Marcel Dancy

2,308 Views | 31 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by chazzed
heartofthebear
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I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
HoopDreams
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heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
totally agree
he's a change up from the power tackle to tackle runner

he's got a lot of shake and can get extra yards
KoreAmBear
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He played great today. Very shifty.
chazzed
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Brown is a better option when it comes to our featured back (not that it is an option right now), but there is no doubt that Dancy is solid. We always seem to have a couple of game-ready running backs.
Big C
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He was out there plenty today ("feature back", such as it was). If CBJ doesn't get healthy, there'll be more. He had a good game this afternoon.
calgldnbear
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Next man up ....
Rushinbear
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How'd he learn to stop spinning?
mbBear
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heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
I think he was at his top end yesterday. I don't think he is fast/quick enough (relative to size) to give you more than what we saw. Not to mean in anyway that he didn't give a great effort, but we want him to be something more than what he is....
heartofthebear
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mbBear said:

heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
I think he was at his top end yesterday. I don't think he is fast/quick enough (relative to size) to give you more than what we saw. Not to mean in anyway that he didn't give a great effort, but we want him to be something more than what he is....
This is pretty much the way he's been the whole time.
He's pretty consistent.

Chris Brown has the body to carry more of the load, but, when he's not in, Dancy should be carrying at least 20 times. They had a true frosh carry 12 times yesterday and Dancy only 17. Dancy has had injury issues but no more than any other back in recent memory. He can carry as much as Khalfani Muhammed used to I would think.

He averages more yards/carry than any other player on the team.
heartofthebear
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BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
calumnus
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heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.


I've been a fan of Dancy since he first arrived. I think Baldwin mismanaged the RB group.

In 2017, Baldwin clearly favored Enwere (3.7 ypc) early (101 carries) even though it was obvious to me Laird (5.9 ypc) was the better back and was more productive from the get go. It took Baldwin half the season before making Laird the feature back (191 carries). He never figured out that McMorris as an H-back sealing the edge with pancake blocks or going out for a short pass was his best weapon.

In 2018, Baldwin made Laird (4.3 ypc) the feature back (223 carries) but he was clearly hampered by injuries unable to bounce outside when the predictable run up the middle was stuffed. The principle backup (37 carries) was Brown (4.0 ypc) who also lacked speed to the edge. Dancy (5.8 ypc) was the back who could make things happen (something that offense desperately needed other than QB runs) but only got 14 carries (but was able to redshirt?). Again McMorris was not utilized.

In 2019, Brown (4.4 ypc) was the feature back (208 carries) but was very ineffective running predictably up the middle on first down from a standing start out of the shotgun. He is big (230 same as out tight ends, bigger than our FBs) and is a downhill runner. He is good when he has a head of steam and can make a cut. His size is only an advantage in running over DBs, which he doesn't get to do often. Last year Dancy (4.4 ypc) did not look as fast as the previous year, reportedly he was hampered by injuries but was the principle backup (57 carries). The guy that looked quick and most effective was Collins (5.2 ypc) and with 38 carries pushed Dancy for the limited backup carries. I wanted him to get a lot more carries. Now he is not on the roster. Did we ever hear where he ended up?

So far this year Dancy (4.2 ypc) again looks better than Brown (3.1 ypc) but I hope that if there is someone else with some speed and moves (Street? Brooks? Moore? Stredick?) they get a chance. We need playmakers.

I like the idea of using Brown as the H-Back, lining him up in the backfield alongside a quicker back. You then motion one of them out to the slot. You then run sweeps, reverses, screens, fake screen draw, play action..... The key is getting our best players on the field, forcing the defense to defend the whole field back attacking the edges, get the defense to worry about our run game so we can free up the WRs and take some shots down field.
heartofthebear
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calumnus said:

heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.


I've been a fan of Dancy since he first arrived. I think Baldwin mismanaged the RB group.

In 2017, Baldwin clearly favored Enwere (3.7 ypc) early (101 carries) even though it was obvious to me Laird (5.9 ypc) was the better back and was more productive from the get go. It took Baldwin half the season before making Laird the feature back (191 carries). He never figured out that McMorris as an H-back sealing the edge with pancake blocks or going out for a short pass was his best weapon.

