How many remember that Jorge was a "throw-in scholarship in the spring. monte had one scholarship left...Jorges' coach called and said, " you might want to take a chance on this guy---I think he can help." Monte paused while drinking his milkshake and said, "Ok." What do I think of Jorge????I would change my religion for that guy."

That scholarship became available because Garrett Sim decided he wanted to disengage from his scholarship at Cal due to the coaching change from Braun to Monty. Monty let him go and used the scholarship for Jorge.

Sim went to the Ducks, where he was a mediocre player. However, his switch from Cal apparently caused a curse upon the Ducks when they played Cal--the Ducks lost every single game for Sim's 4 years against the Bears, including in the P12 tournament. Good times.

One of our BI posters--Richard Lee--developed an obsessive hatred for Sim for switching teams--even though we got maybe my favorite player ever--Jorge--and the good side of the curse--out of the deal.

MSaviolives said:

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That scholarship became available because Garrett Sim decided he wanted to disengage from his scholarship at Cal due to the coaching change from Braun to Monty. Monty let him go and used the scholarship for Jorge.

Sim went to the Ducks, where he was a mediocre player. However, his switch from Cal apparently caused a curse upon the Ducks when they played Cal--the Ducks lost every single game for Sim's 4 years against the Bears, including in the P12 tournament. Good times.

One of our BI posters--Richard Lee--developed an obsessive hatred for Sim for switching teams--even though we got maybe my favorite player ever--Jorge--and the good side of the curse--out of the deal.

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That is awesome historical recall! Thank you for that. You do your moniker proud. Apparently JGutierrez (and GSim) also live! Love it.

MSaviolives said:

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That scholarship became available because Garrett Sim decided he wanted to disengage from his scholarship at Cal due to the coaching change from Braun to Monty. Monty let him go and used the scholarship for Jorge.

Sim went to the Ducks, where he was a mediocre player. However, his switch from Cal apparently caused a curse upon the Ducks when they played Cal--the Ducks lost every single game for Sim's 4 years against the Bears, including in the P12 tournament. Good times.

One of our BI posters--Richard Lee--developed an obsessive hatred for Sim for switching teams--even though we got maybe my favorite player ever--Jorge--and the good side of the curse--out of the deal.

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I think it was more than a curse upon the Ducks. It was Mike Montgomery. I don't think Monty ever lost to Altman, did he? I just looked it up. Monty was 12-0 against Oregon, 5-0 against Ernie Kent, and 7-0 against Dana Altman. During Jorge, and after Jorge.

He is also 14-0 against Roxy Bernstein.

with the title of this thread "Monte and Jorge" this photo popped in my head ...

What team is that?

HoopDreams said:

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with the title of this thread "Monte and Jorge" this photo popped in my head ...

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One title for this photo could be, "Coach and player on the same page."

oskidunker said:

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What team is that?

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Markuri says Kansas

NathanAllen said:

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Big C said:

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How many times have other teams just taken Cal's lunch money and laughed about it? Never with Jorge or Bradley.

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I don't know what you mean about taking "Cal's lunch money and laughed about it," but the first time I ever watched Jorge and a Monty team live was a 93-66 beat down of Cal in Columbia, Missouri at the beginning of the 2008-2009 season. The second time was Jorge's senior year and was a 92-53 beat down in Kansas City.

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Could be more my perception than anything else, but I mean opponents pushing us around, showboating, talking trash, etc. Going all Matt Barnes or Benny Boatwright on us. Or just the look in their eyes (seemingly) that, no problem, it's only Cal today. The Kansas game referenced by Hoop Dreams and KoreAm was an example of an opponent probably thinking like that early in the game, but CERTAINLY NOT by the end.

The Benny Boatwright game (showboating on our home court) might've been Bradley's freshman year, but when opponents face us and we have a known commodity like a Jorge or a non-freshman Bradley, well, they may still take our lunch money, but at least they don't laugh about it (at least not to our faces)!

drizzlybear said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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oskidunker said:

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What team is that?

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Markuri says Kansas

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That was my favorite non-winning game ever. I suppose the 1991 game v. UW would be it for football.

