have I missed any reference to Foreman? He did not play against ASU. or, did I misread the boxscore?

He played. Made a three. Missed a lot.i think Fox started Brown and Hyder for defense. We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401265394

18 minutes, 1-6 from the field. He was on the floor when we made our run at the end of the first half.

Not too much from Foreman or, especially, Betley lately. Opposing teams probably know to guard them beyond the arc now.

I wish we had one good PG instead of three mediocre ones.

Here's Foreman's stat-line from last night:

18 Mins, 3 Pts (1-6 FG, 1-6 3FG), 3 Rebs, 1 TO

Not a great game for any of the seniors/grad transfers.

Anticevich, Foreman, and Betley combined for 58 minutes, 13 points (3-of-15 from three), 7 rebounds, 4 assists, and 3 turnovers. I was particularly disappointed Anticevich was the only one to shoot free-throws (2-of-2) out of all three.

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

Civil Bear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

---

You mean other than taking back the lead at halftime.

---

I saw the game. I know we took the lead by one. If we were not down double digits it is quite possible that our serge would have allowed a substantial lead .with a substantial
Lead we might have won the game. Just a thought.

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

Big C said:

---

18 minutes, 1-6 from the field. He was on the floor when we made our run at the end of the first half.

Not too much from Foreman or, especially, Betley lately. Opposing teams probably know to guard them beyond the arc now.

I wish we had one good PG instead of three mediocre ones.

---

I'm glad we have Betley and Foreman but I never expected them to be power conference players. IMHO the only grad transfer who really helped us was Grant Mullins.

Betley/Foreman are shooting less than 20% from three the last three games.
And most of the Foreman misses are WAY off.

oskidunker said:

---

He played. Made a three. Missed a lot.i think Fox started Brown and Hyder for defense. We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401265394

---

I'm not sure what you were seeing in this game. From the play by play description, Cal fell behind 12 points with 10 minutes to go in the half, and fought back to take the lead by 1 at the half, including missing a three and a layup in the last minute, and despite having only TWO free throw attempts in the entire half. I think Cal recovered quite nicely.

In the second half, Cal got down quickly by 7 points with 15 minutes to go in the game, but quickly recovered again to take the lead by 2 with 11 minutes to go. With 7 minutes to go, Cal was still up by 2. ASU then gradually pulled ahead, and was up by 7 with 1:40 to go, and Cal was toast. Cal was never down more than 7 points in the 2nd half.

I will watch the video recording tomorrow. I am encouraged about what was said here about Celestine. Looking at the box score, he fouled out in only 17 minutes, which sounds like the freshmen Kelly and Thorpe. I want to see his playmaking, shooting, and skills. All I heard about him as a recruit was that he was a good shot.

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

He played. Made a three. Missed a lot.i think Fox started Brown and Hyder for defense. We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401265394

---

I'm not sure what you were seeing in this game. From the play by play description, Cal fell behind 12 points with 10 minutes to go in the half, and fought back to take the lead by 1 at the half, including missing a three and a layup in the last minute, and despite having only TWO free throw attempts in the entire half. I think Cal recovered quite nicely.

In the second half, Cal got down quickly by 7 points with 15 minutes to go in the game, but quickly recovered again to take the lead by 2 with 11 minutes to go. With 7 minutes to go, Cal was still up by 2. ASU then gradually pulled ahead, and was up by 7 with 1:40 to go, and Cal was toast. Cal was never down more than 7 points in the 2nd half.

I will watch the video recording tomorrow. I am encouraged about what was said here about Celestine. Looking at the box score, he fouled out in only 17 minutes, which sounds like the freshmen Kelly and Thorpe. I want to see his playmaking, shooting, and skills. All I heard about him as a recruit was that he was a good shot.

---

Celistine had a couple of nifty assists, set some screens, and hit an open three. His impact is minimal as he is clearly not forcing things at this stage, but he is showing glimpses of things to come. It is also clear that he has taken over the rotation spot from Bowzer who was showing more athleticism and raw potential earlier in the season.