In 2018, Baldwin made Laird (4.3 ypc) the feature back (223 carries) but he was clearly hampered by injuries unable to bounce outside when the predictable run up the middle was stuffed. The principle backup (37 carries) was Brown (4.0 ypc) who also lacked speed to the edge. Dancy (5.8 ypc) was the back who could make things happen (something that offense desperately needed other than QB runs) but only got 14 carries (but was able to redshirt?). Again McMorris was not utilized.

In 2019, Brown (4.4 ypc) was the feature back (208 carries) but was very ineffective running predictably up the middle on first down from a standing start out of the shotgun. He is big (230 same as out tight ends, bigger than our FBs) and is a downhill runner. He is good when he has a head of steam and can make a cut. His size is only an advantage in running over DBs, which he doesn't get to do often. Last year Dancy (4.4 ypc) did not look as fast as the previous year, reportedly he was hampered by injuries but was the principle backup (57 carries). The guy that looked quick and most effective was Collins (5.2 ypc) and with 38 carries pushed Dancy for the limited backup carries. I wanted him to get a lot more carries. Now he is not on the roster. Did we ever hear where he ended up?

So far this year Dancy (4.2 ypc) again looks better than Brown (3.1 ypc) but I hope that if there is someone else with some speed and moves (Street? Brooks? Moore? Stredick?) they get a chance. We need playmakers.

I like the idea of using Brown as the H-Back, lining him up in the backfield alongside a quicker back. You then motion one of them out to the slot. You then run sweeps, reverses, screens, fake screen draw, play action..... The key is getting our best players on the field, forcing the defense to defend the whole field back attacking the edges, get the defense to worry about our run game so we can free up the WRs and take some shots down field.

It makes a lot of sense. A 2 back set with Brown as an H-back would also help us on goal to go plays.
chazzed
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If you think that Enwere is even in the same neighborhood as Brown, I'm not going to continue trying to convince you of Brown's worth.

calumnus
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chazzed said:

If you think that Enwere is even in the same neighborhood as Brown, I'm not going to continue trying to convince you of Brown's worth.




Brown 6-1 235 lbs
Enwere 6-1 235 lbs

Cal Careers to date
Brown 1,087 yds 253 att 4.3 ypc 9 TD long 54 yds
Enwere 1,411 yds 302 att 4.7 ypc 17 TD long 54 yds

I have absolutely no trouble comparing them, they are very similar, identical in size, with Enwere more productive but in a far better offense and for the record they are both great Bears. It is not denigrating Brown to compare him to Enwere.
Kaworu
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heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
I think there's truth to that, but honestly what is the best line he's had blocking for him? This offense has been subpar everywhere for as long as he's been on the team.

At least Enwere and Lasco had some talent to play with.
heartofthebear
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Kaworu said:

heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
I think there's truth to that, but honestly what is the best line he's had blocking for him? This offense has been subpar everywhere for as long as he's been on the team.

At least Enwere and Lasco had some talent to play with.
Enwere and Lasco had talent to play with on offense, with one notable exception, the OL. The OL talent has steadily improved since Wilcox got here. It was pretty bad under Dykes, but some guys, like Mekari overachieved. I don't think it is accurate to say that Brown hasn't had a good OL to run behind.

But, either way, both Dancy and Brown have played with the same roster.
calumnus
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heartofthebear said:

Kaworu said:

heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
I think there's truth to that, but honestly what is the best line he's had blocking for him? This offense has been subpar everywhere for as long as he's been on the team.

At least Enwere and Lasco had some talent to play with.
Enwere and Lasco had talent to play with on offense, with one notable exception, the OL. The OL talent has steadily improved since Wilcox got here. It was pretty bad under Dykes, but some guys, like Mekari overachieved. I don't think it is accurate to say that Brown hasn't had a good OL to run behind.

But, either way, both Dancy and Brown have played with the same roster.


In 2014 Lasco ran for 1,115 yards at 5.3 ypc scoring 12 TDS plus caught 33 passes for 356 yards and another 2 TDs.

