3 unforced turnovers by two PGs is a problem

NathanAllen said:

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Bradley single-handedly keeping the Bears in this. Just need someone else to step up and pitch in a bit.

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No one wants to shoot except Betley and he cant make-one.

The Pyramid of Success coach may have been unmatched, but he trash talked players on the opposing team as they ran by him during the game.

Bradley playing point!

Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

Ever since that article about Grant he has played poorly. We can't win if he plays like this. Unfortunately, Betley and Foreman are just not PAC 12 level players. Neither is Hyder at the moment. Not sure he will get there. I hope Fox plays KK and Celestine more to build for next year.

Cal players are catch and shoot only, but they are now also missing those

If we can't make 3s, it is the Bradley and Kelly show

And that's not enough

Foreman and Bradley can create . Grant once in a while

HoopDreams said:

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3 unforced turnovers by two PGs is a problem

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It really is. We can't play sloppy basketball and beat stanfurd.

HoopDreams said:

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Cal players are catch and shoot only, but they are now also missing those

If we can't make 3s, it is the Bradley and Kelly show

And that's not enough

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Kudos to Fox for letting Bradley and Kelly play until they foul out. I hate it when coaches sit their best players for fear of them fouling out.

Still don't see why Betley is starting and getting so many minutes.

Bear8995 said:

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Ever since that article about Grant he has played poorly. We can't win if he plays like this. Unfortunately, Betley and Foreman are just not PAC 12 level players. Neither is Hyder at the moment. Not sure he will get there. I hope Fox plays KK and Celestine more to build for next year.

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Grant was on fire for UCLA and SC. Something happened in AZ and he's in a funk.

calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Cal players are catch and shoot only, but they are now also missing those

If we can't make 3s, it is the Bradley and Kelly show

And that's not enough

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Kudos to Fox for letting Bradley and Kelly play until they foul out. I hate it when coaches sit their best players for fear of them fouling out.

Still don't see why Betley is starting and getting so many minutes.

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I'd agree on Betley. He has seemingly been in a slump ever since the conference started. Betley and Foreman still lead the conference in made threes, but neither one can hit their hat now. Some of their three point attempts are real bricks, airballs even. And Foreman has been getting overwhelmed in conference. He is playing against taller, stronger, faster guards in conference, and his minutes have gone down accordingly. Our threes now come from Bradley and some from Anticevich when he has a good night. From what I've seen of Celestine, I'd sure like to see him on the floor in place of Betley or Foreman. Sample size of his threes is very small, but he does other things, like finishing at the basket, passing, and defending. I thought he had a very good game tonight in just a few minutes. I think I saw him score twice, and he stripped Da Silva of the ball on a drive to a sure bucket. Cal had no answer for Da Silva tonight, nobody who could stop him or slow him down. He is a very fine college player. I don't know if he can make the NBA. He will need to shoot the three. I don't remember if he made one, or even attempted one tonight.

DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Knowlton spent $3 million to make that change and it would cost even more to move on from Fox. Bradley and Kelly have one more year. The year after, Fox's 4th, looks really scary right now.

NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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I really love Celestine's game. He doesn't look like a Freshman.

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I LOVE the lineup of Brown, Bradley, Celestine, Anticevich, Kelly.

That's the most positionless lineup Cal might have. You've got four guys that can knock down the outside shot and a lot of athleticism.

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100%. That's the lineup I've been calling for for a couple weeks.

calumnus said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Knowlton spent $3 million to make that change and it would cost even more to move on from Fox. Bradley and Kelly have one more year. The year after, Fox's 4th, looks really scary right now.

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If anybody wants to get rid of Fox after this season, it would help if they can pay his next year's salary and the last year of Wyking Jones' salary. That's a little beyond my means, so I'm hoping we somehow just get better next season with our existing returnees and a few semi-decent recruits.

SFCityBear said:

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calumnus said:

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HoopDreams said:

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Cal players are catch and shoot only, but they are now also missing those

If we can't make 3s, it is the Bradley and Kelly show

And that's not enough

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Kudos to Fox for letting Bradley and Kelly play until they foul out. I hate it when coaches sit their best players for fear of them fouling out.

Still don't see why Betley is starting and getting so many minutes.

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I'd agree on Betley. He has seemingly been in a slump ever since the conference started. Betley and Foreman still lead the conference in made threes, but neither one can hit their hat now. Some of their three point attempts are real bricks, airballs even. And Foreman has been getting overwhelmed in conference. He is playing against taller, stronger, faster guards in conference, and his minutes have gone down accordingly. Our threes now come from Bradley and some from Anticevich when he has a good night. From what I've seen of Celestine, I'd sure like to see him on the floor in place of Betley or Foreman. Sample size of his threes is very small, but he does other things, like finishing at the basket, passing, and defending. I thought he had a very good game tonight in just a few minutes. I think I saw him score twice, and he stripped Da Silva of the ball on a drive to a sure bucket. Cal had no answer for Da Silva tonight, nobody who could stop him or slow him down. He is a very fine college player. I don't know if he can make the NBA. He will need to shoot the three. I don't remember if he made one, or even attempted one tonight.

