Memories of Ben Braun

3,504 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by SFCityBear
Bearprof
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Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
NathanAllen
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Staff
Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
Yes. Someone besides Bradley has got to attack downhill. Foreman, Brown, Hyder, anyone.
sluggo
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Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
No, I have been reminded of Ben Braun every game Fox has coached. The other team always gets easier shots.
BeachedBear
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NathanAllen said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
Yes. Someone besides Bradley has got to attack downhill. Foreman, Brown, Hyder, anyone.
And all three of those guys look pretty good at it!!
NathanAllen
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BeachedBear said:

NathanAllen said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
Yes. Someone besides Bradley has got to attack downhill. Foreman, Brown, Hyder, anyone.
And all three of those guys look pretty good at it!!
Is this sarcasm? Last night, the trio of Foreman, Brown, and Hyder combined for 2-of-6 shooting from two, three assists, seven turnovers, and one free-throw attempt, which Brown missed in a combined 52 minutes. That's not what I'd call successful downhill attacking.
stu
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Quote:

That's not what I'd call successful downhill attacking.
Successful downhill sliding?
NathanAllen
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stu said:

Quote:

That's not what I'd call successful downhill attacking.
Successful downhill sliding?
I do recall Hyder sliding out of bounds during one of his downhill runs at the hoop.
calumnus
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sluggo said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
No, I have been reminded of Ben Braun every game Fox has coached. The other team always gets easier shots.


We rank in the 300s in pace of play, just like Fox's teams at Georgia. Braun's teams were similar. On defense it is deny any shot until the defense breaks down and they get an easy shot and on offense it is pass it around to burn clock then let get it to your best player to play hero ball as the shot clock expires. Helped get guys like Gray, Lampley, Shipp, Powe and for Fox, KCP, and now Bradley score lots of points on underachieving teams. Not really fun basketball to watch or play in either. However, it is better at keeping the games "competitive" and minimizing the margin of losses with an occasional upset. Wyking Jones tried to push pace which is disastrous with an inferior team. So slow is better than that. The problem with playing slow ugly ball is players who have NBA aspirations will avoid you. You plateau at meh. Braun would annually announce we were going to push pace and probably told recruits that, but eventually coaches who play this way are known for playing this way and the "we are going to play fast" pronouncements are taken with a lot of skepticism.
MSaviolives
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It is surprising that the offense didn't work better under Braun, given that he was a noted expert on ball screening.



As far as his pass the ball around the horn for 29 seconds, with a Hail Mary shot at the end, offense, that certainly happened, particularly when Ayinde Ubaka was the point guard. But I thought he actually did do a pretty good job designing plays to get the ball into the post for Lampley, Powe and those guys. But never was it a fast offense.
SFCityBear
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MSaviolives said:

It is surprising that the offense didn't work better under Braun, given that he was a noted expert on ball screening.



As far as his pass the ball around the horn for 29 seconds, with a Hail Mary shot at the end, offense, that certainly happened, particularly when Ayinde Ubaka was the point guard. But I thought he actually did do a pretty good job designing plays to get the ball into the post for Lampley, Powe and those guys. But never was it a fast offense.

I remember Ubaka a dribbling around the perimeter in his early years, and I'm starting to see Cal doing it a lot now also.
SFCityBear
sluggo
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MSaviolives said:

It is surprising that the offense didn't work better under Braun, given that he was a noted expert on ball screening.



As far as his pass the ball around the horn for 29 seconds, with a Hail Mary shot at the end, offense, that certainly happened, particularly when Ayinde Ubaka was the point guard. But I thought he actually did do a pretty good job designing plays to get the ball into the post for Lampley, Powe and those guys. But never was it a fast offense.

Yes, this was a joke among those around because Cal did nothing off the ball, just like Fox's team do nothing off the ball. Sigh.
BearlyCareAnymore
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calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
No, I have been reminded of Ben Braun every game Fox has coached. The other team always gets easier shots.