Lasco's senior year was shortened by injury but he still averaged 5.1 ypc. Enwere ran for 505 yards at 4.8 ypc, Tre Watson ran for 494 at 5.6 ypc and Muhammad ran for 586 at 6.7 ypc. Our running backs combined for over 2,000 yards in 2015, with those 4 averaging a combined 5.5 ypc. And we were the #3 passing team in the country with Goff throwing 4,714 yards and even Chase Forrest looking good in backup. Tough to do all that with a bad offensive line.
MSaviolives
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My favorite Vic Enwere run--3rd and 36 from the Cal 6 yard line late in the game with only a 6 point lead:


Now sure one could just chalk it up the the Cougs "Couging It," but how sweet a run that was.
heartofthebear
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calumnus said:

heartofthebear said:

Kaworu said:

heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
I think there's truth to that, but honestly what is the best line he's had blocking for him? This offense has been subpar everywhere for as long as he's been on the team.

At least Enwere and Lasco had some talent to play with.
Enwere and Lasco had talent to play with on offense, with one notable exception, the OL. The OL talent has steadily improved since Wilcox got here. It was pretty bad under Dykes, but some guys, like Mekari overachieved. I don't think it is accurate to say that Brown hasn't had a good OL to run behind.

But, either way, both Dancy and Brown have played with the same roster.


In 2014 Lasco ran for 1,115 yards at 5.3 ypc scoring 12 TDS plus caught 33 passes for 356 yards and another 2 TDs.

Lasco's senior year was shortened by injury but he still averaged 5.1 ypc. Enwere ran for 505 yards at 4.8 ypc, Tre Watson ran for 494 at 5.6 ypc and Muhammad ran for 586 at 6.7 ypc. Our running backs combined for over 2,000 yards in 2015, with those 4 averaging a combined 5.5 ypc. And we were the #3 passing team in the country with Goff throwing 4,714 yards and even Chase Forrest looking good in backup. Tough to do all that with a bad offensive line.
IIRC Goff's years were incredible but it was often noted how much better he and Cal would have been had they had a better OL. 2015 was a bit of an exception.
Honestly, was there more OL talent in those years than we've had of late? There have been some injury issues
but Curhan, Craig, Saffell, Daltoso and Mettauer is about as good as it has been for the last decade or so.

Again, Dancy and Brown have played under the same conditions and Dancy is about equal statistically and has shown moves on the field that I have not seen from Brown. I am not saying Brown shouldn't be the starter. But I think Dancy should be getting more touches, that's all.

A quick check of the 2015 roster shows we had...
Steven Moore LT
Chris Borrayo LG
Jordan Rigsbee C
Dominic Granado RG
Aaron Cochran RT

I might have gotten some of the specific positions wrong but I think this was the starting 5. I admit, that's a pretty good starting 5.
heartofthebear
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MSaviolives said:

My favorite Vic Enwere run--3rd and 36 from the Cal 6 yard line late in the game with only a 6 point lead:


Now sure one could just chalk it up the the Cougs "Couging It," but how sweet a run that was.
I was there. It happened right in front of us. We couldn't believe it.
pierrezo
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heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.


I've been wondering the same thing. Brown seems slow and not too shifty. I hope he proves us doubters wrong, but Dancy has looked better to me.
killa22
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heartofthebear said:

MSaviolives said:

My favorite Vic Enwere run--3rd and 36 from the Cal 6 yard line late in the game with only a 6 point lead:


Now sure one could just chalk it up the the Cougs "Couging It," but how sweet a run that was.
I was there. It happened right in front of us. We couldn't believe it.
That's a run against a light box.

Dancy popped that run that won us UW last year from a Spread 3x1 look against a light box.

Popped another run against OSU last week from another spread 3x1 look against a light box.

Is that a consistent trend?
heartofthebear
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pierrezo said:

heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.


I've been wondering the same thing. Brown seems slow and not too shifty. I hope he proves us doubters wrong, but Dancy has looked better to me.
I reviewed some highlight tapes of each.
Brown does have some moves but he's a bit slow getting started, but so is Dancy.
They both do a good job of waiting for a hole to develope.
I think Dancy is a bit more creative when the play breaks down but Brown seems good at receiving and yac.\
The point is that Dancy is good enough to get more playing time. And I think we really need him playing more.