SFCityBear said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

He played. Made a three. Missed a lot.i think Fox started Brown and Hyder for defense. We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401265394

---

I'm not sure what you were seeing in this game. From the play by play description, Cal fell behind 12 points with 10 minutes to go in the half, and fought back to take the lead by 1 at the half, including missing a three and a layup in the last minute, and despite having only TWO free throw attempts in the entire half. I think Cal recovered quite nicely.

In the second half, Cal got down quickly by 7 points with 15 minutes to go in the game, but quickly recovered again to take the lead by 2 with 11 minutes to go. With 7 minutes to go, Cal was still up by 2. ASU then gradually pulled ahead, and was up by 7 with 1:40 to go, and Cal was toast. Cal was never down more than 7 points in the 2nd half.

I will watch the video recording tomorrow. I am encouraged about what was said here about Celestine. Looking at the box score, he fouled out in only 17 minutes, which sounds like the freshmen Kelly and Thorpe. I want to see his playmaking, shooting, and skills. All I heard about him as a recruit was that he was a good shot.

---

Celestine was guarding Remy a lot and Remy was hunting for fouls

Don't know why the refs reward this but the last foul on jalen was ridiculous

Take a look and see if you agree

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

---

now we know who to blame for Cal's loss

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

---

Good info! Nevertheless, there is a pool of referees who do most of the conference games.

I have been attending the vast majority of Cal home games for a few decades, pretty much with the same group of buddies. There must be 25-30 games, maybe more, in which one of us has exclaimed, "I know we've said this before, but that has got to be the WORST REFEREED game I've ever seen!" (with nods and agreement all around)

Big C said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

---

Good info! Nevertheless, there is a pool of referees who do most of the conference games.

I have been attending the vast majority of Cal home games for a few decades, pretty much with the same group. There must be 25-30 games, maybe more, in which one of us has exclaimed, "I know we've said this before, but that has got to be the WORST REFEREED game I've ever seen!" (with nods and agreement all around)

---

I think Nathan should have used mis-characterization vs misinformation as this has always been the case. But is does re-inforce the issue that the ref pool struggles with the difference in styles between the P12 and the WCC, WAC, MWC & GW conferences. I'm sure the other regions have similar situations and would be interesting in comparing the pools. I could imagine that a ref pool that covers Big East, ACC & SEC might have different tendencies.

However, the disparity (regional differences) IMHO has become much less than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

BeachedBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

---

Good info! Nevertheless, there is a pool of referees who do most of the conference games.

I have been attending the vast majority of Cal home games for a few decades, pretty much with the same group. There must be 25-30 games, maybe more, in which one of us has exclaimed, "I know we've said this before, but that has got to be the WORST REFEREED game I've ever seen!" (with nods and agreement all around)

---

I think Nathan should have used mis-characterization vs misinformation as this has always been the case. But is does re-inforce the issue that the ref pool struggles with the difference in styles between the P12 and the WCC, WAC, MWC & GW conferences. I'm sure the other regions have similar situations and would be interesting in comparing the pools. I could imagine that a ref pool that covers Big East, ACC & SEC might have different tendencies.

However, the disparity (regional differences) IMHO has become much less than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

---

I watched a Mizzou/Auburn game this past week that had 71 foul shots. Auburn's Sharife Cooper shot 21 FT attempts himself. This is not just a Pac-12/western region issue. College officiating across the country can be unbearable at times.

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

---

Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

---

This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

---

Good info! Nevertheless, there is a pool of referees who do most of the conference games.

I have been attending the vast majority of Cal home games for a few decades, pretty much with the same group. There must be 25-30 games, maybe more, in which one of us has exclaimed, "I know we've said this before, but that has got to be the WORST REFEREED game I've ever seen!" (with nods and agreement all around)

---

I think Nathan should have used mis-characterization vs misinformation as this has always been the case. But is does re-inforce the issue that the ref pool struggles with the difference in styles between the P12 and the WCC, WAC, MWC & GW conferences. I'm sure the other regions have similar situations and would be interesting in comparing the pools. I could imagine that a ref pool that covers Big East, ACC & SEC might have different tendencies.