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Yeah, at some point you just have to give the minutes to freshmen and sophomores. In college sports, you never want to sacrifice current wins to build for the future, but the grad transfers aren't contributing to any wins lately. I mean, I love the guys as Golden Bears and I wish they were producing more, but...

I want to see how Cal does next season with a healthy Bradley and more experience for Celestine, Kelly and Brown. It's important that we have some athletic and skilled recruits coming in. I get tired of people bashing Fox. He is a good coach and nobody could win with this team. It was amazing that they came close against UCLA, USC, and Arizona State. I am really tired of watching GA play. He is so slow and unathletic on offense and defense though he does try to make the intelligent play each time. Hyder was probably a bad choice by Fox but we definitely needed some help at the point guard position.. Hyder plays mediocre defense and can't shoot to save a lick. On the bright side, watching Bradley, Kelly, and Celestine gives me hope for next year.

Bummer of a game. I think it was winnable for Cal, but Cal did not play well tonight. Cal doesn't have to play perfectly to win this game, but the Bears do have to play well. Poor shooting and sloppy turnovers doomed the Bears tonight. I haven't seen the stats, but it seemed like normal shooting percentages would have amply bridged the deficit.

Several recurring points this game highlighted:
a. Those who have been saying Matt Bradley needs to learn how to pass saw tonight that he is in fact a willing and deft passer. I recall one poor pass (turnover in the lane in H2) and about six terrific shot-creating passes (that touch pass was gorgeous). He's a special, special player.
b. Hyder. I'm not totally ready to give up on him. He's had a tough integration to this team/season. But boy...
c. I am dying to see Celestine get a real shot at being the main 2. Idk if Fox feels some additional obligation towards grad transfers over freshmen, or maybe JC is missing some things Fox wants him to be doing. I defer to Fox on that. But boy ...

I was hoping Cal would split these two games vs furd, but I figured gym familiarity was more likely to tilt this first one Cal's way. Will be a tougher challenge at furd on Sunday.

Our point guards tonight were 2-11 for 4 points with 3 assists and 7 turnovers. Man do we miss Paris Austin. I hope Fox has a PG lined up for next year. His job may depend on it.

tthompson993 said:

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I want to see how Cal does next season with a healthy Bradley and more experience for Celestine, Kelly and Brown. It's important that we have some athletic and skilled recruits coming in. I get tired of people bashing Fox. He is a good coach and nobody could win with this team. It was amazing that they came close against UCLA, USC, and Arizona State. I am really tired of watching GA play. He is so slow and unathletic on offense and defense though he does try to make the intelligent play each time. Hyder was probably a bad choice by Fox but we definitely needed some help at the point guard position.. Hyder plays mediocre defense and can't shoot to save a lick. On the bright side, watching Bradley, Kelly, and Celestine gives me hope for next year.

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Over a span of 60 days, ASU beat Cal by 8, beat Grand Canyon by 1, beat Cal by 4 and lost all 7 of its other games. You really think that loss is amazing?

OaktownBear said:

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tthompson993 said:

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I want to see how Cal does next season with a healthy Bradley and more experience for Celestine, Kelly and Brown. It's important that we have some athletic and skilled recruits coming in. I get tired of people bashing Fox. He is a good coach and nobody could win with this team. It was amazing that they came close against UCLA, USC, and Arizona State. I am really tired of watching GA play. He is so slow and unathletic on offense and defense though he does try to make the intelligent play each time. Hyder was probably a bad choice by Fox but we definitely needed some help at the point guard position.. Hyder plays mediocre defense and can't shoot to save a lick. On the bright side, watching Bradley, Kelly, and Celestine gives me hope for next year.

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Over a span of 60 days, ASU beat Cal by 8, beat Grand Canyon by 1, beat Cal by 4 and lost all 7 of its other games. You really think that loss is amazing?

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remy martin didn't play in most of those games (besides the Cal game)

DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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No coach can be successful with the scarcity of talent on this team. Nobody but Bradley would be a starter for any other Pac-12 team.

DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

HoopDreams said:

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OaktownBear said:

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tthompson993 said:

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I want to see how Cal does next season with a healthy Bradley and more experience for Celestine, Kelly and Brown. It's important that we have some athletic and skilled recruits coming in. I get tired of people bashing Fox. He is a good coach and nobody could win with this team. It was amazing that they came close against UCLA, USC, and Arizona State. I am really tired of watching GA play. He is so slow and unathletic on offense and defense though he does try to make the intelligent play each time. Hyder was probably a bad choice by Fox but we definitely needed some help at the point guard position.. Hyder plays mediocre defense and can't shoot to save a lick. On the bright side, watching Bradley, Kelly, and Celestine gives me hope for next year.

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Over a span of 60 days, ASU beat Cal by 8, beat Grand Canyon by 1, beat Cal by 4 and lost all 7 of its other games. You really think that loss is amazing?