I remember Cal had a guy named Marcus O'Keith back in the early Tedford days. The guy had great stats, speed and hardly played. But here are the guys that were ahead of him on the depth chart:

JJ Arrington
Marshawn Lynch
Justin Forsett
GivemTheAxe
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chazzed said:

If you think that Enwere is even in the same neighborhood as Brown, I'm not going to continue trying to convince you of Brown's worth.



Agree. I really liked Enwere. He might have had a little more "punch" than Brown in short yardage situation. But Brown has a lot more speed than Enwere. And maybe slightly better "hands" as a receiver. I would clearly prefer Brown over Enwere as an everyday
RB.
That said. I would have liked to have had either Brown or Enwere in all the short yardage plays vs OSU that got stuffed at the line.
mbBear
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heartofthebear said:

calumnus said:

heartofthebear said:

Kaworu said:

heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
I think there's truth to that, but honestly what is the best line he's had blocking for him? This offense has been subpar everywhere for as long as he's been on the team.

At least Enwere and Lasco had some talent to play with.
Enwere and Lasco had talent to play with on offense, with one notable exception, the OL. The OL talent has steadily improved since Wilcox got here. It was pretty bad under Dykes, but some guys, like Mekari overachieved. I don't think it is accurate to say that Brown hasn't had a good OL to run behind.

But, either way, both Dancy and Brown have played with the same roster.


In 2014 Lasco ran for 1,115 yards at 5.3 ypc scoring 12 TDS plus caught 33 passes for 356 yards and another 2 TDs.

Lasco's senior year was shortened by injury but he still averaged 5.1 ypc. Enwere ran for 505 yards at 4.8 ypc, Tre Watson ran for 494 at 5.6 ypc and Muhammad ran for 586 at 6.7 ypc. Our running backs combined for over 2,000 yards in 2015, with those 4 averaging a combined 5.5 ypc. And we were the #3 passing team in the country with Goff throwing 4,714 yards and even Chase Forrest looking good in backup. Tough to do all that with a bad offensive line.
IIRC Goff's years were incredible but it was often noted how much better he and Cal would have been had they had a better OL. 2015 was a bit of an exception.
Honestly, was there more OL talent in those years than we've had of late? There have been some injury issues
but Curhan, Craig, Saffell, Daltoso and Mettauer is about as good as it has been for the last decade or so.

Again, Dancy and Brown have played under the same conditions and Dancy is about equal statistically and has shown moves on the field that I have not seen from Brown. I am not saying Brown shouldn't be the starter. But I think Dancy should be getting more touches, that's all.

A quick check of the 2015 roster shows we had...
Steven Moore LT
Chris Borrayo LG
Jordan Rigsbee C
Dominic Granado RG
Aaron Cochran RT

I might have gotten some of the specific positions wrong but I think this was the starting 5. I admit, that's a pretty good starting 5.
Its an okay group, we have lowered our standards. Go back through Cal football history: the good teams had a minimum of one future NFL player on the O-line, starting with 1975 co-Pac 8 championship team, and Ted Albrecht who was an All American, and a long time NFL player. '91 had 3 OL play in the NFL. 2004 had 3. 2008, 2 solid future NFLers.
In fact, if you start in 2013, and go backwards, Cal had an O-line drafted pretty much at a minimum every other year, back to the 80s...couple of spots when it took 2 years, but the point being, Cal is just now catching up to where we have been historically on the Offensive line, where a future NFLer has usually been playing....

BearlyClad
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heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
Announcer summed it up nicely: "He got more out of that one than he should have." Yet, happens all the time. The guy gets an extra 2-3 yards phenomenally out of what seems like every one of his runs.
heartofthebear
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BearlyClad said:

heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
Announcer summed it up nicely: "He got more out of that one than he should have." Yet, happens all the time. The guy gets an extra 2-3 yards phenomenally out of what seems like every one of his runs.
Thanks, you have the same eyes as me. I thought maybe I was going blind so I'm glad to hear someone is seeing the same thing. Brown can get extra yardage once he's already got some open space. But Dancy seems to come through a pile with just enough to get a first down. Again, I'm not saying Brown shouldn't be #1, but when Brown is not playing, Dancy should be getting more than 17 carried, imo, especially if he is playing well.