However, the disparity (regional differences) IMHO has become much less than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

---

I watched a Mizzou/Auburn game this past week that had 71 foul shots. Auburn's Sharife Cooper shot 21 FT attempts himself. This is not just a Pac-12/western region issue. College officiating across the country can be unbearable at times.

---

I watched part of that Mizz/Aub game too and quite frankly, from what I saw, the best chance you had to stop Cooper was to foul him and hope the ref didn't call it....the kid was lights out good....

bearmanpg said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Big C said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

93Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

BeachedBear said:

---

Civil Bear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

ASU fouls a lot and sends teams to the line a lot.

Here's a look at free-throw attempts Pac-12 opponents have had against ASU this year:

Cal - 17 attempts
UCLA - 24 attempts
USC - 32 attempts
Oregon State - 27 attempts
Arizona - 29 attempts
Arizona - 43 attempts
Cal - 18 attempts

---

That said, the refs were really letting them play last night.

---

I've noticed that more and more this season. I really like it - the game flows better. I'm guessing this is because there aren't any fans in the stands like me constantly cursing and berating them.

---

We must be watching different games. I feel like I've watched so many games where teams are shooting 30 or 40 free throws a game. That's just criminal. I love college hoops and try to watch games every day during the season, but I can't handle games that get into the 25+ free-throw attempt range. No flow or continuity whatsoever.

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Nathan, I'm not sure how long you've been following Pac 12 basketball but for as long as I can remember (30+ years) Pac 12 refs have been calling way more ticky tack fouls than refs in any other conference. The disparity was so great that Big East basketball looked like a completely different sport and Pac 12 teams usually looked confused during the NCAA tournament by the lack of calls.

This year there does seem to be more flow and fewer ticky tack fouls compared to other years but that's just a personal observation.

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This is probably one of the most common pieces of misinformation among college hoops fans. There is no such thing as "Pac-12 refs" in college hoops. While there are refs that will do more Pac-12 games, it's generally based on regions because refs are getting to games in different cities usually three to four times a week. Conferences do not employ college basketball refs. I wish they did so there could be more accountability and review.

For example, in Cal's last game in Tempe, the refs were Deron White, Deldre Carr, and Jim Schipper.

So far this season, White has reffed games in the Pac-12, MWC, and WCC. He's done two Cal games, both were against ASU. Carr has also done Pac-12, MWC, and WCC games this year and reffed in the Cal game against Utah (in addition to the latest ASU game). Schipper has done games in the Pac-12, MWC, WCC, and MAC in the Midwest. In addition to the last Cal game, he reffed the Cal game in Eugene earlier this year.

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Good info! Nevertheless, there is a pool of referees who do most of the conference games.

I have been attending the vast majority of Cal home games for a few decades, pretty much with the same group. There must be 25-30 games, maybe more, in which one of us has exclaimed, "I know we've said this before, but that has got to be the WORST REFEREED game I've ever seen!" (with nods and agreement all around)

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I think Nathan should have used mis-characterization vs misinformation as this has always been the case. But is does re-inforce the issue that the ref pool struggles with the difference in styles between the P12 and the WCC, WAC, MWC & GW conferences. I'm sure the other regions have similar situations and would be interesting in comparing the pools. I could imagine that a ref pool that covers Big East, ACC & SEC might have different tendencies.

However, the disparity (regional differences) IMHO has become much less than it was 10 or 20 years ago.

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I watched a Mizzou/Auburn game this past week that had 71 foul shots. Auburn's Sharife Cooper shot 21 FT attempts himself. This is not just a Pac-12/western region issue. College officiating across the country can be unbearable at times.

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I watched part of that Mizz/Aub game too and quite frankly, from what I saw, the best chance you had to stop Cooper was to foul him and hope the ref didn't call it....the kid was lights out good....