We rank in the 300s in pace of play, just like Fox's teams at Georgia. Braun's teams were similar. On defense it is deny any shot until the defense breaks down and they get an easy shot and on offense it is pass it around to burn clock then let get it to your best player to play hero ball as the shot clock expires. Helped get guys like Gray, Lampley, Shipp, Powe and for Fox, KCP, and now Bradley score lots of points on underachieving teams. Not really fun basketball to watch or play in either. However, it is better at keeping the games "competitive" and minimizing the margin of losses with an occasional upset. Wyking Jones tried to push pace which is disastrous with an inferior team. So slow is better than that. The problem with playing slow ugly ball is players who have NBA aspirations will avoid you. You plateau at meh. Braun would annually announce we were going to push pace and probably told recruits that, but eventually coaches who play this way are known for playing this way and the "we are going to play fast" pronouncements are taken with a lot of skepticism.
Honestly, I don't think your examples are good ones. Lampley was by far the best scoring option on a young team. Gray and Powe scored a lot of points on teams that were otherwise very offensively challenged and Gray was an incredible scorer. Shipp actually played within a good offense with Wethers and Tamir, at least when those three and Midgley were on the floor together (given that absolutely no one else on that team could score a lick).

I'm not defending Braun's offense, which was bad. But those are not the years I would have changed things.

Also, for as much some here claim Braun was a great recruiter/poor coach, the great recruiter part I will never understand, for most of the years he had a defective roster where he could rarely put 5 on the floor that were even competent scorers. His offense was equally challenged by the fact that he rarely recruited enough weapons. A lot of the times he took the air out of the ball it was because he had 0-2 scorers on the floor and sat on it and played defense while the 1 or 2 other scorers were resting on the bench.
Civil Bear
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OaktownBear said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
No, I have been reminded of Ben Braun every game Fox has coached. The other team always gets easier shots.


We rank in the 300s in pace of play, just like Fox's teams at Georgia. Braun's teams were similar. On defense it is deny any shot until the defense breaks down and they get an easy shot and on offense it is pass it around to burn clock then let get it to your best player to play hero ball as the shot clock expires. Helped get guys like Gray, Lampley, Shipp, Powe and for Fox, KCP, and now Bradley score lots of points on underachieving teams. Not really fun basketball to watch or play in either. However, it is better at keeping the games "competitive" and minimizing the margin of losses with an occasional upset. Wyking Jones tried to push pace which is disastrous with an inferior team. So slow is better than that. The problem with playing slow ugly ball is players who have NBA aspirations will avoid you. You plateau at meh. Braun would annually announce we were going to push pace and probably told recruits that, but eventually coaches who play this way are known for playing this way and the "we are going to play fast" pronouncements are taken with a lot of skepticism.
Honestly, I don't think your examples are good ones. Lampley was by far the best scoring option on a young team. Gray and Powe scored a lot of points on teams that were otherwise very offensively challenged and Gray was an incredible scorer. Shipp actually played within a good offense with Wethers and Tamir, at least when those three and Midgley were on the floor together (given that absolutely no one else on that team could score a lick).

I'm not defending Braun's offense, which was bad. But those are not the years I would have changed things.

Also, for as much some here claim Braun was a great recruiter/poor coach, the great recruiter part I will never understand, for most of the years he had a defective roster where he could rarely put 5 on the floor that were even competent scorers. His offense was equally challenged by the fact that he rarely recruited enough weapons. A lot of the times he took the air out of the ball it was because he had 0-2 scorers on the floor and sat on it and played defense while the 1 or 2 other scorers were resting on the bench.
Pretty much this. People tend to remember the years of a young backcourt trying to work the ball into Lampley and Powe, but forget the years the teams had enough talent to get to the postseason. I also agree that recruiting always seemed to have too many misses, bad fits, and injuries that kept the Bears from being a complete team.
calumnus
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OaktownBear said:

calumnus said:

sluggo said:

Bearprof said:

Was anyone reminded of Ben Braun's offenses the last few games? Moving the ball around the perimeter with no penetration for long periods, and no plays to get anyone open. Did not see a lot of open shots, which can explain the poor production from Betley and Foreman. This was the norm with Braun teams, which is why Montgomery's teams were a breath of fresh air.

There should be contingency plans to run plays to get open looks when the motion offense is just not working.