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remy martin didn't play in most of those games (besides the Cal game)

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Sigh

SFCityBear said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

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Sigh

OaktownBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

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Sigh

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It doesn't matter the coach or sport, some fans will never stop making excuses for coaches.

SFBear92 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

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Sigh

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It doesn't matter the coach or sport, some fans will never stop making excuses for coaches.

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Next year we will get to #9 in the PAC-12 and extend Fox "for recruiting" the year after we will drop down to #12 again because of "youth"....Fox will be here 6 or 7 years "he needs a chance with his guys" and be paid about $10 million, $13 million with his buyout.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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SFBear92 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

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Sigh

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It doesn't matter the coach or sport, some fans will never stop making excuses for coaches.

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And some fans will always be quick to blame the coach when the true fact is the team they're watching just doesn't have the talent that their competition has. Lets just hire a new coach every year until one produces a winning record in his first season.

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The reason the team has no talent is because the coach can't recruit. Once again, another excuse.

93Bear said:

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Our point guards tonight were 2-11 for 4 points with 3 assists and 7 turnovers. Man do we miss Paris Austin. I hope Fox has a PG lined up for next year. His job may depend on it.

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He has Joel Brown, who has improved a lot, and I think has more growth in him. I think he was hoping for Hyder, but Hyder is better off the ball. None of the recruits are points. A grad transfer would be nice. Foreman is the size of a point but better off the ball. Austin was key last year, and I think people who thought the team would improve (I did not) failed to realize his impact.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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SFBear92 said:

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OaktownBear said:

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SFCityBear said:

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DavisBear said:

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Turnover fest, Bears can't make a shot. Time to pull the plug on the Fox era! Program is going nowhere with Fox in charge. Let's just admit it was a bad hire and move on

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Fox has had just ONE full season to recruit. He has had all the players healthy and ready to play for only THREE games by my count. Fox can't dribble the ball, handle the ball or shoot the ball for his players. He can't play defense for them, nor can he grab any rebounds for them. So other than the old cliche that "The buck stops with the the man in charge", do you have a reasonable or rational reason for dumping the coach in less than TWO seasons?

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Sigh

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It doesn't matter the coach or sport, some fans will never stop making excuses for coaches.

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And some fans will always be quick to blame the coach when the true fact is the team they're watching just doesn't have the talent that their competition has. Lets just hire a new coach every year until one produces a winning record in his first season.

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Can I ask a technical question about the board? I didn't know we had access to old posts from the Cyberbears football board circa 2000. It would be interesting to look at. I would have thought it would be easier to write a new post rather than sift through the thousands of pro Holmoe posts for just the right language, but you do you.

Or did you just go back to Wyking Jones. Or sonny Dykes. Or did you pull up letters to the editor about Keith Gilbertson? Joe Kapp? Or was it Dick Kuchen? Roger Theder? That takes me to the beginning of my Cal era. Maybe someone older can provide more sources.

How about not last place in their second year? Can we ask for that. Cuz there are a lot of bad teams out there. Basically last place isn't just talent. You have to do more than that. Cal does not have the talent to compete with the top of the conference. They do have the talent to get off the bottom of a stack of 4 of the worst teams in any power conference. Our team is not young. That is not an excuse.

I know not last is an unreasonable expectation for you. I'm sorry to be so strict.

Let me tell you that you may not like what I'm saying but it is a lot healthier than pronouncements that we are going to get up for Stanford cuz, well cuz nothing but I want it to be true. Or player X is going to magically get better. Or a transfer is waiting in the wings to solve our PG problems.. oh that didn't work? Well we have this high school guy who as the 33rd ranked SG is going to come in as a true frosh and with a few weeks development become our starting point guard by conference. Honestly, Qanon sites have less fanciful theories than this place.

Please tell me. At what point will it be appropriate to complain. Because I have seen guys like you. It will NEVER be appropriate to complain.

SFBear92 said:

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The reason the team has no talent is because the coach can't recruit. Once again, another excuse.

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IMHO through 2 years he has driven off more talent than he has brought in. The class coming in this fall looks promising but I'll have to see them play and develop. Also I don't see a center.

I think Fox is a competent coach, far better than Jones, but not close to Montgomery's level. I wouldn't expect a competent coach with a less than stellar roster to get us regular NCAA Tournament appearances.

stu said:

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SFBear92 said:

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The reason the team has no talent is because the coach can't recruit. Once again, another excuse.

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IMHO through 2 years he has driven off more talent than he has brought in. The class coming in this fall looks promising but I'll have to see them play and develop. Also I don't see a center.

I think Fox is a competent coach, far better than Jones, but not close to Montgomery's level. I wouldn't expect a competent coach with a less than stellar roster to get us regular NCAA Tournament appearances.

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If you think this new class will materially change the team, go see their highlights on youtube. I like Alajiki, but the other two will need to grow into roles, although they are athletic enough. I realize there is more projection than most years with the shutdown.