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He's definitely SEC POY material, especially if he didn't have eligibility issues. But 71 foul shots in a 40-minute game?! There were a ton of ticky-tacky calls going both ways, IMO.

HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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He played. Made a three. Missed a lot.i think Fox started Brown and Hyder for defense. We promptly went down by double digits and never really recovered.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401265394

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I'm not sure what you were seeing in this game. From the play by play description, Cal fell behind 12 points with 10 minutes to go in the half, and fought back to take the lead by 1 at the half, including missing a three and a layup in the last minute, and despite having only TWO free throw attempts in the entire half. I think Cal recovered quite nicely.

In the second half, Cal got down quickly by 7 points with 15 minutes to go in the game, but quickly recovered again to take the lead by 2 with 11 minutes to go. With 7 minutes to go, Cal was still up by 2. ASU then gradually pulled ahead, and was up by 7 with 1:40 to go, and Cal was toast. Cal was never down more than 7 points in the 2nd half.

I will watch the video recording tomorrow. I am encouraged about what was said here about Celestine. Looking at the box score, he fouled out in only 17 minutes, which sounds like the freshmen Kelly and Thorpe. I want to see his playmaking, shooting, and skills. All I heard about him as a recruit was that he was a good shot.

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Celestine was guarding Remy a lot and Remy was hunting for fouls

Don't know why the refs reward this but the last foul on jalen was ridiculous

Take a look and see if you agree

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I agree. And at least one of the other fouls where he ran into a player he did not see, could have been avoided if there had been better communication, like a teammate calling out a screen.

Big C said:

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18 minutes, 1-6 from the field. He was on the floor when we made our run at the end of the first half.

Not too much from Foreman or, especially, Betley lately. Opposing teams probably know to guard them beyond the arc now.

I wish we had one good PG instead of three mediocre ones.

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Who is the third point guard? I thought Brown and Hyder were the only two. I haven't seen every game, but Foreman seems to be playing the shooting guard ( and not shooting it well, lately).

Maybe Fox could try Celestine at the point. He seems to pass better than all three guards I mentioned above. Better instincts, better looking passes. If he has any kind of mid-range game, let's give hm a shot.

Hyder and Brown have poor shot selection. They both make up their minds to take it to the rim, but can't seem to foresee a double-team. Brown needs to learn that while he has great speed, he can't beat two or three defenders to the basket, if they are well positioned. He need to learn floaters, pull-ups and fall back jump shots, instead of taking it to the rim every time, getting doubled and losing the ball.

SFCityBear said:

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Big C said:

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18 minutes, 1-6 from the field. He was on the floor when we made our run at the end of the first half.

Not too much from Foreman or, especially, Betley lately. Opposing teams probably know to guard them beyond the arc now.

I wish we had one good PG instead of three mediocre ones.

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Who is the third point guard? I thought Brown and Hyder were the only two. I haven't seen every game, but Foreman seems to be playing the shooting guard ( and not shooting it well, lately).

Maybe Fox could try Celestine at the point. He seems to pass better than all three guards I mentioned above. Better instincts, better looking passes. If he has any kind of mid-range game, let's give hm a shot.

Hyder and Brown have poor shot selection. They both make up their minds to take it to the rim, but can't seem to foresee a double-team. Brown needs to learn that while he has great speed, he can't beat two or three defenders to the basket, if they are well positioned. He need to learn floaters, pull-ups and fall back jump shots, instead of taking it to the rim every time, getting doubled and losing the ball.

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Forman is third PG. trading shooting for defense.

On your 2nd point about Hyder and Brown driving. I commented earlier that Brown plays at one speed. Some can play at speed like Colorado's McKinley, but most can't.

PGs should watch Remy and Akinjo who are both incredibly shifty, constantly use hesitation moves to keep defenders off balance and to probe the defense. You never know if they are going to drive to the basket, drive and pass, shoot, or just pull the ball out. They are constantly changing speed and changing direction. Hesi and dribble backs are some of the most important PG skills in my opinion