Bradley gets a little space one on one because he is a drive threat.

Grant did have some open shots, but after inspired play against the so-Cal teams he has slumped badly.
No, I have been reminded of Ben Braun every game Fox has coached. The other team always gets easier shots.


We rank in the 300s in pace of play, just like Fox's teams at Georgia. Braun's teams were similar. On defense it is deny any shot until the defense breaks down and they get an easy shot and on offense it is pass it around to burn clock then let get it to your best player to play hero ball as the shot clock expires. Helped get guys like Gray, Lampley, Shipp, Powe and for Fox, KCP, and now Bradley score lots of points on underachieving teams. Not really fun basketball to watch or play in either. However, it is better at keeping the games "competitive" and minimizing the margin of losses with an occasional upset. Wyking Jones tried to push pace which is disastrous with an inferior team. So slow is better than that. The problem with playing slow ugly ball is players who have NBA aspirations will avoid you. You plateau at meh. Braun would annually announce we were going to push pace and probably told recruits that, but eventually coaches who play this way are known for playing this way and the "we are going to play fast" pronouncements are taken with a lot of skepticism.
Honestly, I don't think your examples are good ones. Lampley was by far the best scoring option on a young team. Gray and Powe scored a lot of points on teams that were otherwise very offensively challenged and Gray was an incredible scorer. Shipp actually played within a good offense with Wethers and Tamir, at least when those three and Midgley were on the floor together (given that absolutely no one else on that team could score a lick).

I'm not defending Braun's offense, which was bad. But those are not the years I would have changed things.

Also, for as much some here claim Braun was a great recruiter/poor coach, the great recruiter part I will never understand, for most of the years he had a defective roster where he could rarely put 5 on the floor that were even competent scorers. His offense was equally challenged by the fact that he rarely recruited enough weapons. A lot of the times he took the air out of the ball it was because he had 0-2 scorers on the floor and sat on it and played defense while the 1 or 2 other scorers were resting on the bench.


Yeah, Braun's issues were more numerous and complicated than my summary. For example, he often stockpiled frontline talent then went with undersized lineups, his final season being the most egregious example. However, the fact he gave so many minutes to non-scorers was part of the reason it seemed like he had to have a single scorer. And when he had great three point shooters like Omar Wilkes and Theo Robertson, he did nothing to get them shots.
bearister
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Is Fox going to donate $250,000 to Cal like Braun did?
Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Civil Bear
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bearister said:

Is Fox going to donate $250,000 to Cal like Braun did?
Maybe when he takes Cal to the Sweet 16 and Knowlton has to give him a big fat raise to keep him from bolting to UM.
calumnus
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Civil Bear said:

bearister said:

Is Fox going to donate $250,000 to Cal like Braun did?
Maybe when he takes Cal to the Sweet 16 and Knowlton has to give him a big fat raise to keep him from bolting to UM.


And Braun made about $900k at the end, even with inflation Fox is making a lot more.
helltopay1
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cal vs ASU...Eddie House is raining buckets the whole game...Cal needs just ONE stop and they win...here comes House downcourt.....Does braun double team??Nope...Triple team??Nope.. House scores on a three and ASU wins....Not ONE double team the entire game....three overtimes....not one double team..House scores 60 points...Game lasted 75 minutes...three overtimes....not one double team.....braun should have donated $250,000 He also should have volunteered to go to Rikers Island for not less than five years for that coaching malpractice....DOUBLE TEAM HOUSE!!!!! Nope!!!!
oskidunker
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And Fox never played zone even though Stanford time after time scored in the paint.
Go Bears!
bearister
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"House scores 60 points"

Eddie House scored 61 points. A scoring record is sacred and thus if it is going to be referenced, it must be done precisely.

Cancel my subscription to the Resurrection
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
Gobears49
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Great comments! I've been complaining that our offense looks like Braun's for weeks now on another side. Glad I have good company on that.
SFCityBear
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bearister said:

"House scores 60 points"

Eddie House scored 61 points. A scoring record is sacred and thus if it is going to be referenced, it must be done precisely.


The Soup Nazi lives!
SFCityBear
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