I remember that Forsett would take a back seat to Lynch, but, when Lynch was out, Forsett could take over a game. The same thing was true with Vereen when Best was out. I'm not saying Dancy is as good as either of those NFL guys, but we need to trust him a bit more.
chazzed
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Well, you can't simply look at the numbers in a vacuum. The offenses that Franklin and Spavital run are very different from Baldwin's. Plus, the eyeball test comes into play. Enwere brought the beast mode at times, but plenty of his runs lacked authority. Brown Jr. is more decisive when he totes the rock and, as a result, he is ordinarily tougher to bring down. Plus, Brown Jr. is a superior blocker and receiver.
calumnus
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heartofthebear said:

BearlyClad said:

heartofthebear said:

I'd like to see more of him.
He gets yards that the other backs aren't getting.
He winds through the middle.
Darts between tacklers for extra yards and dives for first downs.

The guy's not out there all that often though.
And I'm not sure why.
Announcer summed it up nicely: "He got more out of that one than he should have." Yet, happens all the time. The guy gets an extra 2-3 yards phenomenally out of what seems like every one of his runs.
Thanks, you have the same eyes as me. I thought maybe I was going blind so I'm glad to hear someone is seeing the same thing. Brown can get extra yardage once he's already got some open space. But Dancy seems to come through a pile with just enough to get a first down. Again, I'm not saying Brown shouldn't be #1, but when Brown is not playing, Dancy should be getting more than 17 carried, imo, especially if he is playing well.

I remember that Forsett would take a back seat to Lynch, but, when Lynch was out, Forsett could take over a game. The same thing was true with Vereen when Best was out. I'm not saying Dancy is as good as either of those NFL guys, but we need to trust him a bit more.


I like Brown as a downhill runner, especially late in the game when the defense is gassed. He is big and doesn't have great initial acceleration and needs to get up to speed to be effective. We ran a little pistol last year and he looked good. The worst situation we put him is delayed handoffs up the middle predictably on first down flat footed in shotgun. He'd often encounter defenders before he got any speed and then up down for little gain. He is a decent blocker and receiver and is a far better athlete than, and at 235 lbs is almost the same size as, our TEs and FBs. The best offense would be to utilize Brown and Dancy (or another speedy RB) in the same backfield, usually then motioning one out to the slot (or coming back from the slot on the fly sweep).
6956bear
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heartofthebear said:

BTW
CB has the worst stats of any 1st string back (minimum 200 career touches) we've had this century.
He is a little more productive when it comes to TDs than the rest of his stats.
But, to put in perspective, Vic Enwere was more productive and he was never a solid #1 back.
Also, Daniel Lasco was more productive.

I'm not sure why there is so much favoritism towards CB. Sure he has the body to be productive. But he isn't really.
All Cal RBs are victims of poor OL play. And frankly predictable play calling. More often than not the RB is getting first contact at the LOS (or in their own backfield). They do need some lanes to run in. Brown will run through arm tackles when given some daylight.

But he is not a make you miss sort of back. Dancy and Moore fit that bill better. What the program does not have is the home run hitter back. I think the unfortunate reality is Cal is trying to force the run game , really a power run game when they do not have the OL to play that way. Lots of long yardage situations and very poor short yardage offense due to lack of OL play.

This team needs to throw to run not the other way around. But the run game will be hampered by poor OL play and lack of big play capability.
upsetof86
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As a reminder Brown is/was preseason 2nd team all p12 alongside Jermar Jefferson. I think he moves the pile like no other Cal back on the roster when he gets beyond first level. He catches well and gets yac (see above). But I think he's been dinged up since at min UCLA. There was a tv shot of the players jogging in at half time of that first game and I noticed a slight hitch in Browns step. I liked both Dancy and Moore last Saturday and I can see them both get more playing time.
chazzed
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When your QB takes a hit to pitch you the ball and get you an important first down, wrap up the ball with two hands, Dancy.

He should not be a featured back in a power 5 conference.
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