That KU team was loaded like usual with the Morris brothers and all sorts of lottery pick types in the lineup. But our humble team that lost some guys from the tournament team (we beat Louisville lost to Duke) the year before would not let Kansas come into our Haas and disrespect us. That's because of Jorge, and he basically challenged the entire KU team to a fight. MSF followed suit and it was on. The CMB played Asia's "Heat of the Moment" after one of the skirmishes. I felt so alive.

The referenced Louisville NCAA game the season prior.

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Love those highlights of the tournament win over Pitino. The Max sighting at the end (plus the Bear Territory chant) were icing on the cake. I loved that team so much. Yet another exhibit in the case of 4-year players over one-year players. I loved watching those players grow and develop, and those teams win.

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Amen, brother.

Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

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I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

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He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

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probably, but he took mostly quality/open shots because he had two other great shooters/scorers around him

PC and Randle might have had lower shooting percentages because they were taking more difficult, well defended shots

HoopDreams said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

probably, but he took mostly quality/open shots because he had two other great shooters/scorers around him

PC and Randle might have had lower shooting percentages because they were taking more difficult, well defended shots

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I'd agree with that. Still what was it Theo's junior year he was like 50% from 3 point land. That is amazing. Think about how many wide open threes we miss even as a decent 3 point shooting team. Dude was special right from the start.

NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

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Love seeing those names. I'd say Bradley is the best. If he got the open looks most of the other guys on that list (excepting Randle and Smith, two other favorites), he'd be above 50%. Bradley has the most consistent shot I think I've ever seen in a Cal uniform.

drizzlybear said:

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NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

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Love seeing those names. I'd say Bradley is the best. If he got the open looks most of the other guys on that list (excepting Randle and Smith, two other favorites), he'd be above 50%. Bradley has the most consistent shot I think I've ever seen in a Cal uniform.

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I would have expected to see Joe Shipp on this list. Maybe my memory is faulty.

NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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KoreAmBear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

---

It was an effort looking all that up. It is an interesting comparison, but not really valid because the three point line has moved twice over the period in which Smith, Dreher, Elleby, Wilkes, Forehan-Kelly and Midgely played to the line that Matt Bradley shoots behind today. The three point line was first established at 19.75 feet from the basket, and in 2008-2009, it was moved back a foot to 20.75 feet, and then in 2019-2020 it was moved back further to 22.15 feet in general and 21.75 feet in the corners. Bradley has to shoot his shots from at least 2.4 feet farther from the basket than Elleby, Dreher, Wilkes, et al to get credit for a three. And Bradley has to shoot threes at least 1.4 feet farther from the basket than Randle, Theo, Mullins and Mathews shot them. And Randle, Theo and Mullins, and Mathews had to shoot threes from at least a foot farther from the basket than Elleby, Dreher, Wilkes et all.. Not only that, but the shot in the corners is different, because with the three point line moved closer to the sideline, the shooter now has to pay a little more attention to where the sideline is so he has both feet in bounds when he shoots the shot.

Basketball courts are standardized to strict dimensions. Too bad this isn't baseball, where every ballpark has different dimensions and any ball hit over a fence is a home run, no matter how far the fence is from home plate.

SFCityBear said:

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NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

---

Not only that, but the shot in the corners is different, because with the three point line moved closer to the sideline, the shooter now has to pay a little more attention to where the sideline is so he has both feet in bounds when he shoots the shot.

---

I think you're right, but didn't actually know this.

that's a flaw on today's basketball courts ... that the width of the court doesn't allow for players to comfortably shoot a baseline 3. Seems like they almost have to tip toe to stay in bounds and take that shot

HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

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NathanAllen said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

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Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

---

Not only that, but the shot in the corners is different, because with the three point line moved closer to the sideline, the shooter now has to pay a little more attention to where the sideline is so he has both feet in bounds when he shoots the shot.

---

I think you're right, but didn't actually know this.

that's a flaw on today's basketball courts ... that the width of the court doesn't allow for players to comfortably shoot a baseline 3. Seems like they almost have to tip toe to stay in bounds and take that shot

---

Theo, Mathews and O.Wilkes lived off that baseline three. They had their spot and were money from it. Theo could also pump fake and then drive baseline. That is smart play from guys who were not going to be NBA players. The key was other players getting them the ball since they are more catch and shoot.

Guys like Randle and Bradley shoot from anywhere, Randle literally, and can create their own shot/ shoot off the dribble so I give them more credit as shooters.

KoreAmBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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oskidunker said:

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What team is that?

