that he is rich, privileged, and spoiled, and is perfectly capable of acting like it. For the most part, as governor, Newsome has shown the kind of discipline and maturity that he lacked earlier in his political career. The French Laundry thing was boneheaded and showed he may have COVID fatigue, too.

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Who is Newsome?

Kaworu said:

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Fyght4Cal said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

---

While I'm a Newsome supporter, but there is no question that he is rich, privileged, and spoiled, and is perfectly capable of acting like it. For the most part, as governor, Newsome has shown the kind of discipline and maturity that he lacked earlier in his political career. The French Laundry thing was boneheaded and showed he may have COVID fatigue, too.

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Who is Newsome?

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Don't be a ****** bag.

GMP said:

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Kaworu said:

---

Fyght4Cal said:

---

OdontoBear66 said:

---

AunBear89 said:

---

Grigsby said:

---

It's amazing that people can encroach this level of stupidity.

The virus is spreading exponentially because it's extremely contagious not because the of the bull**** the orange buffoon says that more testing causes more cases.

The US is at all time high number of hospitalized, and the hospitals are starting to run out of room.

What do of you think is going to happen when there are 100k, 150k, 200k are hospitalized? We going to get to these numbers.

There isn't unlimited space or staff so when the threshold is crossed, doctors will have to choose who lives or dies.

If there staff is spread to thin there will be people who die simply because there are enough people to handle volume.

It's almost like people would rather that people die than be "inconvenienced".

---

"It's not a mask; it's a muzzle!" This sentiment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity and selfishness of our fellow humans.

My contention since March is that we are f&cked because success depends so much upon EVERYONE doing the right thing: wearing a mask, social distancing, properly washing hands, etc. But to expect that from all of us amounts to "Nanny state" and depriving people of their right to be selfish arseholes.

---

And to add a dash of hypocrisy our restrictive and punitive governor was caught by the Comical at the French Laundry with 3+ families having a birthday celebration for a supporter. Do as I say....Not...........
Now if it were Cuomo, I would get it, but Newsom??? I didn't like some of his punitive behavior but this is over the top for someone who has so acted in his capacity as Governor. Sheesh.

---

While I'm a Newsome supporter, but there is no question that he is rich, privileged, and spoiled, and is perfectly capable of acting like it. For the most part, as governor, Newsome has shown the kind of discipline and maturity that he lacked earlier in his political career. The French Laundry thing was boneheaded and showed he may have COVID fatigue, too.

---

Who is Newsome?

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Don't be a ****** bag.

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I make one spelling mistake in 20 years, and some rook wants to try me. Get some time in kid, before showing your drawers.

BEAR2dBONE said:

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More Americans have died from the Covet virus in 2020 that have died in all of America's wars. Please do not forget about that when talking resumption.

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Sorry, but I don't believe that's even close to being true*. Still, 240,000+ (and counting) is way more Americans than needed to have died from COVID.



* Civil War and WWII each had more, just on their own

Yeah, the numbers yelled at top of lungs were completely inaccurate. More than a million Americans lost their lives in The Civil War and WWII combined. It would be nice if one could reference correct numbers/evidence when making an otherwise good point.