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Markuri says Kansas

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That was my favorite non-winning game ever. I suppose the 1991 game v. UW would be it for football.

That KU team was loaded like usual with the Morris brothers and all sorts of lottery pick types in the lineup. But our humble team that lost some guys from the tournament team (we beat Louisville lost to Duke) the year before would not let Kansas come into our Haas and disrespect us. That's because of Jorge, and he basically challenged the entire KU team to a fight. MSF followed suit and it was on. The CMB played Asia's "Heat of the Moment" after one of the skirmishes. I felt so alive.

The referenced Louisville NCAA game the season prior.

---

God I loved that team.

HoopDreams said:

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SFCityBear said:

---

NathanAllen said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Just looking back at some of those great moments tells me how far the program has tumbled since Monty retired.

---

I was also impressed how good of a shooter PC was.

---

He could be streaky, but yes, definitely a quality shooter. Monty always seemed to have several good shooters as options.

---

Theo was probably the most accurate/efficient 3 point since I've been following Cal hoops (since my freshman year 1988). Do the stats back me up?

---

It depends on how you define it. On a season-basis, you're forgetting Billy Dreher in 1991. According to Cal's record book, here are the top-10 season 3P% with at least 50 attempts in the season.

Billy Dreher - 50.0% (1991)
Theo Robertson - 48.7% (2009)
Matt Bradley - 47.2% (2019)
Bill Elleby - 46.4% (1992)
Jerome Randle - 46.2% (2009)
Keith Smith - 46.2% (1990)
Theo Robertson - 45.3% (2010)
Omar Wilkes - 45.3% (2006)
Ryan Forehan-Kelly - 45.3% (2000)
Richard Midgley - 44.9% (2003)

That Randle/Robertson combo in 2008-2009 was fire.

But if you're going for the total career, yes, the stats back you up and Theo was the most efficient three-point shooter of all-time.

Theo Robertson (2006-2010) - 44.0%
Billy Dreher (1991-1992) - 43.1%
Grant Mullins (2017) - 43.0%
Matt Bradley (2019-present) - 41.7%
Jordan Matthews (2014-2016) - 41.7%
Keith Smith (1987-1990) - 41.3%
Bill Elleby (1989-1992) - 41.0%
Ryan Forehan-Kelly (1999-2002) - 40.7%
Jerome Randle (2007-2010) - 40.5%
Omar Wilkes (2006-2007) - 40.4%

---

Not only that, but the shot in the corners is different, because with the three point line moved closer to the sideline, the shooter now has to pay a little more attention to where the sideline is so he has both feet in bounds when he shoots the shot.

---

I think you're right, but didn't actually know this.

that's a flaw on today's basketball courts ... that the width of the court doesn't allow for players to comfortably shoot a baseline 3. Seems like they almost have to tip toe to stay in bounds and take that shot

---

I disagree that it is a flaw. The baseline 3 is the shortest distance shot for which 3 points are awarded. The easier distance should be offset by something more difficult, and it is, the narrow space between the 3 point line and the sideline.

socaltownie said:

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KoreAmBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

---

oskidunker said:

---

What team is that?

---

Markuri says Kansas

---

That was my favorite non-winning game ever. I suppose the 1991 game v. UW would be it for football.

That KU team was loaded like usual with the Morris brothers and all sorts of lottery pick types in the lineup. But our humble team that lost some guys from the tournament team (we beat Louisville lost to Duke) the year before would not let Kansas come into our Haas and disrespect us. That's because of Jorge, and he basically challenged the entire KU team to a fight. MSF followed suit and it was on. The CMB played Asia's "Heat of the Moment" after one of the skirmishes. I felt so alive.

The referenced Louisville NCAA game the season prior.

---

God I loved that team.

---

I remember running into MSF at a Pac-10 MBB tournament at the Staples Center one year. Unfortunately, he and Cal had just lost a game. He was (understandably) upset. I felt bad for him but didn't really get a chance to say anything as he walked by. (I do remember thinking he was a really big dude, though!) He was easily one of my favorite Cal players from that era. I loved the passion with which he played the game.!

I would have thought that Randy Duck's name would be on one of those lists.

I think Randle might have been the best on that list, purely because his MO, when the defense moved out on him, was simply to step back another foot and fire away. He had amazing range for a guy that was not very big.